What does Randy think of Bowen flippers?

[JSA]

Just curious folks - Has Randy ever expressed an opinion on Bowen flippers?

Specifically boardmembers here, but anybody in general really.

Does it annoy him that "true" :rolleyes2 collectors aren't getting his product and
that they're immediately being turned around for profit by boardmembers?

I don't care either way, being kinda flippy myself, but I was just curious.

JS :confused:

[bat_collector]

Does this really needs to be addressed? Is it gonna stop anybody from doing it if he comes out and says how much he hates it?

I doubt it would. A phasing vision going for $650.00 on ebay would persuade many people to sell it.

Its part of reality in the collectible market.

[risingstar]

While there are probably lot of ways to look at this question, this was my first thought....

Flippers get people talking about BD. In fact, some might argue that all this flipping of exclusives and limited rarities compelled a lot of people to join the BDCC.......

[bat_collector]

In the end the flippers bought the product from BD ensuring it sold out. What they do afterwards with it is entirely their business.

[lord odin]

If there were no flippers there would be no ebay if there were no ebay alot of use wouldn`t have things in our collection.

[Deadpool]

I doubt it brother.... as long as Randy is getting his $$$, I doubt he really cares what people do with their product which they paid for. Personally I only purchase what I want and do not see the need to get something, when someone else wants it more, just to make a quick buck. I got both Vision statues and intend to keep both of them. I am in no way a flipper, but later on down the road if I ever find myself in need, maybe PV will be able to help me out! :D I am a firm beleiver in the philosophy, It is yours, so do with it what you please! JMHO

[IrishBastard]

JS, when you start wondering how much you could get for your kids on the black market you know you've gone too far.

[mike683]

I am not a flipper. I buy the statues that I want for my collection. But even I am tempted when the prices get as high as they have for the Phasing Vision. I think to myself that I could sell the Phasing Vision and get enough money to buy the Solid Vision, Dr. Strange, Namor and Man-thing. Now those are hard choices...

[Tetragrammaton]

If I was Randy I would be keeping 10% of production and putting them on E-Bay myself. :eplus2:

[MrBobDobbs]

While it's presumtuous to make any assumptions, I'd wager that while RB would probably like to have some of that extra $$$ himself, he's probably in favor of anything that keeps the Bowen line's perception as "collectible" going, as it drives interest in future products.

[Ish]

he sold his product he made his profit, the product now belongs to the buyer, and he can smash it if he feel like it, does he get mad because peope are making profit on his product? well if you can't beat them join them, he could keep a few pieces and flip tem later, but i'm sure i'm the last one to think of this. ;) heh RB.

[Collection King 13]

Just read my location! :eplus2:

[Tetragrammaton]

Is that a real place?

[JSA]

bat collector - I was just curious, and hopefully it doesn't hurt to ask a question.

JS :confused:

[Deadpool]

he sold his product he made his profit, the product now belongs to the buyer, and he can smash it if he feel like it, does he get mad because peope are making profit on his product? well if you can't beat them join them, he could keep a few pieces and flip tem later, but i'm sure i'm the last one to think of this. ;) heh RB.

I agree!

[Collection King 13]

Is that a real place?
No... :eplus2: But maybe one day I will buy a town and name it that! :eplus2:

[nolilia]

BD has nothing to do with dolphinology (flipping). They have no control over that. Once the product is out of their warehouse its all in the hands of the collectors.

That's my point.

[bat_collector]

bat collector - I was just curious, and hopefully it doesn't hurt to ask a question.

JS :confused:
I guess enough people are making a stink about this and blaming fliippers for not getting gold bucky, phasing vision, etc.

[Viking28]

If it was me it wouldnt bother me, kind of cool to create something or have created and it be worth something or a true "collectible". Instead of sitting in a warehouse heavy discounted to sale.

[Tao]

When I flip something, the profit always finds its way back into BD hands as i buy new items directly from them, in a virtuous circle of harmony and happiness for all parties.

[JSA]

When I flip something, the profit always finds its way back into BD hands as i buy new items directly from them, in a virtuous circle of harmony and happiness for all parties.
It is Tao then?

