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overkill
06-11-2006, 05:29 PM
Im not too sure if this has been brought up already. Im sure it has been but im way too lazy to check into it.
Is it me or is Bowen making some horrible decisions lately? I think 3 Submariners is ridiculous. As least the green one and black one have different costumes. The red one is absolutely ridiculous. And then the whole debacle of 3 full sized spiderman statues within 1 month of each other. The collectors club exclusive still hasnt sold out and neither has red Namor. I know red Namor wasnt an exclusive but it was in the beginning. I think poor sales forced it to become an internet exclusive as opposed to a collectors club exclusive.
Considering the amount of stuff coming out I think Randy needs to slow down on the variant nonsense. Way too much product these days. If you want a true collectors club exclusive make it an original mold of a character that has not been done yet. Attuma would have been perfect. You only made 1500 of them. Im sure if you chopped off 500 of them and only made a 1000 it would have been a good exclusive. Not everyone needs to love it but it is unique.
Anyway sorry to rant but this has been on my mind. I like the statues and busts a lot but its getting to be overkill. Ahem

mwf6171
06-11-2006, 05:38 PM
Variants = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

overkill
06-11-2006, 05:47 PM
Do they? Classic spiderman, Red namor and red angel are all going for considerably less than retail. Red Angel is hovering at around retail but the others are low.

Jesse321
06-11-2006, 05:51 PM
Do they? Classic spiderman, Red namor and red angel are all going for considerably less than retail. Red Angel is hovering at around retail but the others are low.What they go for on the secondary market is pretty much irrelevant .... BD's sells them at a set price (be they wholesale to distributors or direct retail to it's custmers) and makes thier profits on those sales. But I agree with your observation that 3 Namor statues is overkill.

I think that the price drops you're seeing on pieces like these on the secondary market are the direct result of the over-saturation of product both by BD's and by the market in general. But as long as they continue to sell out at BD's, they will keep producing them.

The General
06-11-2006, 05:58 PM
What they go for on the secondary market is pretty much irrelevant .... BD's sells them at a set price (be they wholesale to distributors or direct retail to it's custmers) and makes thier profits on those sales. But I agree with your observation that 3 Namor statues is overkill.

I think that the price drops you're seeing on pieces like these on the secondary market are the direct result of the over-saturation of product both by BD's and by the market in general.
Yep. Once BD sell em' out it doesn't matter at that point. He usually sells out everything within a few months so until that stops why would he stop making variants. It's easy money for him. I personally hate the excessive variants but I wouldn't stop if I was him either.

Endless Wake
06-11-2006, 05:58 PM
Keep the variants coming!

It gives everyone a chance to get the version of the character they want and it makes each piece that more profitable for BD (which allows them to continue to make great statues of A-list to C-list characters)!

Only a completist could argue against that logic.

overkill
06-11-2006, 05:58 PM
Good point. And to me at best, a second tier character like Submariner should have had one version only. Now let me totally contradict myself and say that im hoping for a chrome ultron. What a d!ldo I can be

lord odin
06-11-2006, 06:03 PM
I agree there is overkill and it`s killing the market but I don`t really collect bowen anymore so it`s fine with me I feel sorry for the completists.

Captain Late
06-11-2006, 06:06 PM
There is certainly an argument to be made that the Cleary spideys were one too many and the same with the 3rd Namor but we also need to remember that often these were requested on the boards or at least enthusiasm was shown for them.
The other thing to remember is that this is how Randy (and Rocky) MAKE THEIR LIVING! The contract with Marvel is for a set time, not a set # of pieces so an extra FS or two to the tune a 1000 or so units means they make more money and that's smart business! If BD said to themselves "no, that's too many spiderman statues" they still pay the exact same amount to Marvel. Every extra bust or staue produced helps them towards the future.
Plus, let's face it, we're all incredibly enthusiastic about variants and sneaks but when it comes time to order the crowd thins out... That's how we got 1500 MT... Everyone loved the sculpt until they realized it wasn't a short run exclusive.. .
And that's my .02 rant for today... :laugh:

