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spiralizer
10-17-2012, 08:05 PM
Hey everyone, I'm relatively new to the high-end poster world and have seen lots of back and forth about framing. After buying some of these things, I dont have a ton of money left for custom framing.

Just how important is a quality frame for high-end prints? Is a cheap frame going to damage them? Please help!

FROBAY
10-17-2012, 09:52 PM
I think a cheap frame is better than no frame. A print behind glass is better than a print in a tube, I wouldn't want to leave a print in a tube for years as I think it will age/yellow sooner than if it was behind glass.

I recommend getting a portfolio to store your prints flat and a frame that let's you front load your poster, this way you won't go broke trying to frame all your prints, just switch your posters in and out of the same frame.

demonhunter
10-17-2012, 10:32 PM
http://www.frametek.com/images/general/article/pastel/Pastel_Fig4a.gif

If you live in a wet and humid place like me, I think it's better to get the spacers for your frames.

So that the posters, pictures or art does not touch the glass and a bit of room for air. Or else mold may grow.

Luminous
10-18-2012, 01:29 AM
Hey everyone, I'm relatively new to the high-end poster world and have seen lots of back and forth about framing. After buying some of these things, I dont have a ton of money left for custom framing.

Just how important is a quality frame for high-end prints? Is a cheap frame going to damage them? Please help!

The most important thing is that these prints do not touch the glass. Because Mondo prints are printed using a silk screening process, the colors found on the prints are that of real paint. The danger is that over time the paint on the prints may adhere to the glass. If that happens and the print moves (paper can expand in the frame without being touched by someones hand), and the paint will come off of that portion of the print. This is also more common when metallic paints can be found on the print.

You can prevent the print from touching the glass by either using spacers or mats. Using mats is going to be more expensive, because it will cause the glass and the frame to get larger, driving the overall price higher. Spacers are a good alternative for those on a budget. However, depending on your location, the type of paper used on the print, and the climate of your home, the spacers might not be enough to prevent your print from bowing at the center. Which essentially means the print will touch the glass if that happens.

The other important thing to remember is that everything should be acid free. If you use mats, they need to be acid free. The same goes for the foamcore (the backing for the frame). If you decide to just use spacers, you need to at least change out the backing to acid free foamcore.

One last thing to note is that DRYMOUNTING should be avoided at all costs. If you decide to take your prints to a framer, do not let them convince you to drymount your print. The only things that should be used by your framer is either acid free Linen Hinges or Framers Tape II, acid free ATG (should only be used when doing multiple mats), acid free foamcore and acid free mats. ACID FREE! :vortex:

Sorry, can't tell you how dumb and cheap some framers can get. Anyway, I hope this was helpful information. If you want more information on art framing or you'd like to see some great examples, visit expressobeans.com.

Side note: While everything I have just mentioned is what I have learned in the past year or so, I did see a comment recently that may help those on a budget even further. Someone who is recognized as being very knowledgeable in framing recently posted this:

"is it glass? or acrylic?


if its glass put spacers in and change the backing to acid free foamcore. done

if its acrylic dont worry about the spacers, put in acid free foamcore backing. done"

That second part goes against what I've learned about framing these prints, but it could just be most of the people I've spoken to mainly use glass. Acrylic may be safe enough to just leave alone and just make sure you replace the backing with acid free foamcore. However, considering how rare my prints are and some of the prices I've had to pay I'm not sure I'd chance it if it were me.

spiralizer
10-18-2012, 08:32 AM
Thank you all so much for your input...very helpful. One question: Can I get acid free foamcore at a place like Micheals or Hobby Lobby? Thanks again!

For the record, I'm framing a Mondo BTTF Englert, Tom Whalen Decepticons, and Godmachine Twin Peaks.

Matches Malone
10-18-2012, 08:57 AM
I think a cheap frame is better than no frame. A print behind glass is better than a print in a tube, I wouldn't want to leave a print in a tube for years as I think it will age/yellow sooner than if it was behind glass.

I recommend getting a portfolio to store your prints flat and a frame that let's you front load your poster, this way you won't go broke trying to frame all your prints, just switch your posters in and out of the same frame.

I couldn't agree more. The best way to preserve and enjoy your prints at the same time is to rotate them in and out of display.

