Who's the AL MVP? This should be good.

[The General]

IMO it's either Jeter or Dye. My vote and it has nothing to do with me being a Yankee fan - is Jeter. That long stretch where we had guys injured and guys on the DL Jeter has carried the Yanks. Numbers don't always tell the whole story and it's not like his numbers stink anyway. He's batting almost
.340 in late inning pressure situations. Bottom line is without Jeter I don't think the Yankees would be where their at right now. On the other hand Whitesox lineup is strong and they didn't have injuries like the Yankees had. Also they still haven't overtaken the Tigers. If Dye's numbers stay strong and he carries the Sox to take over the Tigers then that's a different story. As it stands the Yanks overcame all the injuries and not only took the AL East lead they're basically running away with a 9 game lead. Boston pretty much screwed Ortiz out of the MVP. Unless they sneak into the playoffs Ortiz shouldn't get it. Morneau in Minny deserves consideration, even Johan should get some votes - Where would the Twins be without him.

If the season ended today IMO it's Jeter.

Jeter
Dye
Morneau
Ortiz


This is how they would finish today. JMO.

I kept it as real as possible so try to leave your Yankee hate'n crap to a minimum tell the truth here. If you think Jeters numbers aren't strong enough then state your case and state your MVP. Let's have a normal discussion here, no hate.

[Daywalker]

pfft what are u talking about jeter sucks and so does arod - ur just a crazy ass yankee fanboy

but in all seriousness i would agree with u on jeter - like i said in teh howard thread - to be a stand out player on a team with many other stars is what the mvp voters look for - its easy to stand out on a team of nobodies - jeter batting .340 is ludicrious ( especially in the AL ) plus all he does for the yanks - ortiz shouldnt get it for the simple fact that he only hits - granted he hits BIG but no fielding IMO equals no MVP - same about the pitching - a pithcer IMO shouldnt get the MVP since he can get eh cy young ( but again thats just my opinion) - johan is a phenom but again thats what the cy young award is for

[Zurbaran1]

Jeter works for me.

[The General]

pfft what are u talking about jeter sucks and so does arod - ur just a crazy ass yankee fanboy

but in all seriousness i would agree with u on jeter - like i said in teh howard thread - to be a stand out player on a team with many other stars is what the mvp voters look for - its easy to stand out on a team of nobodies - jeter batting .340 is ludicrious ( especially in the AL ) plus all he does for the yanks - ortiz shouldnt get it for the simple fact that he only hits - granted he hits BIG but no fielding IMO equals no MVP - same about the pitching - a pithcer IMO shouldnt get the MVP since he can get eh cy young ( but again thats just my opinion) - johan is a phenom but again thats what the cy young award is for

What you think about Dye?

[Daywalker]

What you think about Dye?

dye shoudl get some legitimate consideration no doubt - hes right in the middle of that deadly 3-4-5 spot in the chisox lienup

plus hes got more HRs and more RBIs then jeter - but dye doesnt add heart to the sox the way jeter does for the yanks - plus if u consider that the yanks had alot of set backs and jeter had to step up as leader - i think that makes him more valuebale then dye - not taking away form what dye has done b/c if u compare the numbers each split right down the middle

dye - R 91 HR 40 RBI 110 SB 7 AVG .325
jeter - R 97 HR 12 RBI 86 SB 29 AVG .343

they each have a claim for MVP but IMO i would say jeter gets it over dye - unless chisox go farther in the playoffs then the yanks

[The General]

dye shoudl get some legitimate consideration no doubt - hes right in the middle of that deadly 3-4-5 spot in the chisox lienup

plus hes got more HRs and more RBIs then jeter - but dye doesnt add heart to the sox the way jeter does for the yanks - plus if u consider that the yanks had alot of set backs and jeter had to step up as leader - i think that makes him more valuebale then dye - not taking away form what dye has done b/c if u compare the numbers each split right down the middle

dye - R 91 HR 40 RBI 110 SB 7 AVG .325
jeter - R 97 HR 12 RBI 86 SB 29 AVG .343

they each have a claim for MVP but IMO i would say jeter gets it over dye - unless chisox go farther in the playoffs then the yanks

Remember that the voting is over before the playoffs even start. We'll see what happens. I have a feeling Ortiz's sympathy votes because of last year is going to cost Jeter the trophy.

[devlinboy]

this has to go to jeter, he is the heart and soul of that team..ortiz had some great clutch hits, but hes been quiet recently and hes a dh. jeter is the total package. dye has been sneaking up but i dont think he is going to beat out jeter.

[nolilia]

David Ortiz before he got health issues.

[The General]

this has to go to jeter, he is the heart and soul of that team..ortiz had some great clutch hits, but hes been quiet recently and hes a dh. jeter is the total package. dye has been sneaking up but i dont think he is going to beat out jeter.

Definitely, if the season ends today he's the MVP. We'll see how this last month plays out.

[madjazz]

David Ortiz before he got health issues.
That's why MVP is for the Season and not just a few month's stretch. He's a great player, though, and I hate seeing quality players on the sidelines.

Not long ago, MVP was neck-and-neck between Ortiz and Jeter. Now that Ortiz has bowed out, I think it is clearly Jeter. As General says, there is still a month left and a lot can happen.

[sincity]

the mvp belongs to Dye
if jeter were playing in florida, detriot, cincionatti, or anywhere else he would get no consideration the east coast bias is what is getting jeter all the unwarranted attention.

should go
Dye
Ortiz
Morneau
then 5 or 6 other guys
Jeter
and don't get me wrong i hate the sox but Dye deserves it unless Big Poppi
comes roaring back

[devlinboy]

i disagree, i dont like jeter or the yankees but if you see what jeter has done day in day out , he deserves this award. the guy has had more big hits than anyone even ortiz. they may not have happened in the bottom of the 9th but he does everything the team needs of him WHEN they need it. like i said i could see dye sneaking past him, but i do think jeter deserves it and i dont see any east coast bias. the guy deserves it. jmo as you have yours

[sincity]

i disagree, i dont like jeter or the yankees but if you see what jeter has done day in day out , he deserves this award. the guy has had more big hits than anyone even ortiz. they may not have happened in the bottom of the 9th but he does everything the team needs of him WHEN they need it. like i said i could see dye sneaking past him, but i do think jeter deserves it and i dont see any east coast bias. the guy deserves it. jmo as you have yours

yours points listed above make jeter an all-star not a MVP IMO
a MVP does all those things and alot more

[devlinboy]

i think those points make him an mvp . without jeter the yanks are barely getting the wildcard..which i wish was happening, im a met fan lol

[madjazz]

i think those points make him an mvp . without jeter the yanks are barely getting the wildcard..which i wish was happening, im a met fan lol
Agreed. Look at all the guys that went down on the Yankees this year. Between Sheffield, Godzilla, E-Rod, Pavano any other team would have been crippled. Jeter has been the glue that has held the team together. At one point the Red Sox had a 5 game lead and that was only a month or so ago. The Yankees now have a 9 1/2 game lead in the AL East and a magic # of 13.

