Ryan Howard for NL MVP? [Archive]

nolilia

09-09-2006, 10:48 AM

The General

09-09-2006, 11:16 AM

What do you think guys? His stats right now is overwhelming.

56 HRs (and counting)
130 plus RBIs
Batting ave of around .306

I observed lately he's getting a Barry Bonds treatment (not that "thing"). I mean doing the intentional walk a lot of times when he's at bat. I watched the game between Phillies and Astros a couple of days ago. Tied at 2-2, he got an intentional walk leading off?:confused: That says something about the guy. I would considered right now he's one of the most feared hitters.

Do you think he deserves it?

He's easily the MVP IMO. Beltran had it in the bag a month back but it's safe to say the MVP race is over. Howard is probably going to hit 60+ and might drive in 150 rbi and he might finish batting over .300. Only guy that can screw him is Beltran and unless he has one of those ridiculous clutch stretches like Ortiz has had in the past I don't think he should get it. The Met's line up is stacked - All Howard has is Utley and Rollins. Cards are limping into the playoffs so unless they heat up and Pujols at least hits 50+ I wouldn't give it to Albert either.

Howard is MVP.

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 11:33 AM

Daywalker

09-09-2006, 11:39 AM

The General

09-09-2006, 11:43 AM

as much as i hate to say it, i think he will win mvp. i still think that beltran could sneak in and get it, but in reality you could argue that reyes is just as important to the mets as beltran. i wish it was a met gettin the mvp..but i dont think they will overlook howards #'s the guy is having a monster year. if he was on a 1st place team we wouldnt even be having this talk.

Very true bro and I appreciate the fact your not they typical Met fan.

I agree, Reyes is just as important probably more than Beltran. Beltran needs to at least take one of those offensive categories to get the MVP IMO and I don't see him taking over the RBI lead and he's definitely not catching him Howards HR total. I also agree that if the Phills were in 1st or the Phills had control of the wild card there wouldn't even be a doubt. BUT since everyone has Met fever including the media you never know how they will vote. It would be a crime not to give Howard the MVP. JMO

Zurbaran1

09-09-2006, 11:49 AM

What do you think guys? His stats right now is overwhelming.

56 HRs (and counting)
130 plus RBIs
Batting ave of around .306

I observed lately he's getting a Barry Bonds treatment (not that "thing"). I mean doing the intentional walk a lot of times when he's at bat. I watched the game between Phillies and Astros a couple of days ago. Tied at 2-2, he got an intentional walk leading off?:confused: That says something about the guy. I would considered right now he's one of the most feared hitters.

Do you think he deserves it?

He deserves something for the tremendous year he is having. The MVP should go to the player who has had the greatest impact on their team. Unfortunately his numbers haven't helped the Phillies at all since they are what, 20 games back. They should rename this award to the Most Greatest Player and then it wouldn't even be in doubt. But Valuable? Even this guy couldn't helpt the Phils. If Beltran doesn't get it it should at least be close if you bring the value factor in.

Daywalker

09-09-2006, 12:16 PM

the other thing is that beltran is pretty much a lock or comeback player of the year so that might also take away from him wining the MVP

The General

09-09-2006, 01:00 PM

the other thing is that beltran is pretty much a lock or comeback player of the year so that might also take away from him wining the MVP

Very true. I think that Reyes is not helping Beltran either. I can't see Howard not winning it.

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 01:02 PM

people love the home run hitters so howards going to get some votes just cause of that.

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 01:04 PM

ill tell you who is not gonna get it...lol milledge..what a lazy bum ive never seen a young player that egotistical. every time he catches a ball i wince its like he doesnt care about being in the bigs. yeah hes got upside, but if it was up to me i would have dumped him for some pitching.

fossa

09-09-2006, 01:18 PM

also dont forget that if u r a great palyer on a team with nobdoy u wont rank as high in th eMVP voting as u would if ur on a team that is all prodcuing and ur standing out - so beltran might get more consideration then u mihgt expect b/c he is on a team with several other stars where as howard is pretty much carrying the team himself
isn't that the defintion of an MVP?

but i do see what you are saying that if you are on a good team you will get more consideration than if you are on a bad team.

