to the people that cancelled thier kong orders from danny...

[Wooktroop]

...at comicstatues.com becasue of the tower sale. YOU SUCK! that will be the last time i do you a favor. :mad:

[oxbeard]

I guess this is why the thread went MIA.

Never really considered people cancelling preorders, I thought the only things they had on sale were in stock items.

[Zurbaran1]

I posted in that thread as well never thinking that it could be something that would come back and bite D Rod. Just not right.

[Bullseye]

I have the big one ordered through Danny:) Can't wait to get this one.

[Tattoo-S]

I posted in that thread as well never thinking that it could be something that would come back and bite D Rod. Just not right.
As much as I like to save $$ I agree, you give your word, you stand by it! Good sales come and go....Loyalty always earns good Karma! Shame on those of you who cancelled and lost points for reliability, and trust :(

[cap70]

Yup, that's bad. Like most people that replied here, I also ordered from Tower, but I had nothing ordered with Danny, so I'm clean. Very clean.

[leks]

but I had nothing ordered with Danny
Sounds like a permanent ban to me :eplus2: :laugh:

[Jack Burton]

That sucks. I guess this is as good a reason as any not to allow ads for stores.

[cap70]

Sounds like a permanent ban to me :eplus2: :laugh:

Better have nothing ordered, than to cancel the pre-orders, like YOU did :eplus2:

[Superhero]

I think we should support Danny as much as anyone. On the other hand, we are statue collectors and, if we are to exchange statue collector information, a significant part of which is where to buy statues then I have to believe a policy that restricts the free flow of this information defeats one of the main purposes for statue collectors to gather and exchange information.

I certainly mean NO disrespect to Danny but he is a merchant and he must compete in the marketplace like all other merchants. Accordingly, there will be times when he has stuff cheaper for sale and times when he does not. I think it is an unnecessary form of censorship to prohibit the discussion of where and when great deals can be found on statues. On the other hand, this is his board and he gets to make the rules but I don't have to like them. :)

Oh and just so no one accuses me, I did not order any King Kong stuff and I have not intention of ordering any from any source.

[Tattoo-S]

I think we should support Danny as much as anyone. On the other hand, we are statue collectors and, if we are to exchange statue collector information, a significant part of which is where to buy statues then I have to believe a policy that restricts the free flow of this information defeats one of the main purposes for statue collectors to gather and exchange information.

I certainly mean to disrespect to Danny but he is a merchant and he must compete in the marketplace like all other merchants. Accordingly, there will be times when he has stuff cheaper for sale and times when he does not. I think it is an unnecessary form of censorship to prohibit the discussion of where and when great deals can be found on statues. On the other hand, this is his board and he gets to make the rules but I don't have to like them. :)

Oh and just so no one accuses me, I did not order any King Kong stuff and I have not intention of ordering any from any source.


Good points that no one is arguing....point is, is your going to shop around, shop around.......lets not make "definate/uncertain" plans to allow a party to go the extra mile for you only to kick them in the teeth once the pieces fall in place so you can save a few $$, anyone here considering that he may have to eat the $$ you saved as a result of your pre-order. I used to be in this industry, LMTY, there is little more frustrating than trying to please someone who refuses to be pleased......that being said, mos times you get less when you pay less......and I am not talking about $$!

P.S. I am confused do you mean him disrespect, or NOT mean him disrespect?

[P1X4R]

yeah, it's really uncool to cancel on pre-orders from comicstatues.com. i like the fact that he doesn't charge up front or take deposits. we pay when the items are ready to ship. it's been a crazy month with the bowen statues/busts coming all at us.. what does danny do to help out? he gives us a free bust(s)! the guy is a class act! we get great discounts and free shipping with some of the items! plus, i know there's going to be some cool "stuff" coming up. for me this is a great place to read about the latest happenings. i'm sure we'd all be sad if we didn't have this great forum to come to.

[leks]

Better have nothing ordered, than to cancel the pre-orders, like YOU did :eplus2:

For the record I cancelled nothing ;)

[lord odin]

I`ve never cancelled a pre-order I wait for a good deal then I stick to it.
I only shop at 2-3 places so it`s easier for me to choose which vendor i`m going with.

[Tetragrammaton]

While price will always be important to me, I do tend to favor those vendors I have dealt with beofre and who have provided good service and were there for me when a problem occured.

This is often worth far more than saving 10% on a purchase.

[lord odin]

While price will always be important to me, I do tend to favor those vendors I have dealt with beofre and who have provided good service and were there for me when a problem occured.

