US Production

[Python]

Hi guys, I was thinking about this earlier and wondered if I was way off the mark and how others felt. With production costs rising in China more and more, are we reaching a point where production could possibly be moved to the USA? The reason I thought about this is that I enjoy building the odd model kit. In 2012, Humbrol who own Airfix moved a large percentage of production back to the United Kingdom from China and I believe they are wanting to move the remainder also. Clearly they thought it was financially viable to do so as they are a huge company that sells products world wide.

The reasons they did this, to ensure supply and high quality is surely the same reason Sideshow might consider this if and when it is financially possible. It is no secret that the main complaint about SS pieces is that often the production pieces are a fair way off the beautiful prototypes we see. And with recent blunders such as the sideways fist clench on the Vader mythos and the upside down Ark reactor on the MK VI lsb it must be costing Sideshow a fortune in cancelled orders and discounts, as must the shipping of items all the way around the world. Are we anywhere near the point those shipping costs could be put towards the higher wages American workers demand and still maintain the profit a business obviously needs to make?

The benefits are clear, Sideshow would know exactly which materials are being used, ensuring the best quality products possible. Delays could be minimised and mistakes could be found and dealt with before they become a real problem as Sideshow themselves would have much easier access to view all stages of production. And the biggest benefit of all, we could have a sideshow rep personally inspect every item before it is boxed up to make sure it deserves that little yellow sticker. SS have some incredibly talented people in the ranks, having them a bit closer to the production pieces could only be a good thing.

And finally, if this were possible, how would people feel about it? Would you have more confidence in the product you are waiting to receive? would you be more inclined to buy an item even knowing it is US made or does it not matter to you? I'm not suggesting production in China is a bad thing, just that maybe SS can't observe and direct proceedings as much as they may like to or as easily as they could closer to home which has led to a few boo boos down the line. If Humbrol managed to do it, maybe others could follow suit?

Discuss ;)

[Kicksplode]

It's an issue a lot of companies have had to grapple with now that China's economy has grown so massive. And while they'd have to pay domestic factory workers higher wages, I imagine Sideshow would save a huge amount of money not having to import thousands of oversized statues from halfway across the world.

Realistically, we'd probably see production shift to Korea or Mexico before America, but you never know. I think if Attakus can pull off manufacturing their product in France, some of these other companies should consider it as well. Attakus' Star Wars products may not be the best in terms of likeness, but as far as paint quality and overall consistency, they put Sideshow to shame. That's the benefit of doing everything in-house and having employees who care about the craft handling everything, rather than random factory drones slaving away for a low wage.

[Matches Malone]

The other consideration is what is the current manufacturing capacity in North America after years and years of outsourcing to the likes of China and India. It could cost Sideshow, or another company, a pretty penny to even set up production.

[jaguargod]

I would definitely give U.S. operations the benefit of the doubt. I would assume that they could deliver a better product until they proved otherwise. I think that the executives at SS could also feel a little better about themselves as human beings for not employing what amounts to slave labor. I'm not sure that applies to wages so much, but definitely the working conditions.

After so many years of this level of QC, one of two things is obvious. Either a majority of the Chinese factory work force takes very little pride in their workmanship, or the factory management has zero ability to find and retain qualified employees. I have definitely seen some good quality items come out of SS recently, but it is very hit and miss. And I really don't care too much about the hits because they are all items from lines that don't interest me. It seems that my favorite character, Predator, who is also the most complex of any character line that SS produces, consistently gets contracted out to the factories that are least able to produce them properly.

Whether SS produces their statues in foreign or domestic locations, it all boils down to how involved they remain in every aspect of the production, and how willing they are to hold the producers accountable for their work. As a supervisor myself, if I have a problem with an employee, I make the employee aware of the problem. If that doesn't change the behavior, I put the employee on a performance improvement plan, and if that doesn't work, I terminate the employee and look for a better replacement. This is the part of the evaluation process that SS does not appear to follow through on.

[built2shred]

Well I have seen more items I buy with the "Built in USA" on the bottom of them, seems its slowly swinging back... I think with QC issues and a reputation that Made in China = Crap, business are starting to rethink their manufacturing...

[Python]

The other consideration is what is the current manufacturing capacity in North America after years and years of outsourcing to the likes of China and India. It could cost Sideshow, or another company, a pretty penny to even set up production.

I think this is probably the main barrier actually. It would of course be innitially time consuming and possibly expensive but surely it would be worth it once all is said and done.