I went to a local art supply store and bought huge cardboard art portfolio's that I line with kraft and use as pseudo flatfiles. They work awesome and are a cheap alternative to the portfolio's if you are not looking to view your stored art.

spiralizer
10-18-2012, 09:34 AM
I have access to cheap frames with acrylic...so my plan, at least for now, is to use them but replace the backing with acid free foamcore or maybe the paper that comes rolled inside the print. I will probably grab a portfolio as well for future prints.

I know this is the cheap way out but after dropping what I had to get some of these prints, it seems like my only option. It's such a waste to buy high quality prints and leave them in a tube.

So again, thanks for all the advice and I will probably move on to nice glass frames with spacers around tax time. For now, I will be cheap, yet mindful.

FROBAY
10-18-2012, 10:00 AM
I have access to cheap frames with acrylic...so my plan, at least for now, is to use them but replace the backing with acid free foamcore or maybe the paper that comes rolled inside the print. I will probably grab a portfolio as well for future prints.

I know this is the cheap way out but after dropping what I had to get some of these prints, it seems like my only option. It's such a waste to buy high quality prints and leave them in a tube.

So again, thanks for all the advice and I will probably move on to nice glass frames with spacers around tax time. For now, I will be cheap, yet mindful.

I think thats a good choice. Save the expensive frame ups for the art you consider treasures. the fact is alot of these 50.00 posters arent worth worth a 2-300.00 frame job.

Luminous
10-18-2012, 08:42 PM
I think thats a good choice. Save the expensive frame ups for the art you consider treasures. the fact is alot of these 50.00 posters arent worth worth a 2-300.00 frame job.

I have to ask then, why bother purchasing the prints that aren't worthy of a good frame?

bloodrain
10-24-2012, 11:59 AM
I recently bought my first prints (Randy Ortiz Goonies and an Anthony Petrie Predator) and bought some large premade frames from Hobby Lobby. Are there any issues with these frames I should be concerned about? The backing appears to be just a cardboard cutout and im guessing it's acrylic not glass.

I never even noticed they dont have any type of hangers or wire so ill have to go find something. :rolleyes2

Luminous
10-24-2012, 12:29 PM
I recently bought my first prints (Randy Ortiz Goonies and an Anthony Petrie Predator) and bought some large premade frames from Hobby Lobby. Are there any issues with these frames I should be concerned about? The backing appears to be just a cardboard cutout and im guessing it's acrylic not glass.

I never even noticed they dont have any type of hangers or wire so ill have to go find something. :rolleyes2

Just swap out the backing with acid free foam core. Hobby Lobby should have that available. I would also look into spacers and see if they fit in those frames you purchased. If it's acrylic, you may not have to worry about keeping the print off the window. I would do more research into that though.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 02:27 PM
Does michaels have acid free foam core? I've never even heard of it until now. How does the cardboard on the back effect the print if it's not touching the side with the print? I know most prints come with a piece a paper inside, couldn't you just put that between the cardboard and print and be ok?

Luminous
10-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Does michaels have acid free foam core? I've never even heard of it until now. How does the cardboard on the back effect the print if it's not touching the side with the print? I know most prints come with a piece a paper inside, couldn't you just put that between the cardboard and print and be ok?

When I say backing, I mean the board that is touching the print. Most custom frames do not have a backing that the wall hangers are placed on. It's usually just kraft paper that seals everything inside, and the wall hangers are placed on the frame itself.

What you suggested is actually a decent option for those on a budget. I have some regular posters in my office that are in cheap 24x36 frames I found at Target and Michaels. Since the backing on those is certainly acidic, I just bought some acid free sheets of 24x36 paper and placed them in between the posters and the backing.

EDIT: I just realized you may have been asking how the backing affects the print if it isn't touching the side with the art? Was that your question?

azurepred
10-24-2012, 05:40 PM
When I say backing, I mean the board that is touching the print. Most custom frames do not have a backing that the wall hangers are placed on. It's usually just kraft paper that seals the everything inside, and the wall hangers are placed on the frame itself.

What you suggested is actually a decent option for those on a budget. I have some regular posters in my office that are in cheap 24x36 frames I found at Target and Michaels. Since the backing on those is certainly acidic, I just bought some acid free sheets of 24x36 paper and placed them in between the posters and the backing.

ok, so if there is no board for the frame, you don't need the foam core? Yea, all the Michaels frames come with a piece of paper inside, so I always just put it behind the prints instead of throwing them out. I don't think I have anything I feel is worth getting a $300 frame to me, but I would spend about the $150 it would cost to do a nice 18x24.