This is often worth far more than saving 10% on a purchase.
I agree .

[rychehitman]

That just plain sucks that people did that! I can see saving a buck or two, but isnt pre-ordering from Danny w/free shipping over a years time CHEAPER than jumping on a once or twice a year sale and burning a bridge?

I wish Danny would out these people and shame them! Sometimes he is TOO nice of a guy and gets burned, IMO!

[Tattoo-S]

That just plain sucks that people did that! I can see saving a buck or two, but isnt pre-ordering from Danny w/free shipping over a years time CHEAPER than jumping on a once or twice a year sale and burning a bridge?

I wish Danny would out these people and shame them! Sometimes he is TOO nice of a guy and gets burned, IMO!
Actually by definition, getting burned is what qualifies people for being too nice.
Someone will always take advantages, thats too bad. What comes around goes around, my dad always says this, in 25 years time, I have seen some sweet unplotted revenge born of nothing but bad Karma. :eplus2:

[cap70]

Sometimes he is TOO nice of a guy and gets burned, IMO!

WAAAY too nice, and I told this to him already!

[Gruson]

Danny is a great guy. I had to cancel some LOTR items...because I no longer collect that line now (weta).

I look forward to buying the 1/4 LOTR line from Danny though.

[Ghost]

Yup, that's bad. Like most people that replied here, I also ordered from Tower, but I had nothing ordered with Danny, so I'm clean. Very clean.


Same here! Only I mean just cause the mini Kong vs. Rex was all I could afford!!!

[JSA]

I've not had anything on order from Danny, BUT I still do have my V-Rex and Raptor
Busts on order with Bob at Fireside. I'm still keeping those on order, as I gave my
word when placing the order, so it should be kept.

Having said that though - I do wish that sale information weren't censored here.
It is a great service to inform others of where to get something for a good or sale
price, and to not be able to help out boardmembers is counter-productive to the
board I believe. I very much appreciate sale or deal information when it is posted.

JS

[Bullseye]

Yup, that's bad. Like most people that replied here, I also ordered from Tower, but I had nothing ordered with Danny, so I'm clean. Very clean.

What do you mean "Your Clean" i can smell you from here. :eplus2:

[cap70]

What do you mean "Your Clean" i can smell you from here. :eplus2:

This is serious subject, Bulls. No place for your unfunny jokes .
:eplus2: :)

[Bullseye]

This is serious subject, Bulls. No place for your unfunny jokes .
:eplus2: :)

:laugh: Theres always room for good humor just not yours. :eplus2:

[cap70]

:laugh: Theres always room for good humor just not yours. :eplus2:

LOL, when is good and funny! :eplus2:

[Bullseye]

Okay your Zurb pics are a blast. Continue on dear sir.:)

[cap70]

Okay your Zurb pics are a blast. Continue on dear sir.:)

No more Zurb pictures, sorry :(

...until next year! :laugh:

[Superhero]

Good points that no one is arguing....point is, is your going to shop around, shop around.......lets not make "definate/uncertain" plans to allow a party to go the extra mile for you only to kick them in the teeth once the pieces fall in place so you can save a few $$, anyone here considering that he may have to eat the $$ you saved as a result of your pre-order. I used to be in this industry, LMTY, there is little more frustrating than trying to please someone who refuses to be pleased......that being said, mos times you get less when you pay less......and I am not talking about $$!

P.S. I am confused do you mean him disrespect, or NOT mean him disrespect?

Absolutely NO disrepect--fast fingers hit "t" instead of "n"

[boondocksaint]

i guess we'll never know who did it right?

[Ish]

i guess we'll never know who did it right?
not what i heard. :eplus2: :eplus2:

[ickwinzs]

hope Danny posts thier names, serve them right now he has stock that he has to sit on, which is crap!

[Tetragrammaton]

Is this the type of statue that you can expect to move quickly? If so, it isn't too bad.

[P1X4R]

folks, let's not make this a witch hunt.

[Tetragrammaton]

http://tinypic.com/ienlar.jpg

[madjazz]

Danny is does good by customers by only charging when product arrives (for PayPal option). Maybe he should consider 20% down non-refundable.

