Bonds Love Him Hate Him He is still the Best.

[DEAD_MAN]

Bonds Love Him Hate Him He is still the Best Active Player.
Innocent till Proven Guilty

Only member of the 400/400 club over 400 HRs over 400 stolen bases.
Only member of the 500/500 club over 500 HRs over 500 stolen bases.
One of 4 members of the 40/40 club (Year:1996 42 HRs 40 stolen bases).
Single Season Home Run Record. (73)
All-Time Career Walks Leader. (2419)
2nd All-Time Career Home Runs (731)
6th All-Time Career Runs (2143)
8th All-Time Career RBI Leaders (1917)

• 1990: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1992: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1993: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2001: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2002: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2003: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2004: National League Most Valuable Player

• 1990: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1991: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1992: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1993: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1994: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1996: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1997: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1998: National League Gold Glove at OF

• 1994 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer
• 2002 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer

• 1994 ESPY: Male Athlete of the Year
• 2002 ESPY: Moment of the Year
• 2004: National League Silver Slugger

[OneOne78]

:spam: :puke2: Bonds

['Nuff]

No comment...other than..."No comment"...

[Gianco]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060797525.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[devlinboy]

im a bonds fan, if he fails a drug test by the mlb ill change my tune, but i enjoyed and still enjoy watching him play

[Collection King 13]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/collectionking13/BondsRookieCard.jpg

[devlinboy]

lol ive seen that b4 . the need a sosa one. actually they can just use his real one

['Nuff]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/collectionking13/BondsRookieCard.jpg

:laugh: ...as before...no comment...:laugh:

[Sniper]

:spam: :puke2: Bonds



Say what you will about Barry Bonds but there are worse people who took steroids and lied about it. Bonds before he took steroids during the mark and Sammy show was hitting the baseball scene were a hall of famer. He was one of the top elite players in baseball. His numbers were up there with the best of them. He just got overcome with jealousy and wanted what they had the admiration of the fans during there quest to surpass Maris for most home runs in a season. At this point Bonds has not smashed any of baseball most cherished records. Big Mark Magwire did. To me the biggest fraud is Mark and Sammy. These were players that were not even boarder line hall of famers, but because they juiced there numbers rose and during the quest for 61 they become baseball gods.
Had Mark and Sammy not juiced they would have never been able to get into the hall of fame. I bet they get into the Hall of fame as second ballot nominations. Bonds was already a lock to get into the Hall of fame without even taking his first hit of steroids.
If you ask me the biggest frauds here are Mark, Sammy and Rafael Palmerio as well. He may not even get into the hall even with his 500 homeruns. Don’t get me started on Pudge Rodriguez!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: I call him now the incredible srinking catcher, notice that he is no longer a gap homerun hitter, he is now a good defensive catcher that hits the gaps for doubles.


:peoples:

[Daywalker]

im a bonds fan, if he fails a drug test by the mlb ill change my tune, but i enjoyed and still enjoy watching him play

well thats not possible b/c the MLB runs a BS piss test for roids - HGH ( the most commonly used steriod ) cant be detected by urine testing - but since MLb doesnt blood test for doping none of the roid users will ever be caught - way to placate teh fans/media MLB by saying ur testing but not really doing SH!T to fix the situation

and what i just said just goes to show how blatantly stupid ppl like palmeiro are for getting caught using stuff that can be detected by a lousy piss test

FCUK MLB and thier BS drug test:thumbsdow :thumbsdow

[The General]

Say what you will about Barry Bonds but there are worse people who took steroids and lied about it. Bonds before he took steroids during the mark and Sammy show was hitting the baseball scene were a hall of famer. He was one of the top elite players in baseball. His numbers were up there with the best of them. He just got overcome with jealousy and wanted what they had the admiration of the fans during there quest to surpass Maris for most home runs in a season. At this point Bonds has not smashed any of baseball most cherished records. Big Mark Magwire did. To me the biggest fraud is Mark and Sammy. These were players that were not even boarder line hall of famers, but because they juiced there numbers rose and during the quest for 61 they become baseball gods.
Had Mark and Sammy not juiced they would have never been able to get into the hall of fame. I bet they get into the Hall of fame as second ballot nominations. Bonds was already a lock to get into the Hall of fame without even taking his first hit of steroids.
If you ask me the biggest frauds here are Mark, Sammy and Rafael Palmerio as well. He may not even get into the hall even with his 500 homeruns. Don’t get me started on Pudge Rodriguez!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: I call him now the incredible srinking catcher, notice that he is no longer a gap homerun hitter, he is now a good defensive catcher that hits the gaps for doubles.