JS :)

[Jesse321]

I think he thinks that this creates ALOT of free publicity ... which it does.

[Dj-B13]

If there were no flippers there would be no ebay if there were no ebay alot of use wouldn`t have things in our collection.


very nice, worded it great and very true also :)

[kirthew]

Alright... Going to say this.. might be a surprise to some people here... but...

Randy Bowen is a Flipper.

When they open the vault... they sell pieces not at retail... but above retail... when they sell pieces at a convention... they sell them for the market rate (ebay). When I was in Chicago... the guy infront of me in the Surfer line bought Hulk Mini Bust #8... and I believe the price was 400.00.

I think Bowen could go the way of Moore... and the Shef Bros and start offering some of his prototypes and AP's on ebay... Heck... Hasn't Hard Hero done this?

[mwf6171]

I say we put everyone's name in the hat and have a lottery to see who gets to be a flipper!!! :eplus2:

[Collection King 13]

Alright... Going to say this.. might be a surprise to some people here... but...

Randy Bowen is a Flipper.

When they open the vault... they sell pieces not at retail... but above retail... when they sell pieces at a convention... they sell them for the market rate (ebay). When I was in Chicago... the guy infront of me in the Surfer line bought Hulk Mini Bust #8... and I believe the price was 400.00.

I think Bowen could go the way of Moore... and the Shef Bros and start offering some of his prototypes and AP's on ebay... Heck... Hasn't Hard Hero done this?
You forgot Gold Bucky! The Ultimate Flip!

[JSA]

You forgot Gold Bucky! The Ultimate Flip!

Some (many) here would say the Ultimate Flip OFF! :eplus2: :eplus2: :eplus2:

JS :laugh:

[Collection King 13]

Some (many) here would say the Ultimate Flip OFF! :eplus2:
JS :laugh:
:laugh: True... But go figure a bust that probably cost him around $15 to make (chrome and all) and he just sold 250 of them for $150... Thats $135 profit for each one... So he just made $33,750 on just spending $3,750... The Ultimate Flip.

[mike683]

You forgot Gold Bucky! The Ultimate Flip!

I don't think that Randy was trying to "flip" or capitalize on the reseller market when he set the price for Gold Bucky at $150. In fact he stated that his reason was exactly the opposite - to make the price high enough that only those truly interested would invest in the bust.

However, after living through two of these (Gold Bucky and Chrome Ultron) I have to say that exactly the opposite of what Randy wants is happening.

When the price gets to $150 some of the completist collectors cannot afford that outlay of money and have to abandon completing their collections... whereas the flippers only have to be able to float the $150 until they collect the $300 or more from the reseller market and they still make their $150 profit.

And if a completist collector doesnt happen to get the Gold Bucky in the lottery then they now need to spend $300 instead of perhaps $150 to complete their collection.

The higher prices certainly add to Bowen Designs bottom line (which is not a bad thing - this is a business after all) but do not at all accomplish the goal of making sure that the busts end up in the hands of the collectors that really want them.

[Collection King 13]

I don't think that Randy was trying to "flip" or capitalize on the reseller market when he set the price for Gold Bucky at $150. In fact he stated that his reason was exactly the opposite - to make the price high enough that only those truly interested would invest in the bust.

However, after living through two of these (Gold Bucky and Chrome Ultron) I have to say that exactly the opposite of what Randy wants is happening.

When the price gets to $150 some of the completist collectors cannot afford that outlay of money and have to abandon completing their collections... whereas the flippers only have to be able to float the $150 until they collect the $300 or more from the reseller market and they still make their $150 profit.

And if a completist collector doesnt happen to get the Gold Bucky in the lottery then they now need to spend $300 instead of perhaps $150 to complete their collection.

The higher prices certainly add to Bowen Designs bottom line (which is not a bad thing - this is a business after all) but do not at all accomplish the goal of making sure that the busts end up in the hands of the collectors that really want them.
I do not agree with your first sentance at all in any way.

[Collection King 13]

:laugh: agreed, after that i stoped reading. :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh:

[pmpknface]

It's part of this and EVERY OTHER HOBBY. Nobody cares, and without it 95% of us wouldn't have nearly as many pieces as we do.