[d rod]

Superhero & JSauctionservice: What you both fail to realize that even though you are looking out for your best interest, it is at my expense. Does that make it right? I mentioned to Wook why I moved his thread off the board. What some of you don't seem to understand is that this is a publicly viewed forum. That's it. I run this forum so fans can enjoy talking and meeting sculptors they are fans of. I'm not running this forum so I can loose business. I don't ask you to buy from me but at the same time, I'm not going to loose business because of you. Yes, it would be great to be able to swap stories of who sells what and for what price. I'm sorry, but that will not happen here. Heck, it's to your benefit that I make money. It keeps the forum running. I don't see Tower or anyone else doing this for you. Do you have any idea the difficulty that there is to have this many manufacturers and sculptors interact in a forum? I don't think you see this in any other industry or any other forum. I think I give a lot back to my clients. Thanks to them, this forum exists. Thanks to friends contacts as well as mine, many cool artists are here. You can't have everything so enjoy what you do get. I know neither of you means disrespect but needless to say you are looking out for your best interest and it can't always be that way. You want to do what you want? How about I create a section where you can post any info you want but it costs you $20 a month just to be able to see or post in it. Would that be fair? It would be liking charging for advertising. Or would that be unfair because now one has to actually pay for something. You see, it's easy to ask for more when it's no sweat off your back. Many of you live on this forum. This forum has become part of your daily life. What would it cost you to find an alternate source? What would you spend hanging out with these people in a pub or restaurant? Everything cannot be free. I don't mind doing everything I can for this forum but losing business, I will not. If anyone wants to see deals, go to sideshowfreaks or rebelscum or any other forum.
I've never wanted to rant about this but I guess I'm going to now. As dealers, we are lucky when make a 10% profit when it's all said and done. Do the math. How many busts do you think we need to sell to make any kind of money? Manufacturers on the other hand can make 300-500% profit and that doesn't include direct sales which you can double that. So you think it doesn't bug us when an order is not paid for? I've always pushed members to buy from an lcs or stores like mine but at the same time, I'm not going to push business their way especially when the products are below wholesale. If they can't sell the product, then don't buy it. I'm not going to help them clear it out especially if it means I loose a sale. I'm sorry that a few of you feel this is unfair but that's the way it is.

[The General]

That's mad grimey. Dead beat bastiches. :mad:

[boondocksaint]

yeah man...support the cause dont make it lose money!
that just sux!

[speedracer]

You give your word you follow through..what some people don't understand is when you give your word it starts the ball rolling...the person orders from you and commits to the manufacturer for your order...You cancell yours the retailer cannot cancel his...he gets stuck and at 10% profit thats a real bad place to be in..=(....More power to you danny..=)

[leks]

One thing that is not being mentioned I remember Drod taking action against this by mentioning he would be charging a cancellation fee somewhere along the line, is that not in effect or do people disregard this?

[lord odin]

One thing that is not being mentioned I remember Drod taking action against this by mentioning he would be charging a cancellation fee somewhere along the line, is that not in effect or do people disregard this?
That`s what the place I order from does.

[oxbeard]

That`s what the place I order from does.

Very few places don't do that actually. Especially with the smaller places where we can get the best deals. I definitely think it is a justified move too. These guys are really sticking there necks out there to help us save $$$

[lord odin]

Very few places don't do that actually. Especially with the smaller places where we can get the best deals. I definitely think it is a justified move too. These guys are really sticking there necks out there to help us save $$$
Dcbs charges 25% cancel/restocking fee.

[leks]

I remember I was giving fireside a try for the first time and the second order (period of a week or so) I made suddenly it was mentioned they were charging cancellation fees, I had made the order without realizing this. Usually I just check the faq one time before ordering and thats that. So yeh I kinda grinded my teeth at the time, if its possible to cancel without consequence Ill take it, if not Ill accept that np. Just caught me off guard at the moment also it was something I was not sure I really wanted to end up with :D

[Bullseye]

SS charge a cancellation fee on the flexipay options.

[risingstar]

Some companies get their product much later than others. During these waiting periods, you can't help but wonder if your distributor was allocated.

In my 4 year relationship with my distributor and after about 150 different items, I've only been allocated twice. Once for the Scarlet Witch statue (of all things!) and a Master Replicas Han (New Hope) Blaster.

Cancelling orders is usually due to the buyer's tendency to spend more than they can afford. That is just not cool. However, cancelling because you believe you have an unreliable or unprofessional distributor is another issue entirely.

[Jerseydevil]

I effed up myself and for that I'd like to apologize to Danny. I posted that Tower had something for sale, not realizing that Danny still carried that item, and for that I am sorry. :banghead:

Danny has been without a doubt the best online statue vendor I've ever dealt with. He doesn't ask for the cash up front, gives you discounts and provides us with a cool place to hang out. And IMO, he has every right to remove a thread which potentially affects his business. And again, let's keep in mind that if it hurts his business, it hurts this forum.

