The Hard Hero Exclusives Debate...

[galactus]

Just as a disclaimer, these are all my own thoughts and have nothing to do with Drods plans for the exclusives...

Ok, so Bladedanger is a little aggrivated that the forum exclusives are being sold by other retailers. While I myself see no issue with it, he apparently does (and so might others). Regardless, it brings up an issue with the business model the exclusives are following.

When the exclusive option was first brought to Drods attention, the first thing discussed was obviously "how many to make?" The first thought was 100, but that was deemed a little too low (though financially reasonable for Drod). 200 was decided upon because it was still well lower than any other FS offering at the time (though, Sideshow outdid us with THEIR grey Hulk). It was a big risk in terms of investment, and still is to an extent.

Now, the fact that excess may need to get sold to retailers was always in the back of Drods mind, but there was never a second when he figured it would become an issue for some of the folks on the board. All companies do it, it just makes business sense. And even in these few cases, there were necessary quantity levels set, as well as only a minimal discount for those purchases (it comes out to a buy 9, get 1 free).

So, all this being said and done, the question remains: Where do we go from here? We can continue to try and get a variant of every release and make 200. But it WILL be the case that retailers will end up with some of them. There's no avoiding it, unless the pieces become so popular that all 200 sell out through the boards. The issue also arrises that making a variant of EVERY piece which comes out may be too much. So, what are peoples views on this? Should we leave everything as it is, perhaps drop down the production #s to 175, 150, 125..., keep the # at 200, but don't produce a variant of every piece? Or just go willy nilly and adjust everything as Drod sees fit on a case by case basis?

With every company seemingly making a varaint of every piece they produce, people may be getting tired of the whole "variant/exclusive" issue. I know there's no answer which is going to please everyone, but I'm just curious as to what peoples thoughts are?

[Tetragrammaton]

I never thought that a SF exclusive would be made for every release.
This for me (and I suspect for many if not most) would be way too much.
I think 200 remains a good number and would have hoped more forum members would have gotten onboard, so selling through other retailers would not have been an issue.

[SolidLiquidFox]

As somebody who doesn't collect Hard Hero I'll give you my impartial third person point of view on this:

Keep the edition size at 200. That's a pretty good number. Let forum members vote on a handfull of pieces selected by Hard Hero and Statue Forum. Each choice would be based on character popularity and relevance of what the variant could be. Let's face it, not all characters are worth getting a variant for.

Make the voting window in the beginning of the year and let people give their suggestion on what variant details they want. Do the same thing in the summer and let people vote again for the end of the year release. This way only two statues per year are released and people don't get sick of the whole thing. One summer release and one holiday release.

[Tetragrammaton]

Another alternative would be just to make multiple variant exclusives of just the HH Iron Man statue and screw all other characters.

They'll sell out for sure! :buttrock:

[CompEng1]

You're never going to stop people from reselling them. It is really great that Drod took the time to set this up and get them made. The numbers made are still low and we'll get ours so it really shouldn't matter. Are you collecting so that you can have stuff others can't get or are you collecting because you really like the art? I personally couldn't care less if they sell them on Ebay or at K-mart. They are great sculpts and I'll be proud to display mine when they come in. We get first dibs and that is all that really counts, the ability to have first shot at exclusive items. My .02

[greenie]

I say keep doing varaints of every statue. Retailers/ebay will always get their hands on them for resale. This may even be a good thing since a potentially less popular varaint, say iron fist, may not sell well on the forum but drod can still recoupe his money by selling to retailers. As long as forum members get first crack at em, I say keep the exclusives coming.

[ashley76]

I like SolidLiquidsnake's idea. I can't see that every HH release is deserving of a variant.

[Collection King 13]

I like SolidLiquidsnake's idea. I can't see that every HH release is deserving of a variant.
:buttrock: Same here...

[Daredevil]

I'm down with the voting idea..

Also if it doesn't completely sell out to members, maybe consider lower the edition size to about 150. IT will retain a lot more collectability.