"Product Manager for Humbrol, Dale Luckhurst said; “It’s been a busy 18 months relocating products back to the UK especially our largest range - enamel paints. Our entire colour range has been reformulated and colour matched back to original Humbrol standards.”

Humbrol presumably thought it was worth the busy 18 months to relocate and now have full control over production, he is essentially saying there there product had been of a lesser quality since moving production to China which they have now fixed. As a customer myself, there products are also notably better in quality recently. So while difficult, it might not be a deal breaker. It will just require a brave decision from the big boss and a bit of commitment I guess.

[hideousboi]

four letter make this idea impossible OSHA.

[dakkonmc]

I think the problem is sideshow and not China. A lot of high end luxury brand has moved some of their manufacturing to china such as LV and BMW and they don't seem to have a lot of quality control issues with their manufacturing.

The reality is... Sideshow needs to take more responsibility. Even in the high end luxury brand. There are companies that has many issues with poor build quality and bad customer service

[PermaGrin]

I would gladly pay more for better quality on home turf.

I started looking for US based ones, but came up with nothing but basically customs.

[El Diablo]

I think the problem is sideshow and not China. A lot of high end luxury brand has moved some of their manufacturing to china such as LV and BMW and they don't seem to have a lot of quality control issues with their manufacturing.

The reality is... Sideshow needs to take more responsibility. Even in the high end luxury brand. There are companies that has many issues with poor build quality and bad customer service

:iagree:

moving production to the US (or anywhere else for that matter) wouldn't automatically mean higher standards, they may even drop. The only thing it would allow is for SS to more easily check on production, but with how easy it is to travel globally nowadays even that advantage is doubtful.
Like dakkonmc says the poor standard in finish is solely on sideshows shoulders. They should have someone out their on a permanent basis checking on production.

[CommanderZx2]

I would gladly pay more for better quality on home turf.

I started looking for US based ones, but came up with nothing but basically customs.

How much more? What if everything cost 30-50% more?

[wanderlai]

four letter make this idea impossible OSHA.

Do tell. What's unsafe about producing statues?

[jaguargod]

Sideshow is 100% responsible for allowing their QC problems to develop, but make no mistake - they are not responsible for allowing them to persist.

[dakkonmc]

Sideshow is 100% responsible for allowing their QC problems to develop, but make no mistake - they are not responsible for allowing them to persist.

Agreed. People need to stop buying some of product to force them to improve. But the reality is.... We just keep on buying them regardless of their issues. Take Ferrari as an example when you buy one of their car. You expect the plastic will get sticky, leather will be warped, and clutches will only last 7-20,000 miles.

[Bullseye]

Made in US doesn't guarantee quality. They would probably employ immigrants anyway as there is no way Americans would work for what would be on offered unless prices of statues double or quadrupole.

[DynamicMenace]

i have been saying this all along.
i would love to see SS bring the statue production to the sates. QC could be over seen, and improved dramatically. could be so that the production pieces would actually look more like the prototypes than what they do now. although things have been fairly decent. jobs would be created and it could carry the "Made in the USA" label. that use to mean something. and to a lot of people specially here in America it still does.

[DynamicMenace]

Made in US doesn't guarantee quality. They would probably employ immigrants anyway as there is no way Americans would work for what would be on offered unless prices of statues double or quadrupole.

good point..:laugh:

[DynamicMenace]

the only way there is higher standards is if the company at hand assures that there are higher standards and things are done a certain way to maintain those standards. instead of "quality control" there needs to be "quality assurance". if there is quality assurance then the product would meet those high standards.

i for one would be willing to pay more if i knew that i would be receiving high end quality such of the likes of the prototypes that are shown and advertised.

but getting the many production pieces to be as of the same quality as the prototypes would be a great task to accomplish and more than likely merely impossible on such a grand scale.

but this is why was pushing for SS to offer their products as kits as well so that the customer could get their piece to be as of the same quality as the prototypes.

[mrslick32]

I don't think that "made in China" is the reason for the poor quality. I always believe that you get what you pay for. I've seen products that are made in China that are of high quality so I know what they are capable of doing. To use an example in the pop culture statue world, Gentle Giant's Sucker Punch line is also made in China. However, the paint job is incredible considering the amount of detail on the statues.

I think the issue is that Sideshow wants to cut costs and so the QC suffers. I'll make up some numbers to illustrate my point. If you hire a factory worker and give him only 10 hours to work on a statue as opposed to 20 hours to work on the same statue, how different will you expect the quality to be? When you have more time to work on something, you'll feel less rushed and have more time to do quality control inspections and fine tune the small details.