I know that we're all collectors here and we'd like to save some bucks, but people fail to realize that for all the inventory he carries, multiple cancellations of pre-ordered items really hits him in the wallet. And further, I hope people continue to order from him. With the forum discount, he's almost always the cheapest vendor, especially if you pre-order. Yet I'm still surprised that people will still order from other sites just because Danny might be a lousy $1-$5 bucks higher on a $300 statue. That's just bull$hit. My two cents...

[Pogo4321]

I remember I was giving fireside a try for the first time and the second order (period of a week or so) I made suddenly it was mentioned they were charging cancellation fees, I had made the order without realizing this. Usually I just check the faq one time before ordering and thats that. So yeh I kinda grinded my teeth at the time, if its possible to cancel without consequence Ill take it, if not Ill accept that np. Just caught me off guard at the moment also it was something I was not sure I really wanted to end up with :D

Why would you order or preorder something you're not sure you want (or can afford)?

[MONSTER]

Why would you order or preorder something you're not sure you want (or can afford)?

I think some people get caught up in the heat of the moment and than after a few months something new comes out that catches their eye.

Its no excuse but I think this is what is happening.

[leks]

Why would you order or preorder something you're not sure you want (or can afford)?

I can afford anything Ive preordered or ordered so thats not the issue. It's like with the SS exclusives you put down your order cause you anticipate you really want it or else you could end up paying double, but the final pics decide if you still are as excited and if you want to keep the order on or even if it would be a waste or your money.

[jlcmsu]

Superhero & JSauctionservice: What you both fail to realize that even though you are looking out for your best interest, it is at my expense.

But by not allowing members to talk about deals that may hel YOUR members you are hurting them at YOUR exspense. Seems like a double standard to me.

Does that make it right?

I'll bounce this right back at ya.

What some of you don't seem to understand is that this is a publicly viewed forum.

Exactly! So the public should be able to talk about whatever deals are out their. Otherwise it's a public forum without freedom of speech.

I run this forum so fans can enjoy talking and meeting sculptors they are fans of.

Which is why I started hanging around here. Something, I plan on still doing even after this post.

I'm not running this forum so I can loose business.

I thought you just said you where running this forum so fans could meet sculptors they have been fans of for years. That's what it should be about not the bottom line IMO.

I don't ask you to buy from me but at the same time, I'm not going to loose business because of you.

Yes, you are. Your saying the only sales, deals, etc that will be talked about here are mine. So if some people aren't smart enough to go searching the only place they will buy from if they are members here are from you. So you are forcing them to buy just from you unless someone says, "Hey you can get "A" statue from "B" store for $10 bucks cheaper."

Yes, it would be great to be able to swap stories of who sells what and for what price. I'm sorry, but that will not happen here.

Yeah, that's what makes other forums pretty damn cool is that we can find deals that help each other out. As far as that not happening here well that sounds a lot like censorship to me stuff you used to see years ago. ;)

You can't have everything so enjoy what you do get. I know neither of you means disrespect but needless to say you are looking out for your best interest and it can't always be that way.

Well, no offense but the same could be said in reverse right back at ya.

I don't mind doing everything I can for this forum but losing business, I will not. If anyone wants to see deals, go to sideshowfreaks or rebelscum or any other forum.

Which is why I personally spend more of my time at SSF. I can chat with lots of cool people who are also members here, but I also can see deals that save me the most money. I then also use the affiliate links at SSF to help the owner of that board for being so cool about letting other deals be talked about. Something that this board might want to think long and hard about.

I've always pushed members to buy from an lcs or stores like mine but at the same time, I'm not going to push business their way especially when the products are below wholesale. If they can't sell the product, then don't buy it. I'm not going to help them clear it out especially if it means I loose a sale. I'm sorry that a few of you feel this is unfair but that's the way it is.

Well, if your not careful by not allowing people to talk about deals at all your going to do just that push people to buy from others. I've never bought from you but after reading your post I don't plan on it at all now. The way that posts comes across would keep me from doing it even if you where $5-$10 bucks cheaper than the next guy. If your having a hard time selling all the stuff you buy then maybe taking some of your own advice might be a good idea. Don't buy more than you can sell.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean or disrespectful at all.

Danny has been without a doubt the best online statue vendor I've ever dealt with. He doesn't ask for the cash up front, gives you discounts and provides us with a cool place to hang out. And IMO, he has every right to remove a thread which potentially affects his business. And again, let's keep in mind that if it hurts his business, it hurts this forum.