Everyone downplays the Yankees because they are the Yankees. Fact is, if they were Detroit or some other team, people would be hyping their intestinal fortitude.

[sincity]

Agreed. Look at all the guys that went down on the Yankees this year. Between Sheffield, Godzilla, E-Rod, Pavano any other team would have been crippled. Jeter has been the glue that has held the team together. At one point the Red Sox had a 5 game lead and that was only a month or so ago. The Yankees now have a 9 1/2 game lead in the AL East and a magic # of 13.

Everyone downplays the Yankees because they are the Yankees. Fact is, if they were Detroit or some other team, people would be hyping their intestinal fortitude.

i wouldn't call the massive , legendary, downward spiral of the
red sox (only team in MLB history to start month in first place then lose TWENTY games in same month) "Yankee Intestinal Fortitude" the yanks have been given the AL east while the tigers, twins and white sox are battling
if any teams have intestinal fortitude it is the marlins who came back from 20 games under .500 to be in the wild card chase and minnesota to climb back in the wildcard chase/ lead and to be within 5 games of the division
if the yankees had anybody challenging them then i would give them credit but no one is close to them they are winning the divsion by default same as the cardinals and the mets

[The General]

the mvp belongs to Dye
if jeter were playing in florida, detriot, cincionatti, or anywhere else he would get no consideration the east coast bias is what is getting jeter all the unwarranted attention.

should go
Dye
Ortiz
Morneau
then 5 or 6 other guys
Jeter
and don't get me wrong i hate the sox but Dye deserves it unless Big Poppi
comes roaring back

I think your exaggerating just a little bit. Being that you threw this out there can you the the 5 or 6 other guys above Jeter in voting. Just curious.

[Underdog07]

First off, I despise the Yankees.

That being said, the MVP should go to the player with the best statistics. Before being injured today, that was Travis Hafner of the Cleveland Indians. There is no more feared hitter in the AL.

However, over the last 3 years people have created nonesensical MVP rules such as a pitcher can not win and the winner must be on a playoff team because they play more "important" games. Baseball guru Rob Neyer has been advancing the argument that if a losing team can't have the MVP, shouldn't a team with a huge lead also not have the MVP since they are not playing any close games? He does not agree with that argument, but states it to show the foolishness that only 4 teams can possibly have the MVP.

Accepting those two stupid rules, I think the MVP should be Dye. Simply put he has better stats then Jeter and he is more valuable to his team than Jeter is to the Yankees. Take Dye away from the Sox and they are not in contention. Take Jeter away from the Yanks and they still win the division.

Also, Dye has once been player of the month and twice been player of the week. Jeter has received neither. How can you be the best player for the entire season when you never were the best player for any given week?

I know, when stats don't favor your player you argue the great "intangibles". Jeter kept his team together through injuries, depression, a June swoon and marital difficulties. However, if you are not there in the clubhouse, how do you kinow he did any of this? Perhaps it was Bernie's soothing guitar or the Giambi/Fasano mustache wars that kept the team together?

My point is that intangibles are just that intangible. No one knows if they truly exist, so how can they form the basis for an MVP award. Thus Dye should win because his contributions can be measured by one and all.

[Underdog07]

I think your exaggerating just a little bit. Being that you threw this out there can you the the 5 or 6 other guys above Jeter in voting. Just curious.

Off the top of my head I would put the following ahead of Jeter in my MVP voting

Dye
Ortiz
Mournaue
Mauer
Hafner
Giambi
Thomas
Santana
Halladay
Vlad
Vernon Wells
Possibly Sizemore and Damon

[devlinboy]

fasano's mustache wars lol i loved this guy when he was a phiilie, it was fun to see his dumpy floppy hair . he reminded me of a real throwback looking dude. jeter is hitting .340 and has a huge amount of clutch game changing hits and plays...i think dye still has a great chance , and iget all of your points.

[The Watcher]

I would vote for Dye.

Jeter is one of the most overrated players in baseball (IMO). If he didn't play in New York, he wouldn't have the name recognition nor the stats.

Dye is far more important to the White Sox than Jeter is to the Yankees.

[madjazz]

However, over the last 3 years people have created nonesensical MVP rules such as a pitcher can not win and the winner must be on a playoff team because they play more "important" games. Baseball guru Rob Neyer has been advancing the argument that if a losing team can't have the MVP, shouldn't a team with a huge lead also not have the MVP since they are not playing any close games? He does not agree with that argument, but states it to show the foolishness that only 4 teams can possibly have the MVP.

Accepting those two stupid rules, I think the MVP should be Dye. Simply put he has better stats then Jeter and he is more valuable to his team than Jeter is to the Yankees. Take Dye away from the Sox and they are not in contention. Take Jeter away from the Yanks and they still win the division.

Also, Dye has once been player of the month and twice been player of the week. Jeter has received neither. How can you be the best player for the entire season when you never were the best player for any given week?

I know, when stats don't favor your player you argue the great "intangibles". Jeter kept his team together through injuries, depression, a June swoon and marital difficulties. However, if you are not there in the clubhouse, how do you kinow he did any of this? Perhaps it was Bernie's soothing guitar or the Giambi/Fasano mustache wars that kept the team together?

My point is that intangibles are just that intangible. No one knows if they truly exist, so how can they form the basis for an MVP award. Thus Dye should win because his contributions can be measured by one and all.
A team does not have to win to have the MVP in my book. Ortiz is still a candidate if he comes back and resumes form for the rest of the year.

The Yankees have won a lot of one run games and high pressure games, so sorry, but that does count for extra. I also disagree that if Jeter is not there that the Yankees still win the division.

Anyone can win Player of the Week if they get exceptionally hot for a few games in a row. One of the reasons Jeter gets MVP is because he does not swoon - He plays consistent ball and at a high level. He is currently rated the best shortstop in Baseball and that is using objective measures.

The award is Jeter's to lose at this point IMO.

[sincity]

i agree that jeter is the best shortstop
HOWEVER
the only reason jeter is the best shortstop playing is because the best shortstop in the game is stuck at third next to him
if jeter had enough talent to play third the yankees would have put him there
the cold hard truth is he doesn't so a-rod plays third and does the job jeter would never, could never do IMO

[Daywalker]

i agree that jeter is the best shortstop
HOWEVER
the only reason jeter is the best shortstop playing is because the best shortstop in the game is stuck at third next to him
if jeter had enough talent to play third the yankees would have put him there
the cold hard truth is he doesn't so a-rod plays third and does the job jeter would never, could never do IMO

i gotta disagree - arod moved to thrid b/c when he came to NY jeter was captian and outta curteousy they asked arod to move to 3rd instead of jeter - also jeter is talented - he coulda moved to 3rd as easily as arod did

[sincity]

i gotta disagree - arod moved to thrid b/c when he came to NY jeter was captian and outta curteousy they asked arod to move to 3rd instead of jeter - also jeter is talented - he coulda moved to 3rd as easily as arod did

the one thing the yankees do not practice is curtesy they are a win at all cost franchise if the yankees thought jeter could play third and still win jeter's @ss would be at third captain or no captain
jeter just can't handle the hot corner not many can that is why third basemen are so valuable not many can put up the numbers a-rod does and stiil play a respectable third
however jeter could play second

[The General]

Off the top of my head I would put the following ahead of Jeter in my MVP voting

Dye
Ortiz
Mournaue
Mauer
Hafner
Giambi
Thomas
Santana
Halladay
Vlad
Vernon Wells
Possibly Sizemore and Damon
Dude your crazy. Vlad? Sizemore? :laugh: That brought a smile to my face. I totally disagree as far as importance to their respective teams. Yanks might have still taken the division but it would be because the Red Sawx suck not because Jeter isn't valuable to the team - They would have struggled to win that division if it wasn't for the season Jeter has had thus far. If he wasn't having the MVP caliber season he is there is no way in hell we would have a 9 game lead right now. Not with the all the injuries and early season pitching problems. Without Dye the Sox would still be right in it. It's not like Dye has been carrying them all year and without him they'd be lost.

