Captain America/chain mail texture?

[randy bowen]

Do you guys want the same type of scale texture (used on Namors undies) to be use on Caps chain mail shirt?

Or do you prefer the more subtle effect from the previous Cap statues?

[Ink]

Do you guys want the same type of scale texture (used on Namors undies) to be use on Caps chain mail shirt?

Or do you prefer the more subtle effect from the previous Cap statues?

subtle, I don't like the medevil look cap has now

[matthewk]

Much prefer the subtle understated chain mail vs. the large clunky scallop shaped frisbees too many artists render Cap wearing these days. Just my humble opinion.

[Underdog07]

Subtle for me. The way its drawn now adays is not really accuracte as they depict scale armor while stating it is chainmail.

Here are pics:

CHAINMAIL
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/underdog07_2006/Chainmail_closeup-1.jpg


SCALEMAIL
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/underdog07_2006/TheoScale_8526_TornLon.jpg

[Daredevil]

wheres antman??

[Walrus]

Subtle, please. And where's Antman with a Yellowjacket variant?

[rafter]

Full monty baby! Oh yeah!:thumbs2:

[MONSTER]

Firelord Statue please. Thanks.

[Tetragrammaton]

I think subtle would be the best choice. Modern artwork goes a little too far in terms of depicting the armored natre of his shirt.

Scale mail is incorrect terminology. Leaf Mail or Scale armor is correct, but not for Cap.

http://i11.tinypic.com/3ygtult.jpg

[JDH]

Option D for me please!:)

[rafter]

Honestly I don't really care. I'm sure it would look good either way. I'm just hangin until Randy shows the love for a full size Bullseye.

[bruin218]

Has anyone seen the Dynamic Forces CAP modern (Cassaday) and golden age busts? Both have the scale armor and look good. The golden age has smaller scales than the modern and might work well to please both sides of the fence here.

[bullethole]

Like the old one ...and where is Antman AND Yellowjacket ?

[JavOner]

Do you guys want the same type of scale texture (used on Namors undies) to be use on Caps chain mail shirt?

Or do you prefer the more subtle effect from the previous Cap statues?



Give me texture, like this it would be different form the previous one.

[yorick]

Go full monty--we already have the subtle version, lets do something different.

[Alex655321]

Where is the Ant-Man FS?

[HoldyourfireAl]

Just like the 1st statue, PLEASE!

[deaconbluezzz]

Subtle, please. And where's Antman with a Yellowjacket variant?

The "suggested" chainmail look that Byrne used is perfect, but more importantly...

Where IS Bowen Design's Full Size Ant-Man??

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/AntMan.jpg

[Alex655321]

For cap go with subtle.

[darthmatrix]

Full Monty Please

[Barbarian]

I think that the subtle method in the comics works better, because it is a 2D representation of the character, and this sort of idealized scale mail can be chalked up to the style of the artists. But, for a 3D adaptation of the character, I think the subtle scales don't make as dynamic and impressive of a representation of this armor as a more detailed version would...in my humble opinion, of course.

[Mastermold]

Do you guys want the same type of scale texture (used on Namors undies) to be use on Caps chain mail shirt?

Or do you prefer the more subtle effect from the previous Cap statues?

Just make it look like chain mail. Some artists make it look like lizard scales. Whatever the sculpting technique is I couldn't begin to guess, but just don't make it look like lizard scales!

[Mastermold]

Well, I just looked at the SS PF Cap and their Red Skull and Cap diorama and both look great and both have sort of a scale look -- so what do I know?

[Mastermold]

OK, after looking over some Cap pics and prior sculpts I'd say Sideshow's Cap does the chain mail thing pretty nicely. Hard Hero's and the previous Bowen are a little too subtle for my taste. Big flapping scales are definitely the wrong way to go, but smaller tighter scales (whatever you call them) like SS did seems to strike a nice balance between realism and staying true to the comic look.

[sluysken]

it needs to have texture please

[batman1180]

Full scales for me.

[imthkman]

Subtle for me as well. I don't like the new scalemail look.

[Gatekeeper2Hell]

I think subtle would be the best choice. Modern artwork goes a little too far in terms of depicting the armored natre of his shirt.

Scale mail is incorrect terminology. Leaf Mail or Scale armor is correct, but not for Cap.

Scale mail is the correct term, and would be lighter to wear than chain mail.

Chainmail: This armor is made of interlocking metal rings. It includes a layer of quilted fabric underneath it to prevent chafing and to cushion the impact of blows. Several layers of mail are hung over vital areas. Most of the armor's weithg hangs from the shoulders, making chainmail uncomfortable to wear for long periods of time.