Daywalker

09-09-2006, 01:30 PM

isn't that the defintion of an MVP?

but i do see what you are saying that if you are on a good team you will get more consideration than if you are on a bad team.

yes and no - its like the old saying theres a difference between justice and the law

the MVP voters ussually vote for a guy having a huge year on a team with other stars that are productive - as tehy describe it its easy to be a stand out player on a team of nobodys but its hard to shine among other diamonds

fossa

09-09-2006, 01:39 PM

OK. later DW. time to watch the Dodgers beat the Mets again :)

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 01:41 PM

hey fossa , lol:stick: theres more where that came from:)

nolilia

09-09-2006, 03:56 PM

Daywalker

09-09-2006, 04:00 PM

OK. later DW. time to watch the Dodgers beat the Mets again :)

:confused2 or watch them loose - either way :thumbs2: :thumbs2:

fossa

09-09-2006, 05:30 PM

:confused2 or watch them lose - either way :thumbs2:
:banghead: even *I* could have managed that 6th inning better. how many decisions can Little possibly make and they are *ALL* wrong :banghead:

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 05:31 PM

thats grady for you foss, thats why boston gave him the boot

Tony Coca

09-09-2006, 08:36 PM

How about this goof ball.

http://www.idatasports.com/imgs_lrg/idpph81.jpg

devlinboy

09-09-2006, 08:40 PM

nah hes was slumping for a while, and hes too inconsistent in the field for me

The General

09-09-2006, 10:17 PM

How about this goof ball.

http://www.idatasports.com/imgs_lrg/idpph81.jpg

I know. What happened to the mighty David Wright. Some insane Met fans at my job were going on and on about how they wouldn't trade Wright for Arod. Of course this is when he was on fire.

Underdog07

09-10-2006, 12:54 AM

He deserves something for the tremendous year he is having. The MVP should go to the player who has had the greatest impact on their team. Unfortunately his numbers haven't helped the Phillies at all since they are what, 20 games back. They should rename this award to the Most Greatest Player and then it wouldn't even be in doubt. But Valuable? Even this guy couldn't helpt the Phils. If Beltran doesn't get it it should at least be close if you bring the value factor in.

Zurb's comment brushes by an argument I have always made - MVP should go to the most VALUEable player, so salary should be taken into account. EG, you have two players with identical stats, but one makes $20M the other $5M. Who was more Valuable to his team? More bang for the buck should give you the award. Plus, when you're making $15-20M you are expected to perform.

As for Howard, he's still going to face comeptition from Pujols, Beltron and possibly Cabrera. Sheer numbers should win it for Howard, but voters have moved away from that being a determinative factor.

Side note, all these morons saying Howard should be crowned the HR king if he hits 62 are on crack unless they are in possession of a urine and blood sample. Otherwise, no one has any idea whether or not Howard is clean (I have no reason to think he isn't clean, but one never knows).

Underdog07

09-10-2006, 12:55 AM

I know. What happened to the mighty David Wright. Some insane Met fans at my job were going on and on about how they wouldn't trade Wright for Arod. Of course this is when he was on fire.

I would rather have Wright for the next 15 years then Arod. Probably for the next 10 also. However, not for the next 7.

Simply put, ARod is one of the top 10 players of all time.

Daywalker

09-10-2006, 10:02 AM

I would rather have Wright for the next 15 years then Arod. Probably for the next 10 also. However, not for the next 7.

Simply put, ARod is one of the top 10 players of all time.

currently yes - all time definatly not

Daredevil

09-10-2006, 12:26 PM

I would not trade Wright for Arod. Wright is 23 and will get even better and consistent. HE will be a Met for 15 years.