Numbers matter but they're not everything because if it was Ortiz would be the MVP or Hafner if he wouldn't have gotten hurt. You show that list to to a bunch of sportscasters, reporters you probably wouldn't get 2 guys to agree with you. I'm not saying Jeter is a lock and everyone else sucks but there is no way in hell Jeter isn't at least in the top 5 of the MVP voting. That's just crazy.

This trophy has to go to either Jeter, Dye or Morneau IMO. But it's close and we got allot of baseball left to play. That being said if the season ended today, I'd give it to Jeter. It would be close but right now it's Jeter. It's only in the last month and change Dye has looked like a legit MVP candidate before that he was just putting up a solid season. Like I said earlier - If Dye keeps this up and the White Sox actually catch the Tigers then that's a different story, but If the Sox don't take that division Dye isn't the MVP IMO.

[Underdog07]

Sizemore: 119R 23HR 66RBI 21SB 295 AVG
Vlad: 82R 28HR 109RBI 15SB 330AVG
Jeter: 97R 12HR 87RBI 27SB 344AVG

Taking Sizemore's runs and hr over Jeter's RBI, SB and AVG or Vlad's HR and RBI over Jeter's R, SB and AVG is crazy? The numbers of each of them are very very similar. Your response though demonstrates something: why you can't actually discuss anything with a Yankee fan. Yankee fans always hold the trump card by making arguments like: "Yeah but Jeter slapped Giambi's butt after a double play and kissed a young fan thereby pumping up the team and inspiring Randy Johnson to become a Cy Young pitcher, Jonas Salk to cure Polio and God to invent chewing gum, teddy bears and fireman."

Now how can that be topped by little Ole Grady Sizemore?

[madjazz]

Using your numbers, if you add Runs and RBIs, they are all kind of equal. Jeter has the edge in average and stolen bases. Sorry, but just using the numbers you have posted, empiracally Jeter edges these other two guys. It does not belittle the other two guys' accomplishments.As General said in his last post and I have also acknowledged, there is still a solid month of games left and a lot of things can change in this time.

[The General]

Sizemore: 119R 23HR 66RBI 21SB 295 AVG
Vlad: 82R 28HR 109RBI 15SB 330AVG
Jeter: 97R 12HR 87RBI 27SB 344AVG

Taking Sizemore's runs and hr over Jeter's RBI, SB and AVG or Vlad's HR and RBI over Jeter's R, SB and AVG is crazy? The numbers of each of them are very very similar. Your response though demonstrates something: why you can't actually discuss anything with a Yankee fan. Yankee fans always hold the trump card by making arguments like: "Yeah but Jeter slapped Giambi's butt after a double play and kissed a young fan thereby pumping up the team and inspiring Randy Johnson to become a Cy Young pitcher, Jonas Salk to cure Polio and God to invent chewing gum, teddy bears and fireman."

Now how can that be topped by little Ole Grady Sizemore?

Pretty funny. Not for nothing but you wreak of Yankee hater bro. I'm not one of "those" Yankee fans you speak of. I didn't make any outrageous statements and I have my 2 feet planted firmly in reality. I'm not going to say Wang is the Cy Young, Giambi is better than Ortiz or Jeter indirectly cured flipp'n Polio. Give me a break. You on the other hand have every player short of Coco Crisp coming in before Jeter in the MVP voting.

How you going to come out and basically say I'm one of these delusional crazy Yankee fans meanwhile your there saying the crazy stuff your saying?? You know as well as I do that Sizemore & Vlad and most of that crazy list have absolutely 0 chance of winning the MVP barring an offensive barrage and standings shift the likes baseball has never seen. Sizemore doesn't even factor into the MVP race. When your on a crappy team like he is unless he wins the triple crown he'll never get MVP consideration on a crappy team like that, and even then unless he bats .400 and gets 60 homeruns he still may not get it. I'm not 100% sure but I think there once was a guy who won the triple crown and didn't win the MVP, I'll try and find out who.


I'm going to ask the dumbest question ever - Are you a Mets fan?

[Underdog07]

Well, you did call me crazy after I responded to the question who would I put ahead of Jeter. Now the question has become who will/would the writer's vote for and, as an avid baseball fan, I know the answer to that is Dye, Jeter, Hafner, Santana, Morneau and possible Mauer. But asking my opinion and then changing the question does not make for a fair argument.

My list reflects the players who are statistically at or above the level of Jeter.

And honestly I think Sizemore putting up those numbers for $300k makes him more valuable than Jeter for $20M.

At least you said Wang shouldn't win the Cy Young. I hear that all day on sports talk. Along with beauties like: Torre should be manager of the year for having the courage to stick with ARod and Cashman is a genius for seeing the talent in Bobby Abreu (every fantasy baseball owner in the world knows Bobby's value).

And nope, I am not a Mets fan - I'm an Indians fan.

[Underdog07]

Using your numbers, if you add Runs and RBIs, they are all kind of equal. Jeter has the edge in average and stolen bases. Sorry, but just using the numbers you have posted, empiracally Jeter edges these other two guys. It does not belittle the other two guys' accomplishments.As General said in his last post and I have also acknowledged, there is still a solid month of games left and a lot of things can change in this time.

You do realize that you have just totally discounted the HR numbers where the other two outshine Jeter. I don't necessarily give the edge to Jeter over Vlad when he has 14 more points in AVG and 12 more steals, but 16 less HRs. And those num bers are not some abherent to make the argument or comparison nonsensical or a slam dunk either way. Those numbers are pretty dead even.

[madjazz]

You do realize that you have just totally discounted the HR numbers where the other two outshine Jeter. I don't necessarily give the edge to Jeter over Vlad when he has 14 more points in AVG and 12 more steals, but 16 less HRs. And those num bers are not some abherent to make the argument or comparison nonsensical or a slam dunk either way. Those numbers are pretty dead even.
I have not discounted homers. They are reflected in both the Run and RBI categories. Jeter is a leadoff hitter, not a clean up hitter. HR becomes much more important when comparing batters whose role it is to hit HRs. Jeter's role is to get on base and he does it well.