[d rod]

well, for starters, there's not going to be an exclusive for every piece. it looks like maybe 4 a year. there are some pieces coming up back to back that i might be interested in though.

if the run is done less then 200, that will give the ability for other stores / sites or whatever to be able to purchase an exclusive as well. note that HH does not have to just sell to us. having the run at 200 scares others away and that way you don't have to go to another site to see who is selling what.

if the site cannot support the sale of 200, i cannot sit on the rest and wish that someday someone will buy it. i will offer it to retailers but ask them to sell them at least at the price that we have them here for. avoiding them getting on ebay will be impossible. i honestly could care less if they sell them for pennies. if sellers want to be fools, so be it. they won't be selling for much longer. this is a piece that will be more popular after the regular piece comes out. HH will have a pic of the exclusive on the regular boxed hulk which will help promote the exclusive one. if he sells 1000 of the regular ones, i find it hard to believe that you cannot find 200 buyers for the exclusive ones.

[Bullseye]

keep the # at 200, but don't produce a variant of every piece?

I think this is best. Have a poll as to whether a character is deserving of a variant, ie exclusive. I would have no interest in an Iron fist but would in an Ironman chrome.

[Teague]

Wow, yeah, I couldn't buy a variant version of every HH release, either, especially since I'm not buying the HH regular line. I think 200 is a good number, too, but at the same time, I think the fanbase would be happy with a lower number, too, so if that's easier on dRod (and his bottom line), then why wouldn't you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding that part of it.

[candyrocket786]

Wow, yeah, I couldn't buy a variant version of every HH release, either, especially since I'm not buying the HH regular line. I think 200 is a good number, too, but at the same time, I think the fanbase would be happy with a lower number, too, so if that's easier on dRod (and his bottom line), then why wouldn't you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding that part of it.

Ditto..

This is an expensive hobby so you have to be selective of what you buy. I'm already part of the Moore SF Club and it looks like I'm going to be committed to GG SW animated line....so I'm going to be stretched pretty thin to buy every HH piece.

Right now I looking forward to HH Ironman (+ possible exclusives) and any damn females.

[d rod]

guys, there will not be a forum variant of every piece. as an example, there are and will be no variants of:
hercules
captain america
namor
thor

[SolidLiquidFox]

Ditto..

This is an expensive hobby so you have to be selective of what you buy. I'm already part of the Moore SF Club and it looks like I'm going to be committed to GG SW animated line....so I'm going to be stretched pretty thin to buy every HH piece.

Right now I looking forward to HH Ironman (+ possible exclusives) and any damn females.

I'm in the same boat. I own all the GG Clone Wars maquettes and plan on getting all the new releases for that line including the upcoming OT ones. I'm also in the Moore Statue club so that's another chunk of change right there. Then the Sideshow stuff...that's part of the reason I don't collect HH or Bowen.

[candyrocket786]

guys, there will not be a forum variant of every piece. as an example, there are and will be no variants of:
hercules
captain america
namor
thor


Alrighty.... paves the way for multiple Iron Man exclusives!!!!! :buttrock:

[cblakey1]

I like SolidLiquidsnake's idea. I can't see that every HH release is deserving of a variant.

Amen, bro! Unless they are chicks, then I want many variants of each!

[SolidLiquidFox]

Alrighty.... paves the way for multiple Iron Man exclusives!!!!! :buttrock:

Just do a drunken face Tony Starks removable head and it'll outsell the Sideshow one for sure. :laugh:

[cblakey1]

First, I think it's cool to have the advertising for Statue Forum on the pieces so we can enlist some more folks to harass here.

Second, SDCC exclusives and others are offered to the public so I don't see a problem with 'em.

The SF Exclusives deal we have here is cool, in that if you stay in, you are guaranteed your numbers match on all pieces. Also, there were 200 originally scheduled to be made, so after our orders are filled, there's nothing wrong with offering the surplus to the general public.

[RogueSpideyFan]

I don't know to me, I would say in order to cut down on D-rod losing monies why not do a poll? Show the character on the website, see how many people want it... Then maybe make 50 - 75 extra for those who did not vote, but never go over 200 pieces total.

[carrillj]

I think edition size should be less than 200, but only because Hulk hasn't sold out yet. For some time now, there has been 80+ left in stock and I'm guessing the Thing will move even slower.

I also wish the price was lower, because $220 is a lot of money. I'm not saying that these statues aren't worth it, only that it's a lot of money for a variant that isn't a hot seller. That's what is keeping me from ordering the Thing. I'll see how the Hulk turns out first.

[devlinboy]

i think it should stay the way it is right now. make the exclusives for certain characters like 4 a year. offer the same # to the forum members who have been buying since the start. .........this is all because bladedanger wont STOP WHINING

[Equinox24]

I don't know to me, I would say in order to cut down on D-rod losing monies why not do a poll? Show the character on the website, see how many people want it... Then maybe make 50 - 75 extra for those who did not vote, but never go over 200 pieces total.