I know of a lot of cool boards that allow you to talk about deals and also allow you to talk to lots of cool people with companies, members, etc. They don't seem to mind.

I know that we're all collectors here and we'd like to save some bucks, but people fail to realize that for all the inventory he carries, multiple cancellations of pre-ordered items really hits him in the wallet. And further, I hope people continue to order from him. With the forum discount, he's almost always the cheapest vendor, especially if you pre-order. Yet I'm still surprised that people will still order from other sites just because Danny might be a lousy $1-$5 bucks higher on a $300 statue. That's just bull$hit. My two cents...

Well, when you go into business you have to be prepared for that and willing to accept that. Otherwise don't go into business for yourself as I was told countless times by my business professors. Well, no offense to you but since it's MY money I'll save that $1-5 or more and use it on the next piece. Telling someone they should just pay more because of a forum is bull$hit IMO.

Why would you order or preorder something you're not sure you want (or can afford)?

Sometimes, money doesn't work out or events in a persons life cause problems. That's of course on top of the fact that sometime people just change as the wind blows. For me I hate having to axe orders especially from one dealer in particular but he understands that for me just being out of college and having to fight my own way things get messy. I axed a few orders a while back cause I needed to get more in line with my $$$ but I reorderd the items when things where calmer. Cancelations happen.

[MONSTER]

Man this subject keeps getting more and more interesting.

[galactus]

But by not allowing members to talk about deals that may help YOUR members you are hurting them at YOUR exspense. Seems like a double standard to me....

First off, if you don't like the rules here, leave. We're not forcing you to stay.

Second, the is no double standard here, it is only Drod's standard. HIS house, HIS rules. Regardless of the fact that this forum is AVAILABLE to the public, it is a PRIVATELY owned forum. Drod ALLOWS us to use up his bandwidth, time, and money to have a place to talk about stuff. I would NEVER think to come into your house and discuss topics which you think are inappropriate.
So, BECAUSE this is Drod's place, BECAUSE it is HIS dime which pays for everything, and BECAUSE he is the SOLE reason that this place is even here, HE is the ONLY person who can arbitrate what is proper and not proper to discuss.

So, after saying that, I suggest you refer back to my first point. If YOU don't like what the rules are, YOU are not required to stay. There are plenty of people who are more than willing to live by the rules and have fun here.

[d rod]

actually, he doesn't seem to like our rules so he can stay on the other cool forums. no need for him to be here.

[Thing]

Well said BIg G...

[elwood49]

Exactly! So the public should be able to talk about whatever deals are out their. Otherwise it's a public forum without freedom of speech.


I'd just like to step in here to add one thing. People keep bringing up the "free speech" argument, and this is a common misconception.

Freedom of speech ONLY applies against the government. Danny can let you say or not say whatever the hell he wants, since this is his private forum.

Why do you think John Rocker got suspended for his comments about the 7 train in NY? It's because, as Danny said, you just can't go around saying whatever you want (well you can, but there are consequences).

If I hear "But I have my Freedom of Speech" on this board one more time, I'm going to :puke2:

If you want your freedom of speech to dispute the war in Iraq, then go right ahead. If you want to post whatever you want on the StatueForum, then you are sorely mistaken.

[rychehitman]

Hey Drod...

why DO you provide this forum? When I read some of these threads I just shake my head and wonder what is in it for you at this point? Seems like a simple concept....we are in your backyard...what you say, goes!

My only point of frustration is that the rules are sometimes made up on the fly, and arent clear for all to know without question. Grey areas suck as a whole, but sometimes they cannot be helped.

[beav]

hey if you order something then you order it. And this comment:


Well, when you go into business you have to be prepared for that and willing to accept that. Otherwise don't go into business for yourself as I was told countless times by my business professors. Well, no offense to you but since it's MY money I'll save that $1-5 or more and use it on the next piece. Telling someone they should just pay more because of a forum is bull$hit IMO.

Is a bunch of crap.....this is why it's called pre-orders. This helps a business determine it's orders on a certain product so that it can fill its customers needs. It would be far different if Drod was over ordering stuff and pissed cause he had to sit on it. This is not the case. I hate to say it but I think the time of a 25% non-rufundable deposit is in order. Even on a $300 statue that would only require $75 down. And if you don't want to do a non-refundable deposit then make it so that you don't reimburse the canceled order until the product comes out. I have a tiered deposit system for all large orders at my store cause I can't eat 2 statues let alone 50. People are taking advantage of Drods no deposit required deal. They figure they got a statue being held for them while they search for a lower price. And of course on the A number one topic, Drod's Forum, Drod's Rules.