Immovable Blob
06-11-2006, 06:06 PM
If you don't like em don't buy em. Unless your a completist (poor B@st@rds) your not going to buy everything that comes out. However I would rather there was too much then not enough. I have wondered at a few of the choices recently, but it didn't bother my wallet so i'm not borthered.

yorick
06-11-2006, 06:16 PM
Im not too sure if this has been brought up already. Im sure it has been but im way too lazy to check into it.
Is it me or is Bowen making some horrible decisions lately? I think 3 Submariners is ridiculous. As least the green one and black one have different costumes. The red one is absolutely ridiculous. And then the whole debacle of 3 full sized spiderman statues within 1 month of each other. The collectors club exclusive still hasnt sold out and neither has red Namor. I know red Namor wasnt an exclusive but it was in the beginning. I think poor sales forced it to become an internet exclusive as opposed to a collectors club exclusive.
Considering the amount of stuff coming out I think Randy needs to slow down on the variant nonsense. Way too much product these days. If you want a true collectors club exclusive make it an original mold of a character that has not been done yet. Attuma would have been perfect. You only made 1500 of them. Im sure if you chopped off 500 of them and only made a 1000 it would have been a good exclusive. Not everyone needs to love it but it is unique.
Anyway sorry to rant but this has been on my mind. I like the statues and busts a lot but its getting to be overkill. Ahem

Remind me again, why Randy doesn't post as much anymore?... :rolleyes2

d rod
06-11-2006, 06:24 PM
I don't think BD produces with a concern about the secondary market. They actually shouldn't anyways. If they want to make 20 versions of Namor, let them. It should not affect any one of us. I have never seen BD force anyone to buy a bust or statue. If they go for $2 on ebay, well, it's your lucky day! Don't buy because you're worried what the market brings for them. Buy because you like the piece.

Regardless, you are getting some enjoyment on the piece. So, if you buy a statue for $150 this year and sell it in 2 years and only get $100, wasn't that statue worth the $25 a year of entertainment? I actually have been selling my older statues and getting new ones. With all of the choices out there and better quality than before, I'm ecstatic! I don't even care that I've sold some of my pieces for virtually nothing. When I upgrade my computers, I can't even give away my old ones so I consider myself lucky to get something.

Ectomorph
06-11-2006, 06:25 PM
Im not too sure if this has been brought up already. Im sure it has been but im way too lazy to check into it.
Is it me or is Bowen making some horrible decisions lately? I think 3 Submariners is ridiculous. As least the green one and black one have different costumes. The red one is absolutely ridiculous. And then the whole debacle of 3 full sized spiderman statues within 1 month of each other. The collectors club exclusive still hasnt sold out and neither has red Namor. I know red Namor wasnt an exclusive but it was in the beginning. I think poor sales forced it to become an internet exclusive as opposed to a collectors club exclusive.

You could say this would be like comic cover variants. But if it doesn't limit the other fs and mb being made, then I don't think it really matters. Probably to a completist or true collector, but for the general market, I really don't think so. Though I do agree, 3 namors and 3 spidermen fs, is a bit much. At least for the namor fs, the black was different from the green, same iwith spidey and scarlet.

Cheers

d rod
06-11-2006, 06:29 PM
At the same time. What happens if the black version was your favorite and he only made the green? What if it was the green and he only made the red? Aren't you happy that you now have options?

HalJordanFan
06-11-2006, 06:39 PM
Remind me again, why Randy doesn't post as much anymore?... :rolleyes2


LOL!! :laugh: His loss!!!! :buttrock:

fossa
06-11-2006, 06:42 PM
LOL!! :laugh: His loss!!!! :buttrock:you *aren't* serious :inquisiti

blackjack
06-11-2006, 07:40 PM
I don't think BD produces with a concern about the secondary market. They actually shouldn't anyways. If they want to make 20 versions of Namor, let them. It should not affect any one of us. I have never seen BD force anyone to buy a bust or statue. If they go for $2 on ebay, well, it's your lucky day! Don't buy because you're worried what the market brings for them. Buy because you like the piece.

Regardless, you are getting some enjoyment on the piece. So, if you buy a statue for $150 this year and sell it in 2 years and only get $100, wasn't that statue worth the $25 a year of entertainment? I actually have been selling my older statues and getting new ones. With all of the choices out there and better quality than before, I'm ecstatic! I don't even care that I've sold some of my pieces for virtually nothing. When I upgrade my computers, I can't even give away my old ones so I consider myself lucky to get something.