Scale Mail: This is a coat and leggings (and perhaps a separate skirt) of leather covered with overlapping pieces of metal, much like the scales of a fish.

Until the Dan Jurgens run on Captain America, I always thought it was just cloth like Spidey wears. Rather unimpressive.

[High Lord Apocalypse]

randy,YES on the scales like namors trunks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we already have one with the subtle look. the scales will add so much more to the overall look of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please please do the scales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kirk Durfey]

Subtle for me, please...

[High Lord Apocalypse]

this is 3d not 2d like comic books!!! look at the sneaks for sideshows upcoming cap with the chain mail/scales. it makes the statue!!!!

[jimbo5905]

I, for one, don't really like the way he's been potrayed in the comics lately with the scales....he's a solider, not a knight....let's keep it subtle and classic looking...thanks for asking our opinion...

[Gatekeeper2Hell]

Info on armor history:
http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2005/10/everything-old-is-new-again.html

Scale mail was used in WWI, WWII, and Korea. So that is likely what Cap would have worn back in the day. And leaf mail is the same as scale mail, but uses larger plates.


Fast forward again to the early-mid 20th century, and folks are looking once again to protect those in combat from the horrors of new weapons technology. The machine gun, artillery, grenades, and anti-aircraft had escalated mass casualties to truly horrific levels, and understandably the concept of armoring combatants came back to the fore.

Unfortunately, technology wasn't up to the task of providing full armor protection against high velocity bullets; but they COULD protect against shell fragments, shrapnel, spalling etc...

The fun part though, they chose to do it with... wait for it...

Ayup, scale mail.

This version of scale mail consisted of hardened aluminum (or in some of the earlier implementations steel) plates sewn into canvas pockets over a kapok or other densely padded jacket. It didn't do much to protect against bullets, but it was half decent against ricochets, shell fragments, and the like, as it was designed to do.

From the first implementations in the WW1 years, through WW2 and Korea, the technology was refined to the point where it could sometimes resist medium caliber pistol rounds. In the process the focus of armor developement changed from scale mail, into many overlapping layers of high strength synthetic fabrics; which by the time of Viet Nam, proved to be more effective at stopping medium velocity threats, and were easier for combatants to wear.

[HoldyourfireAl]

I, for one, don't really like the way he's been potrayed in the comics lately with the scales....he's a solider, not a knight....let's keep it subtle and classic looking...thanks for asking our opinion...

I love John Cassady's artwork, but HATE his influence on the Cap uniform...the big plates, the mask, the combat belt....

It's a damn shame that a great artist like Steve Epting must be told to draw the uniform that way instead of the classic, enduring way!.....

In other words-----let's see the look that was current from 1964-200? when Cassaday & the Ultimates came along! Let SS do the "new" Cap. Let's have Bowen keep it CLASSIC!

Al

[Underdog07]

Big flipping scales are definitely the wrong way to go,

Damn flippers:stick:

[kaza5555]

Subtle please, but my vote goes to the Antman question.

[Daredevil]

choices 2 and 4

[deaconbluezzz]

I love John Cassady's artwork, but HATE his influence on the Cap uniform...the big plates, the mask, the combat belt....

It's a damn shame that a great artist like Steve Epting must be told to draw the uniform that way instead of the classic, enduring way!.....

In other words-----let's see the look that was current from 1964-200? when Cassaday & the Ultimates came along! Let SS do the "new" Cap. Let's have Bowen keep it CLASSIC!

Al

I agree with BGA here ;)

Seriously...why is there a desire to put such emphasis on the mail these days? It makes him look like a poor man's Aquaman half the time. Anyhow, what good would scale-mail do over your shoulders and upper chest anyhow? it still leaves your abdomen and head fully exposed to any sort of weapon or shrapnel.

[deaconbluezzz]

Oh, and by the way...

"Where the f*** IS the full size Ant-Man statue anyhow?!?"

[High Lord Apocalypse]

thanks deacon!!!!i know you know why i'm thanking you!!

[JadeGiant]

Give me texture, like this it would be different form the previous one.

yup, let's see something different ... maybe something between previous and full monty:thumbs2:

[Achiever]

tup, let's see something different ... maybe something between previous and full monty:thumbs2:

I agree. Full monty may look weird. Give us mid-Monty.

[JadeGiant]

I agree. Full monty may look weird. Give us mid-Monty.