:peoples:
Pudge looks like a flipp'n bobble head doll. Everything shrunk except his head.

[The General]

im a bonds fan, if he fails a drug test by the mlb ill change my tune, but i enjoyed and still enjoy watching him play

Same here dude. Even if he fails a drug test I still wouldn't want him hung though. All these players are taking stuff they shouldn't. The percentage of guys taking nothing has to be very small. All these guys are taking cutting edge pills and "B12" shots. If they were to study all this crap these guys are taking now I'm sure most of it would be banned by MLB. Not to say Bonds or anyone should get a prize if they get caught but these days everyone is taking something.

[Collection King 13]

I think Giambi is back on the Juice or the Cream and has a secret deal so he wont get tested!

[devlinboy]

i cant stand pudge, i always felt he and luis gonzalez were they people most affected by the drug testing rules. but it will be interesting to see the health issues all of these atheletes have in the future. has anyone read about the new developments in the lance armstrong debacle

[jimi311]

No he isn't

[Gruson]

Bonds is good but will never be a true legend like Willie Mays.

HE was a baseball player.

[Andy Bergholtz]

Bonds is good but will never be a true legend like Willie Mays.

HE was a baseball player.


Damn straight! I was going to post the same thing about Jackie Robinson.

[DEAD_MAN]

Had Mark and Sammy not juiced they would have never been able to get into the hall of fame

Mark Mcgwire owned records before the chase of 61
Mark ownes the single season HR Record for rookies (47)
He would have added more if it wasn't for his wife giving birth that year
and he took off a week.
At one time he owend the record for most 30 Hr consective years.and so on.....

[DEAD_MAN]

Damn straight! I was going to post the same thing about Jackie Robinson.

In time he will

[The Watcher]

i cant stand pudge, i always felt he and luis gonzalez were they people most affected by the drug testing rules. but it will be interesting to see the health issues all of these atheletes have in the future. has anyone read about the new developments in the lance armstrong debacle

I think there are going to be numerous versions of Lyle Alzado in the years to come. There'll be law suits and astericks all over the place.

[Sniper]

:peoples: Mark Mcgwire owned records before the chase of 61
Mark ownes the single season HR Record for rookies (47)
He would have added more if it wasn't for his wife giving birth that year
and he took off a week.
At one time he owend the record for most 30 Hr consective years.and so on.....

so what those things records dont get you into the hall of fame. There are a ton of players that own records and still are not in the hall of fame. MARk is a big fraud and he if he were still playing he would have been public enemy number 1. HE was a border line consideration for the hall of fame at best before he broke The Maris record.
Here are players that are yet not into the hall of fame, Donnie baseball, Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, I am sorry to tell you he was not better than anyone of these palyers I mentioned before he juiced. He was a good player but his numbers were not hall of fame material until he juiced. He was as good a Kent hurbek the minnesota first basemen for many years.

[Daywalker]

:peoples:

so what those things records dont get you into the hall of fame. There are a ton of players that own records and still are not in the hall of fame. MARk is a big fraud and he if he were still playing he would have been public enemy number 1. HE was a border line consideration for the hall of fame at best before he broke The Maris record.
Here are players that are yet not into the hall of fame, Donnie baseball, Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, I am sorry to tell you he was not better than anyone of these palyers I mentioned before he juiced. He was a good player but his numbers were not hall of fame material until he juiced. He was as good a Kent hurbek the minnesota first basemen for many years.
to steal a play from the generals response book - "innocent till poven guilty" - u keep saying he juiced - wheres the proof ? show me a drug test where he was found to have steriods in his system - anything u can say big mac did, so is bonds - there is no way u can tell me big mac juiced and bonds isnt - so all the responses that ppl give for why bonds isnt juicing can be said for macgwire as well

[bat_collector]

MLB is too invested in Bonds and McGuire to drag them through the mud. They promoted these guys and their records so much they can't turn on them now.

Both juiced up, but they are too big of stars to be touched. Its sickening.

[Sniper]

to steal a play from the generals response book - "innocent till poven guilty" - u keep saying he juiced - wheres the proof ? show me a drug test where he was found to have steriods in his system - anything u can say big mac did, so is bonds - there is no way u can tell me big mac juiced and bonds isnt - so all the responses that ppl give for why bonds isnt juicing can be said for macgwire as well
It can be proved beyond a resonable doubt, just like in civil court, you dont have to have the smoking gun,
All I have to do is look at comparsion shot of when he it was thought he began and you can see the dramatic change in his physical appearence, also his hat size which was issued change drastically, his head size changed for christ shakes, that does not happen if you are taking vitamins, his connection to balco and the trainner is enough for me.