The General

09-10-2006, 05:27 PM

currently yes - all time definatly not

Definitely.. What a hater you are. When it's all said and done I think he will be in the top 10 greatest players. How can you say definitely like he's some scrub. You Met fans are just natural haters.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 12:50 AM

Definitely.. What a hater you are. When it's all said and done I think he will be in the top 10 greatest players. How can you say definitely like he's some scrub. You Met fans are just natural haters.

im not hating or being what u call a typical mets fan - arod is just not one of the top 10 greatest players of all time - maybe hes one of the top 10 3rd baseman of all time - but not players - not even u, a hopelessly distorted yankee fan, can say he a better palyer then the likes of mantle, mays, ruth, dimagio, gerhig and so on

i bet u think bonds is one of the ten best players of all time too

devlinboy

09-11-2006, 12:54 AM

thats a BIG generalization about mets fans being haters.

The General

09-11-2006, 07:23 AM

im not hating or being what u call a typical mets fan - arod is just not one of the top 10 greatest players of all time - maybe hes one of the top 10 3rd baseman of all time - but not players - not even u, a hopelessly distorted yankee fan, can say he a better palyer then the likes of mantle, mays, ruth, dimagio, gerhig and so on

i bet u think bonds is one of the ten best players of all time too

I said when it's all said and done I think he will be one of the 10 greatest, not now. You delusional Met fans don't read either? I call it right down the middle baby. Bro don't hate on The Gen man because I'm a living breathing baseball almanac, and yes if it wasn't for the steroid allegations Bonds is a no-brainer top 10 player. I think the likes of Mo Vaugh, the Kazmir trade and Piazza have scarred you Met fans for life.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 09:03 AM

I said when it's all said and done I think he will be one of the 10 greatest, not now. You delusional Met fans don't read either? I call it right down the middle baby. Bro don't hate on The Gen man because I'm a living breathing baseball almanac, and yes if it wasn't for the steroid allegations Bonds is a no-brainer top 10 player. I think the likes of Mo Vaugh, the Kazmir trade and Piazza have scarred you Met fans for life.

i guess being a yankee fan comes with a lifetime supply of crack - arod will never be one of the top 10 best palyers ever - and if bonds could be so can palmeiro

The General

09-11-2006, 09:37 AM

i guess being a yankee fan comes with a lifetime supply of crack - arod will never be one of the top 10 best palyers ever - and if bonds could be so can palmeiro

So you must think Arod really sucks. Please don't tell me that you think any current Met has a chance of cracking that top ten list. Palmeiro is not in Bonds league dude, come on. Palmeiro is a great player but not Bonds great. True or not the steroid crap has destroyed Bonds, Mcguire & Sosa's legacy. Along with Palmeiro and who ever else got named. It's a shame, the single season and career homerun record is tainted forever.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 09:56 AM

So you must think Arod really sucks. Please don't tell me that you think any current Met has a chance of cracking that top ten list. Palmeiro is not in Bonds league dude, come on. Palmeiro is a great player but not Bonds great. True or not the steroid crap has destroyed Bonds, Mcguire & Sosa's legacy. Along with Palmeiro and who ever else got named. It's a shame, the single season and career homerun record is tainted forever.

DUDE - can u ever f#$kin read ?!?!? - i never said arod sucks - i never said he was bad or wahtever - u just want to see what u want - infact if u go back and re-read (assuming u can ) i said he was one of the top 10 currently ( more like 3 ) along with pujols and vlad - but all time ?? no way - there is no way u can tell me he is better then mantle, mays, ruth, joe d, gerhig, ryan, cobb, young, mathewson, or williams

not only is the single season HR record tainted but when/if he break aarons record that will be tainted too

The General

09-11-2006, 11:34 AM

DUDE - can u ever f#$kin read ?!?!? - i never said arod sucks - i never said he was bad or wahtever - u just want to see what u want - infact if u go back and re-read (assuming u can ) i said he was one of the top 10 currently ( more like 3 ) along with pujols and vlad - but all time ?? no way - there is no way u can tell me he is better then mantle, mays, ruth, joe d, gerhig, ryan, cobb, young, mathewson, or williams

not only is the single season HR record tainted but when/if he break aarons record that will be tainted too

Bro I can read just fine, it’s you that can’t read - From what you’re saying you might as well just come out and say Arod’s a bum. If you look at his projected #’s if he stays playing the way he has how could you not think he’ll be a top 10 greats player.

I’m still waiting for you to beat me in a baseball debate dude. Your like 0 for 5. I did so many donuts in victory lane I blew out my transmission after the Bonds debates.