Luminous
10-24-2012, 06:05 PM
http://highdesertartandframe.com/uploads/images/Diagram%281%29.jpg

The backing I am referring to is the "backmat" in that diagram, and that is the part that needs to be acid free. The print will be between either the glazing (hopefully with spacers) and the backing, or a window matte and the backing. The "back board" in that diagram doesn't ever touch the print. However, a lot of custom framing doesn't even have that "back board". The back board just seals everything inside. It's either the back board or kraft paper that is taped around the edges of the frame.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 06:13 PM
I have 3 custom framed prints. The one from Michaels actually has some sort of backboard,the others have the kraft paper, don't know about any back mats. Actually, I don't believe I've ever seen a frame with a backmat. Even the standard Michaels frames just have the backboard and I put the piece of paper between the print and backboard. So whats the purpose of a backmat then?

Luminous
10-24-2012, 06:22 PM
Whatever is touching the print on that side, be it a backmat or the backing, is there for support, rigidity, and conservation. Much like that diagram, the print is often mounted to the backmat. That's where some framers will apply tape to hold the print up.

The ones you had done at Michael's should have something leaning on the print. Whether it's that visible backboard or a backmat, I hope it's acid free.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 06:27 PM
oh ok, well I don't want to take them apart to find out. Next time I get a frame done there, I will ask more about the process. Do you think I'm ok with just having a piece of paper between the backboard and print? For my expensive prints, you think I should get spacers from now on?

spiralizer
10-24-2012, 06:37 PM
I just framed up a few prints in cheap frames and used the Kraft paper that is rolled with the print inside its shipping tube as my 'barrier' between the cardboard frame backing and the print. I feel pretty good about that. Surely the paper rolled inside a print during shipping would be acid free, yes?

Luminous
10-24-2012, 06:44 PM
oh ok, well I don't want to take them apart to find out. Next time I get a frame done there, I will ask more about the process. Do you think I'm ok with just having a piece of paper between the backboard and print? For my expensive prints, you think I should get spacers from now on?

This isn't my print, but someone else posted this on the EB forum. They had someone else frame this print, and it rested up against the glazing. When the print moves it can potentially lift the paint off of the print. There are a lot of factors, but climate is one of them.

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz156/Luminous9/Haring1.jpg

I highly recommend you do your research if you care about your prints. Especially if you're dropping good money for them. There are a lot of different ways to frame your art work. It's up to you to decide what the best way is for you.

Luminous
10-24-2012, 06:50 PM
I just framed up a few prints in cheap frames and used the Kraft paper that is rolled with the print inside its shipping tube as my 'barrier' between the cardboard frame backing and the print. I feel pretty good about that. Surely the paper rolled inside a print during shipping would be acid free, yes?

Unfortunately no. There is a lot of kraft paper that isn't acid free, and is generally not considered to be archival.

You want acid free tissue or acid free glassine paper.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't think I'm worried about the ones I have framed now cause they have matting, but for future mondo prints, I already know I will get standard frames for them, so I will prolly just keep doing what I've been doing and just add spacers to those ones.

Luminous
10-24-2012, 06:53 PM
Sounds good. Just make sure you know what the positives and negatives are for using spacers. I haven't used spacers, but I hear they can potentially pinch your art work. I believe this mainly happens if not installed properly.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 07:09 PM
I guess I'll ask the framers about them next time I go in.

Luminous
10-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Are you still using Michaels?

azurepred
10-24-2012, 07:47 PM
yep yep

Luminous
10-24-2012, 08:24 PM
yep yep

You might want to look through this thread. While the prices are something to take note of, you should pay attention to some of the stories in there.

http://forum.expressobeans.com/viewtopic.php?t=59173&f=31

Just looking out.

azurepred
10-24-2012, 09:43 PM
Good looking out. I've only had one custom frame through them, and I didn't shop around, so I wasn't sure how good the price was or not. I guess I'll look around next time, but I think they are still great for standard prints cause they have sales on their frames often. I don't think I ever knew mom and pop framers even existed still ha.