Deal with it.

[kirthew]

That 1st sentence is where you stepped in the biggest pile of Bull Sh!t known to man.


I thought this topic was suppose to just be a question answer session... and keep all the negativity out... All it has spawned is more negativity...

Perhaps we all need a vacation from the boards... we all need to be banned for 3 or 4 days to stop the madness...

[Jesse321]

:laugh: agreed, after that i stoped reading. :laugh:I couldn't finish reading it because I couldn't stop laughing beyond that point. :rolleyes2 :laugh:

[Wolverine1]

Perhaps we all need a vacation from the boards... we all need to be banned for 3 or 4 days to stop the madness...
You go first. :laugh: Just kidding kirt.

[Collection King 13]

I thought this topic was suppose to just be a question answer session... and keep all the negativity out... All it has spawned is more negativity...

Perhaps we all need a vacation from the boards... we all need to be banned for 3 or 4 days to stop the madness...
I havent been on in 3 or 4 days... and had about 300 threads to look through... and I stumbled on this one! :eplus2:

[kirthew]

I havent been on in 3 or 4 days... and had about 300 threads to look through... and I stumbled on this one! :eplus2:


Lucky us! :eplus2:

No seriously.. CK... I like ya...

[kirthew]

You go first. :laugh: Just kidding kirt.


Wolvie... you kill me.. I just noticed the santa hat in your Avatar...very cool...

[JSA]

I thought this topic was suppose to just be a question answer session... and keep all the negativity out... All it has spawned is more negativity...

Perhaps we all need a vacation from the boards... we all need to be banned for 3 or 4 days to stop the madness...

Yes, all I did was pose one simple question.
I didn't expect or want any negativity.
Is interesting reading though....... ;)

JS :peoples: :laugh:

[bat_collector]

I thought this topic was suppose to just be a question answer session... and keep all the negativity out... All it has spawned is more negativity...

Perhaps we all need a vacation from the boards... we all need to be banned for 3 or 4 days to stop the madness...
You didn't think a loaded question like this wasn't going to be negative?

[mike683]

:laugh: agreed, after that i stoped reading. :laugh:

Okay.. I'm done. You won't see me posting in these forums anymore.

Have fun group

[Wolverine1]

Wolvie... you kill me.. I just noticed the santa hat in your Avatar...very cool...
I got a NICE friend to do it for me, from the forum. Can't say who, or the person will be bugged! :D

[Deadpool]

You go first. :laugh: Just kidding kirt.

Like the hat W1, maybe you can do something w/ my G-pig! :laugh:

DAMMIT!! I just saw ur reply! :laugh:

[Ish]

Okay.. I'm done. You won't see me posting in these forums anymore.

Have fun group
awwww... don't get like that bro we're just joking around. :)

[Wolverine1]

Okay.. I'm done. You won't see me posting in these forums anymore.

Have fun group
You have been here since Jan. You should know this place by now, you are going to get razzed, but if you take it you will fit in! :laugh:

[Jameshowlett]

While there are probably lot of ways to look at this question, this was my first thought....

Flippers get people talking about BD. In fact, some might argue that all this flipping of exclusives and limited rarities compelled a lot of people to join the BDCC.......

That is exactly what I think. Flippers who join BD and then turn around and sell their pieces on ebay really are HELPING Randy get his product exposure and generally generate a buzz for them.If I were Randy-I would welcome flippers -not get mad because they are keeping them out of the hands of collectors.
After all collectors are the ones buying them. :)

[syzygy]

i'm pretty sure randy doesn't give this issue much thought one way or another. a "flipper" in essence is just another paying customer. why should it make a difference to randy what that person does with his product after they have paid for it fairly, just like everyone else? do Ford or GM care if the person who purchased a vehicle from one of their dealers turns around and sells it for a profit? if anything, this resale promotes their product for free. and i don't want to hear about how a "collectible statue" is any different than a vehicle, DVD player, sweater or livestock. they all operate on the same supply and demand force. i think we are beating a dead horse...