I like your voice of reason! :buttrock: Some people just don't get it and just like to complain and complain and complain....

Gatekeeper2Hell
06-11-2006, 08:18 PM
If anything, Randy has tried to discourage completism in the past. So producing variants not only provides us with more options that we might want, but it tries to nudge people away from being completists.

... The collectors club exclusive still hasnt sold out and neither has red Namor. ...
P.S. If no one has noticed, the red Namor has been marked as sold out for a couple of days now.

heirtoasguard
06-11-2006, 08:41 PM
Gatekeeper I don't buy that for a second. I think that Randy really don't care about this completism at all. if Randy did, why would he make something so rare and hard to get a hold on? look at what he did with the Sas. cube. only a 100 made. true, he's not responsible for the secondary prices but he's been in the business long enough to know what he was and keeps doing with these real limited runs. a completist will shell over a couple of hundreds just to stay complete. Randy does this on purpose.

fossa
06-11-2006, 08:41 PM
If anything, Randy has tried to discourage completism in the past. So producing variants not only provides us with more options that we might want, but it tries to nudge people away from being completists.


P.S. If no one has noticed, the red Namor has been marked as sold out for a couple of days now.yes. there is a thread here somewhere stating that fact.

Jesse321
06-11-2006, 09:05 PM
Gatekeeper I don't buy that for a second. I think that Randy really don't care about this completism at all.

Randy does this on purpose.Completeizm isn't Randy's problem or issue, it never has been ... it's the collecters.

Randy has stated several times that people should simply buy what they like ... if the collecter chooses to buy everything that BD's designs produces, how is that BD's fault? No one is holding a gun to anyones head.

At the end of the day, BD's is a business and every business is in business to make money. If variants are an easy and cost effective way to make some extra cash for my business, you can bet that I would be making them too, so I very well can't hold it against BD's. And like Danny said, I'm grateful that BD's did the black armor version of Namor as that's the one I wanted and bought/

cousinlouie
06-11-2006, 09:38 PM
We are privleged that Randy listens to us or even checks out this board, it would be like having interaction with Stan and Jack back in the day, a little criticism of Bowen Designs is ok I guess but, lay off, plus he's said its cost effective as hell to do a variant, dont get me wrong I would love a unique variant, but the market (me and you) supports this stuff so ... It is what it is

Relic
06-11-2006, 09:48 PM
It's my opinion that Mr. Bowen puts out different varients and sculptures of the same character because he wants to provide his customer with options.

CaptCracker
06-11-2006, 10:03 PM
Although varients are easy money.... it takes up space at the factory and time (tweaking). Might as well produce a resculpt of the character in a different costume, it might cost more to BD but it will be well worth it for the customers who are keeping them in business. It's the best solution in my opinion.

mwf6171
06-11-2006, 11:19 PM
What they go for on the secondary market is pretty much irrelevant .... BD's sells them at a set price (be they wholesale to distributors or direct retail to it's custmers) and makes thier profits on those sales. But I agree with your observation that 3 Namor statues is overkill.

I think that the price drops you're seeing on pieces like these on the secondary market are the direct result of the over-saturation of product both by BD's and by the market in general. But as long as they continue to sell out at BD's, they will keep producing them.


Yeah, what he said!!

mwf6171
06-11-2006, 11:20 PM
Yep. Once BD sell em' out it doesn't matter at that point. He usually sells out everything within a few months so until that stops why would he stop making variants. It's easy money for him. I personally hate the excessive variants but I wouldn't stop if I was him either.


Him too!!!!

MONSTER
06-11-2006, 11:25 PM
I like the variants. I am all for having as many options as possible. As long as you don't try and buy everything, there is nothing to complain about.

Iacon13
06-11-2006, 11:30 PM
We requested the red trunks and as I recall there were many people up in arms about it possibly not being produced. Now we hear from those who think it was overkill after it has been made. It seems like no matter what Bowen does he gets slammed. Hes' been in business this long so I think we just need to learn to trust his judgment. Also red trunks sold out at 500 and I am sure the black leather outfit will eventually as well so if he can sell them then he has not made to many. My 2 cents.