I wish you had kids so I could kick them in their F’n heads or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because that’s the pain I have when I wake up every morning. Just remember this bastich… My reading comprehension is impetuous and my baseball knowledge is impregnable, all praise be to Allah.:buttrock:

:laugh:

Underdog07

09-11-2006, 02:55 PM

i bet u think bonds is one of the ten best players of all time too

Nope. I think he is the best player of all time.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 02:56 PM

Bro I can read just fine, it’s you that can’t read - From what you’re saying you might as well just come out and say Arod’s a bum. If you look at his projected #’s if he stays playing the way he has how could you not think he’ll be a top 10 greats player.

I’m still waiting for you to beat me in a baseball debate dude. Your like 0 for 5. I did so many donuts in victory lane I blew out my transmission after the Bonds debates.

I wish you had kids so I could kick them in their F’n heads or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because that’s the pain I have when I wake up every morning. Just remember this bastich… My reading comprehension is impetuous and my baseball knowledge is impregnable, all praise be to Allah.:buttrock:

:laugh:

if by u "won" our debates u mean u talk out ur ass and think ur right well then yes u have

i wish u had kids so when i saw the little fan boys u would raise i could piss on their yankee caps and tell them their papi is a former patient from arkum - then i could tear up their bonds and arod cards and laugh at them while they go :bawling: to u

u beleive whatever u want and then claim u know so much - u couldnt call anyhting baseball down the middle if ur life depended on it - and as far as the bonds debates u lost - cuz when it comes down to it - bonds is nothing more then a dirty cheating steriod abusing deadbeat

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 02:56 PM

Nope. I think he is the best steriod user of all time.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The General

09-11-2006, 04:05 PM

if by u "won" our debates u mean u talk out ur ass and think ur right well then yes u have

i wish u had kids so when i saw the little fan boys u would raise i could piss on their yankee caps and tell them their papi is a former patient from arkum - then i could tear up their bonds and arod cards and laugh at them while they go :bawling: to u

u beleive whatever u want and then claim u know so much - u couldnt call anyhting baseball down the middle if ur life depended on it - and as far as the bonds debates u lost - cuz when it comes down to it - bonds is nothing more then a dirty cheating steriod abusing deadbeat

You wish dude. Don’t lie to yourself you know you’ve lost every one and it’s super obvious that it’s you that cannot call anything baseball down the middle. I’m not saying you’re not capable of winning one but so far I’ve pummeled you. I can tell you why you’ve lost but you’re the master of denial so I won’t bother.

As far as Bonds goes, it’s the same as when I spanked you in the debate - Innocent until proven guilty bro. That’s the bottom line dude unless you have proof that nobody knows about. They asterisk his stats and records they need to do the same to long ass list of players including Mr. greatest living pitcher Roger Clemens. You know that split screen picture of Bonds rookie season & current picture you love so much? Get one of Clemens and then tell me he isn’t as obvious a steroid user as Bonds supposedly is.

The General

09-11-2006, 04:07 PM

Nope. I think he is the best player of all time.

Do you really? I'm not being an assbag I'm really asking.

Zurbaran1

09-11-2006, 04:10 PM

I declare Daywalker the winner and General the whiny little ass-bag (his word) Momo(my word) biatch that we all know he is. :) Now let's move on and fight about something else. :stick:

The General

09-11-2006, 04:23 PM

I declare Daywalker the winner and General the whiny little ass-bag (his word) Momo(my word) biatch that we all know he is. :) Now let's move on and fight about something else. :stick:

Go back to the abyss Lucas beard. You’re the only bastich that says I whine. Go comb your beard unless you have something to add. Being that your already here answer this for me – Who was the better hitter, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth or Ted Williams? Being that you’ve seen all 3 play your input on this would be awesome.:thumbs2:

devlinboy

09-11-2006, 04:26 PM

tony gwynn

Zurbaran1

09-11-2006, 04:27 PM

... Being that your already here answer this for me – Who was the better hitter, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth or Ted Williams? Being that you’ve seen all 3 play your input on this would be awesome.:thumbs2:

Ted Williams by a head. :)

devlinboy

09-11-2006, 04:27 PM

zingggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

The General

09-11-2006, 04:44 PM

Ted Williams by a head. :)

Being that I’m the man that always calls it down the middle… I cannot tell a lie. That was a good one. Still doesn’t change that fact that you’re an old ass MacLeod bastich.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 05:25 PM

You wish dude. Don’t lie to yourself you know you’ve lost every one and it’s super obvious that it’s you that cannot call anything baseball down the middle. I’m not saying you’re not capable of winning one but so far I’ve pummeled you. I can tell you why you’ve lost but you’re the master of denial so I won’t bother.

As far as Bonds goes, it’s the same as when I spanked you in the debate - Innocent until proven guilty bro. That’s the bottom line dude unless you have proof that nobody knows about. They asterisk his stats and records they need to do the same to long ass list of players including Mr. greatest living pitcher Roger Clemens. You know that split screen picture of Bonds rookie season & current picture you love so much? Get one of Clemens and then tell me he isn’t as obvious a steroid user as Bonds supposedly is.
he already has been found to have used controls supstances - even though u deem them "no big deal" the fact of the matter is he has be caught and played the "i didnt know i was using game" - and if MLB used a real steriod test he would be found for more then that

but since that conviently slipped ur mind go back to ignoring things that u dont want to see and just go about telling us all how u "call it fair" ( of course its fair in a distorted fanboy view of things )

The General

09-11-2006, 07:35 PM

he already has been found to have used controls supstances - even though u deem them "no big deal" the fact of the matter is he has be caught and played the "i didnt know i was using game" - and if MLB used a real steriod test he would be found for more then that

but since that conviently slipped ur mind go back to ignoring things that u dont want to see and just go about telling us all how u "call it fair" ( of course its fair in a distorted fanboy view of things )

Blah blah blah. We already went through this - Do I have to rehash everything for you. He said he didn't know, until now Bonds hasn't gave anyone any reason to not take him for his word so he should be given a pass the same way Giambi & Sheff got. It's that simple. You don't have a leg to stand on so you tried and continue to try to twist or put words into my mouth.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 07:47 PM

Blah blah blah. We already went through this - Do I have to rehash everything for you. He said he didn't know, until now Bonds hasn't gave anyone any reason to not take him for his word so he should be given a pass the same way Giambi & Sheff got. It's that simple. You don't have a leg to stand on so you tried and continue to try to twist or put words into my mouth.

there is no twisting or putting words in ur mouth - im just repeating what u said

well if bonds aint guilty then niether is macgwire

and getting back on topic - if u say arod is top 10 all time who else is ? - and for the record i never said he was a bum nor did i ever imply it ( if anything thats u twisting things and putting words in my mouth ) i simply said hes not a top 10 player all time - a top 10 3rd baseman but not a top 10 player - arod is good he is a very good 3rd baseman and is one of the top 5 players in the league today but when u compare him to the greats that have played he is not top 10

The General

09-11-2006, 07:53 PM

there is no twisting or putting words in ur mouth - im just repeating what u said

well if bonds aint guilty then niether is macgwire

and getting back on topic - if u say arod is top 10 all time who else is ? - and for the record i never said he was a bum nor did i ever imply it ( if anything thats u twisting things and putting words in my mouth ) i simply said hes not a top 10 player all time - a top 10 3rd baseman but not a top 10 player - arod is good he is a very good 3rd baseman and is one of the top 5 players in the league today but when u compare him to the greats that have played he is not top 10

It's safe to say that Pujols will end up a top 10 caliber player. Griffey was always projected to one of the greatest players ever before his injury. Why are you acting like what I'm saying is so crazy. Your telling me Arod isn't going to end up one of the greatest players ever to play the game? Probably even top 10? He's having a sub-par season and it's still better than allot of people. Also your right, Mac isn't guilty. I never argued that. I said that if Bonds is guilty so is Mac. Also your original post about Arod definitely sounded like you thought he was so unworthy like he's some bum just called up from single A ball to play third.