[wizard-comics]

No... :eplus2: But maybe one day I will buy a town and name it that! :eplus2:

nah...you'd flip it before you had the chance to re-name it.... :laugh: :laugh:

[lockford88]

:laugh: True... But go figure a bust that probably cost him around $15 to make (chrome and all) and he just sold 250 of them for $150... Thats $135 profit for each one... So he just made $33,750 on just spending $3,750... The Ultimate Flip.


You couldnt be anymore wrong with the guess on how much it cost him to chrome them. I know for a 100% fact as I have done chroming myself.....Trust me...Randy is not making a fortune off Gold Bucky but believe what you want...

[Ish]

You couldnt be anymore wrong with the guess on how much it cost him to chrome them. I know for a 100% fact as I have done chroming myself.....Trust me...Randy is not making a fortune off Gold Bucky but believe what you want...
what type of chroming have you done?

[lockford88]

iI have had some of my personal Star Wars busts done...I also had some done for friends, and sold some on ebay....it cost 50.00 per bust to chrome...then the actual cost of the bust...thenthe shipping to and from...all together it roughly cost over 100.00....then there is breakage...2 busts i had broke durring the process which is called VACCUM METALIZATION.....I lost a Clone Pilot and a Biker Scout....Just trying to state that people shouldn't state Randy is ripping people off and making off like a bandit...thats not the case at all......

[kirthew]

iI have had some of my personal Star Wars busts done...I also had some done for friends, and sold some on ebay....it cost 50.00 per bust to chrome...then the actual cost of the bust...thenthe shipping to and from...all together it roughly cost over 100.00....then there is breakage...2 busts i had broke durring the process which is called VACCUM METALIZATION.....I lost a Clone Pilot and a Biker Scout....Just trying to state that people shouldn't state Randy is ripping people off and making off like a bandit...thats not the case at all......


Based on this then the silver surfer mini bust should have cost 140 instead of 40. I think that it is alot cheaper to chrome something in China than it is in the USA. I think that CK's numbers are off... I dont think he made 135 dollars profit on each Bucky... but I would say that he probably made 50 to 60 dollars off each one...

[lockford88]

sure....i did individual pieces....randy is doing em in bulk so i am sure he is saving a bit....but its alot more expensive then most think...in reality...who cares ....its a business and he is allowed to make money...if you don't like it...don't buy it...plain and simple....

[Ish]

iI have had some of my personal Star Wars busts done...I also had some done for friends, and sold some on ebay....it cost 50.00 per bust to chrome...then the actual cost of the bust...thenthe shipping to and from...all together it roughly cost over 100.00....then there is breakage...2 busts i had broke durring the process which is called VACCUM METALIZATION.....I lost a Clone Pilot and a Biker Scout....Just trying to state that people shouldn't state Randy is ripping people off and making off like a bandit...thats not the case at all......
i don't think anybody is saying that RB is riping anybody off, that's not what flipping is , i think, as for the cost for chroming, you chrome a few pieces, RB chromed somewhere near 300 pieces, the price would be defenetly less than what you paid.

[JSA]

I've had some items chromed as well and it wasn't too awful expensive,
and mine were only 1-2 items. I'd imgine on a run of 250 of the same
item, and with the business contacts Randy has, it couldn't have been
too much per piece to chrome them. Dirt cheap in fact I'll speculate.

JS

[lockford88]

whatever.....believe what you want...........im done with this topic...too many stubborn simple minded people who don't understand the concept of "business"..........and actually someone was stating that randy was ripping people off....didn't use those exact words but go back and read a few posts back and you will see where this started.....later.....

[Kirk Durfey]

whatever.....believe what you want...........im done with this topic...too many stubborn simple minded people who don't understand the concept of "business"..........and actually someone was stating that randy was ripping people off....didn't use those exact words but go back and read a few posts back and you will see where this started.....later.....
I agree. I got the exact same feeling from reading those posts.

[Ish]

http://www.illuminatingscience.org/wp-content/pancake1_thumb.jpg


:laugh: :laugh:

[Jameshowlett]

I agree. I got the exact same feeling from reading those posts.
So did I. :) I can relate you two.