[The General]

Well, you did call me crazy after I responded to the question who would I put ahead of Jeter. Now the question has become who will/would the writer's vote for and, as an avid baseball fan, I know the answer to that is Dye, Jeter, Hafner, Santana, Morneau and possible Mauer. But asking my opinion and then changing the question does not make for a fair argument.

My list reflects the players who are statistically at or above the level of Jeter.

And honestly I think Sizemore putting up those numbers for $300k makes him more valuable than Jeter for $20M.

At least you said Wang shouldn't win the Cy Young. I hear that all day on sports talk. Along with beauties like: Torre should be manager of the year for having the courage to stick with ARod and Cashman is a genius for seeing the talent in Bobby Abreu (every fantasy baseball owner in the world knows Bobby's value).

And nope, I am not a Mets fan - I'm an Indians fan.
I asked who you thought was ahead of Jeter in the MVP voting, not who had better stats. That's why I called you crazy. If Wang lowers his era and ends up with the most wins he does make a strong case for cy young. Santana keeps it up and he's going to get a good amount of votes.

Indians fan in New York. Were you raised in Cleavland?

[The General]

Also salary has nothing to do with who's the MVP. So that means Ortiz should have gotten the MVP last year because he made less money than Arod??? Everyone hates Jeter and says he's overrated but every team would kill for him to be their shortstop. Go figure.

Met's, braves & Red Sawx suck :buttrock:

[sincity]

I asked who you thought was ahead of Jeter in the MVP voting, not who had better stats. That's why I called you crazy. If Wang lowers his era and ends up with the most wins he does make a strong case for cy young. Santana keeps it up and he's going to get a good amount of votes.

Indians fan in New York. Were you raised in Cleavland?

Wang for Cy Young??? Jeter for MVP???

what the hell give the yankees all the awards even the national league ones, i mean they did play interleague games right?

[Daywalker]

Also salary has nothing to do with who's the MVP. So that means Ortiz should have gotten the MVP last year because he made less money than Arod??? Everyone hates Jeter and says he's overrated but every team would kill for him to be their shortstop. Go figure.

Met's, braves & Red Sawx suck :buttrock:

yeah and everyteam would kill to have pujols as thier firstbase man or have vlad in their lineup or have santana on their mound

did u just run out of statments in ur "yankees pre-approved comeback roledex" ??

[madjazz]

yeah and everyteam would kill to have pujols as thier firstbase man or have vlad in their lineup or have santana on their mound

did u just run out of statments in ur "yankees pre-approved comeback roledex" ??

:laugh:

[JadeGiant]

none of the above

Johan Santana would get my vote right now.

look at the Twinkies record without him - they are barely .500. They make the post season because he is there, without him they are already planning their offseason. And since Liriano went down? undefeated!

Check the numbers!

18-5
2.75
230 Ks

... Triple crown numbers in the majors, not just the AL (also first in the AL in whip, BA against, and IP)

... and he started the season 0-3

the fact that there is no other player running away like Howard is offensively ... I would go with JS

Nobody is as valuable to their team that JS

[The General]

Wang for Cy Young??? Jeter for MVP???

what the hell give the yankees all the awards even the national league ones, i mean they did play interleague games right?

Pretty funny. I won't even touch the Jeter thing because it's not like I pulled it out of my ass. I'm not the only one that thinks so. It's all over ESPN, newspapers and radio. But I will comment on Wang. It's not like I said Sizemore could win the MVP, Wang winning the Cy Young wouldn't be the weirdest thing ever. I said that if Wang were to lower his ERA and end up with the most wins he would have to be considered. I didn't say he was the Cy Young or should win it. Why Wang isn't being mentioned at the moment is only because of his strikeouts, BUT if he were to lower his ERA under 3.00 and end up with the most wins he makes a strong case. He's basically been lights out since all-star break. Even if Wang does these things he probably wouldn't win but like I said, I said this would make him a contender.

[Zurbaran1]

Pretty funny. I won't even touch the Jeter thing because it's not like I pulled it out of my ass...

You didn't happen to find a cellphone while you were up there, did you? :)

[The General]

yeah and everyteam would kill to have pujols as thier firstbase man or have vlad in their lineup or have santana on their mound

did u just run out of statments in ur "yankees pre-approved comeback roledex" ??

Dude your reaching right now. What was that like a million posts ago??? You just made my point. I agree, teams would kill to have Pujols, Santana and Jeter because they're great players and the last part was just another one of your desperate one-liners to save face. Besides smart ass I made a statement, it wasn't a comeback. Damn bro you can't even tell when were actually debating anymore. I'll try to take it easy on you.

[The General]

You didn't happen to find a cellphone while you were up there, did you? :)

Why you need to make a phone call?

[Zurbaran1]

Why you need to make a phone call?

Not under those circumstances. Just thought it might tie in nicely with this thread (http://statueforum.com/showthread.php?p=821063#post821063)

[Daywalker]

Dude your reaching right now. What was that like a million posts ago??? You just made my point. I agree, teams would kill to have Pujols, Santana and Jeter because they're great players and the last part was just another one of your desperate one-liners to save face. Besides smart ass I made a statement, it wasn't a comeback. Damn bro you can't even tell when were actually debating anymore. I'll try to take it easy on you.

dude your broad generalizations and quick dismissing statments are so empty its funny that u think u make sense - all of ur pro-yankee responses are the same damn statements

serisouly most of ur replies involve the same content either "everyone hates (fill in yankee ) but u would love to have him on ur team" - or "u just made my point" - well what point is that ? that u cant responed to anyhting so youll just claim that i made u look correct ?? "bonds is innocent till proven guilty" - well he has been found guilty so since clearly ur wrong about that ur going to dismiss my fact with ur "we gotta give him the benifit of the doubt" or "well look at this other person or that other person" - we arent talking about other players - we where talking bonds - but since u have no way of discussing it u have to try to draw the attn away form the subject and try to push heat onto other players - why would u bring up clemens ?? nobody in any way shape or form mentioned clemens - we where talking about bonds - plain and simple but since u had no leg to stand on that he has been found guilty ( bottom line ) of using controled substances you just tried to deflect to someone else and throw acusations away from ur beloved juice boy - if anyone reaches its u when u are drowning in ur puddle of yankee-fanboyism and your man-love affair for bonds

[The General]

dude your broad generalizations and quick dismissing statments are so empty its funny that u think u make sense - all of ur pro-yankee responses are the same damn statements

serisouly most of ur replies involve the same content either "everyone hates (fill in yankee ) but u would love to have him on ur team" - or "u just made my point" - well what point is that ? that u cant responed to anyhting so youll just claim that i made u look correct ?? "bonds is innocent till proven guilty" - well he has been found guilty so since clearly ur wrong about that ur going to dismiss my fact with ur "we gotta give him the benifit of the doubt" or "well look at this other person or that other person" - we arent talking about other players - we where talking bonds - but since u have no way of discussing it u have to try to draw the attn away form the subject and try to push heat onto other players - why would u bring up clemens ?? nobody in any way shape or form mentioned clemens - we where talking about bonds - plain and simple but since u had no leg to stand on that he has been found guilty ( bottom line ) of using controled substances you just tried to deflect to someone else and throw acusations away from ur beloved juice boy - if anyone reaches its u when u are drowning in ur puddle of yankee-fanboyism and your man-love affair for bonds
Well at least you believe that stuff you just shoveled my way. At the end of every smackdown I give you it never fails you always come out with one of these speeches. Also find me the headline where Bonds was convicted? He hasn’t even gone to trial bro, what the hell are you talking about??? He testified that he unknowingly took a banned substance. If was guilty he would have been convicted and he would have been suspended already. None of these things have happened. Bonds is innocent until they find a dirty test or proof that he knowingly took steroids. How are you going to say something totally not true to prove I’m wrong. It’s not the first time you say something that wasn’t true to make a point. It’s like when you said with so much conviction that the last couple of years Bonds was declining meanwhile in the last 4 seasons Bonds has won 3 MVP’s and the one year he didn’t he missed with injury. You’ve convicted him and found him guilty not the courts or MLB.