Tattoo-X
06-11-2006, 11:31 PM
I like the variants. I am all for having as many options as possible. As long as you don't try and buy everything, there is nothing to complain about.
That should be a problem either, if they're released proberly.

mwf6171
06-11-2006, 11:35 PM
We requested the red trunks and as I recall there were many people up in arms about it possibly not being produced. Now we hear from those who think it was overkill after it has been made. It seems like no matter what Bowen does he gets slammed. Hes' been in business this long so I think we just need to learn to trust his judgment. Also red trunks sold out at 500 and I am sure the black leather outfit will eventually as well so if he can sell them then he has not made to many. My 2 cents.


I was just a bit peeved that Randy said there would be no red trunks Namor, then changed his mind. I know that people that wanted the red trunks ordered a green trunks or black suit in stead, then the red trunks is released. Not that we need to know about every single sculpt, but if you say it is not being made, then stick with it. I don't think people were up in arms about it not being made.

I think this happened with another sculpt, but can't remember which.

CaptCracker
06-11-2006, 11:42 PM
We requested the red trunks and as I recall there were many people up in arms about it possibly not being produced. Now we hear from those who think it was overkill after it has been made. It seems like no matter what Bowen does he gets slammed. Hes' been in business this long so I think we just need to learn to trust his judgment. Also red trunks sold out at 500 and I am sure the black leather outfit will eventually as well so if he can sell them then he has not made to many. My 2 cents.
Actually....no
If my memory serves me right Randy was the one who mentioned it first saying he was possibly releasing only 200 or 250 and would cost $350.
Then came the arguments of edition sizes or if it should even be released.

Jesse321
06-11-2006, 11:44 PM
Actually....no
If my memory serves me right Randy was the one who mentioned it first saying he was possibly releasing only 200 or 250 and would cost $350.
Then came the arguments of edition sizes or if it should even be released.But that doesn't change that fact that once it was announced there were people on the forum that wanted it ... same thing happened with the white Moon Knight.

CaptCracker
06-12-2006, 12:15 AM
But that doesn't change that fact that once it was announced there were people on the forum that wanted it ... same thing happened with the white Moon Knight.
I was just pointing out that Randy mentioned it first.........people seemed to forget that.
I guess it just me then......I'd rather have a completly new sculpt of the character in a different costume.

JadeGiant
06-12-2006, 01:43 AM
I don't understand these types of threads.

If you don't like something, don't buy it.

Everything sells out, some of the variants are easily produced with low costs and make $ for the company.

I am not always a fan of some of the variants but it is not my company. I don't pay the bills or make the decisions on what gets made.

:peoples: :peoples: :peoples:

galactus
06-12-2006, 01:52 AM
At the same time. What happens if the black version was your favorite and he only made the green? What if it was the green and he only made the red? Aren't you happy that you now have options?

I think this is what Bowen is trying to accomplish with all the variants (NOT to be confused with exclusives). Instead of making 3000 Green Suit Namors (arguably the most popular and "safest" choice to make), Bowen went with 1000 Green, 1500 Black and 500 Red. So, he's making the same number of pieces per CHARACTER, but making different versions of said character to appeal to more customers.

While I feel bad for completists (whom are really afflicted with a disease, and hence can't help themselves, haha), Bowen is making (IMO) a good business decision to help him get to as many customers as possible.

lord odin
06-12-2006, 02:06 AM
I think this is what Bowen is trying to accomplish with all the variants (NOT to be confused with exclusives). Instead of making 3000 Green Suit Namors (arguably the most popular and "safest" choice to make), Bowen went with 1000 Green, 1500 Black and 500 Red. So, he's making the same number of pieces per CHARACTER, but making different versions of said character to appeal to more customers.

While I feel bad for completists (whom are really afflicted with a disease, and hence can't help themselves, haha), Bowen is making (IMO) a good business decision to help him get to as many customers as possible.
I agree but also it`s bad IMO because having too many versions of the same character lowers the value of the piece that`s one of my problems buying a piece(i`m talking about statues not sex the sex is leased with an option to buy) you look on ebay and see you could save a bundle of cash.