Hey Sideshow stop making plastic statues and taking shortcuts

[Hellz Manik]

Cmon man .....stop. First Voltron , then wolf bust then it's a premium format with no mix media, then one leg up statues.....stop.

Let's get back on track and make it happen....

I refuse to believe the golden age of sideshow is dead

[sil80jdm]

Sidesnatch collectibles... snatch your money all the way to the bank!

[SuperJ300]

I refuse to believe the golden age of sideshow is dead

Have you just woken up? This was declared years ago! Lol :laugh:

It's just luck know that the statue that you like comes out nice in production!

[Gyro Zeppeli]

The era of Rogue and Psylocke PFs is over :( RIP Sideshow

[majestic1]

Cmon man .....stop. First Voltron , then wolf bust then it's a premium format with no mix media, then one leg up statues.....stop.

Let's get back on track and make it happen....

I refuse to believe the golden age of sideshow is dead

To be fair a lot of people like no mixed media(cloth) on Premium Formats and the one leg up issue can't really be helped as they are very few options with leg poses when sculpting a bipedal human, it's basically either one leg up or no legs up.

But I fully agree that they need to stop with the plastic though, the Wolf LSB is a disgrace.

[Medusa]

I am not against mixed media where necessary (quills at the predator bust for example) but full cast in plastic is a no go.
We collect statues (Polystone) not Toys (PVC) !

[Silas Loki]

Just to offer a counter view point - I used to collect 1/6th Action Figures (dolls as some might say) and the levels of portrait realism that can be achieved in PVC is truly amazing.

I would like to see this "technology" employed more in 1/4 scale statues - if only for the headsculpts. So far, where it has been used, the effects have been remarkable.

Also, let's not forget, it's not the material that's used that makes a product a "TOY" it's the intended function. There is a huge list of PVC products out there that are clearly not toys. Equally, it's not the use of Polystone that equates to an adult collectable - in fact, for many many years statues were not even made of Polystone ;)

[Josh-a-tron]

Funny I thougjt the consensus on Voltron was that was a pretty great piece...

[Python]

This went off on a tangent a bit, the one leg up pose is subjective and actually works really well sometimes. Plus as Majestic said, the options for leg posing is rather limited in general. Do you want Darth vader doing a roundhouse kick?

Mixed media is similarly so, it depends very much on the subject in question really. I like mixed media, real netting on a Predator statue for instance is always far superior to sculpted and badly painted netting. But sometimes all sculpted is just the better way to go whether it is labeled a PF or not. A blanket complaint against it makes no sense really.

Now Plastic, I have to agree, focus your attention there as the Wolf LSB is atrocious and either it has to never happen again. Or Sideshow need to be far more open about it going forward so that people can avoid products like that which are all plastic. It's fine on small delicate parts that genuinely do require a different material, but not the entire thing. Especially as the plastic used feels to be of such a poor quality. We've heard the official lines about it actually costing more and it holding detail (despite Wolf losing a lot over the prototype when it's polystone cousins didn't) But at this point it seems very clear that the customer base has spoken loud and clear. The benefits in no way make up for the cons and we do not want fully plastic $650+ high end collectibles. If it is the case that they are going to be, make it very clear please. No beating around the bush, just please state that the entire thing will be plastic. 60 orders, only two people keeping it so far on the forums, and astonishingly negative feedback on all social platforms seems to indicate that it wasn't a great decision to make Wolf plastic. The sculpt was so damn beautiful as well which is the saddest part...

[ambasah]

Funny I thougjt the consensus on Voltron was that was a pretty great piece...

I have only heard positive things. was he plastic too?

[FriendlySamurai]

Funny I thougjt the consensus on Voltron was that was a pretty great piece...

I've got him. The sculpt is amazing. He does have quite a lot of plastic on him though. Not the soft pvc type but a lot of his "shell" seems more like the hard ABS playstation shell type plastic. The silver paint on the steel parts vs the mirror chrome paintup on the proto doesnt help matters either. Also the battle damage is lousy- similar to the Wolf lsb sharpie-like veins in the gums.

Its a love/hate relationship. I think most are forgiving about the piece because it is really imposing and intricate. I'm in love with the sculpt and he looks pretty good at normal viewing distance, but when I get closer I kind of want to bang my head against the wall. Hopefully I can afford a repaint one day. Sux to have to say that about a $1200 collectible piece.

[VS1976]

Voltron is plastic? That's expensive plastic. I cancelled my Man of Steel statue when I'd found out he was made out of plastic too.

[Mammal]

Voltron has plastic pieces on him, just like the last Red Sonja. He’s not entirely or even mostly plastic. The statue is plenty heavy and solid.

[aa909]

Fully agree that PVC plastic is a deal breaker for me too. The feel, weight, finer details and paint are superior on polystone IMO. Save the PVC for 1/6th koto pieces.

[FriendlySamurai]

Voltron has plastic pieces on him, just like the last Red Sonja. He’s not entirely or even mostly plastic. The statue is plenty heavy and solid.

Correct, he weighs a ton and is mostly polystone/resin. The plastic parts are mainly all the colorful parts that overlap the underlying sculpted pieces. Since theyre most visible I think theyve been picked up on more. A lot of the first reactions were negative to the plastic. In Sideshows defense I can kind of see the need for ABS where they did use it- but it does come off as a bit plasticky. The paint app might have been better on those parts- I think maybe it went too much with the natural coloring of the plastic? Also the silver paint in the undercarriage gave kind of the same effect the production Sauron piece had which didnt help draw attention away from the ABS.

The real aggravation to me was the bad battle damage. They drew black and silver eyebrows and eyelashes on the yellow and blue lions. On the chest its all evenly spaced brush dabs, in the same place and every other color- silver black silver black.

[MPCanes]

Every time it looks like they've got it all together with a string of great releases, something comes along and leaves you scratching their head. With competition at an all time high, they simply can't afford to release crappy statues - it's too easy to take that money elsewhere.

There better be no plastic on that upcoming x-men line...

[tonytiger]

The bottom line is they need to tell us what the heck its made of? When you a buy car is it made of steel or plastic? See Saturn..yea out of business because it was made of Plastic..lol Really, Sideshow we are not :nuts:

[Hellz Manik]

I have said this a looog Time ago “we need to stop settling because it’s going to get worse”. I had a massive amount of back lash and so forth but now we have come to this . Stop supporting these products and expect quality ...none of this maybe , we’ll what about nonsense. Let’s talk about poses here for a minute ...I have seen so many people put on how they want a pose for a statue , yet they never listened us, instead give us a michael Keaton batman with his head turning???? ( which if your a true batman fan he could not do that) . Second premium format , yes some people like mix media and some don’t. Sideshow started this....premium format mix material, since premium format (marketing sells) they figured let’s not do mix media anymore and call it a PREMIUM FORMAT, mix media is too much trouble. Last but not least ....some parts have plastic and some don’t , guys what is going on here .....expect the best ....this is your HARD EARNED MONEY .

[DPmaster]

The bottom line is they need to tell us what the heck its made of? When you a buy car is it made of steel or plastic? See Saturn..yea out of business because it was made of Plastic..lol Really, Sideshow we are not :nuts:

Sorry for the side tangent but funny enough, some of the most expensive and technologically advanced supercars/hypercars/race cars are actually made out of plastic. Of course it's not the same type of plastic used in Saturns lol. It's an extremely expensive material and they actually pride themselves of this. They actually make sure it's known that they are using carbon fiber. ;)

[OrangeCrush]

Funny I thougjt the consensus on Voltron was that was a pretty great piece...

Its a brilliant piece. I dont own it but my buddy does and it really is a brilliant piece. And I guess I have to consider myself extremely lucky to have recieved so many brilliant statues over the last couple years from a company that is supposedly already dead, lol.

[Gothamite]

Do you want Darth vader doing a roundhouse kick?


Yes.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/ca/0e/15ca0e2eb4d4f967f038fffa78b8f910.jpg

[Python]

Yes.


Yeah, me too actually.. :smokin:

[FriendlySamurai]

I'd agree Voltron is a brilliant sculpt, but other parts not so brilliant. Heres some comparison shots- Im a complete novice and could have made battle damage better than this. imo the switch to silver paint over the reflective chrome paintup is what contributed most to the plastickyness as you can see in the comparison thigh shots. lol sorry for the robot porn. The battle damage on the feet is just weird, like an 8 year old was drawing eylashes and eyebrows and wrinkle marks. Easily avoidable crap that shouldnt be on a $1200 piece is whats so frustrating.

[toe]

:itsb: that battle damage paint app is horrendous. Cant believe they would approve that. It doesn't even look remotely close to the paint master prototype.


I'd agree Voltron is a brilliant sculpt, but other parts not so brilliant. Heres some comparison shots- Im a complete novice and could have made battle damage better than this. imo the switch to silver paint over the reflective chrome paintup is what contributed most to the plastickyness as you can see in the comparison thigh shots. lol sorry for the robot porn. The battle damage on the feet is just weird, like an 8 year old was drawing eylashes and eyebrows and wrinkle marks. Easily avoidable crap that shouldnt be on a $1200 piece is whats so frustrating.

[Python]

Battle damage and subtle weathering has never been a strong point of the factories these things are made in sadly. Sidehsow are not alone in that area.