Also kill the fanboy BS because the last person who should be throwing that phrase around is you. The thing is I bombard you with so many facts and points your left with nothing except your fanboy comments and your BS psyche talk. Another stone you threw in the glass house was that I try to distract away from the subject - that was great. You’re the master of that. Broad generalizations???? All men are dogs is a broad generalization, nothing I said about Jeter, Arod or Bonds was a “broad generalization”. You dissect my posts picking and choosing parts of what I say and then you super analyze it with your psych crap – Meanwhile all the points that you have no answers for (pretty much all of them) you don’t touch them. Things like this happen when a person has no answers or valid arguments. Like I said, I’ll take it easy on you from now on or better yet just bite my tongue when I read you’re over the top ultimate supreme Met fanboy comments. I’m not retarded dude, I able to read & write the same way you can.

[Daywalker]

Well at least you believe that stuff you just shoveled my way. At the end of every smackdown I give you it never fails you always come out with one of these speeches. Also find me the headline where Bonds was convicted? He hasn’t even gone to trial bro, what the hell are you talking about??? He testified that he unknowingly took a banned substance. If was guilty he would have been convicted and he would have been suspended already. None of these things have happened. Bonds is innocent until they find a dirty test or proof that he knowingly took steroids. How are you going to say something totally not true to prove I’m wrong. It’s not the first time you say something that wasn’t true to make a point. It’s like when you said with so much conviction that the last couple of years Bonds was declining meanwhile in the last 4 seasons Bonds has won 3 MVP’s and the one year he didn’t he missed with injury. You’ve convicted him and found him guilty not the courts or MLB.

Also kill the fanboy BS because the last person who should be throwing that phrase around is you. The thing is I bombard you with so many facts and points your left with nothing except your fanboy comments and your BS psyche talk. Another stone you threw in the glass house was that I try to distract away from the subject - that was great. You’re the master of that. Broad generalizations???? All men are dogs is a broad generalization, nothing I said about Jeter, Arod or Bonds was a “broad generalization”. You dissect my posts picking and choosing parts of what I say and then you super analyze it with your psych crap – Meanwhile all the points that you have no answers for (pretty much all of them) you don’t touch them. Things like this happen when a person has no answers or valid arguments. Like I said, I’ll take it easy on you from now on or better yet just bite my tongue when I read you’re over the top ultimate supreme Met fanboy comments. I’m not retarded dude, I able to read & write the same way you can.

again u just prooved my point - a whole lot of dribble but nothing other then misdirecting from the point - where in ur endless rant did u answer my questions as to why u always bring up other players whenever we talk about bonds ? - no response - u constantly say u throw facts my way ? where ? what facts besides ur normal 5 or so that u use everytime u talk about the yanks or bonds - and ur calling me a met fanboy ? ok well ur just as much a yankee fanboy so just learnt to deal with it - just as ur a bonds fanboy - i know its hard for u to accept but u need to - really once u admit it u can let the healing begin

and as far as bonds being guilty - HE ADMITTED TO IT - thats the same as being found guilty - why is it different cuz he added that he "didnt know" - bottom line he admitted to using thus he is guilty - go ahead and spin some misdirecting circular logic to try to explain it but the bottom line is he used and admitted it so he is guilty regardless of the excuse he uses to claim he was unknowing - if a suspected murderer confesses to a crime he is still guilty - or can someone just say i didnt know i killed him and therefore it should be alright

[Collection King 13]

David Ortiz before he got health issues.

He doesnt play any defense! so how could he be MVP? :banghead:

[JadeGiant]

Do General and DW go at it like this at the mafia meetings? That would be worth the price of admission. Somebody setup a debate for these two and tape it ... I want to see this LIVE!:laugh:

[The General]

again u just prooved my point - a whole lot of dribble but nothing other then misdirecting from the point - where in ur endless rant did u answer my questions as to why u always bring up other players whenever we talk about bonds ? - no response - u constantly say u throw facts my way ? where ? what facts besides ur normal 5 or so that u use everytime u talk about the yanks or bonds - and ur calling me a met fanboy ? ok well ur just as much a yankee fanboy so just learnt to deal with it - just as ur a bonds fanboy - i know its hard for u to accept but u need to - really once u admit it u can let the healing begin

and as far as bonds being guilty - HE ADMITTED TO IT - thats the same as being found guilty - why is it different cuz he added that he "didnt know" - bottom line he admitted to using thus he is guilty - go ahead and spin some misdirecting circular logic to try to explain it but the bottom line is he used and admitted it so he is guilty regardless of the excuse he uses to claim he was unknowing - if a suspected murderer confesses to a crime he is still guilty - or can someone just say i didnt know i killed him and therefore it should be alright

Okay first you still have proved ZERO. Misdirecting my ass. You bring up this horrible murder analogy and I’m misdirecting. I didn’t know I killed him and saying that I didn’t know he gave me that is 2 completely different things. If I was a dishonest trainer I know I would consider giving someone a banned substance without their knowledge, so that way when their numbers are boosted they will tell other players that I’m the man then everyone will come to me to get trained and to get my so-called nutritional supplements. Shooting someone and saying I didn’t know I killed him is just ridiculous. Worst comparison ever.