[JSA]

Wow! This is only the 2nd or 3rd question I've ever posted in the Bowen section,
and I usually stay out, as Bowen isn't my main area of collecting, and there
are usually 20+ new posts every day, so it isn't worth leafing through for me.
Do all the Bowen threads end up with people fighting and stomping away mad like this?
No need for it, as it was just a VERY simple, harmless question. (or so I thought) :rolleyes:

JS :confused:

[Jesse321]

Do all the Bowen threads end up with people fighting and stomping away mad like this?

JS :confused:Only when it's a REALLY GOOD thread. :eplus2: :laugh:

[JSA]

Well good then - I've at least accomplished something I guess. :eplus2:

JS :rolleyes: :confused: :laugh:

[Comicboy]

JS, it's not you. Some topics just always end up like this.

[JSA]

It's not you - it's me! I've heard that line before! :laugh:

Thanks btw comicboy for that lead - I've made contact and
we're in "agressive negotiations" to strike an agreement. :eplus2:

I'll definitely post a thread if things go well. :buttrock:

And now, back to the regularly scheduled Bowen infighting..............

JS :D

[Capt. America]

Well if it wasn't for flippers i wouldn't have some of my statues.And i've done some flipping myself like Bucky.But i dont't think Randy Cares he's getting his money and it just makes more people interested in his product.

[Comicboy]

:laugh: Sweet! They had it still? I figured it would be there, things like that never sell from them. They just sit there and collect dust. Buncha savages in this town. No taste.

[JSA]

Yes, they definitely had it, and it sounds great!
I've extended my offer, and now I wait (im)patiently.............

They said to say hi, and that they hadn't seen you in a while.

JS :D

[speedracer]

I'm going to give my two cents worth..

I know randy cares about flippers..Why??..He wouldn't have put the one per customer limit if he didn't care..Randy wants real collectors to have the pieces and if you decide to flip it then flip your personal piece..

Business is business and I'm sure randy is doing his best to hand these items as close to his collectors as possible..the way i see it around 50% make it to people who keep it and 50% make it to people who flip and sell it to the people who are really passionate to keep it..

Flipping like any other thing has certain pros and cons..

Pro's

- Buzz and collectability of randy's items is "red hot"...
- the desirability goes through the roof

Cons

- A huge number of collectors are left outside the loop unless they pay 4* what it was originally worth to get in..I'm sure many of us have gone into the loop this way and I'm sure nobody really enjoyed forking that amout of dough for something that hasn't come out yet..=)

These are only my opinions and were never meant to offend anybody in this forum..the phasing vision is yours do with it as you please...To those who keep it and admire it for your collection..More power to you..=)

[Comicboy]

They said to say hi, and that they hadn't seen you in a while.

JS :D
Yeah, I think I paid for their new sign with all the stuff I used to get there. I'll have to stop in and say hi.

[darthrobbler]

JS, it's not you. Some topics just always end up like this.Lately all Bowen topics end up like this.

[JSA]

Lately all Bowen topics end up like this.

I'll stick mainly to the "other" and "sculpting" threads then, as it seems a bit off-the-wall
when a reasonable and simple question is posted, for some to get bent outta shape.
I was actually hoping Randy might show up and post something "right from the horses mouth"
as I genuinely am curious about his thoughts on this apparently "touchy" subject.

JS

[speedracer]

I would like to add another question..Just curious about this..

Do you think that phasing vision attracts more collectors to collect bowen or just pushes them away to collect another line such as hard hero..

I just asked because it you were an INTERNATIONAL completist and had to pay up the butt for every exclusive you would be thinking about getting out very soon.

I'm sure there are a lot of local completist that might feel the same way

Do you think ultra low runs attract or thin out the collector base..=)

[risingstar]

After all is said and done (including eBay, purchases through Diamond, and purchases through online distributors who ship overseas), I wonder what the percentage is on average of BD products that end up in International hands...

Overall, my guess is that be 70% of BD product end up in US based hands, 10% Canada, 20% Rest of the World.
Of course, I could be waaaaaaaaay wrong here.

Anybody have a more informed estimate??

[Jesse321]

First and foremost let me restate Phasing Vision IS NOT and exclusive piece ... the way you worded your question sort of implies that it is.