[FriendlySamurai]

Battle damage and subtle weathering has never been a strong point of the factories these things are made in sadly. Sidehsow are not alone in that area.

Its just a cop out. There are companies out there now that are actually reproducing their prototypes- and they have nowhere near the resources of SS. Selling what you have no possibility or intention of reproducing is just dishonest. Its not like they thought they could and then tried and failed- they didnt even try or had no intention of trying to begin with. Why would you show a prototype at a show with mirror chrome finish (a 3 step process), and then just paint it gunmetal for the masses? It was shown at con with no intention of ever being delivered- which also breaks the disclaimer which says the final product "may" be the same when it absolutely wont.

My first Sideshow pieces were from the JSC collection and came out spot on. I couldnt even comprehend back then that a company would release a product so different. Not gonna stray from the JSC collection any more.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

We're all preaching to our own choir here (nice when we all agree for a change) :D

In case there's some of you that haven't seen what's going on with the "currently shipping" Sideshow 1:2 scale Wolf Predator Legendary Scale Bust (LSB) - these are the combined stats on pre-orders from here and Sideshow Freaks.

Amazeballs.


https://s1.postimg.org/2rdrdgxgsf/Sadshow_Wolf_Predator_LSB_-_Combined_chart_v02.jpg


.

[VS1976]

I'd agree Voltron is a brilliant sculpt, but other parts not so brilliant. Heres some comparison shots- Im a complete novice and could have made battle damage better than this. imo the switch to silver paint over the reflective chrome paintup is what contributed most to the plastickyness as you can see in the comparison thigh shots. lol sorry for the robot porn. The battle damage on the feet is just weird, like an 8 year old was drawing eylashes and eyebrows and wrinkle marks. Easily avoidable crap that shouldnt be on a $1200 piece is whats so frustrating.

I don't know if I see a $1200 statue. Maybe $700. Glad I'd passed on this.

[ryuhayabusa6787]

I don't know if I see a $1200 statue. Maybe $700. Glad I'd passed on this.


:laugh:

You are most generous. As I've stated in the past I'm quite lucky to view most ss pieces in person once released. I saw this about a week ago and I snapped 3 pics to show my friend. The focus of it was the plastic looking leg more or less what @friendly samurai stated. I was shocked to say the least I don't know why though. $350 the most I'd do that's me being generous. This just looks like a toy.


108739

108740

108741

[actionjackson83]

wow... just wow..

[shakazulu]

Sorry for the side tangent but funny enough, some of the most expensive and technologically advanced supercars/hypercars/race cars are actually made out of plastic. Of course it's not the same type of plastic used in Saturns lol. It's an extremely expensive material and they actually pride themselves of this. They actually make sure it's known that they are using carbon fiber. ;)

Carbon fiber is closer to fiberglass. They can embed the cloth either in epoxy or polyester resin. This is a far superior material then PVC or vinyl. There is no comparison.

[IzeroI]

Funny I thougjt the consensus on Voltron was that was a pretty great piece...

Ya same here.

[SONICobra]

i dont own voltron but have seen it in person and thought it looked cool. i think the thin plates of armor being plastic was a wise move, trying to cast those in polystone would have looked very clunky

the predator lsf is another story, that thing... no good

[Vince]

What's all the discussion on Premium Formats not being mixed media anymore all about? All the latest pieces I bought still were mixed media ... Did Sideshow mention that ?

[Josh-a-tron]

Carbon fiber is closer to fiberglass. They can embed the cloth either in epoxy or polyester resin. This is a far superior material then PVC or vinyl. There is no comparison.

Funny you mention that, all three of the Life Size busts I have from Sideshow are Fiberglass I believe, love all three. But even then some complain about it being too light, they weigh about 25 or 30 lbs., so even then some would complain about the materials.

i dont own voltron but have seen it in person and thought it looked cool. i think the thin plates of armor being plastic was a wise move, trying to cast those in polystone would have looked very clunky

the predator lsf is another story, that thing... no good

Agreed, the materials on voltron look fine, the complaint has to do with the paint used not having a metallic sheen, not the materials.

What's all the discussion on Premium Formats not being mixed media anymore all about? All the latest pieces I bought still were mixed media ... Did Sideshow mention that ?

A few of them have not been mixed media, Amazing Spider-man, Venom, I believe the official Sideshow stance is they use mixed media where they feel it suits best to give the best looking effect.

[aa909]

Sorry for the side tangent but funny enough, some of the most expensive and technologically advanced supercars/hypercars/race cars are actually made out of plastic. Of course it's not the same type of plastic used in Saturns lol. It's an extremely expensive material and they actually pride themselves of this. They actually make sure it's known that they are using carbon fiber. ;)

carbon fiber is not plastic.

[Vince]

A few of them have not been mixed media, Amazing Spider-man, Venom, I believe the official Sideshow stance is they use mixed media where they feel it suits best to give the best looking effect.

Seems fine to me.
Statues like Venom and Spider-man are good examples of statues that don't require mixed-media.

[Demona]

I would have to send this piece back if I bought it. There is no way I could live with plastic looks and "battle damage" that looks like it was applied by using eyeliner.

Sorry to the owners who thought they would get something closer to the proto. With SS stepping up their game in most paint app areas, it's unacceptable that they dropped the ball with this piece.

[DPmaster]

carbon fiber is not plastic.

Yes it is in automobile applications anways though you are right in that carbon fiber itself is not a plastic. When most people think of carbon fiber, it's the combination of carbon fiber and plastic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber_reinforced_polymer

[aa909]

Yes it is in automobile applications anways though you are right in that carbon fiber itself is not a plastic. When most people think of carbon fiber, it's the combination of carbon fiber and plastic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber_reinforced_polymer

LMFAOOOOOOO!! yes I'm familiar with CFRP but dude that's such a ridiculous stretch to call the carbon fiber that goes into these supercars somehow "plastic" just to make a point. but if it makes you feel smarter by sharing a link then I hope you have a super cool day LOL!! :rolleyes:

[DPmaster]

LMFAOOOOOOO!! yes I'm familiar with CFRP but dude that's such a ridiculous stretch to call the carbon fiber that goes into these supercars somehow "plastic" just to make a point. but if it makes you feel smarter by sharing a link then I hope you have a super cool day LOL!! :rolleyes:

Calling it a plastic may have been a stretch but what most people think of "carbon fiber" is the combination of carbon fiber and plastic. Calling it carbon fiber makes it sound more exotic and expensive than carbon fiber reinforced plastic ;)

[Python]

I think we can all agree that plastic is an incredibly varied, and useful material. There are forms so different that it seems strang to have them all in the same family. "High quality PVC" However is worlds apart from carbon fiber, and polytstone, and the plastic being used by the factories Sideshow are employing doesn't feel or look high quality in the slightest, quite the opposite. Nor should it really be the material fully utilised in $650 Predator busts, or indeed anything else anywhere near this price bracket.

[DPmaster]

I think we can all agree that plastic is an incredibly varied, and useful material. There are forms so different that it seems strang to have them all in the same family. "High quality PVC" However is worlds apart from carbon fiber, and polytstone, and the plastic being used by the factories Sideshow are employing doesn't feel or look high quality in the slightest, quite the opposite. Nor should it really be the material fully utilised in $650 Predator busts.

You're right on all accounts. That Predator bust should not have cost what it did. I could do a lot with $650 but spending it on the Wolf LSB wouldn't be one of them.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Overall, I agree with the OP's sentiment. However, I would actually prefer they start making their capes in high quality PVC instead of fabric. No annoying staining, no annoyance spending time trying to mold the fabric capes to look good, no more dust issues (plus, no leaning issues from polystone capes).

[aa909]

Calling it a plastic may have been a stretch but what most people think of "carbon fiber" is the combination of carbon fiber and plastic. Calling it carbon fiber makes it sound more exotic and expensive than carbon fiber reinforced plastic ;)

LOL! now you're totally backtracking on your original point which was ridiculous. and your new point is even more ridiculous. The plastic/resin core is nothing more than a foundation to build up the carbon fiber in these exotic cars. The carbon fiber in a Veryon, Hurucan, etc is stronger, lighter and more durable than steel, aluminum etc..

dude dial down you ego for a moment and stop trying to save face by arguing that the carbon fiber in super cars is somehow a trivial marketing gimmick LOL!!

here's a link for you :wink2:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mclaren-mp4-12c-lexus-lfa-lamborghini-aventador-lp700-4-and-bugatti-veyron-16-4-grand-sport/

[DPmaster]

LOL! now you're totally backtracking on your original point which was ridiculous. and your new point is even more ridiculous. The plastic/resin core is nothing more than a foundation to build up the carbon fiber in these exotic cars. The carbon fiber in a Veryon, Hurucan, etc is stronger, lighter and more durable than steel, aluminum etc..

dude dial down you ego for a moment and stop trying to save face by arguing that the carbon fiber in super cars is somehow a trivial marketing gimmick LOL!!

here's a link for you :wink2:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mclaren-mp4-12c-lexus-lfa-lamborghini-aventador-lp700-4-and-bugatti-veyron-16-4-grand-sport/

Who says carbon fiber is a trivial marketing gimmick for super cars? It's a fantastic material used for applications in the automobile industry as well as others. It's the name itself that is a marketing gimmick. No one wants to hear their car is decked out in carbon fiber reinforced plastic. They like the term carbon fiber. Can't speak for others but carbon fiber sounds more exotic and expensive than saying my car has carbon fiber reinforced plastic.