I always thought Bonds was a great player who never recieved his due, too bad now it's in a negative way. I remember his pirated days and classic battles with the mets and his no show in the playoofs early in his career.
I have always been a fan of Barry Bonds and remain a fan today, I am not bashing, I am stating the obvious.

[Sniper]

to steal a play from the generals response book - "innocent till poven guilty" - u keep saying he juiced - wheres the proof ? show me a drug test where he was found to have steriods in his system -

.
are you forgetting his grand jury testimony that he said he thought he was given a cream and did not know it was steroids, hellooooo, this is why the government wants to bring him down, his trainer is the key, if he ever testifies that Bonds knew exactly what the cream consisted of he would have been lying, thus subjected to criminal prosecution.

I can't wait until those records are unsealed!:stick:

[Collection King 13]

They will never be unsealed....

[Sniper]

They will never be unsealed....

but they were leaked, and ended up in the Book, "game of shadows"

[Daywalker]

It can be proved beyond a resonable doubt, just like in civil court, you dont have to have the smoking gun,
All I have to do is look at comparsion shot of when he it was thought he began and you can see the dramatic change in his physical appearence, also his hat size which was issued change drastically, his head size changed for christ shakes, that does not happen if you are taking vitamins, his connection to balco and the trainner is enough for me.

I always thought Bonds was a great player who never recieved his due, too bad now it's in a negative way. I remember his pirated days and classic battles with the mets and his no show in the playoofs early in his career.
I have always been a fan of Barry Bonds and remain a fan today, I am not bashing, I am stating the obvious.
ok so with this are u saying that u think mac used and bonds didnt? if ur going to say macs size changed dramatically and everything so did bonds - if u are sayign that macgwire took roids but bonds didnt ur just completely off ur nut - im not sayign i think big mac is anymore innocent then bonds but the fact fo the matter is that any argument claiming big mac used steriods can be made for bonds too

go back and look at what i underlined in ur statment - bonds size is dramatically different then when he first started to play too

[Collection King 13]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/dainty1/RuthandBeer.jpg

[DEAD_MAN]

:peoples:

so what those things records dont get you into the hall of fame. There are a ton of players that own records and still are not in the hall of fame. MARk is a big fraud and he if he were still playing he would have been public enemy number 1. HE was a border line consideration for the hall of fame at best before he broke The Maris record.
Here are players that are yet not into the hall of fame, Donnie baseball, Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, I am sorry to tell you he was not better than anyone of these palyers I mentioned before he juiced. He was a good player but his numbers were not hall of fame material until he juiced. He was as good a Kent hurbek the minnesota first basemen for many years.

Here are players that are yet not into the hall of fame, Donnie baseball, Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy, Jim Rice,

I know it will take awhlie but Jim Rice ,Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson shoud be in it soon.

And who the hell is Donnie Baseball?
Don matt only had big numbers because everyone else were washed up or were bums.

He is only hyped by New york. there are over 200 players that will get the nod over him. Not ever ok player from the yankees should go to the Hall of fame. Mendoza,Wells,Strawberry will get there before him.

[Underdog07]

Dale Murphy was my favorite player growing up. But, sadly, there is no chance he will ever make the hall of fame.

Mattingly has even less chance of making it. He's a 1st Baseman with under 225 HRs for god's sake. There are players with 400+ HRs who are not in there. And the Hall always comes down to numbers and he simply doesn't have them, pure and simple. You need to be a dominant force at your position for at least 10 years. Mattingly does not qualify as that.

[Underdog07]

Here's a link to the stats of 1st baseman in the HoF. Comparing Mattingly's numbers to those listed clearly shows that he does not stack up to what is required to make the hall.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofst1b.shtml

Of the players listed, I would have to compare Mattingly to Murray since they overlapped in terms of years and era played. The numbers are amazingly unsimilar with Murray having 3000 hits and 500 HR to Mattingly's 2000 hits and 225 HR.

[DEAD_MAN]

Albert Pujols will make it before Don Mattingly



http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=35661

[Underdog07]

Albert Pujols will make it before Don Mattingly

Maybe. But I think we can definitively say that Ryan Howard will not make the Hall.

[DEAD_MAN]

Maybe. But I think we can definitively say that Ryan Howard will not make the Hall.

No body brought up Ryan Howard:stick:
stick with your Donnie Baseball.

[Daywalker]

Maybe. But I think we can definitively say that Ryan Howard will not make the Hall.

how can u say that ? its his first year :stick:

[Underdog07]

how can u say that ? its his first year :stick:


Easy. Look at his age. Given his late start, there is virtually no chance he can compile the numbers necessary to make the Hall of Fame.