Luminous
10-24-2012, 10:07 PM
No problem. Definitely take your time looking for a framer. I only recently found an awesome local framer. The guy is very helpful and will do everything to your specifications. He even let me watch his process because he knew I didn't have a great experience with my last framer. That built trust, and now he is doing all of my framing.

azurepred
11-03-2012, 09:56 PM
How do you guys feel about matting? I was thinking about it. I have a few of my smallish ones matted, but if I ever sale any of the larger ones, it would have to be sold in a frame and that would be a pain. I know it makes a huge difference in the display, but a really nice frame by itself could look beautiful too. If one had to sell a framed piece, they would prolly lose a lot of value on just the frame job.

Matches Malone
11-04-2012, 09:40 AM
How do you guys feel about matting? I was thinking about it. I have a few of my smallish ones matted, but if I ever sale any of the larger ones, it would have to be sold in a frame and that would be a pain. I know it makes a huge difference in the display, but a really nice frame by itself could look beautiful too. If one had to sell a framed piece, they would prolly lose a lot of value on just the frame job.

I am not a huge "matte" guy on larger pieces for that same reason; the increased size of the piece and wall space required for them.

azurepred
11-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Yea, Im going to have 2 mondo posters framed once I get them, and even though they are expensive pieces, a frame job would cost more then I payed for the piece and if I had to sell, I would lose a lot of that money on the frame job. I'm hoping a nice frame by itself won't be crazy expensive, will have to see.

Atheris
11-04-2012, 02:33 PM
Personally, I go all out to frame my pieces properly to protect them.
My latest mondo Hulk print cost around $600 to get framed. UV protective/anti-reflective glass, acid free foam backing, nice matt and of course a really nice frame.

Picking it up in a week or two, but here it is. Also hava a mondo Dredd 3D out getting framed.

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/mondo-hulk-avengers-poster.jpg

Chris

Luminous
11-04-2012, 04:06 PM
Paying $600 for a frame is still insane even by my standards. I don't see how all of those components could possibly add up to that much.

azurepred
11-04-2012, 04:29 PM
F that. I'd prolly go $200 tops on a frame job alone. Us normal folks have to think about possibly selling most of our collections down the road. That frame might be worth half that much, if that, if you were to sell that piece. Of course, the print would go with it.

zeus
11-04-2012, 08:33 PM
and what if i want to frame a 50$ poster will i pay up to 600$ to frame...never!

Atheris
11-04-2012, 11:02 PM
Part of it comes from the size of the frame and glass. I'm having a really thick matt boarder the print. Price go's up about $200 just for the extra surface real estate. Plus the type of frame I chose wasn't cheap ether.

In most cases the frame job always costs more than the print. I don't see why anyone would want to ruin a limited edition high end print by putting it in a cheap $30 frame.

Plus, I don't intend on selling these art prints any time soon.

Chris

azurepred
11-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Well, we aren't saying a $30 frame is best, but that's way too much unless you have like a million dollar piece of art going in it. You say you don't intend to sale soon, but when the day comes, your going to have to include the frame and your gonna lose a large percent of the frame value. I see it all the time with framed jerseys. You can still buy a really nice frame and be able to remove the print if you want to sell it or just rotate something else in. You obviously have the cheese, I'm just saying frames depreciate big time, they don't add to the financial value of a piece.

Luminous
11-04-2012, 11:56 PM
Part of it comes from the size of the frame and glass. I'm having a really thick matt boarder the print. Price go's up about $200 just for the extra surface real estate. Plus the type of frame I chose wasn't cheap ether.

In most cases the frame job always costs more than the print. I don't see why anyone would want to ruin a limited edition high end print by putting it in a cheap $30 frame.

Plus, I don't intend on selling these art prints any time soon.

Chris

What is the total dimensions for the frame? I have 28 x 40 (glass surface area) frames with UV filtered glass and I have yet to exceed $350 for a frame. I realize museum bumps up the price and so do particular frames, but I never thought the overall price would reach anywhere near $600.

Well, we aren't saying a $30 frame is best, but that's way too much unless you have like a million dollar piece of art going in it. You say you don't intend to sale soon, but when the day comes, your going to have to include the frame and your gonna lose a large percent of the frame value. I see it all the time with framed jerseys. You can still buy a really nice frame and be able to remove the print if you want to sell it or just rotate something else in. You obviously have the cheese, I'm just saying frames depreciate big time, they don't add to the financial value of a piece.

You don't have to include the frame in your sale. Depending on how the print has been mounted, prints are relatively easy to remove from their frames.