I think anything that raises hype and awareness of a line will only bring in more customers ... if someone who's never heard of Bowen (yeah right) sees this piece or hears about it, they will likely check out other items in the line that might peek thier interest as well.

As for "bad publicity" Madonna has maintined her career based on little more than "bad publicity"

[JSA]

As for "bad publicity" Madonna has maintined her career based on little more than "bad publicity"

And getting naked! :buttrock:

JS :D

[wizard-comics]

I think anytime Bowen has limited busts or a Statue or for that matter a low number, it helps him in the long run....let's face it the majority of the people collect Bowen products because of their potiental value, (not just because they look nice)

same is true with comics, sure there were comic collectors before people thought comics could be valuable, but around the early 70's when people saw the investment potential of comics, that's when the industry really grew....same with bowen...your going to have fans but when you see items on ebay selling well, it puts your mind at ease about buying those items new when they come out.....you need this hype to keep the collecting alive...so it doesn't get boring or mundane


and on a bit of a different note---

I'd like to think that those that missed out on the gold bucky lotto, bought the Phasing Vision so they could flip it to afford a Bucky!

[wizard-comics]

mmmmm Madonna.........that is one hottie over the age of 40

[bat_collector]

I'd like to think that those that missed out on the gold bucky lotto, bought the Phasing Vision so they could flip it to afford a Bucky!
Nah, if I flip the vision I'm getting something else entirely! :buttrock:

[Jesse321]

mmmmm Madonna.........that is one hottie over the age of 40Like her or hate her, she is one SMART business woman ... she's managed to stay on top of her game 3 times longer than other artists with 10 times her talent.

[wizard-comics]

Nah, if I flip the vision I'm getting something else entirely! :buttrock:


ditto....

[speedracer]

First and foremost let me restate Phasing Vision IS NOT and exclusive piece ... the way you worded your question sort of implies that it is.

I think anything that raises hype and awareness of a line will only bring in more customers ... if someone who's never heard of Bowen (yeah right) sees this piece or hears about it, they will likely check out other items in the line that might peek thier interest as well.

As for "bad publicity" Madonna has maintined her career based on little more than "bad publicity"

It may not be exclusive to collectors in the us but once the bowen site is the only one selling it's already exclusive only to US based collectors..which is the same boat to all international buyers..=)..I do agree though that the hype brings in more collectors and twice as many flippers..It's all good..=)

[jdonoho]

If I was Randy I would be keeping 10% of production and putting them on E-Bay myself. :eplus2:

I haven't read through all of this thread, but I wonder if there are things in the licensing agreements that won't allow this type of thing? It can also be bad for manufacturers to do such a thing because it can give them a bad reputation among people that feel slighted (whether right or wrong). Better from a reputation standpoint to just sell the all for the the same price across the board. If someone else later flips...they can be hated upon...not the manufacturer.

Besides...they sell these things at a profit anyway or they wouldn't stay in business...so you can bet $$$wise he's still happy anyway.

I'll tell you this also about Ebay...if no Ebay...maybe not as many flippers, but you also wouldn't get things so cheap when products first ship and there is a flood. Just my opinion of course.

[Tetragrammaton]

Just to perfectly clear, I do not for a second think this is beng done, I just said I would do it. :eplus2:

[Tao]

Nah, if I flip the vision I'm getting something else entirely! :buttrock:

You can buy several something else's for what that could go for if this fervor doesn't calm down.

[Ish]

Just to perfectly clear, I do not for a second think this is beng done, I just said I would do it. :eplus2:
hey poeple are talking about business around here, imo that is a smart bussiness move, to work both markets can't be mad at him for that, like you i'd do it too. :buttrock:

[StatueItis]

:laugh: True... But go figure a bust that probably cost him around $15 to make (chrome and all) and he just sold 250 of them for $150... Thats $135 profit for each one... So he just made $33,750 on just spending $3,750... The Ultimate Flip.

In the Olympics that would have scored a 10 for the perfect "double" flip.

[bat_collector]

You can buy several something else's for what that could go for if this fervor doesn't calm down.
exactly :thumbs2:

[nolilia]

Where Is The Love???