LOL:thumbs2: :laugh:

[Gianco]

Just for reference:

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/7161_press06-001.jpg

Looks nice, IMO. :buttrock:

[JadeGiant]

Just for reference:

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/7161_press06-001.jpg

Looks nice, IMO. :buttrock:

completely agree - looks awesome! I don't see why not go this route:thumbs2:

[ironrope]

Can't remember where, but I read that the mail was intended to be under the fabric of the shirt and is why it seemed more subtle in the classic version. I think the chest should have a bumpy texture but not be as pronounced as the modern depiction. I voted subtle by the way.

[HoldyourfireAl]

Can't remember where, but I read that the mail was intended to be under the fabric of the shirt and is why it seemed more subtle in the classic version. I think the chest should have a bumpy texture but not be as pronounced as the modern depiction. I voted subtle by the way.

That IS true! I had forgotten! The chain mail is UNDER the shirt. We would only see impressions of it coming through!

[Jesse321]

Subtle works for me.


Now where's Ant-Man ... and MORE IMPORTANTLY will there be a Wasp FS to go along with him?!?!?!?

:D

[armitage]

Subtle is fine.

[deaconbluezzz]

Now where's Ant-Man ... and MORE IMPORTANTLY will there be a Wasp FS to go along with him?!?!?!?

:D

"Yeah...what he said! Tell Randy that Fred G. Sanford said to get crackin'...the "G" stands for 'Gee, I wish I knew where the Hell Ant-Man is!'"

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/240px-Redd_Foxx1.jpg

[lord odin]

"Yeah...what he said! Tell Randy that Fred G. Sandford said to get crackin'...the "G" stands for 'Gee, I wish I knew where the Hell Ant-Man is!'"

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/240px-Redd_Foxx1.jpg

You big dummy.:)

[boondocksaint]

cant wait for this cap randy either way ill be getting it!

[genesimmons1]

definitly subtle.love the way john cassidy draws his xmen but I hate him for introducing that chainmail shirt in that cap mini series.I dont think bowen is even thinking to do anything like that.he probably would have asked our opinion when he posted for suggestions a while back.

[The Watcher]

"Chain Mail" usually ends up looking like feathers.

[genesimmons1]

exactly

[MASTERSHOKHAN]

Subtle, like sideshows versus dio ( sorry for referencing the comp ). I think the human body is the most beautiful work of art and bigger chain/scale-mail could take away from or overpower the sculpt.
( my artist opinion )


CED

[genesimmons1]

I would say that the sideshow one is even to much. just like bowens last one would be fine.by the way who is that srange person behind sideshows captain americas mask? certainly not the steve rogers we all know.

[genesimmons1]

I just took a peek at my cap and noticed bowen has very few scales on it.they are done very nicely though.the new one could have them all over the top of the shirt like that .just seeing those scales on the old statue make me positive that bowen will nail it.

[randy bowen]

In my original post I mentioned making the effect similar to the one that I had done on Namors speedo.

I don't know how Sideshow accomplished their Cap mail texture,( and I doubt they would volunteer the information), so you're pretty much stuck with my technique, should I go for the all over texture effect.

[ant-man]

Randy...i thought the Original Cap FS was haandled very nicely with the chain...personally...im not a big fan of the way they are treating it today in comics...

[ant-man]

...wait change my vote to where is my FS Ant-man....:)

[genesimmons1]

yes randy, like you did it it was the best way so far.just probably all over the chest,if it looks right.I would like to see a pose of him standing with the sheild raised over his head .his arm slightly bent there are a few iconic pictures like that floating around if somebody can dig them up.iam not that great with posting pics yet.

[migsmack]

When Captain America throws his mighty shield!

[JavOner]

In my original post I mentioned making the effect similar to the one that I had done on Namors speedo.

I don't know how Sideshow accomplished their Cap mail texture,( and I doubt they would volunteer the information), so you're pretty much stuck with my technique, should I go for the all over texture effect.


Theres only texture on the top blue shirt of cap's uniform..

[deaconbluezzz]

First off, I'm gonna admit to a personal bias due to my age, and the influences I grew up with. That being said, there are two Marvel heroes that I have always, and will always associate with the King, Jack Kirby...those two are the Thing, and Captain America. This how Jack always drew him, so this is how I'll always see him in my head...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/34cover.jpg

A few years down the road, when Cassady has passed from the "hot artist" slot (the way Adams, Steranko, BWS, Byrne, McFarlane and countless others have), Kirby's vision of the good Captain will still be with us...and isn't that the spirit of these characters that Randy has always aimed to capture?