That said, like Chris has already stated, if they're going to be framed I have no intention of reselling them. I only purchase the prints I plan on framing, and once they're framed I have no intention of parting with them. I realize things happen, and in an emergency I feel comfortable knowing I can still remove the print from the frame.

azurepred
11-05-2012, 02:14 PM
If its matted, then Kraft paper is going to be glued to the back, so I guess if you want to rip that apart and sell the print glued to the matte, you could, but I don't know how that would effect the value, so your only other choice is to sell it with the frame.

Luminous
11-05-2012, 02:28 PM
If its matted, then Kraft paper is going to be glued to the back, so I guess if you want to rip that apart and sell the print glued to the matte, you could, but I don't know how that would effect the value, so your only other choice is to sell it with the frame.

Yes the kraft paper sealing everything inside is glued (I use ATG tape instead of glue) to the frame, but why oh why would the print be glued to the mat? Your prints should NEVER be glued to ANYTHING. Mine are mounted onto the bottom mat with Framers Tape II. With a small amount of heat, the tape can be removed without damaging the print or the mat. If that's done correctly, I will have a loose print I can resell and a perfectly good frame setup that can be reused.

pavehawk78
11-05-2012, 02:47 PM
Yes the kraft paper sealing everything inside is glued (I use ATG tape instead of glue) to the frame, but why oh why would the print be glued to the mat? Your prints should NEVER be glued to ANYTHING. Mine are mounted onto the bottom mat with Framers Tape II. With a small amount of heat, the tape can be removed without damaging the print or the mat. If that's done correctly, I will have a loose print I can resell and a perfectly good frame setup that can be reused.

Good post Luminous!

For some reason this is called "dry mounting" in framer talk and you never ever want your art dry mounted.

azurepred
11-05-2012, 03:20 PM
oh, I didn't know what drymounting was. I know at least one of my framed pieces is drymounted then, I didn't even ask for it. I had no clue that prints could be removed from the matting.

biglebowski9999
11-06-2012, 11:07 PM
My latest mondo Hulk print cost around $600 to get framed.

Chris


This is probably one of those things that is better to keep to yourself.

:confused2

zeus
11-14-2012, 09:07 PM
what does everyone prefer framed with mat or not? i saw pictures of framed stuff and can't decide if i want mat added!

zommah
12-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Mat makes a huge difference in most cases (other than large paintings) -- lots more you can do creatively too, I use it 9/10 times when applicable.

Luminous
12-10-2012, 02:31 AM
what does everyone prefer framed with mat or not? i saw pictures of framed stuff and can't decide if i want mat added!

I used to think I preferred my prints without mats. Now I can't imagine not having a nice mat to compliment the art.

biglebowski9999
12-10-2012, 09:36 AM
Does anyone cut their own mats? I have access to a cutter but I didn't know if they end up not looking as professional.

Luminous
12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
I've never seen anyone cut their own mat with a personal mat cutter, so I have no idea how they turn out. It seems people are always doing their own custom framing on the EB forum, and I've never noticed anything wrong with those mats.

testsubject25
12-10-2012, 02:35 PM
what does everyone prefer framed with mat or not? i saw pictures of framed stuff and can't decide if i want mat added!

I think this it's Luminous, but that Akira framing is just balls out sweet.

azurepred
12-10-2012, 04:23 PM
for you guys that have your matted, how much does the matting end up running alone?

Luminous
12-10-2012, 04:28 PM
for you guys that have your matted, how much does the matting end up running alone?

There are a lot of different mats (I don't mean just colors) being made by different companies. I've seen a single mat made to cover a 24 x 36 print, range anywhere from $40 to $90. So if you go with multiple mats of the high range variety, it can obviously add up.

A framer may charge you a flat fee for the mat regardless of your picture and frame size. They may not have it in stock and would have to order from their supplier, which charges a flat rate.

built2shred
09-23-2013, 10:07 PM
What do you guys think of this place? You can get a 13x19 frame for around $30, includes UV filtered plexiglass and 100% acid free backing board

https://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/


After reading through their FAQ, it sounds like they know what they're doing....

http://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=faq

I ended up getting two for the posters I have:
Size: 13x19 - Style : genuine 1/8" thick Non-glare UV filtered plexiglass - Color : Satin Black - Hang Direction : Vertical - Backing : 3/16" thick white foamcore backing

total cost including shipping and tax was $99

The person emailed me to verify the order as she custom cuts each order, so if you have a custom size they can easily do it.