Okay bastich let’s stick strictly to Bonds which just like almost everything else you have proven absolutely nothing. Bonds saying that he didn’t know what he was taking makes all the difference in the world, are you kidding me? Those investigators found out that balco dude was giving some players banned substances, they approach Bonds and say hey you were one of those guys taking his stuff – Bonds says “he told me it was so & so”, “ I didn’t know it was a banned substance”. Which brings me to Bonds hasn’t given anyone a reason not to believe him. It’s not like Bonds is known as the biggest liar ever, there is no reason not to believe what he is saying. Why is that so hard for you to accept? It might be the bottom line to you but your whole “he admitted it thus he’s guilty” thing, that’s your opinion not fact. Big difference. Guilty is when the courts say your guilty, and then MLB suspends you, that’s guilty. Palmeiro is guilty. Grimsley is guilty. Last time I checked Bonds is still on a MLB roster and still hasn’t gone to trial. Thank God you’re not in charge of the legal system. You would convict and hang people with no trial. You accuse me of ranting; misdirecting and you are the master of all these things. Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t start this Bonds debate again – We were debating the AL MVP and the Arod top 10 thing. You had no answers as usual and now you shifted this into Bonds again. All you have is your personal dislike for the man and a bunch of assumptions. Fact is that he has not been proven guilty. That is 100% fact. He admitted to “unknowingly” taking banned substances. 100% fact. He didn’t admit to knowingly taking steroids the way Giambi did. 100% fact. How can you argue these things? You know one thing is to say that you feel that Arod isn’t a potential top 10 player and actually bring up valid arguments, that’s cool. Is Arod better than Ruth? Definitely not. Will he be? Probably not. Before you accuse me of misdirecting, I’m trying to make a point. Point being that you cannot argue fact. It’s my opinion that Arod will probably end up being one of the 10 best players ever, that’s my opinion. That’s something that can be argued. All these things I stated about Bonds on the other hand are fact. Any argument you can bring up about those points would be opinion and hear say. It’s not like there’s a dirty test out there and I’m in denial saying the test is wrong. The only opinion or personal feelings I have put into this is that I feel that Bonds should be taken at his word because he has never given us a reason not to believe him. The bottom line is that he hasn’t stood trail for the balco thing yet, he hasn’t been suspended from MLB, he has not dirty tests – I’m not a lawyer and I didn’t go to college but I’m pretty sure this means he isn’t guilty, yet. Will he be when the smoke clears? I don’t know I’m not a flipp’n fortune teller. I’m not saying I think Bonds is innocent, never did. I don’t know if he is or isn’t. What I’ve been saying from day 1 is that Bonds is innocent until proven guilty and that he’s no more obvious a steroid user than a long list of other players. That’s been my argument and I haven’t swayed from that. After his trial is over and the truth comes out either way then we can have this discussion. That’s my ultimate point, until this happens you have no argument. About the only thing we can realistically debate is if Bonds is the most obvious user, that’s about it.

[The General]

Do General and DW go at it like this at the mafia meetings? That would be worth the price of admission. Somebody setup a debate for these two and tape it ... I want to see this LIVE!:laugh:

You would think we hate each other but the funny thing is we don’t. We just can’t talk baseball. I won’t speak for him but I actually think DW is cool he just doesn’t know crap about baseball.:)

[JadeGiant]

You would think we hate each other but the funny thing is we don’t. We just can’t talk baseball. I won’t speak for him but I actually think DW is cool he just doesn’t know crap about baseball.:)

Nah, I get it ... you just don't see eye to eye for baseball ... it is entertaining

[DEAD_MAN]

I hate the yank-these
but Jeter is the man:banghead:

[Daywalker]

You would think we hate each other but the funny thing is we don’t. We just can’t talk baseball. I won’t speak for him but I actually think DW is cool he just doesn’t know crap about baseball.:)

lol - yeah general and i are totally cool - we just dont agree on baseball

and to to all my lil hulksters out there, this is an example of an adult discussion where 2 ppl can have a differance of opinion but yet not get into calling each other names and getting overly-emotional about things or causing drama that leads to bannings and such

general is :thumbs2: in my book ( hes just way too inlove with bonds and the yanks:eplus2: )

[The General]

lol - yeah general and i are totally cool - we just dont agree on baseball

and to to all my lil hulksters out there, this is an example of an adult discussion where 2 ppl can have a differance of opinion but yet not get into calling each other names and getting overly-emotional about things or causing drama that leads to bannings and such

general is :thumbs2: in my book ( hes just way too inlove with bonds and the yanks:eplus2: )

I'm rubber your glue bro.:buttrock:

[JadeGiant]

lol - yeah general and i are totally cool - we just dont agree on baseball

and to to all my lil hulksters out there, this is an example of an adult discussion where 2 ppl can have a differance of opinion but yet not get into calling each other names and getting overly-emotional about things or causing drama that leads to bannings and such

general is :thumbs2: in my book ( hes just way too inlove with bonds and the yanks )

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[The General]

Just to show I’m not the only one that thinks Jeter is the MVP. If you look to the bottom right of the picture “the whole World” thinks Jeter is the MVP.:laugh:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/genhova49/JeterMVP.gif

[Zurbaran1]

I'm rubber your glue bro.:buttrock:

You condom you.

[The General]

You condom you.

Bro you just called yourself a condom.:eplus2:

You suck Zurb.

[Daywalker]

im surprised dye got so little votes - i thought he'd be a close 2nd - and ortiz got alot more then i expected - i guess alot of ppl dont care that he doesnt play the field

[The General]

im surprised dye got so little votes - i thought he'd be a close 2nd - and ortiz got alot more then i expected - i guess alot of ppl dont care that he doesnt play the field

I was very surprised at the results also. I didn't think the Jeter turnout would be that strong. Lots of baseball left. It's going to be a toss up between Dye, Jeter and the Twins whole roster.

[sincity]

its seems to me matsui had a lot of free time recently to vote on that poll
oh, about 61,000 time massive voter fraud

[The General]

its me it seems matsui had a lot of time recently to vote on that poll
oh, about 61,000 time massive voter fraud

:stick:

[sincity]

i'm surpised the general hasn't declared joe torre manager of the year yet!

[boondocksaint]

im surprised dye got so little votes - i thought he'd be a close 2nd - and ortiz got alot more then i expected - i guess alot of ppl dont care that he doesnt play the field

same here...

[sincity]

im surprised dye got so little votes - i thought he'd be a close 2nd - and ortiz got alot more then i expected - i guess alot of ppl dont care that he doesnt play the field

another glaring example of the east coast bias
hello there are more than the original 13 colonies

[Daywalker]

another glaring example of the east coast bias
hello there are more than the original 13 colonies

east coast :buttrock: :buttrock:

[boondocksaint]

east coast :buttrock: :buttrock:

word!!!!!:buttrock:

[Underdog07]

i'm surpised the general hasn't declared joe torre manager of the year yet!


You hear arguments about this on talk radio. One argument advanced is that he showed the courage to stick with ARod. Well, hot damn, let's play the best player in baseball, look at how smart me is am being. You can easily add to that argument with gems like: Torre knows not to play Mussina at 1st base or to pitch Craig Wilson.

Seriously though, why can't Yankee fans be content with winning the division and heading into the play-offs as the favorites. Instead, they want some sort of vindication and want the sports talk hosts to annoint players like Melky Cabrera as the next coming of Willie Mays (ths comes up when the hosts say if healthy Sheffield wil play over Cabrera). And when the hosts refuse, the Yankee fans act as if you have just defiled every living and dead member of their families.

Another inane argument - Cashman is a genius for going after Abreau. Let's use the fantasy baseball test on this one. Bobby Abreau was picked roughly 15th overall in all of ESPNs live drafts. That means that this entire planet knew his abilities. To argue that only Cashman someone had a gut instinct idea that he would be an outstanding player is ludicrous.