[Rome]

subtle for me :buttrock:

[Rome]

First off, I'm gonna admit to a personal bias due to my age, and the influences I grew up with. That being said, there are two Marvel heroes that I have always, and will always associate with the King, Jack Kirby...those two are the Thing, and Captain America. This how Jack always drew him, so this is how I'll always see him in my head...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/34cover.jpg

A few years down the road, when Cassady has passed from the "hot artist" slot (the way Adams, Steranko, BWS, Byrne, McFarlane and countless others have), Kirby's vision of the good Captain will still be with us...and isn't that the spirit of these characters that Randy has always aimed to capture?


well said

[deaconbluezzz]

well said

Thanks Rome...

but I still want to know WTF is up with the FS Ant-Man! :banghead:

[OneOne78]

Option B & D

[genesimmons1]

that kirby picture is good,to hard to do as a statue, I would think though .I was thinking more like I guess a seventies version, standing staight up ,fist in the air ,almost screaming,with the sheild in that raised hand.

[genesimmons1]

I think the image i was talking about was one of those upper left hand corner box photos.

[deaconbluezzz]

that kirby picture is good,to hard to do as a statue, I would think though .I was thinking more like I guess a seventies version, standing staight up ,fist in the air ,almost screaming,with the sheild in that raised hand.

I wasn't implying that the Kirby pic should be used as the template for the new statue's pose...I simply was pointing out that Kirby himself always intended for the mail to be subtle, as though it were covered by another layer of fabric.

As much as I loved the guy's artwork (at least during the 50's and 60's), sculpts made to reflect it usually fall flat on their face. The style just doesn't lend itself to 3D representations very well.

[1logan]

Randy however you decide to go just please make it your 100 percent best effort that's all I ask.

[MONSTER]

Randy however you decide to go just please make it your 100 percent best effort that's all I ask.

That's asking alot. Give it at least 80% Randy.;)

[deaconbluezzz]

That's asking alot. Give it at least 80% Randy.;)

Hey now, don't let him off that easy...I expect a bit more than a B- effort from the guy :)

...and I'm rather pleased to see 15% of the respondents so far just want to know where Ant-Man is at!

[Barbarian]

That's asking alot. Give it at least 80% Randy.;)

:laugh: Good one, Monster. I was kinda wondering about that too. :)

[BOWEN NUT]

Lately it seems that artists have gone nuts detailing every ring of chain mail on Cap. Personally, I HATE IT!!

I much prefer the subtle style.

I'm also not a big fan of the new pouch utility belt they draw him with nowadays.

[deaconbluezzz]

I'm also not a big fan of the new pouch utility belt they draw him with nowadays.

Exactly.

You're Captain America...you carry a shield. Period. He doesn't need bullets, band-aids, handcuffs, pepper-spray, or a Cap-A-Rang, so why the Hell are so many artists drawing those silly-a$$ pouches??!!

[randy bowen]

That's asking alot. Give it at least 80% Randy.;)

Dang- Even 80% is a stretch. I've been stuck at 15% for a decade...

OK- I'll up the ante. Somehow, someway.

[randy bowen]

Exactly.

You're Captain America...you carry a shield. Period. He doesn't need bullets, band-aids, handcuffs, pepper-spray, or a Cap-A-Rang, so why the Hell are so many artists drawing those silly-a$$ pouches??!!

I wouldn't mind the pouches so much if the would just show what he's carrying in those things. Car key's? breath mints?

[Ink]

I would mind the pouches so much if the would just show what he's carrying in those things. Car key's? breath mints?

fresh breath is a must!!!

[pmpknface]

I'm really not sure on this one, and haven't voted yet. I like the armor's look (option 1) but I don't know if that will be too much considering the 1st Cap FS was so cool. However I'd like it to be different from the 1st one somehow.

Randy, just make it cool. I trust ya! :D

[deaconbluezzz]

I'm really not sure on this one, and haven't voted yet. I like the armor's look (option 1) but I don't know if that will be too much considering the 1st Cap FS was so cool. However I'd like it to be different from the 1st one somehow.

Randy, just make it cool. I trust ya! :D

When in doubt...vote Ant-Man!! :buttrock:

[Fannymac]

I HATE the chainmail look........when, where and why did this EVER come about?!?!?

[BOWEN NUT]

I HATE the chainmail look........when, where and why did this EVER come about?!?!?


It seemed to come about when artists decided to start drawing super hero costumes in a realistic style. You all of a sudden started to see the seams on the costumes and in Cap's case every link of chain mail.

I first noticed it on Cap during his title's latest re-launch. The storyline where he fought the terrorists in their own country.

[deaconbluezzz]

I HATE the chainmail look........when, where and why did this EVER come about?!?!?

Kevin Mcguire did the art for a 4 issue Cap mini-series in late '91...that was the first time I saw the "scale-mail" look.