This thread shouldn't have been necessary. I wouldn't indulge a spoiled brat reaction from a 5 year old, let alone someone that is supposed to be an adult, and you shouldn't either. The overwhelming majority appreciates and backs what you have done. Here's hoping it keeps going. I'm betting it will.

I agree with RSF. Get a "real" pre-order situation going. Give the members a certain amount of time to get a down payment in. You did that with The Thing. Then add some additional to it and there's your run. You've done two exclusives, so you have some idea of the type of response you will get. I know it will vary with the character, but base the run on the initial response (down payments) you get for a piece over a number of weeks, then add some to it. Hey, if the run ends up being 125, or 150, so be it and better for those that bought the exclusive. This whole deal is still in the early stages, as you get more members, I think 200 will be easier to sell. I agree with keeping the max at 200.

[JSA]

I personally would like to see the edition size dropped to 150 or even 100.
I like the sculpts, and I'll be buying them either way, but a lower ES just
makes something that much more special to me, and that way you wouldn't
be setting on them either. I honestly thought it would be a mad frenzy for
these on the first day, just like the Sideshow Star Wars pieces and some
of the other Sideshow pieces like their Grey Hulk. I was expecting that
the HH Grey Hulk would sell out with the first day or two, or week at most.

A lower ES would only make these more desirable.

JS

[ashley76]

I think that eventually there will be a mad frenzy for these. Hard Hero isn't your everyday household name in the statue business yet. "marvel-wise" anyway. I bet once the regular hulk is released more and more people will get on the bandwagon. I mean the ebay prices are just now starting creep up out of the cellar on the older pieces...

[mrcrolley]

These Exclusives are 20% of the regular edition for HH. if they hit it big or not is not important the edition should be dropped to 100 a hundred pcs period. Dealers shouldn't be getting these for less than what the members to whom it was originally pitched to as "their" exclusive in the first place. I think the membership here is ruffly 3500 so if you drop it to 100 which of hulk sold out pretty fast then you would only have to convince 2% of the forum to buy them.

[d rod]

about edition sizes.
100: many dealers can pitch HH that they want in on the exclusives. He can't shut everyone out for ever so it means that you would have to go elsewhere to buy them and your number might not be guaranteed.

200: not too many can afford this or sell this amount. it keeps the exclusives in the forum more often than not. good for us

note that HH has to make money on this as well. when was the last time you saw a manufacturer do an exclusive under 200? yes, SS did the Hulk. but what was that, the 3rd version of it? they had already done an in-house exclusive with the traffic lights. what was another 50? HH has yet to release an in-house exclusive. GG, BD, SS have all done exclusives for themselves being released either on their website or a con. How many times have their exclusives or variants been priced above the regular version? Ours isn't.
Us having dibs is a pretty cool thing. I have no problem taking care of a buyer that wants to buy 10 of them. Why? because not enough members supported the item. I will not sit on them hoping a member will buy it. I have the forum plenty of time to purchase them. Those members that wanted to buy 10 didn't ask for a discount, I gave it to them. They are also only guaranteed 1 piece for future exclusives, not the 10. So if a piece is hot, members still get first dibs on them and other dealers will not be able to buy more than 1 and that is only if they are forum members. If a member that bought 10 or 1 of them decides he wants to sell them on ebay for nothing, that is his business. I cannot police every member and what they do with their purchase. At the same time, you can say the same about any "deal" you get on ebay or elsewhere from exclusives made by other companies.
The box of the regular piece will have a pic of the exclusive on it so it should raise the awareness of the piece as well as the value. I do advise that one should buy the piece because they like it, not because they are going to speculate its future value. Yes, it is nicer that a piece gains value but you have to give it time on some of them.

[hawkeyethearcher]

i would make a stealth iron man at around 500. he will sell. this is not another gray hulk or whatever wolverine were there are a lot of choices out there. we will see what happens to the thing but just placing him in another FF costume has no real historical significance. when iron man changes his costume that is comic book news. metallic or chrome plus big difference for character equals sales. the only reason i am not getting the sideshow metallic iron man is because you cant see his armor in that pose.i need to replace my iron man from bowen and know i am going to wait for the hh metallic version.