[risingstar]

Freedom of speech ONLY applies against the government.



You must be joking. LOL

[risingstar]

My piece on cancelling...

My distributor would fry my a$$ if I screwed him over with a string of cancellations... LOL

Unless I had an amazing excuse, the first thing he would do is cancel the rest of my orders and make me fend for myself to get whatever else I had coming.

Once my distributor gets his upcoming releases (usually a week or two in advance), he passes everything through his customers' credit cards. He doesn't believe in IOUs. While that might seem tough and may even cost his some customers, he also gets relieved of most headaches in the process.

[elwood49]

You must be joking. LOL

Nope, and thanks for illustrating my point.

[JSA]

D-Rod - I'd just gone shopping on ComicStatues and it said this:

When ordering Pre-Ordered items your credit card will be charged within 3 weeks.
All canceled orders will be subject to a 15% restocking fee. This policy also includes pre-orders.
Pre-orders release dates are not guaranteed, subject to change by manufacturer.
In stock items will be held when ordered with pre-orders since shipping is calculated as combined.
If you want seperate shipping, order seperately. Thank you!

Did you just start that policy, or has it been in effect for a while now? That should hopefully
take care of pre-order cancellations, or at least get you something out of it if somebody
does still choose to cancel their order or pre-order. Most places have this policy, and
I believe it is a very good idea so a seller isn't left holding the bag.

JS :confused:

[madjazz]

You must be joking. LOL
He's not joking. In a country like ours with the freedoms we have, I can't believe how many people do not understand them. Freedom of Speech gives us the right to civilized discourse that is not in agreement with the sitting Government.

If you stand up in the middle of a speech by a politician and start being a nuisance, you'll have your @ss thrown out on the street. That's not civilized. If you printed up your greivances on a pamphlet and handed them out to everyone as they exited that same speech, there is no problem with that.

You don't have the right to say what you want, whenever you want. You certainly don't have the right to make people listen to it either.

[risingstar]

He's not joking. In a country like ours with the freedoms we have, I can't believe how many people do not understand them. Freedom of Speech gives us the right to civilized discourse that is not in agreement with the sitting Government.

If you stand up in the middle of a speech by a politician and start being a nuisance, you'll have your @ss thrown out on the street. That's not civilized. If you printed up your greivances on a pamphlet and handed them out to everyone as they exited that same speech, there is no problem with that.

You don't have the right to say what you want, whenever you want. You certainly don't have the right to make people listen to it either.


You guys seem to have taken some liberty in assuming what I meant by "you must be joking". Are you a clairvoyant?

Elwood's comment struck me as very black and and white. The very nature of "freedom of speech" is in constant flux, even among individual people. It's boundaries change with time. What is politically correct today may not be tomorrow. What could get you arrested today may get you elected as President tomorrow.

While we could debate this point all day and ultimately agree to disagree, my point was that not every matter that has to do with exercising one's freedom of speech has to do with the all-powerful and all-seeing government. This isn't the X-files.

Furthermore, freedom of speech is not equal among people either. Some might even argue that men and women do not have the same access to freedom of speech. Others might say that experience and age grants you a prefential regard as well. Sometimes, it all depends on who says things too. No one would argue that some poeple are more influencial than others. Famous people get away with saying and doing things that would easily land the regular-joe in all sorts of trouble. Some might say the opposite and argue that famous people are more scrutized because they're worth suing for slander for millions of dollars. Freedom of speech is not a constant. While I would like to believe that the intent has always been for everyone to have equal access to freedoms of speech, history has shown this to not necessarily be the case.

MadJ, in a perfect world principal, I agree with your post, however, it does not consider a number of variables. As an aside, where did I even imply that I didn't comprehend or appreciate the basic elements of the idea of freedom of speech?

MadJ, as a courtesy, next time please ask me what I mean instead of going off on some haphazard monologue.

[madjazz]

Risingstar - You know I love you, buddy. I'm right there with you on Aragorn/Black Knight (and I hope you are showing no ill effects from your hunger strike :) ).

I do disagree with you on the point "not every matter that has to do with exercising one's freedom of speech has to do with the all-powerful and all-seeing government". Actually as defined in the Constitution, it does.

If it makes you feel any better, your post was the excuse for my post. There are a bunch of people who think they have the right to tell Drod what they can and cannot do and they are oh so very wrong.

Keep up the hunger strike and I'll hope we end up with a Black Knight/Valkyrie Change-O-Rider!