[MeleeSparks]

I hear the argument, and understand the sentiment. However I actually like the PVC. In my opninion, they're able to make the character look better with the versatility of the PVC molding process.

Poly feels great, and it's weight feels like money you've spent. But I tend to think the PVC statues are able to look better, and in my opinion they do.

[DPmaster]

I hear the argument, and understand the sentiment. However I actually like the PVC. In my opninion, they're able to make the character look better with the versatility of the PVC molding process.

Poly feels great, and it's weight feels like money you've spent. But I tend to think the PVC statues are able to look better, and in my opinion they do.

The most amazing realistic head sculpts I've ever seen have actually been done with PVC.

[tonytiger]

I hear the argument, and understand the sentiment. However I actually like the PVC. In my opninion, they're able to make the character look better with the versatility of the PVC molding process.

Poly feels great, and it's weight feels like money you've spent. But I tend to think the PVC statues are able to look better, and in my opinion they do.

Are you guys collectors of statues or Action Figures? because bottom line is PVC looks like PLASTIC..No matter how good you paint it..Take the New Green Goblin the scarf around his neck is PVC and the rest is Poly-stone.Again you can clearly see the difference..

https://preview.ibb.co/bBFOik/IMG_1660.jpg (https://ibb.co/ggK5w5)

[SLO_MO]

Are you guys collectors of statues or Action Figures? because bottom line is PVC looks like PLASTIC..No matter how good you paint it..Take the New Green Goblin the scarf around his neck is PVC and the rest is Poly-stone.Again you can clearly see the difference..

https://preview.ibb.co/bBFOik/IMG_1660.jpg (https://ibb.co/ggK5w5)

PVC, when used correctly, can make a statue better. I would argue that Sideshow hasn't been putting out headsculpts that even come close to the detail and quality that companies like Blitzway (and even Hot Toys) are producing with PVC heads. If it makes the statue look better, and is a cheaper option (and those savings actually transfer to the consumer) I have no idea why it would be an issue. I'm not using my statues as free weights. The fact that Sideshow's recent implementation has been lackluster to say the least doesn't mean the idea should be written off completely.

If the head on the new Wolverine PF turns out to be PVC, will people lose their minds?

[Nugchompa]

Are you guys collectors of statues or Action Figures? because bottom line is PVC looks like PLASTIC..No matter how good you paint it..Take the New Green Goblin the scarf around his neck is PVC and the rest is Poly-stone.Again you can clearly see the difference..

https://preview.ibb.co/bBFOik/IMG_1660.jpg (https://ibb.co/ggK5w5)

That is a good use of PVC. Unlike the bust....

[Commander0Zero]

PVC, when used correctly, can make a statue better. I would argue that Sideshow hasn't been putting out headsculpts that even come close to the detail and quality that companies like Blitzway (and even Hot Toys) are producing with PVC heads. If it makes the statue look better, and is a cheaper option (and those savings actually transfer to the consumer) I have no idea why it would be an issue. I'm not using my statues as free weights. The fact that Sideshow's recent implementation has been lackluster to say the least doesn't mean the idea should be written off completely.

If the head on the new Wolverine PF turns out to be PVC, will people lose their minds?


Yes :D

[HeavyMetalSpike]

That is a good use of PVC. Unlike the bust....

:thumbs2:


.

[Xenoburger]

Wasn't that super-realistic-looking Marilyn Monroe statue by Blitzway PVC?

[DPmaster]

Wasn't that super-realistic-looking Marilyn Monroe statue by Blitzway PVC?

Yes it is. The head and hair are anyways.

The details are:

1. Head, Hair : PVC

2. Body : Skin effect Polystone & PVC

3. Shoes : Polystone

4. Diorama Base : Polystone

5. Costume : Fabric

6. Package : Color EPP + Color Box

http://www.blitzway.com/resources/images/product/monroe_photo.jpg

[Vracula]

PVC heads look great. Much more realistic than polystone. However if the entire statue isa head we have a problem.

[DPmaster]

Here is Blitzway's Basic Instinct statue.

The head is also PVC as well.

http://www.blitzway.com/resources/images/product/instinct_photo.jpg

[Josh-a-tron]

Yes it is. The head and hair are anyways.

The details are:

1. Head, Hair : PVC

2. Body : Skin effect Polystone & PVC

3. Shoes : Polystone

4. Diorama Base : Polystone

5. Costume : Fabric

6. Package : Color EPP + Color Box

http://www.blitzway.com/resources/images/product/monroe_photo.jpg

Here is Blitzway's Basic Instinct statue.

The head is also PVC as well.

http://www.blitzway.com/resources/images/product/instinct_photo.jpg

Let's also not forget who those were sculpted by, she is the best portrait sculptor in the business, hell maybe in the world.

[DPmaster]

Let's also not forget who those were sculpted by, she is the best portrait sculptor in the business, hell maybe in the world.

Yep definitely agree there. She does stunning work.

[Darkhumor]

.

If the head on the new Wolverine PF turns out to be PVC, will people lose their minds?

Sideshow Skeletor had a PVC harness, and a PVC headsculpt. I didn't mind the areas on the harness, but it bothered me that the headsculpt was plastic. A month later, I sold both HeMan and skeletor and never looked back to gettin back in the line. I dont like spending my hard earned money on plastic.

[Choopie]

Blitzway is a fine example of a company, and the factories it uses, that can effectively use PVC to its full potential. Sideshow is not anywhere near the level of Blitzway in its use of PVC. To incorporate some elements of it in a poly piece is fine, but to sculpt an entire statue in it should be avoided entirely, IMO, especially at the price points they are charging. Plus customers have made it loud and clear that they don't want that level of incorporation of plastic into their statues, yet Sideshow chooses to shove it down our throats, and not entirely reveal the materials used. It's definitely impacted my buying habits with them. I think twice now before preordering something, especially with prices still going up. I missed out on the Iron Man maquette because of it, but oh well. PVC for $700 does not equal value for my money, IMO.

[ozboy]

Polystone is a type of plastic...

[SLO_MO]

Blitzway is a fine example of a company, and the factories it uses, that can effectively use PVC to its full potential. Sideshow is not anywhere near the level of Blitzway in its use of PVC. To incorporate some elements of it in a poly piece is fine, but to sculpt an entire statue in it should be avoided entirely, IMO, especially at the price points they are charging. Plus customers have made it loud and clear that they don't want that level of incorporation of plastic into their statues, yet Sideshow chooses to shove it down our throats, and not entirely reveal the materials used. It's definitely impacted my buying habits with them. I think twice now before preordering something, especially with prices still going up. I missed out on the Iron Man maquette because of it, but oh well. PVC for $700 does not equal value for my money, IMO.

I hear you on this. I think the main factor is the price point - if the statue is made of cheaper material, they should be charging consumers a cheaper price. As for those who are "polystone or bust", at the end of the day I'm thinking I might just be looking for something different than some other collectors here - I don't necessarily care what material the statue is made out of, I only care how the final product looks. I mean, the only thing I'm going to be doing with a statue is looking at it. If PVC means better headsculpts and details like Goblin's scarf AND (!) a cheaper, easier-to-produce end product I'm all for it - but I agree it needs to be made clear from the jump. Obviously the way Sideshow has been going about so far with the Pred bust and Voltron isn't a good look, but Blitzway has shown the idea is solid and sustainable.

[Tbolt]

Plastic statues have their place. I really enjoy the $39.99 DST pieces I have. Granted, they don’t pretend to be something they are not.

[aa909]

Plastic statues have their place. I really enjoy the $39.99 DST pieces I have. Granted, they don’t pretend to be something they are not.

:goodpost:

[aa909]

Polystone is a type of plastic...

LMFAOOOOOOO!!!! Steel is also just a “type of iron”. Which one you wanna build your skyscraper outta??

[ozboy]

Polystone statues lean, weep resin, flake paint and break easily.
If cast properly and to the right thickness there is nothing wrong with other plastics for the statue medium. Somehow the superiority of pyolystone over other plastics and resins has become an ill informed fact.

[built2shred]

Polystone statues lean, weep resin, flake paint and break easily.
If cast properly and to the right thickness there is nothing wrong with other plastics for the statue medium. Somehow the superiority of pyolystone over other plastics and resins has become an ill informed fact.

That's just bad QC from the statue company, although I've never seen a statue weep resin... I have seen plastic statues ooze sticky paint, probably the plasticizer, Koto has had a few statues with that problem.

If SS was making 1/4 plastic statues for $300 I doubt anyone would have a problem but they charge the same amount for a plastic statue as they do for a polystone one.

There's a reason Koto charges $250+ for their 1/6 scale polystone statues and only $120 for their 1/6 scale plastic ones... It's obvious that plastic is cheaper material. Look at Yamato, they charge $250 for their polystone Wonder Woman statue but only charge $99 for their plastic Wonder Woman statue..

[xpl0sive]

Posted by Jerry a while back in the Pop Culture Shock section:

Theres a few reasons PVC statues look better than polystone.

Two main factors are PVC can be painted by machine as its strong enough to handle the process. Polystone can break or chip.

Second is every PVC statue comes out of a steel mold EXACTLY the same as the previous one so you can use copper spray masks for paint details.