However, we can't just blame Yankee fans for this. If you listen to Yankee games, the announcers - especially Paul O'Neil and Al Leiter - make these types of idiotic comments all the time. For example, O'Neil advanced this argument:

Abreau won the 05 All Star HR Derby and then hit under 10 HRs in his next full season, commonly referred to as the HR Derby curse. This year, Howard won the HR Derby and proceeded to continue hitting HRs after he won. O'Neil explained this by noting that Howard played in a band box so it was easier for him to hit HRs. Hello? He and Abreu played on the same team and, I would assume, played in the same home ball park.

[Underdog07]

Just to show I’m not the only one that thinks Jeter is the MVP. If you look to the bottom right of the picture “the whole World” thinks Jeter is the MVP.:laugh:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/genhova49/JeterMVP.gif

Me thinks that fan voting got a little out of control. Here is the progression:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?page=mvptracker060912

How is it that on Sept 1st Dye garnered 72.1% opf the votes and now he only has 17.5%. After all, Jeter is no longer playing any "meaningful" games so we need to discount his Sept.

[sincity]

to the casual baseball fan it appears all awards belong to the yankees and others must pry them away

[Underdog07]

to the casual baseball fan it appears all awards belong to the yankees and others must pry them away

And the Yankee fan feels they are entitled to every award and accolade under the sun and consider it a personal insult when their pipedreams do not come to fruition.

[The General]

i'm surpised the general hasn't declared joe torre manager of the year yet!

Me too.:stick:

[The General]

Wow you gotta love Yankee haters. Saying Jeter is worthy of MVP consideration isn't an off the wall comment, neither is saying Wang is worthy of Cy Young consideration - If he lowers his era under 3 and ends up with the most wins how could you not consider him?? Even then he won't win but nobody can deny that he's having a Cy Young caliber season. If he ever learns a strike out pitch he's going to be an even bigger monster than he is. But now way can you deny Santana the award, he's currently in triple crown status - he even leads in innings pitched.

I'm sure those crazy Yankee fans you haters bring up exist, the ones that think a Yankees should win every award and all this other crazy crap you haters are bringing up but I'm sure as hell not one of these ignorant delusional Yankee fans. So aim the dumb comments somewhere else. I'm a die hard Yankee fan but I'm not delusional and I know baseball. I joke around saying I'm a living baseball almanac but I'm just joking. I don't know everything but I'm not clueless either. You Yankee haters are out of control. Channel that energy into cheering for your F'n team instead of despising the Yankees and pointing out every mistake that Torre, Cashmen, Jeter or Arod ****ing make.

[boondocksaint]

Wow you gotta love Yankee haters. Saying Jeter is worthy of MVP consideration isn't an off the wall comment, neither is saying Wang is worthy of Cy Young consideration - If he lowers his era under 3 and ends up with the most wins how could you not consider him?? Even then he won't win but nobody can deny that he's having a Cy Young caliber season. If he ever learns a strike out pitch he's going to be an even bigger monster than he is. But now way can you deny Santana the award, he's currently in triple crown status - he even leads in innings pitched.

I'm sure those crazy Yankee fans you haters bring up exist, the ones that think a Yankees should win every award and all this other crazy crap you haters are bringing up but I'm sure as hell not one of these ignorant delusional Yankee fans. So aim the dumb comments somewhere else. I'm a die hard Yankee fan but I'm not delusional and I know baseball. I joke around saying I'm a living baseball almanac but I'm just joking. I don't know everything but I'm not clueless either. You Yankee haters are out of control. Channel that energy into cheering for your F'n team instead of despising the Yankees and pointing out every mistake that Torre, Cashmen, Jeter or Arod ****ing make.

why bother G......
some of these guys arent baseball fans there just yankee haters

[Car50n]

warning: objective yankee fan

Jeter and Dye are definitely the front-runners.

complete stats:
------ G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DYE 134 499 94 160 27 3 41 115 52 111 7 .321 .385 .633 1.019

JETER 140 564 105 195 36 3 13 93 66 93 30 .346 .422 .489 .911


jeter's glove, DBs,SBs(only caught 3 times) and OBP should be added to the equation. and jeter is batting about .400 with runners in scoring position.

Dye has the better power numbers. less games played. solid defense, but not great. but is a bit of a stump on the basepads due to past knee problems.

couple weeks ago i would have gone with Dye, but his production has slowed down a bit. and Jeter is catching up to Maur, and will probably pass Maur for the batting Title...well, at least if Cano doesn't light up the board this week. which i think he will.

[Collection King 13]

Jeter gets my vote... but not by much over Dye...

[Car50n]

i watch just about every yankee game, and if they are not on, thanks to DirectTV extra innings, i can usually turn to the ChiSox, they are a good team, not as good as last year, but they are fun to watch and are probably the most similar to the yankees.

[The General]

warning: objective yankee fan

Jeter and Dye are definitely the front-runners.

complete stats:
------ G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DYE 134 499 94 160 27 3 41 115 52 111 7 .321 .385 .633 1.019

JETER 140 564 105 195 36 3 13 93 66 93 30 .346 .422 .489 .911


jeter's glove, DBs,SBs(only caught 3 times) and OBP should be added to the equation. and jeter is batting about .400 with runners in scoring position.

Dye has the better power numbers. less games played. solid defense, but not great. but is a bit of a stump on the basepads due to past knee problems.

couple weeks ago i would have gone with Dye, but his production has slowed down a bit. and Jeter is catching up to Maur, and will probably pass Maur for the batting Title...well, at least if Cano doesn't light up the board this week. which i think he will.

I agree 100% with everything you said dude. I'm also an objective Yankee fan. Personally I put Morneau even or probably over Dye.

[madjazz]

warning: objective yankee fan

Jeter and Dye are definitely the front-runners.

complete stats:
------ G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DYE 134 499 94 160 27 3 41 115 52 111 7 .321 .385 .633 1.019

JETER 140 564 105 195 36 3 13 93 66 93 30 .346 .422 .489 .911


jeter's glove, DBs,SBs(only caught 3 times) and OBP should be added to the equation. and jeter is batting about .400 with runners in scoring position.

Dye has the better power numbers. less games played. solid defense, but not great. but is a bit of a stump on the basepads due to past knee problems.

couple weeks ago i would have gone with Dye, but his production has slowed down a bit. and Jeter is catching up to Maur, and will probably pass Maur for the batting Title...well, at least if Cano doesn't light up the board this week. which i think he will.
The only spot Dye gets the edge is in HR abd RBI. In comparing RBI, you have to remember that Jeter's place in the order gives him a higher percentage of at bats with noone on base. Both are deserving candidates, but if the award was given right now, Jeter would get it.

[The General]

The only spot Dye gets the edge is in HR abd RBI. In comparing RBI, you have to remember that Jeter's place in the order gives him a higher percentage of at bats with noone on base. Both are deserving candidates, but if the award was given right now, Jeter would get it.

Jeter is batting .390+ with runners in scoring position. If he were batting 3,4 or 5 he would have the same maybe more RBI than Ortiz.

[madjazz]

Jeter is batting .390+ with runners in scoring position. If he were batting 3,4 or 5 he would have the same maybe more RBI than Ortiz.
Exactly my point. :buttrock:

[sincity]

frank thomas (by killing his old team and keeping oakland in the lead )
has entered thr MVP race.