[speedracer]

The way i look at it..Drod and the mods bend over backwards to welcome artists and especially maufacturers like sideshow and bowen designs to join this forum..If it werent for all the sculptors and manufacturers here..I could really care less about this forum...But since this is the only place i can see Mat falls, randy bowen, cleary, viggianno, cipriano, shifletts, andy and sooooo much more great talents post I keep my collector grubby computer glued to this forum most of the time...This is all because of the effort of DROD and the senior members effort..This is just like a party in Drods house and he invited all the artists and us to join so we can share ideas..Since this is drods house, We follow drods rules....If we don't follow drods and the mods rules we get penalized...we are given priveliges NOT rights..=)

Just my two cents..I enjoy this place a lot and i hope drod keeps it going inspite of all the arguments..More power danny and the mods..=)

[risingstar]

Risingstar - You know I love you, buddy. I'm right there with you on Aragorn/Black Knight (and I hope you are showing no ill effects from your hunger strike :) ).

I do disagree with you on the point "not every matter that has to do with exercising one's freedom of speech has to do with the all-powerful and all-seeing government". Actually as defined in the Constitution, it does.

If it makes you feel any better, your post was the excuse for my post. There are a bunch of people who think they have the right to tell Drod what they can and cannot do and they are oh so very wrong.

Keep up the hunger strike and I'll hope we end up with a Black Knight/Valkyrie Change-O-Rider!


My hunger strike will show no ill effects...
LOL.

If you (or Drod, just to use as an example) were to hear the same thought or opinion from two diffrent people, would the reaction be the same? Before you go into "is this about the secret conclave of 12 or whatever", it's not. My point isn't so much about recognizing how the constitution defines the act of exercising one's freedom of speech as much as it is to point out that not everyone has the same access or influence with their use of it. That's my major point. Freedom of speech is tied to individual power. Power is not shared equally. Is this so inconceivable?

We could recite the constitution until the cows come home. We don't all have equal access even if the constitution says we should. It's an illusion. It's a lofty goal we can never achieve. My post was in response to Elwood's comment about the government not this Forum. Believe it or not, I can actually distinguish between the two. :)

As an aside... When I was in grad school, I read this great study. The participants were shown a series of slides that featured pictures of different people from various cultures, age, gender, and so on. They were asked a series of questions like "what do you think they do", "would you be their friend", "could you see this person commiting a crime" and various other general questions. The objective of this design was to explore people's preconceived notions of others based on appearance...

You would be amazed at what some of the participants believed attractive and unattractive people do for a living. I could get into cultural variances, gender biases, and so on but you strike me as someone with a good head on your shoulders. I know you get the point... All this to say that power is not equally shared among people. Regardless of what it says in the constitution, the reality is that this power is linked to one's access and influence with their freedom of speech.

[madjazz]

I'm all for a difference of opinion. When it occurs between 2 people who first and foremost respect each other, it can be a lot of fun.

Freedom of Speech is not about access. It is about not getting whisked away in the middle of the night to never be seen again. Noone is owed access.

[chasethedragon]

Pardon my intrusion, but you guys (MadJazz and RisingStar) are making perectly good arguments that don't really seem to be responsive to each other. Mad is correct, as I'm sure you know Rising, that the Constitution only protects individual speech from censure by the federal government, and by extension, state and local governments, as well. This means that every American has the right to protest the situation in Iraq or whatever without fear of being arrested or otherwise persecuted by government. Of course there may be limitations of time and location, which undercut this right to an extent.

The Constitution absolutely does NOT prevent any other entity, human or corporate, from censuring an individual's speech. Try standing up on the assembly line at Raytheon to protest Iraq. You'd be fired and removed from the premises before you can take a second breath. The Constitution offers no protection in that situation.

Rising, what you are talking about is something else entirely. Access to media and other avenues to express an opinion are clearly NOT equal as you state. But the Constitution guarantees only the right to speak, not a forum to speak in or an audience to speak to. If your point ultimately is that we do not live in a true democracy, then point taken, but that does not arise out of the First Amendement.

So, to the point, follow DRod's rules or get the h-e-l-l out. His house, his rules.

[Pogo4321]

Pardon my intrusion, but you guys (MadJazz and RisingStar) are making perectly good arguments that don't really seem to be responsive to each other. Mad is correct, as I'm sure you know Rising, that the Constitution only protects individual speech from censure by the federal government, and by extension, state and local governments, as well. This means that every American has the right to protest the situation in Iraq or whatever without fear of being arrested or otherwise persecuted by government. Of course there may be limitations of time and location, which undercut this right to an extent.