[Cage]

I think the # is fine. I think the idea is super and I love that I get first dibs and the same #. This is the first time that numbers mean anything to me, and its because I get the same one and its my favorite #. As for other people getting them, the forum members here need to step up and purchase them, all of the people that we have here not paying a dime to be here and then complain when Danny won't sit on on 80 statues? Please.

[SolidLiquidFox]

the only reason i am not getting the sideshow metallic iron man is because you cant see his armor in that pose.i need to replace my iron man from bowen and know i am going to wait for the hh metallic version.

I didn't get the SS metallic version either because I just don't like the modern high tech look on Iron Man that much. i would go as far as to say that the Ultimate version of Iron Man is better. If HH does a kick ass job on this one I may have to reconsider my position on getting a HH piece to my collection.

[Jameshowlett]

I don't think we need a variant for every Statue that HH does. On the subject of selling ecces to retailers, maybe Drod vcan ask the SFX Members if we wanted to purchase a second exclusive first, then let the dealers sell them as long as the price is close to the same I see nothing devalueing here.

[Jameshowlett]

I like SolidLiquidsnake's idea. I can't see that every HH release is deserving of a variant.
I like his idea too, but I would like more than 2 a year. maybe 4.

[Jameshowlett]

I personally would like to see the edition size dropped to 150 or even 100.
I like the sculpts, and I'll be buying them either way, but a lower ES just
makes something that much more special to me, and that way you wouldn't
be setting on them either. I honestly thought it would be a mad frenzy for
these on the first day, just like the Sideshow Star Wars pieces and some
of the other Sideshow pieces like their Grey Hulk. I was expecting that
the HH Grey Hulk would sell out with the first day or two, or week at most.

A lower ES would only make these more desirable.

JS
I too wouldn't mind seeing the editions lowered. It would make sense ,this way you won't have to deal with complaints(however unfounded) about secondary markets.

[SolidLiquidFox]

The 200 edition size is a good figure because it's not so limited as to create hoarding and it gives other retailers to get in on it with statueforum.com

[StatueItis]

Hard Hero is making some of the best stuff out there right now and are nice folks to boot. Statue Forum's collaboration with Hard Hero is a win, win situation. We as collectors get more choices and the better their company does, the more great statues Hard Hero will be able to produce.

We as collectors are lucky because the Hard Hero stuff should be selling for a lot more and if they hang in there long enough, I think they will become very collectable.

[Equinox24]

I don't think we need a variant for every Statue that HH does. On the subject of selling ecces to retailers, maybe Drod vcan ask the SFX Members if we wanted to purchase a second exclusive first, then let the dealers sell them as long as the price is close to the same I see nothing devalueing here.

I agree James and that seems to be the overwhelming opinion. Doing a variant on every statue would prove too much for most. I won't complain about the price. The HH line is larger than others and justifies the cost. I will say this. It is pretty obvious that Iron Man is a real popular character, you see his name on all forums. I don't know if it would be possible, or if the SFX group would want it, and I don't want to start a poll. But I'd love to see HH do another variant Iron Man in the silver centurion armor. They have done such an excellent job with the sculpts so far, I know they would nail it. It would look great with the metallic finish. If they did the stealth and the SC armor they would have two statues that haven't been done on the same character. Someone else said do 500 of the stealth, they will sell. That's up to you, but I agree that if you did 500 they'd be gone. The stealth is going to be a big draw. Thanks for the fine choice.

[ironmanfan001]

So how many have been in on the first couple HH exclusives? If they are first on the list, how many does that leave for the rest of us? Has there been a number of how many the exclusive will be yet?

[Wolverine1]

I like the poll idea on where we decide the character or exclusive. I dont see HH letting us see which characters they are doing.

[Daredevil]

exclusive

[apetrucc]

I say that the total # of exclusive statues(for each release) made should be no greater than the total # of orders received from the members plus a small amount to be sold on comicstatues.com
Use the history for the 1st two releases as a guide.minus any retailer/reseller incentives (order 9 one for free issues). and cut it off from there..if it doesnt make good business sense DONT DO IT

If demand exceeds supply in future exclusive forum releases for whatever reason it is all good..If not,the reason you buy is because you like the product not the profit...

I hate people who whine in public..

[overkill]

I would think that once the sales of the grey hulk slowed down that would be the edition size. In other words if you sold 145 Grey Hulks and then decided that it was time to offer them to retailers maybe thats when you should decide on the edition size. Also if you buy 10 of them why would you not be entitled to buying 10 of all exclusives with matching numbers. I would think it would make life easier for you that way also.