Polystone comes out of a soft rubber mold and every piece has some slight variation which means the spray masks wont fit accurately

PVC is by far the superior material and process as is shown in the Yamato pieces. Polystones 'superiority' was basically a marketing gimmick created in the late 90s by companies that couldnt afford to do PVC.

Unfortunately, as soon as you get over ~12" the cost of the steel molds for PVC goes through the roof so a 1:4 scale pvc statue is even more expensive than a comparable polystone statue, unless you are making thousands of pieces in which case the cost of PVC comes down dramatically.

So, for example. A 22" statue of Goro will cost significantly more to make in PVC UNTIL you hit about 3000 pcs at which point the costs will come down. Once you hit 7000 pcs the cost will be less than it is to make it in PVC.

If you can sell 10000 pcs of a 22" pvc Goro you could probably get the price down to about 75% of what a polystone version would cost.

I read a lot of thread talking about costs, and this should cost that blah blah blah, but unless someone is actually employed in this business they dont understand how many factors contribute to what things cost.

I would love to only make PVC but that would mean price increases of 30-40% OR I can only make characters that will sell 3000+ pcs.

Neither are obviously going to work..."

[Racetrack]

Plastic or Polystone isn't as much the issue as the terrible final product here. They sold it as PVC so no problem there, It's just everything else wrong with it.

I don't even collect Preds so i have no horse in this race.

[Chargersfan57]

I question some of what jerry has been telling collectors about certain things so take some of what he says with a grain of salt. Or at least research all that info yourself.

[xpl0sive]

I question some of what jerry has been telling collectors about certain things so take some of what he says with a grain of salt. Or at least research all that info yourself.

I have, and he's not the only one to have said this. Others in the industry have said the exact same things.

[xpl0sive]

Plastic or Polystone isn't as much the issue as the terrible final product here. They sold it as PVC so no problem there, It's just everything else wrong with it.

I don't even collect Preds so i have no horse in this race.

I think you're in the wrong thread. This isn't the Wolf Predator bust thread, this is the "Hey Sideshow please stop making plastic statues" thread.

[Chargersfan57]

I have, and he's not the only one to have said this. Others in the industry have said the exact same things.

Ok good that's exactly what you should do. If you looked into it I believe you cause I certainly haven't. BTW when I say you I mean everybody should research something before stating it cause they may not know if their source is fully reliable.

Good on you looking into it though.

[Joel]

Plastic or Polystone isn't as much the issue as the terrible final product here. They sold it as PVC so no problem there, It's just everything else wrong with it.

I don't even collect Preds so i have no horse in this race.

Did they though? The post I saw said "mixed media: polystone and PVC".

Now I certainly don't think to myself "hmmm so that means the base is polystone and the rest PVC".

Nope from now on everyone here needs to assume if Sadshow put PVC in the decscription there's a good to fair chance the main media used for the whole peice is PVC no just little details.

Sadshow knows damn well when people see that media type we all PREVIOUSLY assumed only little bits would be PVC, not a main portion. Make no mistake THEY KNEW THIS. That's ONE of the reasons why Wolf Pred is in my opinion deception, not mistake.

No statue I ever add to my collection will have a large portion of PVC. I wouldn't call that a statue I'd call it a fancy money box and I don't collect fancy money boxes.

[Joel]

Plastic statues have their place. I really enjoy the $39.99 DST pieces I have. Granted, they don’t pretend to be something they are not.

Yeah, If this was found in the local toy store for $99-$199 we would all be going nuts over how someone did a pretty damn good plastic Predator!

[xpl0sive]

Ok good that's exactly what you should do. If you looked into it I believe you cause I certainly haven't. BTW when I say you I mean everybody should research something before stating it cause they may not know if their source is fully reliable.

Good on you looking into it though.

Yeah all good man. Only reason I looked into it is because I was curious, not because I thought Jerry was lying as he doesn't make anything in PVC so I don't think he has anything to gain by saying that.

For what it's worth, my personal preference is polystone as well, but I do think PVC has its place. I believe in using the best material to achieve the best possible outcome, and I think Blitzway do this best. They use a combination polystone and/or translucent resin for the body, fabric for the clothes and PVC for the headsculpts which results in some of the best headsculpts I've ever seen.

[FriendlySamurai]

I have also read that its the molds and es that determine the cost difference and that pvc is an easier material to work with so I agree with Jerry there. I disagree that pvc is the better product. He says it began as a marketing gimmick- maybe, but what if the gimmick was actually correct (or at least agreed upon by the majority of people who collect these things and can think for themselves)?

I started out collecting anime figures. Before I even knew there was a debate, when I could get hold of a polystone one I totally prefered the quality and beauty of it. There is no comparison at all between Yamato's Mirielle and Kirika statues and their Faye Valentine figure. The Noir girls are perfection. I switched over to Sideshow for this very reason. I couldnt see paying $150-200 for a new plasticky looking and smelling pvc 1/8 scale figure vs $380 (at the time) 1/4 scale porcelain-like works of art.

Pvc if done right is good for incorporation into a polystone piece. I try to avoid full sized pvc pieces anymore.

[aa909]

Posted by Jerry a while back in the Pop Culture Shock section:

Theres a few reasons PVC statues look better than polystone.

Two main factors are PVC can be painted by machine as its strong enough to handle the process. Polystone can break or chip.

Second is every PVC statue comes out of a steel mold EXACTLY the same as the previous one so you can use copper spray masks for paint details.

Polystone comes out of a soft rubber mold and every piece has some slight variation which means the spray masks wont fit accurately

PVC is by far the superior material and process as is shown in the Yamato pieces. Polystones 'superiority' was basically a marketing gimmick created in the late 90s by companies that couldnt afford to do PVC.

Unfortunately, as soon as you get over ~12" the cost of the steel molds for PVC goes through the roof so a 1:4 scale pvc statue is even more expensive than a comparable polystone statue, unless you are making thousands of pieces in which case the cost of PVC comes down dramatically.

So, for example. A 22" statue of Goro will cost significantly more to make in PVC UNTIL you hit about 3000 pcs at which point the costs will come down. Once you hit 7000 pcs the cost will be less than it is to make it in PVC.

If you can sell 10000 pcs of a 22" pvc Goro you could probably get the price down to about 75% of what a polystone version would cost.

I read a lot of thread talking about costs, and this should cost that blah blah blah, but unless someone is actually employed in this business they dont understand how many factors contribute to what things cost.

I would love to only make PVC but that would mean price increases of 30-40% OR I can only make characters that will sell 3000+ pcs.

Neither are obviously going to work..."


The post above is 100% based on the benefits of PVC as it relates to manufacturing process control. The ability to eliminate the human component and produce more consistency with machine painting, thereby eliminating QC variability... oh wait that didn't go as planned with the Wolf Predator Bust LOL!!


But If done right I think most collectors still want a polystone statue. I know I do.

[risingstar]

I think that if the "look" of the Predator bust wasn't reported to look so cheap, more people would have been more accepting of it as an optional medium. If the PVC process is truly that superior, then why does that apparent upgrade not present as more obvious to anyone else other than the people trying to sell the PVC? I'm not saying it's impossible. However, I think fans would need something more impressive than what they've seen so far, e.g., Man of Steel PF, Predator LSB.

[Nugchompa]

I think we are getting so upset about the use of PVC because polystone is one thing we have used to justify why these statues cost an absurd amount of money. The truth is, neither polystone of PVC costs a lot of money. If they were always made of PVC, people would be paying these prices and using some other metric to justify the statue's price. We are being gouged for hand painted hunks of resin and are using mental gymnastics to live with our spending choices. I got a hand painted dragon statue for $150. It is way bigger than most Sideshow pieces and is quite intricate. It is also polystone. I assume the company I got it from is still making a pretty hefty penny off of it. Let that sink in.

[Khev]

Threads like this will never make Sideshow stop cutting corners. However if it's true that 97% of all Wolf Predator bust buyers are sending theirs back then that WILL make them stop.

Always vote with your wallets.

[Fremen]

I'd love to know what dragon you got as I collection them (not to change the subject)

All my dragons are solid cold cast resin and this is by far my favorite material for capturing details.

[Nugchompa]

I'd love to know what dragon you got as I collection them (not to change the subject)

All my dragons are solid cold cast resin and this is by far my favorite material for capturing details.

Sent PM.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

. . . Sadshow knows damn well when people see that media type we all PREVIOUSLY assumed only little bits would be PVC, not a main portion. Make no mistake THEY KNEW THIS. That's ONE of the reasons why Wolf Pred is in my opinion deception, not mistake.

No statue I ever add to my collection will have a large portion of PVC. I wouldn't call that a statue I'd call it a fancy money box and I don't collect fancy money boxes.

Yeah, If this was found in the local toy store for $99-$199 we would all be going nuts over how someone did a pretty damn good plastic Predator!


Agree 100%.


Threads like this will never make Sideshow stop cutting corners. However if it's true that 97% of all Wolf Predator bust buyers are sending theirs back then that WILL make them stop.

Always vote with your wallets.


Based on feedback so far (for cancellations & returns combined), that percentage won't be far out.


.

[aa909]

Threads like this will never make Sideshow stop cutting corners. However if it's true that 97% of all Wolf Predator bust buyers are sending theirs back then that WILL make them stop.

Always vote with your wallets.

this is the only thing that people/companies will respond to with real action... to they'll get crushed by the competition.