[The General]

I can't believe lizard shirt Cap has 79 votes. Make it subtle RB.

[The General]

Kevin Mcguire did the art for a 4 issue Cap mini-series in late '91...that was the first time I saw the "scale-mail" look.

Dude you are the king of avatars.:thumbs2:

[deaconbluezzz]

Dude you are the king of avatars.:thumbs2:

Given some of the ones I see here, that's high praise indeed! I can't pat myself on the back too hard though...I just grab the stuff from the 'net.


...did you know how many pics of women with large breasts are out there? I never would have guessed! :rolleyes2

[HoldyourfireAl]

http://images.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Aprl07/cvrs/ANOHBOTMU2.jpg

This is how the chain mail should look!

[The General]

http://images.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Aprl07/cvrs/ANOHBOTMU2.jpg

This is how the chain mail should look!

That's what I'm saying. I hate when some of these AC's draw it super scaley.

[the Hammer]

OK, after looking over some Cap pics and prior sculpts I'd say Sideshow's Cap does the chain mail thing pretty nicely. Hard Hero's and the previous Bowen are a little too subtle for my taste. Big flapping scales are definitely the wrong way to go, but smaller tighter scales (whatever you call them) like SS did seems to strike a nice balance between realism and staying true to the comic look.

These are all excellent points, and I totally agree to go full monty on this one. It will differentiate itself more easily from the original as well.

[Caniac78]

full monty, make it different, more represenitive of the cap of the last ten years. We already have your first statue which is still perfect for the iconic pose. Please do a great action pose with the shield on his arm

[malkii]

i think it should be subtle... never have really liked the way they have be drawing him lately...

[malkii]

Oh and bring on the Full Size Ant Man also... no fair adding that on this poll, and not allowing us to choose more than one selection....

[deaconbluezzz]

Oh and bring on the Full Size Ant Man also... no fair adding that on this poll, and not allowing us to choose more than one selection....

Did Randy make the poll? If he did, then he may be telling us something...I don't remember him rubbing our noses in something he never intended to give the green light to before.

...oh, and I agree bring on Ant-Man!!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-5/1177563/AntMan.jpg

[pmpknface]

Here ya go Dana:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Secretwars1.png

http://i22.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/ce/fc/3f_1_b.JPG

http://i13.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/84/d2/dc7c_1_b.JPG

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/ba/95/85_1_b.JPG

[deaconbluezzz]

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/ba/95/85_1_b.JPG

There's a perfect compare/contrast of the two looks in this cover. Thor's armor is the exposed scale-mail, while Cap's is the classic look of his mail-under-the-shirt. Just as God...errr...I mean Jack Kirby, intended :thumbs2:

[deaconbluezzz]

By gum, you've put into words what I've been thinking of for a couple of days now. I kept thinking of BAT's scale armor vs Cap's uniform. Too bad I'm too slow on the uptake. But that's a perfect example indeed. Good show, deacon!

Ummm...I'm always happy to help? :o

[Grumpy]

I prefer the subtle over the full monty so I guess I'm in the mid-monty camp. Doesn't really matter tho cause I'm buying whatever version is produced.

[pmpknface]

Thanks pmpknface!

Hmm...apart from the Secret Wars cover, which makes the costume very smooth, the other pics make it look like the way Cap's costuem is "supposed" to look back then: the armor is underneath the tight-fitting costume. Is that how it looks to you guys? Outer armor would be a lot more defined. It really looks like it's underneath to me. This would be the subtle choice, correct?
No problem! Glad to help.

Yeah, I think we've got a winner here.

RANDY - You gettin' this? ;)

[HoldyourfireAl]

I want a FS Ant Man!

[MASTERSHOKHAN]

full monty and yes.

[wktf]

OK, here's a call to arms (a request, actually).

Cap has never been more noble, more inspiring, than in the tremendous "Siege of Avengers Mansion" storyline. Cap from the 80s really stands out for me. Stern and Byrne's "War and Remembrance", Stern's Avengers run (with the aforementioned "Siege" storyline), and yes, Secret Wars, in which Cap was chosen as leader above all other Marvel heroes, make this era a truly great Cap era. Can someone post some pics of Cap from the "Siege of Avengers Mansion" storyline (not the cover to the tpb, though - that was painted in the 90s). Or of Cap from Secret Wars or during Stern/Byrne's run? Thanks!


Dana, "Avengers Under Siege" and "War and Remembrance" are two of my favorite Captain America stories as well. For those of you who've not read these incredible tales, I've reviewed them in the past at these links:

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=7582&highlight=avengers+siege

http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=33009&highlight=remembrance