Daywalker

09-11-2006, 08:14 PM

It's safe to say that Pujols will end up a top 10 caliber player. Griffey was always projected to one of the greatest players ever before his injury. Why are you acting like what I'm saying is so crazy. Your telling me Arod isn't going to end up one of the greatest players ever to play the game? Probably even top 10? He's having a sub-par season and it's still better than allot of people. Also your right, Mac isn't guilty. I never argued that. I said that if Bonds is guilty so is Mac. Also your original post about Arod definitely sounded like you thought he was so unworthy like he's some bum just called up from single A ball to play third.

i never said arod wasnt good - infact if we made a list of the best 25 players he would prob be there - but i simply said that hes not in the top 10 - ur hte one that ran with me saying he sucked and i hated him

Underdog07

09-11-2006, 11:14 PM

Do you really? I'm not being an assbag I'm really asking.

I do. Even if he were proven to be a ped user, what he likely used was not against baseball's rules and, while illegal in the US, not illegal in other countries. Additionally, assuming he was juiced, it is very likely that many others were juiced, including pitchers that he had to face.

I give Bonds the edge over the other gods of baseball because of the world we live in today. Bonds faces off against the best players in the world, irregardless of whether they are black, white, blue, green or yellow. Bonds also faces closers and specialized relief pitchers. Something that many baseball gods would never have fathomed.

Its basically the time machine question. Who would play better and be more dominant - Bonds in the Ruth era or Ruth in the Bonds era. A lot of people like to point out that Ruth also pitched, but being a multi-position player doesn't trump the sheer force that Bonds is. And, who knows, Bonds might be able to pitch.

And yes, I think barring injury that Arod will take a spot as one of the top 2 or 3 players of all time. If he stays healthy, he will be passing Bonds as the HR king in about 7 years.

Oh, and yes, I was born and raised in Cleveland. I moved to NYC in 1995 to attend law school.

The General

09-12-2006, 08:50 AM

I do. Even if he were proven to be a ped user, what he likely used was not against baseball's rules and, while illegal in the US, not illegal in other countries. Additionally, assuming he was juiced, it is very likely that many others were juiced, including pitchers that he had to face.

I agree dude. I would go as far as to say that the majority of MLB players today are still taking something there not supposed to or will be illegal in a few years.

DEAD_MAN

09-12-2006, 12:41 PM

Albert Pujols should be the MVP he has good numbers all around:
plus Albert did not play in 18 games,
plus he has put his team up a head when they were down.

Albert Pujols
• Ranks 4th in NL in BA (.327) • Ranks 2nd in NL in HR (45)
• Ranks 2rd in NL in RBI (123) • Ranks 6th in NL in RUNS (111)
• Ranks 3rd in NL in OBP (.424) • Ranks 1st in NL in SLG (.677)
• Ranks 1st in NL in OPS (1.101) • Ranks 9th in NL in BB (84)

Ryan Howard
• Ranks 6th in NL in BA (.313) • Ranks 1st in NL in HR (56)
• Ranks 1st in NL in RBI (140) • Ranks 13th in NL in RUNS (97)
• Ranks 4th in NL in OBP (.414) • Ranks 2nd in NL in SLG (.674)
• Ranks 2nd in NL in OPS (1.088) • Ranks 6th in NL in BB (91)

DEAD_MAN

09-14-2006, 01:30 AM

Oh an Albert struck out 118 times fewer than Howard

DEAD_MAN

09-17-2006, 01:54 AM

Looks like Pujols is doing better in more area's
he also went 4-4 today.

DEAD_MAN

09-19-2006, 02:32 AM

DEAD_MAN

09-19-2006, 02:38 AM

Ryan Howard Has Struck Out 166 times this year.
and he never even stole one base.

Albert Pujols Strucked out only 44 times.

nolilia

11-21-2006, 01:30 PM

Ryan Howard Has Struck Out 166 times this year.
and he never even stole one base.

Albert Pujols Strucked out only 44 times.

Its over man. Ryan Howard is the MVP. 21 First place votes against 12 for Albert Pujols. :buttrock:

Second man in MLB history to become an MVP after becoming Rookie of the year. Congrats again.