[Indomitus]

Threads like this will never make Sideshow stop cutting corners. However if it's true that 97% of all Wolf Predator bust buyers are sending theirs back then that WILL make them stop.

Always vote with your wallets.

With all the issues and debates about Sideshow it does boil down to this and I agree. Vote with your wallet.

What we also need is spreading information on what the competition looks like out there. What I do find interesting is there are some very talented artists doing amazing sculpts that post on Facebook that you can also find on the MCE channel (see below) which many times is more dynamic and better than what Sideshow or the other big companies put out. Some of these really need to be picked up by the bigger studios or a house cleaning needs to be done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdoozLQLcQ

[MeleeSparks]

In my perfect world -- the base would be polystone to give it better anchoring capabilities, but the statue itself would be PVC for paint precision and quality details.

[Chargersfan57]

Yeah all good man. Only reason I looked into it is because I was curious, not because I thought Jerry was lying as he doesn't make anything in PVC so I don't think he has anything to gain by saying that.

For what it's worth, my personal preference is polystone as well, but I do think PVC has its place. I believe in using the best material to achieve the best possible outcome, and I think Blitzway do this best. They use a combination polystone and/or translucent resin for the body, fabric for the clothes and PVC for the headsculpts which results in some of the best headsculpts I've ever seen.

I've owned some plastic/pvc pieces in the past and while great with nice detail I can see why someone wouldn't want their $650 dollar collectible made out of the stuff.

As far as pcs is concerned I won't go into it but things have bothered me as of late. I realize it's not the place or time for that.

But companies NEED to be transparent with us! Whether it's about materials used or changes to the production piece from proto if companies want to be respected they need to show us respect.


That's where my feelings come from.

[COI]

Posted by Jerry a while back in the Pop Culture Shock section:

Theres a few reasons PVC statues look better than polystone.

Two main factors are PVC can be painted by machine as its strong enough to handle the process. Polystone can break or chip.

Second is every PVC statue comes out of a steel mold EXACTLY the same as the previous one so you can use copper spray masks for paint details.

Polystone comes out of a soft rubber mold and every piece has some slight variation which means the spray masks wont fit accurately

PVC is by far the superior material and process as is shown in the Yamato pieces. Polystones 'superiority' was basically a marketing gimmick created in the late 90s by companies that couldnt afford to do PVC.

Unfortunately, as soon as you get over ~12" the cost of the steel molds for PVC goes through the roof so a 1:4 scale pvc statue is even more expensive than a comparable polystone statue, unless you are making thousands of pieces in which case the cost of PVC comes down dramatically.

So, for example. A 22" statue of Goro will cost significantly more to make in PVC UNTIL you hit about 3000 pcs at which point the costs will come down. Once you hit 7000 pcs the cost will be less than it is to make it in PVC.

If you can sell 10000 pcs of a 22" pvc Goro you could probably get the price down to about 75% of what a polystone version would cost.

I read a lot of thread talking about costs, and this should cost that blah blah blah, but unless someone is actually employed in this business they dont understand how many factors contribute to what things cost.

I would love to only make PVC but that would mean price increases of 30-40% OR I can only make characters that will sell 3000+ pcs.

Neither are obviously going to work..."

Polystone feels like an expensive material; it has weight and a certain smooth/cold to the touch texture. PVC looks/feels like plastic, and because of the range of different plastics and their common use, we associate that feel with cheap plastic that you find on cheap items.

It may in fact be the superior material as far as its properties and it may be more expensive, but it doesn't feel that way, and in a hobby like this, or anywhere in the luxury goods realm, perception is important even if it's based on faulty logic. It's like when people associate quality with a specific brand name; the perception of the brand trumps the logic of actually comparing materials and processes used.

[Xenoburger]

Well if PVC can appear more life-like than polystone I'd prefer it.

I've never cared about statue weight or what a statue feels like when I rub my oily human hands on it, as I wear gloves when handling and have no desire to handle often.

The material that looks the most realistic and can hold the most detail and intricacy is what I deem superior. It also of course has to be durable and long-lasting.

If I wanted something unpainted with an actual stone or bronzed effect like an ancient Roman bust, then that is a situation in which I would probably not lean towards PVC.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Well if PVC can appear more life-like than polystone I'd prefer it.

I've never cared about statue weight or what a statue feels like when I rub my oily human hands on it, as I wear gloves when handling and have no desire to handle often.

The material that looks the most realistic and can hold the most detail and intricacy is what I deem superior. It also of course has to be durable and long-lasting.

If I wanted something unpainted with an actual stone or bronzed effect like an ancient Roman bust, then that is a situation in which I would probably not lean towards PVC.


Python posted some pics in the Wolf LSB thread, and it looks awesome in those pics.

As he pointed out though - that is NOT what these look like in-hand.

I sat mine next to a few of my Son's Funko Pop! figures - and that is EXACTLY what it looks like in-hand http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.png


.

[Xenoburger]

Python posted some pics in the Wolf LSB thread, and it looks awesome in those pics.

As he pointed out though - that is NOT what these look like in-hand.

I sat mine next to a few of my Son's Funko Pop! figures - and that is EXACTLY what it looks like in-hand http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.png


.Oh yeah, no doubt. This thing is garbage. I'm solely speaking of materials. PVC, from what I've seen, has the potential to be better than polystone.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Oh yeah, no doubt. This thing is garbage. I'm solely speaking of materials. PVC, from what I've seen, has the potential to be better than polystone.

Yeah - sorry bud - I knew what you meant - and that you'd seen that in the original thread - it was more for those solely monitoring THIS thread.

(* sorry for the confusion *)

.

[FriendlySamurai]

Well if PVC can appear more life-like than polystone I'd prefer it.


It can, but most often it just appears more plastic-like. The storm collectables Hulk Hogan has a pretty darn realistic and well done face, but he's entirely pvc and reminds me a bit more of the rubber bendy wendy Hulk I played with as a kid than a high end art piece.

[built2shred]

If Jerry is so knowledgeable about PVC, how come companies like Koto and Yamato sell their PVC statues for like 60% less then their Polystone counterparts?

If SS sold Man of Steel PF for $400 which was 100% PVC then they should be selling Polystone statues for like $300 according to Jerry.

Either these companies are losing a ton of money on their PVC statues or they're royally ripping customers off by placing a HUGE premium pricing on polystone.


Well if PVC can appear more life-like than polystone I'd prefer it..

That's not really the case though, Although Hot Toys and Bltizway can make realistic looking portraits in PVC, so can Iron Studios with Polystone, Gentle Giant Artemisia and Black Widow were also really great polystone portraits.

[Guilty]

If Jerry is so knowledgeable about PVC, how come companies like Koto and Yamato sell their PVC statues for like 60% less then their Polystone counterparts?

If SS sold Man of Steel PF for $400 which was 100% PVC then they should be selling Polystone statues for like $300 according to Jerry.

Either these companies are losing a ton of money on their PVC statues or they're royally ripping customers off by placing a HUGE premium pricing on polystone.




That's not really the case though, Although Hot Toys and Bltizway can make realistic looking portraits in PVC, so can Iron Studios with Polystone, Gentle Giant Artemisia and Black Widow were also really great polystone portraits.

You're forgetting that those are likely produced in far higher quantities than what Sideshow does. Citing a portion from F4F Alex, you have to sell thousands of PVC figures just to even start breaking even on the costs of the moulds.

On the flip side, Sideshow is producing these in limited quantities and with more work involved vs what is normally expected from a basic PVC figure.

[aa909]

From what I've seen, the paint finish on Polystone is superior to PVC, able to capture much finer details. and PVC will start to deform >60C, so how well will a 1/4 scale or 1/3 scale $700-$1000 PVC "statue" hold up stored over the weekend in the UPS warehouse in Nevada?

[built2shred]

You're forgetting that those are likely produced in far higher quantities than what Sideshow does. Citing a portion from F4F Alex, you have to sell thousands of PVC figures just to even start breaking even on the costs of the moulds.

On the flip side, Sideshow is producing these in limited quantities and with more work involved vs what is normally expected from a basic PVC figure.

Sideshow Edition Sizes are a lot higher then Yamato or Koto...

Like others have said, the biggest issue with PVC is perception, people link PVC with cheap plastic toys.... All I know is when I did get the MOS PF, when I held the body it felt like a plastic Barbie doll, it even bended a bit... It felt so cheap.... that's the legacy of PVC so trying to get people to think that PVC is superior to Polystone or Cold Cast Porcelain is a up hill battle IMO.

[silentwinter92]

PVC also has different grades and different types/compositions for different purposes.

PVC does not look as good as resin for 1/4 scale stuff from what I have seen just due to the matte smooth nature of the material that does not bring out the vibrancy of paintwork as well as polystone/resin.

However, that's not to say it doesn't have its uses. Due to the softer nature of the material, figures can look more natural and less rigid. Extremely complex sculpts especially in the sculpting of Hair strands can be made possible with pvc.
At a high level of replication, face sculpts for figures can even look downright realistic. One of my Favourite pvc companies is gecco and every sculpt I have from them is awesome. Polystone can't compare to pvc in this aspect at all, only prime 1's translucent resin is similar or better.