The Constitution absolutely does NOT prevent any other entity, human or corporate, from censuring an individual's speech. Try standing up on the assembly line at Raytheon to protest Iraq. You'd be fired and removed from the premises before you can take a second breath. The Constitution offers no protection in that situation.

Rising, what you are talking about is something else entirely. Access to media and other avenues to express an opinion are clearly NOT equal as you state. But the Constitution guarantees only the right to speak, not a forum to speak in or an audience to speak to. If your point ultimately is that we do not live in a true democracy, then point taken, but that does not arise out of the First Amendement.

So, to the point, follow DRod's rules or get the h-e-l-l out. His house, his rules.


Yeah, actually the company can't censure him. They may be allowed to fire him (and i'm not convinced they'd prevail in the ensuing wrongful termination suit). But if he wants to hang out on the street and criticize the company it can't do a single legal thing about it unless they can prove damage. This is the difference. The only limit on speech is whether or not it is harmful and can be proven to be so. Obviously forums like this fall into a bit of a gray area. We all knew this is a moderated forum supported by business, so we should expect a certain level of censorship. Which I have no problem with. As far as I'm concerned this is private property we are graciously allowed to use as we will within limitations.

[Tattoo-S]

I must be dense! :o I am having difficulties understanding why people are feeling so offended. This is not a hard sell or buy for that matter.
The site (or D rod) in general is allowing all of us the "freedom" of discussion and input. They are NOT giving us choices, or asking our opinions! However, by allowing us discussion of the "subject" matter, we are empowering ouselves to offer them up. No matter what happens the ultimate decisions will be set without any approval from us.
The only choices we will have are the SAME ones we have NOW! Either follow the rules or find yourself excluded. Simple points of fact! If your having troubles wraping your head around this, try letting somethings go, perhaps the fog will lift.

Agree to disagree, and lets all move forward from her. :)

There have been some great commentaries and rebuttles, but the thing is, things can't change until people do!

[Jerseydevil]

First off, if you don't like the rules here, leave. We're not forcing you to stay.

Second, the is no double standard here, it is only Drod's standard. HIS house, HIS rules. Regardless of the fact that this forum is AVAILABLE to the public, it is a PRIVATELY owned forum. Drod ALLOWS us to use up his bandwidth, time, and money to have a place to talk about stuff. I would NEVER think to come into your house and discuss topics which you think are inappropriate.
So, BECAUSE this is Drod's place, BECAUSE it is HIS dime which pays for everything, and BECAUSE he is the SOLE reason that this place is even here, HE is the ONLY person who can arbitrate what is proper and not proper to discuss.

So, after saying that, I suggest you refer back to my first point. If YOU don't like what the rules are, YOU are not required to stay. There are plenty of people who are more than willing to live by the rules and have fun here.
Amen, Big G, Amen. :buttrock:

[Kirk Durfey]

When the Christmas cash crunch is over, I'll check out Danny's site and order some Kong stuff. While I understand that sometimes circumstances require cancelling a pre-order, I think Danny should require a large, non-refundable deposit on all pre-orders...

[madjazz]

ChasetheDragon - Thanks for understanding my point exactly.

Risingstar is OK in my book, because he is a forum member with discerning tastes. I fully back his Aragorn/Black Knight hunger strike and hope that it ends up including a Valkyrie Change-O-Rider. :)

PS - Thanks Drod for all you do. Most of us know the difference between right and wrong. If I've made a commitment to my LCS for a pre-order, I keep my commitment no matter what deals I find on the same thing in the mean time. People owe you the same respect. To do otherwise is just wrong.

[overkill]

Man, talk about redundant.

[Sniper]

I wish Danny would out these people and shame them! Sometimes he is TOO nice of a guy and gets burned, IMO!

He is too much of a stand up guy to do that. Please there was a member that cancelled an order because he was getting it cheaper, it was a $5 difference I believe. I am not surprised :rolleyes2

[money3]

He is too much of a stand up guy to do that. Please there was a member that cancelled an order because he was getting it cheaper, it was a $5 difference I believe. I am not surprised :rolleyes2


to save 5$ he broke his word? man thats beyond pathetic

[wizard-comics]

Why would Danny allow someone to walk into his store and shout to customers "go somewhere else to save a few bucks"..

...same thing here....this is not a "public service announcement" forum...this is statueforum.com owned by comicstatues.com.... don't screw with the mans business in his own house

[Synergy]

...same thing here....this is not a "public service announcement" forum...this is statueforum.com owned by comicstatues.com.... don't screw with the mans business in his own house

I couldn't agree more......