In general, workers in the US still get paid more than workers in China so I doubt if Sideshow will move its production to the US. If Sideshow's primary goal is to improve the quality of its products, it can be done with factories in China if Sideshow is willing to pay more. If cost is the issue, then why move the production to a country with higher labor costs?

That's just my 2 cents.

[Sithlord32]

:iagree:

moving production to the US (or anywhere else for that matter) wouldn't automatically mean higher standards, they may even drop. The only thing it would allow is for SS to more easily check on production, but with how easy it is to travel globally nowadays even that advantage is doubtful.
Like dakkonmc says the poor standard in finish is solely on sideshows shoulders. They should have someone out their on a permanent basis checking on production.

This is the bottom line I agree. No matter what Sideshow is the only ones to point fingers at for their product. If they are not doing what needs to be done well then I would see a possible further decrease in quality until it hurts profits then something will be done about it.
Its very clear that the artwork and craftsmanship in the pieces is a of a low percentile when compared to other interests the company needs to or wants to maintain.
Its not as though the artists behind the company do not strive for what we all crave they just have very little say in the matter. Its big business. My $.25

[Vracula]

They should have someone out their on a permanent basis checking on production.

THIS!They need a man on the ground to provide QC and QA.

[PermaGrin]

How much more? What if everything cost 30-50% more?

Then my standards on what is passable in my eyes would have to at least go up 30-50%.

[jedi_don]

With Federal taxes, State taxes, unions and Obamacare, what's the incentive to start up a factory in the US? With the minimum wage for burger flippers on the rise, what's the cost of skilled laborer?

If it wasn't for all the crime and corruption in Mexico, it would probably would be the ideal place for a North American factory.

The only other consideration is splitting production. Have the Chinese factory do all the casting, grinding and sanding and sending the completed parts to the US for final assembly and paint. But there is the added costs of the parts being packed twice (between factories and final retail).

It is rather amazing to think about all the transportation costs from China to the US and having it still cheaper to make it in China.

[Python]

It is rather amazing to think about all the transportation costs from China to the US and having it still cheaper to make it in China.

Precisely, I don't know if is the same for you guys but shipping costs in the UK have sky rocketed over the last year or two. I dread to think how much SS pays shipping every single production piece to California before then shipping them out to people. This also at least doubles the risk of damage in transit. One of many reasons it might make sense to do everything in house one day.

No matter what Sideshow is the only ones to point fingers at for their product.


No finger pointing intended, just curious about other peoples opinions and whether it actually matters to them where items are made. It does seem more and more companies are moving away from China. Maybe over the next 5-10 years SS would be in a position to do the same. I'm sure SS have considered it of course, it ultimately comes down to money I guess and if it makes sense in that regard. Maybe it simply doesn't yet.

[CommanderZx2]

Then my standards on what is passable in my eyes would have to at least go up 30-50%.

Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen.

[built2shred]

No finger pointing intended, just curious about other peoples opinions and whether it actually matters to them where items are made. It does seem more and more companies are moving away from China. Maybe over the next 5-10 years SS would be in a position to do the same. I'm sure SS have considered it of course, it ultimately comes down to money I guess and if it makes sense in that regard. Maybe it simply doesn't yet.


Well the dog food that was killing dogs plus the lead paint in children's toys hasn't help Chinas reputation.

[SideShowJoe]

What we need to do is get collectors in here and also willing to invest in factory and we rent it out to sideshow so they don't have to go China every whipstich! Who's IN-vesting???

Sarah

[jaguargod]

We just need a few hundred million dollars. With that kind of money, we might as well just open our own collectibles company.

[jedi_don]

Well the dog food that was killing dogs plus the lead paint in children's toys hasn't help Chinas reputation.

You forgot the melamine in the baby formula and the diethylene glycol in the toothpaste incidents.

[biglebowski9999]

I think the problem is sideshow and not China. A lot of high end luxury brand has moved some of their manufacturing to china such as LV and BMW and they don't seem to have a lot of quality control issues with their manufacturing.
e

Tell that to Aston Martin and the huge recall they just had to do due to counterfeit Chinese plastic.

[dakkonmc]

[QUOTE=biglebowski9999;4767593]Tell that to Aston Martin and the huge recall they just had to do due to counterfeit Chinese plastic.[/

Sounded more like a case of fraud, but it still is the lack of QC from Aston Martin. There has been many cases that are like this US and Germany auto manufacture over the last 20 years

[Tbolt]

I think we are rapidly approaching a time when it wod make sense, but they will probably just shift production to India or Africa when China prices themselves out of SS profitability margins.