So imo, usage of pvc for 1/6 scales to obtain exceeding detail is perfectly fine if the quality of pvc used is very good. The type that doesn't shine in the light, has a matte look, is smooth to the touch doesn't degrade or turn yellow over time and is highly resistant to temperature. The pvc industry has come a Long way and it's down to companies to invest in the correct quality instead of skimping out.

Some e.g. of lousy pvc products, robin's body from tsume robin statue
Some e.g. of gd pvc companies, jap companies alter/flare/amakuni/gecco

[Josh-a-tron]

Sideshow Edition Sizes are a lot higher then Yamato or Koto...

Like others have said, the biggest issue with PVC is perception, people link PVC with cheap plastic toys.... All I know is when I did get the MOS PF, when I held the body it felt like a plastic Barbie doll, it even bended a bit... It felt so cheap.... that's the legacy of PVC so trying to get people to think that PVC is superior to Polystone or Cold Cast Porcelain is a up hill battle IMO.

That isn't true of Koto PVC pieces. Kotos runs are huge on the ArtFX and Artfx+, they actually have to bebin order for them to price them the way they do.

[prototypy]

Voltron is polystone almost,thank you.

[Xenoburger]

That's not really the case though, Although Hot Toys and Bltizway can make realistic looking portraits in PVC, so can Iron Studios with Polystone, Gentle Giant Artemisia and Black Widow were also really great polystone portraits.I can't speak for Iron Studios, but I'm familiar with Gentle Giant's Artemisia and Black Widow, and though they're both fantastic statues, I don't think either of them hold a candle to Blitzway's Marilyn Monroe, or their new Basic Instinct piece.

[built2shred]

I can't speak for Iron Studios, but I'm familiar with Gentle Giant's Artemisia and Black Widow, and though they're both fantastic statues, I don't think either of them hold a candle to Blitzway's Marilyn Monroe, or their new Basic Instinct piece.

True, there not quite on the same level as far as realism goes (skin texture, which seems easier to do with PVC) but then again both Marilyn Monroe and Sharon Stone "look" more like high-end dolls then statues because of it, especially with the mix media. That's not a bad thing but if you want a more pure statue/stone look then polystone and full sculpt are the way to go IMO.

That said, I do own blitzway statues which I display in my movie room and my friends and family think they look awesome since they go really well with the Hollywood theme I have in that room.

[built2shred]

That isn't true of Koto PVC pieces. Kotos runs are huge on the ArtFX and Artfx+, they actually have to bebin order for them to price them the way they do.

I was talking about their 1/6 scale lines. Although I didn't think their Artfx+ lines were that popular but I guess I'm wrong, although those are open edition sizes so who really knows..

[supermetroid]

PVC also has different grades and different types/compositions for different purposes.

PVC does not look as good as resin for 1/4 scale stuff from what I have seen just due to the matte smooth nature of the material that does not bring out the vibrancy of paintwork as well as polystone/resin.

However, that's not to say it doesn't have its uses. Due to the softer nature of the material, figures can look more natural and less rigid. Extremely complex sculpts especially in the sculpting of Hair strands can be made possible with pvc.
At a high level of replication, face sculpts for figures can even look downright realistic. One of my Favourite pvc companies is gecco and every sculpt I have from them is awesome. Polystone can't compare to pvc in this aspect at all, only prime 1's translucent resin is similar or better.

So imo, usage of pvc for 1/6 scales to obtain exceeding detail is perfectly fine if the quality of pvc used is very good. The type that doesn't shine in the light, has a matte look, is smooth to the touch doesn't degrade or turn yellow over time and is highly resistant to temperature. The pvc industry has come a Long way and it's down to companies to invest in the correct quality instead of skimping out.

Some e.g. of lousy pvc products, robin's body from tsume robin statue
Some e.g. of gd pvc companies, jap companies alter/flare/amakuni/gecco


Thanks for the insight, a lot of good info. My biggest concern as well with PVC is how long it will last? I know polystone isn't supposed to be in too hot temps or in sunlight, but it seems like PVC even more so along with cold? So you could potentially permanently damage the statue if you lose power for a couple days in the winter? It's also a mental thing I guess, I've had 2 polystone or resin statues with leans(1/4 SS Superman PF and Koto 1/6 Danger Room Psylocke) out of around 70+ and I only have a handful of PVC so I can't say personally how they hold up although I've had no problems.

Even if I knew SS was using high quality PVC, in my mind I'm thinking it won't hold up as well long term especially if they're larger 1/4 statues. What's your opinion on this?

[Blacksunn]

LMFAOOOOOOO!! yes I'm familiar with CFRP but dude that's such a ridiculous stretch to call the carbon fiber that goes into these supercars somehow "plastic" just to make a point. but if it makes you feel smarter by sharing a link then I hope you have a super cool day LOL!! :rolleyes:

I don't think he was trying to make a point. It is what it is... Plastic.... a VERY strong light weight plastic. I LOVE it, on my car as a substantial weight savings but not my statues.........

[Josh-a-tron]

I was talking about their 1/6 scale lines. Although I didn't think their Artfx+ lines were that popular but I guess I'm wrong, although those are open edition sizes so who really knows..

Well the Artfx is 1/6 pvc, I'm assuming you're talking about the fineart line in which case that is cold cast porcelain, and yes has a lower edition size.

Either way I've never found anything Koto does to be that amazing, though I'm sure some would disagree, same with yamato who also has both PVC and polystone/coldcast pieces.

[Ryanbusts]

I don't think he was trying to make a point. It is what it is... Plastic.... a VERY strong light weight plastic. I LOVE it, on my car as a substantial weight savings but not my statues.........

This,^^^^^
If I want plastic or PVC/schedule 80 lol
I'd buy an action figure.

The release of the Predator LSB and other pieces that have came out with cheaper materials is not acceptable.
Everyone on the forums that is tired of some of us beotching- well there are reasons for it. You can't expect a big bump and random bump in pricing to not piss collectors off. Especially when the reasoning is literally BS. They take short cuts and cherry pick which PF character will cost 500 or 700 or whatever.
None of this changes the fact that we are all here to collect and enjoy a hobby. If certain things don't effect you- pricing, QC, ES, materials- then read on. But the fact is they are outpricing the expected quality of the products we buy.

[Gecktechs]

Just playing devil's advocate here..

Lets say every statue you received from Sideshow came out flawless - A 100% match to the prototype. Looked like Casey Love just finished painting that sh!t. Nothing looked cheap or toyish, BUT it was made of plastic and weighs 8 pounds.. How would you guys react to that?

[supermetroid]

Just playing devil's advocate here..

Lets say every statue you received from Sideshow came out flawless - A 100% match to the prototype. Looked like Casey Love just finished painting that sh!t. Nothing looked cheap or toyish, BUT it was made of plastic and weight 8 pounds.. How would you guys react to that?

I'd be perfectly fine with that IF it would last a long time. The weight I don't feel is the big problem but more so the plastic shiny look that looks like cheap toys.

[Ryanbusts]

Just playing devil's advocate here..

Lets say every statue you received from Sideshow came out flawless - A 100% match to the prototype. Looked like Casey Love just finished painting that sh!t. Nothing looked cheap or toyish, BUT it was made of plastic and weighs 8 pounds.. How would you guys react to that?

Short and to the point.
Funko POP have almost flawless paint apps.
Mezco action figures too.
Don't know what else to say except it's like comparing an air soft gun to a real gun. ;)

[FriendlySamurai]

The trick would be making a completely pvc statue not look at all like pvc. So then why use pvc if you dont want the end product to look like itself? Its like using dough, mozzarella and tomato sauce to make a cheeseburger. Better to just build a cheesburger with cheeseburger parts. Im hungry.

[Gecktechs]

Short and to the point.
Funko POP have almost flawless paint apps.
Mezco action figures too.
Don't know what else to say except it's like comparing an air soft gun to a real gun. ;)

Umm.. I actually wasn't comparing anything lol.. I just want to see some other opinions. I know a lot of people who could care less about the weight or the material their statues are made of. As long as they get what was visually advertised to them, that's all that matters.

*Keep in mind that I hate pvc and always love a little weight on my statues. I just wanted to see how people here would react in that scenario.

[Ryanbusts]

I was making the comparison as an example on my view of that.

[Gecktechs]

The trick would be making a completely pvc statue not look at all like pvc. So then why use pvc if you dont want the end product to look like itself? Its like using dough, mozzarella and tomato sauce to make a cheeseburger. Better to just build a cheesburger with cheeseburger parts. Im hungry.

I don't think the whole cheeseburger thing works here tho because pvc is not limited to only action figures or toys. Companies like Koto and DCD have used pvc on a lot of their pieces, and I'm sure if painted the proper way, they wouldn't look toyish at all. There's more than one way to build a house. Same with statues lol. Again, just playing devil's advocate here.

[Ryanbusts]

The trick would be making a completely pvc statue not look at all like pvc. So then why use pvc if you dont want the end product to look like itself? Its like using dough, mozzarella and tomato sauce to make a cheeseburger. Better to just build a cheesburger with cheeseburger parts. Im hungry.

It's like getting a burger from McDonalds or Portillos. Both are burgers but only one has the beef! :drooling:

[Gecktechs]

It's like getting a burger from McDonalds or Portillos. Both are burgers but only one has the beef! :drooling:

Lmfao

[Blacksunn]

Just playing devil's advocate here..