[sincity]

justin morneau AL MVP
they got it right
3 twins in the top seven mvp canidates

TWINS: AL Cy Young Santana
AL MVP Morneau
AL/MLB Batting Champion Mauer
MLB Executive of the Year Ryan
Multiple/Current Gold Glove Winner Hunter
Rookie of the Year 3rd
Mananger of the Year AL 2nd

all that talent and they get swept in the first round WTF

[bat_collector]

LOL!:thumbs2:

Sorry yank fans.:eplus2: :laugh:

[Alex655321]

justin morneau AL MVP
they got it right
3 twins in the top seven mvp canidates

TWINS: AL Cy Young Santana
AL MVP Morneau
AL/MLB Batting Champion Mauer
MLB Executive of the Year Ryan
Rookie of the Year 3rd
Mananger of the Year AL 2nd

all that talent and they get swept in the first round WTF

One of the best organizations in the league. Always competing without being on of the top market cities.

[Underdog07]

Anything can happen in a short series. Minnesota used up its magic winning the division and making the play-offs.

[Underdog07]

While I think all of these awards are flawed and largely irrelevant, how could the voters overlook Jeter's intangibles? Morneau may have had 131 RBI, but Jetes had:

196 "way to run it outs"
63 "let's get em guys" most while the Yanks were trailing,
28 "we need a pitcher and not a belly itchers"
and, most importantly, 162 "awesome" hair days.

[boondocksaint]

the yankee haters strike again,,,

get em next year jete!

bahhhhhh

[madjazz]

Morneau wasn't even his team's MVP. This vote was a sham.

[The General]

Morneau wasn't even his team's MVP. This vote was a sham.

I know. It's all over the net, papers and TV. I read one article on MSN where the writer called it the worst MVP selection maybe ever. I wouldn't go that far but it was horrible. Morneau had a MVP caliber season but the fact that his team had 2 other MVP candidates you can't give him the MVP and just like MJ said he wasn't even the most valuable guy on his team No way was Manure more valuable than Maur or Santana.

[Tony Coca]

I know. It's all over the net, papers and TV. I read one article on MSN where the writer called it the worst MVP selection maybe ever. I wouldn't go that far but it was horrible. Morneau had a MVP caliber season but the fact that his team had 2 other MVP candidates you can't give him the MVP and just like MJ said he wasn't even the most valuable guy on his team No way was Manure more valuable than Maur or Santana.
Or Derek Jeter.Hell even Big Papi deserved to be an MVP over this clown.

[JadeGiant]

Absolute joke IMO ... I would have voted for Johan before this guy

[Primal]

LOL!:thumbs2:

Sorry yank fans.:eplus2: :laugh:

:laugh:

[The General]

:laugh:

Don’t encourage him bro. I think it’s sad what Bats has become.

[Car50n]

what a joke.....

Jeter and Maur deserved the award, either one would have been fine, and a tie would've even made sense.

Mourneau is the 3rd MVP on his own team, and that's only because Torii Hunter and Liriano were hurt.

within their division, Konerko, Dye, Thome, and even Grady Sizemore were better all around players then him. This is the worst voting since the IDIOTS, eerrr.....MORONS..errr....@ssho!e$.....voted Bartolo Colon the CY Young award winner in 2005. now THAT was moronic. oh, and lets not forget Vladi the MVP in 2005, when Sheffield had better all-around numbers throughout the year, as clutch as Vladi from day one. but wasn't as hot late in the year, when most people make up their minds.

[sincity]

wow i can't believe that yankee fans feel slighted
the writers got it right so quit complaining

[Underdog07]

Well, according to one sports talk caller the reason Jeter (and no Yankee other than ARod) has not won the MVP and Rivera has not won the Cy Young is that the voters are racists! A great point especially when you consider that since 2000 only 11 of the 14 MVP winners were minorities. Truly shocking and appalling.

[Car50n]

wow i can't believe that yankee fans feel slighted
the writers got it right so quit complaining

it's not just yankee fans that should be slighted, it's baseball fans, and even Twins fans. how can u say they got it right...Maur and Dye deserved the award over him by a long shot, not just Jeter. when you have a$$clowns with agendas and bias towards the larger markets, that's when you see the biggest problems stir. one Chicago writer with a vote had Jeter 6th and AROD 8th, that was proof positive that this guy didn't have a fukkin clue as to what he was doing. while ARODS final numbers were better then just about every 3rd basemen, he shouldn't have gotten any place votes, let alone 8th. he even had AJ pierzinski at 10th place, and didn't place Maur at all...that guy is the epitome of F*CKHEAD.

[Underdog07]

One person's vote would not have changed the outcome bc even if Jeter were 1 on his ballet instead of 6 Morneau still would have won.

And as for having an agenda, Pedro did not win the MVP in 2000 because NY Yankee beat writer George King left him off of his ballet (explaining that pitchers did not deserve the MVP). Of course King had previously voted for pitchers for the MVP. At the time, NYers had no problem with this ballet.

Right or wrong, over about the last 10 years, the writers who vote on these awards have started looking at the following criteria: stats, whether the team made the playoffs, and how the player performed in "key" September games. Morneau was second in the league in RBI and was the most productive #5 hitter in the league. His team made the play-offs. And he excelled in many key September games. Add to that the fact that the Twins players believe he was the team's MVP (he was the best offensive player in the majors from June-Oct) and it is not an atrocity that he won the award.

Jeter on the other hand did not have gaudy stats. People pushed his career and how he "held the team together". Well, that does not show up in a stat and would only be the case if you watched the games (something writers in other cities likely do not do). Additionally, the Yankees peaked too early winning the division in early August and cakewalking for 2 months. In the voters eyes, that means no key games.

All in all, I believe this is not a J Morneau thing and that we would be hearing the exact same complaints if anyone other than Jeter won the award.

Read some of Buster Olney's articles for a fair minded approach to this award.

[The General]

wow i can't believe that yankee fans feel slighted
the writers got it right so quit complaining

Car50n is right, it's not about Yankee fans. It's Baseball that comes out looking foolish here. They should have at least given it to the most valuable Twin. These assclown voters have been on a roll for the last couple of years now. It's not the end of the world of the biggest slight ever because it was a tight race but giving it to any Twin not just Manure doesn't make any sense.

[The General]

it's not just yankee fans that should be slighted, it's baseball fans, and even Twins fans. how can u say they got it right...Maur and Dye deserved the award over him by a long shot, not just Jeter. when you have a$$clowns with agendas and bias towards the larger markets, that's when you see the biggest problems stir. one Chicago writer with a vote had Jeter 6th and AROD 8th, that was proof positive that this guy didn't have a fukkin clue as to what he was doing. while ARODS final numbers were better then just about every 3rd basemen, he shouldn't have gotten any place votes, let alone 8th. he even had AJ pierzinski at 10th place, and didn't place Maur at all...that guy is the epitome of F*CKHEAD.

Wow he didn't have Maur on his list at all????:thumbsdow They need to change things up because this is rediculous. How the hell do you have Arod anywhere on the MVP ballot???