On a somewhat related note, my wife loves Under Armor pants. The ones at the PX are if an inferior quality and durability (made in China) to the ones we can buy here in Germany that are made in the EU. Those might cost a bit more, but are easily worth it.

[derekrodneysim]

four letter make this idea impossible OSHA.

China has no such standards, which makes it economically viable. Is that it, Matt?

[jaguargod]

China has no such standards, which makes it economically viable. Is that it, Matt?

"Workplace safety compliance is killing our bottom line. Let's move our operations somewhere that workplace safety is not the law. More people will get killed or injured, but we will make more money." - American Corporation

[Shadowfax]

"Workplace safety compliance is killing our bottom line. Let's move our operations somewhere that workplace safety is not the law. More people will get killed or injured, but we will make more money." - American Corporation
Bangladesh....nuff said

[Python]

I think we are rapidly approaching a time when it wod make sense, but they will probably just shift production to India or Africa when China prices themselves out of SS profitability margins.

Surely if they were investing the money in a move they may as well just do it closer to home. I'm sure SS would love to do this but maybe something is currently stopping it. If other big companies are doing it however we may start to see it more and more over the coming years.

[The SHOGUN]

it's just not feasible.

[loricstone]

Made in US doesn't guarantee quality. They would probably employ immigrants anyway as there is no way Americans would work for what would be on offered unless prices of statues double or quadrupole.

You sure about that? Cause there's a lot of unemployed folk out here in the states. :)

[Bullseye]

You sure about that? Cause there's a lot of unemployed folk out here in the states. :)

And probably illegals.

[loricstone]

We just need a few hundred million dollars. With that kind of money, we might as well just open our own collectibles company.

You don't need nowhere near that much.

Yes, a company would have to initially have to pay more upfront with costs initially to get the facilities in place, but I have no doubt money would be saved in the long run, with a faster turn around time, and less on shipping costs.

Initially, any company is going to have to bite the bullet until it really gets its foot underneath them. I for one would gladly pay more upfront costs to have everything done in the US. Even if my company did not do well for whatever reason, I have the facilities to output statues, action figures, etc. and would gladly welcome US collectible companies to use the facilities for a fair price.

We've got to start helping our fellow Americans thrive. As it is now, we couldn't stand on our own two feet because everything is done overseas or in other countries.

[leplant]

Is there anything comparable being offered through a US manufacturer, that would give some indication of the cost difference? I would love to see manufacturing return to the US, how long can we survive as a primarily consumer driven economy with a massive trade deficit? That being said, if it doubles the cost of collectibles, I am out. Not because I don't want the US to thrive, I just wont be able to afford it.

[jaguargod]

The costs of manufacturing in these developing countries is just going to continue to rise, and the quality is likely to remain the same. There will come a time when companies will no longer be able to sustain having their production there.

[The SHOGUN]

believe it or not, the chinese workers that are painting these collectibles are skilled individuals. The chinese factory painters are NOT getting the US minimum wage equivalent of $7.25 USD.

[jaguargod]

I believe that some of them are skilled individuals. Certainly not all of them. There is no doubt that working conditions in China are substandard.

[Python]

believe it or not, the chinese workers that are painting these collectibles are skilled individuals. The chinese factory painters are NOT getting the US minimum wage equivalent of $7.25 USD.

Oh I agree, no doubt, like I said it wasn't my intent to suggest otherwise. Elite Creature Collectables seem to be off to a great start with their production pieces and presumably they are produced in China? And SS are very capable of producing amazing pieces as it is. It just seems if it were feasible, the Benefits to SS would be huge! Not least of all the better access during all stages of production which would allow them to better control the QC issues that do unfortunately haunt them and us at times. I just wondered if the time was approaching within the decade maybe as other large companies seem to be moving production home.

[DynamicMenace]

would love for SS and all other "American" companies to move their production home.

[Snadinator]

would love for SS and all other "American" companies to move their production home.

Everything would initially be more expensive, much more. But the economy would improve immensely and eventually everyone would be making higher wages. When employers seek out the lowest common denominator in employee salaries, eventually we must all accept lower wages or be left out of the job market altogether.

We keep outsourcing all our work abroad. High paying jobs are disapearing and unless workers here are willing to accept the low wages that chinese are willing to accept, we will be left with fewer jobs.

America used to be a manufacturing goliath. It has been on a steady decline as it has been outsourcing everything.

Not to mention that China's industrial and state-sponsored cyber criminal activity is stealing our intellectual property left and right, and they are reverse engineering local designs and selling it so cheap that it bankrupts our industry. We are getting out maneuvered on the international stage!