Lets say every statue you received from Sideshow came out flawless - A 100% match to the prototype. Looked like Casey Love just finished painting that sh!t. Nothing looked cheap or toyish, BUT it was made of plastic and weighs 8 pounds.. How would you guys react to that?

Doesn't plastic/vinyl deform under certain temperature conditions.

I have a Pumpkinhead vinyl kit that was kept for years in my climate controlled basement, which is a bit cooler than the rest of the house. It still started leaning after 2-3 years... I had to take it down because nothing I did could ever get it to stay straight again...

[FriendlySamurai]

I don't think the whole cheeseburger thing works here tho because pvc is not limited to only action figures or toys. Companies like Koto and DCD have used pvc on a lot of their pieces, and I'm sure if painted the proper way, they wouldn't look toyish at all. There's more than one way to build a house. Same with statues lol. Again, just playing devil's advocate here.

but still the goal is for the plastic not to look like plastic. Blitzway is good at doing that for several reasons. But when a piece using pvc shows the natural qualities of pvc- shinyness, softness, etc- its a fail. If pvc cant end up looking like pvc, you got to up your alchemy skills or use the right ingredients.

[Gecktechs]

Doesn't plastic/vinyl deform under certain temperature conditions.

I have a Pumpkinhead vinyl kit that was kept for years in my climate controlled basement, which is a bit cooler than the rest of the house. It still started leaning after 2-3 years... I had to take it down because nothing I did could ever get it to stay straight again...

Perhaps.. but I'm willing to bet it had something to do with the statue's engineering. That seems to always be the culprit with those kinds of issues, not so much materials used.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

That SOTA Pumpkinhead is too top-heavy to be made of vinyl.

Leaning issues can be "fixed" by tipping it upside-down etc. for a few days until it's (sort of) back in shape, but once warped, it never looks as good as it did in the box.

One of the top 5 Pumpkinhead sculpts out there - licenced OR garage-kit - and deserved to be a polystone statue NOT a poorly jointed action figure.

.

[Darkhumor]

Wow... I cant believe my eyes, people are actually proposing plastic, vinyl for statues. Hate Blitzway. Dont care how good a plastic headsculpt piece looks. All I know is if sideshow decides to go through listening to feedback here, and they start making PVC portraits with 1/4 pieces, I'm out from this company completely.

They should not gauge feedback in here, as you guys are the minority, less than 20 of the same people talking about it. You guys dont represent the majority of us. If they want to gauge feedback, they should do it on facebook, where the majority of collectors are very vocal against plastic.

I dont mind plastic for very minimal areas where it makes sense. But anything above $350 on a 1/4 statue, especially on a portrait, no f'n way. Blurring the lines between a statue, and a toy doll here.

[supermetroid]

Wow... I cant believe my eyes, people are actually proposing plastic, vinyl for statues. Hate Blitzway. Dont care how good a plastic headsculpt piece looks. All I know is if sideshow decides to go through listening to feedback here, and they start making PVC portraits with 1/4 pieces, I'm out from this company completely.

They should not gauge feedback in here, as you guys are the minority, less than 20 of the same people talking about it. You guys dont represent the majority of us. If they want to gauge feedback, they should do it on facebook, where the majority of collectors are very vocal against plastic.

I dont mind plastic for very minimal areas where it makes sense. But anything above $350 on a 1/4 statue, especially on a portrait, no f'n way. Blurring the lines between a statue, and a toy doll here.


I guess we're reading different threads because almost everyone here is in agreement that PVC should be saved for smaller scales from other companies that are priced accordingly or for easily breakable pieces that need a little flexibility. Some of us are just trying to figure out why SS sometimes tries to use PVC and the advantages/disadvantages of the material compared to polystone. So just because we're discussing this means we're advocating using it? lol

[Darkhumor]

I guess we're reading different threads because almost everyone here is in agreement that PVC should be saved for smaller scales from other companies that are priced accordingly or for easily breakable pieces that need a little flexibility. Some of us are just trying to figure out why SS sometimes tries to use PVC and the advantages/disadvantages of the material compared to polystone. So just because we're discussing this means we're advocating using it? lol

Sideshow makes some asinine decisions to test the water out. There's a few in here that are advocating it. So what's gonna stop sideshow from experimenting with it? Just sayin. They do it with prices, when you guys speculate how much particular pieces are gonna be before pre orders go up, and how much people would pay, saying they'd pay top dollar. People are gonna get what they ask for, if sideshow thinks they can get away with it.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Sideshow makes some asinine decisions to test the water out. There's a few in here that are advocating it. So what's gonna stop sideshow from experimenting with it? Just sayin. They do it with prices, when you guys speculate how much particular pieces are gonna be before pre orders go up, and how much people would pay, saying they'd pay top dollar. People are gonna get what they ask for, if sideshow thinks they can get away with it.

Sideshow doesn't take much notice of what's said on these forums.

Plus, the percentage of their customer base that post here is small.

Plus, hardly anyone (if anyone) is saying they want statues made of vinyl.

You're getting yourself worked up over nothing.


.

[supermetroid]

If SS listened to the forums then they would never make a fully PVC statue again looking at how the thread on the Wolf LSB and PVC Superman went lol.

[samhain81]

I'd pay top dollar for a high detailed 1/4 pvc statue of good sideshow quality

[HeavyMetalSpike]

If SS listened to the forums then they would never make a fully PVC statue again looking at how the thread on the Wolf LSB and PVC Superman went lol.


Yup.

(* actually - I know they did take notice of the recent (ongoing) Wolf LSB thingy - prompted by the phone calls & emails they were getting :) *)


.

[Darkhumor]

Sideshow doesn't take much notice of what's said on these forums.

Plus, the percentage of their customer base that post here is small.

Plus, hardly anyone (if anyone) is saying they want statues made of vinyl.

You're getting yourself worked up over nothing.


.

Nobodys getting worked up. Im just stating what ive been seeing over these last 4 years of sideshows attempts. But to say sideshow doesnt notice anything in here is wrong. They need somewhere to get feedback. Maybe not so much here per se, now that social media has dominated forum boards. But im certain they keep an eye on the forums from time to time, and acknowledge feedback, especially when their reps and art director frequent and participate in here.

[Xenoburger]

Wow... I cant believe my eyes, people are actually proposing plastic, vinyl for statues. Hate Blitzway. Dont care how good a plastic headsculpt piece looks. All I know is if sideshow decides to go through listening to feedback here, and they start making PVC portraits with 1/4 pieces, I'm out from this company completely.

They should not gauge feedback in here, as you guys are the minority, less than 20 of the same people talking about it. You guys dont represent the majority of us. If they want to gauge feedback, they should do it on facebook, where the majority of collectors are very vocal against plastic.

I dont mind plastic for very minimal areas where it makes sense. But anything above $350 on a 1/4 statue, especially on a portrait, no f'n way. Blurring the lines between a statue, and a toy doll here.You seem angry.

[aa909]

Wow... I cant believe my eyes, people are actually proposing plastic, vinyl for statues. Hate Blitzway. Dont care how good a plastic headsculpt piece looks. All I know is if sideshow decides to go through listening to feedback here, and they start making PVC portraits with 1/4 pieces, I'm out from this company completely.

They should not gauge feedback in here, as you guys are the minority, less than 20 of the same people talking about it. You guys dont represent the majority of us. If they want to gauge feedback, they should do it on facebook, where the majority of collectors are very vocal against plastic.

I dont mind plastic for very minimal areas where it makes sense. But anything above $350 on a 1/4 statue, especially on a portrait, no f'n way. Blurring the lines between a statue, and a toy doll here.

:goodpost:

[krzykoopa]

This thread is literally titled Hey Sideshow stop making plastic statues and taking shortcuts lol

[built2shred]

I don't think the whole cheeseburger thing works here tho because pvc is not limited to only action figures or toys. Companies like Koto and DCD have used pvc on a lot of their pieces, and I'm sure if painted the proper way, they wouldn't look toyish at all. There's more than one way to build a house. Same with statues lol. Again, just playing devil's advocate here.

Actually DCD statues are cold cast porcelain... Their action figures and other toys are plastic.

[Gothamite]

This thread is literally titled Hey Sideshow stop making plastic statues and taking shortcuts lol

You should read this thread if you want real lulz

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427

[crimsinwing1989]

You should read this thread if you want real lulz

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427
:laugh::iagree:

[HeavyMetalSpike]

You should read this thread if you want real lulz

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427

Best to start at page 52 - here - http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427&page=52 :wink2:


.

[Ryanbusts]

You should read this thread if you want real lulz

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427

Word

[Gecktechs]

Actually DCD statues are cold cast porcelain... Their action figures and other toys are plastic.

Not all of them.. their Ame-Comi statue line is all pvc.. Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Zatana, Poison Ivy etc...

[Gothamite]

Not all of them.. their Ame-Comi statue line is all pvc.. Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Zatana, Poison Ivy etc...

The new Artists Alley line as well.

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=160625

[built2shred]

That's because those are toys not statues :p

[krzykoopa]

You should read this thread if you want real lulz

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=156427

No No I stay away form that thread

[Hellz Manik]

They are at it again with the swamp think maquette. Once again stop supporting these products

[Valderen]

If it's clearly identified on the product page, I have no issue with this. I'll pass on all these plastic toys though.