[Sniper]

ok so with this are u saying that u think mac used and bonds didnt? if ur going to say macs size changed dramatically and everything so did bonds - if u are sayign that macgwire took roids but bonds didnt ur just completely off ur nut - im not sayign i think big mac is anymore innocent then bonds but the fact fo the matter is that any argument claiming big mac used steriods can be made for bonds too

go back and look at what i underlined in ur statment - bonds size is dramatically different then when he first started to play too

I never said he didnt , please re-read my post to see exactly what my point was. I can see with my own eyes he took steriods, no denying that

[Sniper]

Here are players that are yet not into the hall of fame, Donnie baseball, Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy, Jim Rice,

I know it will take awhlie but Jim Rice ,Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson shoud be in it soon.

And who the hell is Donnie Baseball?
Don matt only had big numbers because everyone else were washed up or were bums.

He is only hyped by New york. there are over 200 players that will get the nod over him. Not ever ok player from the yankees should go to the Hall of fame. Mendoza,Wells,Strawberry will get there before him.

are you kidding me, do me a favor and look who played during the same time period as he did,
KIrby puckett is a perfect example, Donnie baseball's numbers are almost even. Why is pucket he in the hall of fame, his team managed to win the world series , that is why he had the nod!!!!

GO and check the career numbers and tell me that don mattingly doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame if puckett is in...
and as a new york hyped player I suppose you say that jeter is a product of nY hype also.......

Wells and strawberry will never get into the hall....

Deadman when you get both players career stats, look at the numbers and from a baseball stand point(no personal stand point) tell me if the numbers match and should he be there along side kirby?

[Sniper]

Dale Murphy was my favorite player growing up. But, sadly, there is no chance he will ever make the hall of fame.

Mattingly has even less chance of making it. He's a 1st Baseman with under 225 HRs for god's sake. There are players with 400+ HRs who are not in there. And the Hall always comes down to numbers and he simply doesn't have them, pure and simple. You need to be a dominant force at your position for at least 10 years. Mattingly does not qualify as that.

check kirby pucket numbers, he career was shortened also,
remember both careers ended early because of health problems!

[Underdog07]

Puckett played a different position, so while his stats are similar its not a dead on comparison. First baseman are expected to hit HRs. That is ultimately what they are judged by. Here are the 10 most similar players to Mattingly.

Cecil Cooper (934)
Wally Joyner (907)
Hal McRae (900)
Kirby Puckett (895) *
Garret Anderson (880)
Will Clark (879)
Tony Oliva (872)
Keith Hernandez (862)
Jim Bottomley (860) *
John Olerud (858)

Here is a comparison of their stats:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=mattido01:Don+Mattingly&st=career

Would you argue that those other 1B above belong in the Hall? Will Clark arguably has better numbers than Mattingly and their playing time significantly overlapped. I doubt you would champion Clark's cause.

[Sniper]

Puckett played a different position, so while his stats are similar its not a dead on comparison. First baseman are expected to hit HRs. That is ultimately what they are judged by. Here are the 10 most similar players to Mattingly.

Cecil Cooper (934)
Wally Joyner (907)
Hal McRae (900)
Kirby Puckett (895) *
Garret Anderson (880)
Will Clark (879)
Tony Oliva (872)
Keith Hernandez (862)
Jim Bottomley (860) *
John Olerud (858)

Here is a comparison of their stats:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=mattido01:Don+Mattingly&st=career

Would you argue that those other 1B above belong in the Hall? Will Clark arguably has better numbers than Mattingly and their playing time significantly overlapped. I doubt you would champion Clark's cause.

will clark was not to the giants as mattingly was to the yankees.
Kirby puckett played center field are you telling me center fielders are not suppose to hit homeruns, they by far should hit homeruns.
Ken griffy Jr , center fielder who hit for power, both postitions require homeruns. I am not saying he deserves to be in the hall of fame, but what I am saying is that if puckett got in, similar numbers, power hitter position played, shortend career why him and not donnie, I think it because he played on the twin teams that went to the world series.

I like going back and forth with you , at least I can say you have a knowledge for the game.

[Daywalker]

I never said he didnt , please re-read my post to see exactly what my point was. I can see with my own eyes he took steriods, no denying that

i was asking cuz i wasnt sure what u said in ur post and i would care not to put myself through the task of trying to decipher sniper language:bawling: :bawling:

[DEAD_MAN]

Alfonso Soriano joined an exclusive club, becoming just the fourth player in league history to steal 40 bases and hit 40 homers in a season.
He can do it again he almost did it with the yankees.