[nbr3bagshotrow]

Everything would initially be more expensive, much more. But the economy would improve immensely and eventually everyone would be making higher wages. When employers seek out the lowest common denominator in employee salaries, eventually we must all accept lower wages or be left out of the job market altogether.

We keep outsourcing all our work abroad. High paying jobs are disapearing and unless workers here are willing to accept the low wages that chinese are willing to accept, we will be left with fewer jobs.

America used to be a manufacturing goliath. It has been on a steady decline as it has been outsourcing everything.

Not to mention that China's industrial and state-sponsored cyber criminal activity is stealing our intellectual property left and right, and they are reverse engineering local designs and selling it so cheap that it bankrupts our industry. We are getting out maneuvered on the international stage!

In a global marketplace that isn't always practical. Our overseas partners say "if you want us to buy your products, move some of your manufacturing over here. We can't afford your products." or

"we just moved some of our Toyota (or any other brand) to the US and now you are moving our plants back to the US putting our people out of work". or

"Fine, we will move our plants back to our country, be able to make them cheaper and then everyone else will buy from us and not the US because the products are cheaper".

it's a tit for tat world.

[Snadinator]

In a global marketplace that isn't always practical. Our overseas partners say "if you want us to buy your products, move some of your manufacturing over here. We can't afford your products." or

"we just moved some of our Toyota (or any other brand) to the US and now you are moving our plants back to the US putting our people out of work". or

"Fine, we will move our plants back to our country, be able to make them cheaper and then everyone else will buy from us and not the US because the products are cheaper".

it's a tit for tat world.

Yes indeed, but we shouldn't actively seek to partner with nations that monopolize the market with dirt cheap rates.

BTW I am Canadian not American. We are like minded though and suffer the same issues.

[nbr3bagshotrow]

Yes indeed, but we shouldn't actively seek to partner with nations that monopolize the market with dirt cheap rates.

BTW I am Canadian not American. We are like minded though and suffer the same issues.

But the reason their rates are cheap is the cost of living is much lower so their people get paid less. In the long run, as the Chinese (for example) build their middle class (and as such their pay goes up) things will ultimately average out. But it takes decades to accomplish.

Keep in mind, this is what happened in the US as manufacturing moved from the east coast to the mid west. Costs were lower.

[Snadinator]

But the reason their rates are cheap is the cost of living is much lower so their people get paid less. In the long run, as the Chinese (for example) build their middle class (and as such their pay goes up) things will ultimately average out. But it takes decades to accomplish.

Keep in mind, this is what happened in the US as manufacturing moved from the east coast to the mid west. Costs were lower.

I can't be that positive. If China's wages raise to american standards, most companies will pack up and move to another cheaper country. China and America are then SOL

[nbr3bagshotrow]

I can't be that positive. If China's wages raise to american standards, most companies will pack up and move to another cheaper country. China and America are then SOL
Yep, until everything evens out. Alternative is US wages have to come done while China's go up.

[DynamicMenace]

dont know what country your living in but the US wages have gone up . minimum wage that is. not much but its gone up none the less.

[nbr3bagshotrow]

dont know what country your living in but the US wages have gone up . minimum wage that is. not much but its gone up none the less.
not referring to minimum wage. More the skilled workers.

[hideousboi]

Is there anything comparable being offered through a US manufacturer, that would give some indication of the cost difference? I would love to see manufacturing return to the US, how long can we survive as a primarily consumer driven economy with a massive trade deficit? That being said, if it doubles the cost of collectibles, I am out. Not because I don't want the US to thrive, I just wont be able to afford it.

the American equivalent would be having a custom sculpt made, and finished. I statue created by an artist in America could run you anywhere from 1000-10000 dollars.

[Python]

Would a custom sculpt really be a fair comparison though? I mean if I paid you for one I'd no doubt get something much nicer than we could expect from any mass produced statue, whatever the country of origin.

[nbr3bagshotrow]

the American equivalent would be having a custom sculpt made, and finished. I statue created by an artist in America could run you anywhere from 1000-10000 dollars.
If Sideshow's PFs were all made in the US I could easily see them being $600+

[DynamicMenace]

well we are just about there arent we? the larger scaled characters are already at 600.

and give me an example of a skilled worker's wages decreasing rather than increasing. if anything the wages have gone up. they go up every year. its called cost of living raise.
in which i know the skilled workers get that automatically. at least they are supposed to. although it all depends on what company you work for thou i guess.