[gagaliya]

I've got him. The sculpt is amazing. He does have quite a lot of plastic on him though. Not the soft pvc type but a lot of his "shell" seems more like the hard ABS playstation shell type plastic. The silver paint on the steel parts vs the mirror chrome paintup on the proto doesnt help matters either. Also the battle damage is lousy- similar to the Wolf lsb sharpie-like veins in the gums.

Its a love/hate relationship. I think most are forgiving about the piece because it is really imposing and intricate. I'm in love with the sculpt and he looks pretty good at normal viewing distance, but when I get closer I kind of want to bang my head against the wall. Hopefully I can afford a repaint one day. Sux to have to say that about a $1200 collectible piece.

So basically r2d2 plastic, are you for real they used that on a $1300 statue? Wow....

[silentwinter92]

Thanks for the insight, a lot of good info. My biggest concern as well with PVC is how long it will last? I know polystone isn't supposed to be in too hot temps or in sunlight, but it seems like PVC even more so along with cold? So you could potentially permanently damage the statue if you lose power for a couple days in the winter? It's also a mental thing I guess, I've had 2 polystone or resin statues with leans(1/4 SS Superman PF and Koto 1/6 Danger Room Psylocke) out of around 70+ and I only have a handful of PVC so I can't say personally how they hold up although I've had no problems.

Even if I knew SS was using high quality PVC, in my mind I'm thinking it won't hold up as well long term especially if they're larger 1/4 statues. What's your opinion on this?

I havent heard any problems of PVC with cold
temperatures. For those 2 statues you mentioned it probably has more to do with the overall engineering of the pieces.

For larger 1/4 statues, structurally they should hold up fine as Long as the main body is made out of abs. From a smaller scale to larger scale perspective, what companies do is then mould individual pieces of the statue out of different grades of pvc and then attach it to the statue. It's like ss's mixed media approach albeit on a pvc level. You have freedom to craft complicated outfits but still retain the illusion of a fully sculpted figure. The material is less brittle in nature and not prone to breakage but as it is a softer material it does not hold up as well as polystone/resin in supporting weight. On the other hand, pvc is lighter so there is lesser load stress.

The main problem is paint application to make things look realistic, in most cases the cost of detailed paintwork to make things realistic might altogether cost more than the difference you saved switching to pvc. There are also assembly costs to factor in.

Will I buy a 1/4 pvc statue? Probably not because of the psychological association of light weight materials with cheap quality. Ss could however Imitate something called charagumin that is basically resin model kits. They look good, have good weight, retain all the good qualities of pvc but is not pvc.

[wolf-brother]

That's because those are toys not statues :p

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[FriendlySamurai]

So basically r2d2 plastic, are you for real they used that on a $1300 statue? Wow....

Heres a good example pic of everything Ive talked about. Phenomenal detail, even the detail has details. You can tell though from the back that the yellow Lion’s “shell” part (on the front)is plastic. Really though its only a small part of the problem. I think parts that are supposed to be metal but are only painted is a similar issue to the using pvc problem. Its ok to just paint metal parts silver- when its small and not a big focal point. But when the majority of the statue is supposed to be metal, painting it silver comes across fake- just like making the majority of a statue out of pvc looks cheap. I know that the metal chrome painting process cant really be sealed, so maybe its not possible qc-wise on a production piece? But then if thats the case it should not be shown on the prototype when they know it wont be used- thats just not right.

[iceprince_x]

With swamp thing being the next statue with a different material (vinyl)... I now dread about Aspen being the same as well.

[French Cancan]

We could imagine a statue with a "skin" made of vinyl, and filled with polystone - as mentioned by Jerry of PCS-
It could be a good idea for a statue of J-LO, we could count the skin pores of J-LO, the pimples of the skin of J-LO, the fine wrinkles of the skin of J-LO (I am kidding of course, it’s just an example, J-LO is PERFECT), and obtain a f*****g level of stunning realism.
But I have zero interest in obtaining such a level of realism for fictitious characters as Harley, Red Sonja, Catwoman etc.... Zero interest for their pores, pimples or wrinkles.
So, please, let me dream with my polysoftskin ladies.

[Ezhil]

The upcoming statues and further new reveal during Christmas should also likely to be plastic toys unless mass exodus from customers make them change again to polystone. Certainly not good time for collectors

[supermetroid]

I really wonder why they're using these different materials if it's not the obvious which is to make more profit? Weight? Ok, that's a pretty big factor I guess for shipping, but a huge piece like Swamp Thing will surely be expensive for the size alone, will a 10 lb box be that much cheaper than a 35 lb one? Breakages could be a possibility, but is the trade off for less breakable statues worth it for lighter cheaper looking statues that seemingly collectors don't want(at these prices)? I'm just trying to figure out the sudden change after all these years of using polystone if they're not trying to improve the quality. It's not like I really care or I'm invested as I'll just switch to other companies even more if they start releasing plastic statues on the regular, I just don't understand why lol.

I own some routes as a distributor for a big company and me and all the other drivers always tell the "bosses" to focus on quality above anything else. Once you start cutting corners and letting quality slip that's when the sales start declining.

[MrJones]

I agreed with the thread title but then uou guys lost me on page 5 discussing the semantics of plastic.

[SolidLiquidFox]

The upcoming statues and further new reveal during Christmas should also likely to be plastic toys unless mass exodus from customers make them change again to polystone. Certainly not good time for collectors

Collectors seem to be a renewable resource. One leaves and another one takes its place. Sideshow is safe.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Collectors seem to be a renewable resource. One leaves and another one takes its place. Sideshow is safe.

I shall from now on think of Sadshow as a wind farm.

Makes sense really given all the hot air they throw at us from time-to-time :)

.

[built2shred]

Collectors seem to be a renewable resource. One leaves and another one takes its place. Sideshow is safe.

If that was true it wouldn't take years to sale out where in the past it would be months.... Sales are defiantly slowing down, I'm also curious if SS does the full runs of the Edition Sizes on some of these less popular statues.

[SolidLiquidFox]

If that was true it wouldn't take years to sale out where in the past it would be months.... Sales are defiantly slowing down, I'm also curious if SS does the full runs of the Edition Sizes on some of these less popular statues.

Sideshow has made it clear that they have no problem playing the long game. :laugh:

They control the batches of these huge edition sizes. They control the wait lists and fake sell outs. I think overall sales are slowing down but like I said, they hold all the cards and are a big patient company.

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Sounds like we should treat their claimed "edition sizes" less than seriously as well from now on :D

Still - there's a fair bit of land round their offices - and California's a big State - plenty of room to build more warehouse space :laugh:

.

[tonytiger]

Hey look at the bright side of all this, your polystone statues will be going up and up in price because everybody is going to want them.Thanks sideshow :thumbs2:

[HeavyMetalSpike]

Hey look at the bright side of all this, your polystone statues will be going up and up in price because everybody is going to want them.Thanks sideshow :thumbs2:


:laugh: http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/hi5.gif



.

[built2shred]

If you don't want to pay full retail and don't mind a used statue and waiting several months, you can probably buy a used one about 20%-30% less then retail. It's a buyers market right now with a flood of product...

[Ezhil]

Early days we were worried whether the statues teased in advance match the final in hand ones, the price, shipping charges and any breakage. But nowadays we worry even for the material too as we have assumed that all our liked and preordered ones were default polystone

[Cyber-Lip]

They started hollow pieces using a plasticy resin about 10 years ago with the THING PF. That was the shark jumping moment.

[VS1976]

The thing is made out of vinyl?

[Parallax]

The thing is made out of vinyl?

No, it's polystone.

[shakazulu]

They started hollow pieces using a plasticy resin about 10 years ago with the THING PF. That was the shark jumping moment.

The entire Premium Format Thing from Sideshow is polystone. Only mix media on this piece was the cloth pants or shorts. Super heavy quality piece. They sure don't make them like they used too.

[dreamactius]

The era of Rogue and Psylocke PFs is over :( RIP Sideshow

I love sarcasm.:) Those were two epic fails in the QC department. Looks like they've been hit and miss for a while.

[DPmaster]

I love sarcasm.:) Those were two epic fails in the QC department. Looks like they've been hit and miss for a while.

Sideshow has been hit or miss for as long as I can remember. I remember buying a Predator 1:1 bio mask from them and the lens of the bio was made out of PAPER. Difference now is they aren’t the only game in town so I have more choice on what to buy.

[Cyber-Lip]

The thing is made out of vinyl?

Not pure plastic, or the polystone they had been using up until that point, but a mix of some sort. Whatever it was didn't take paint well, and many of the Things had bare spots and translucent patches of show-through. It was also hollow and had a weird feel to it. Felt like a lawn ornament. I also had the first HULK PF when I received the THING, and the difference of whatever they used on the THING vs what they used on the HULK was night and day

[VS1976]

Not pure plastic, or the polystone they had been using up until that point, but a mix of some sort. Whatever it was didn't take paint well, and many of the Things had bare spots and translucent patches of show-through. It was also hollow and had a weird feel to it. Felt like a lawn ornament. I also had the first HULK PF when I received the THING, and the difference of whatever they used on the THING vs what they used on the HULK was night and day

The thing was hollow casting Vs Hulk was not. I own both of them too. If the Thing was indeed vinyl then bravo to ssc for making it that great.
However, since Swamp Thing is vinyl, IMO it's like buying a 1/4 scale Neca figure. Those necas are $100 or so. That's what I feel this should be. Charging $820 is absurd. JMHO