Rewriting History

[VaultMan]

It seems to me that Joe Q is not just trying to build a company, he's essentially trying to rewrite the Marvel history books in his own image. His lack of respect for continuity (too many examples to list here) only points to his dire need to reshape this universe, I assume for a whole new generation of readers. I have no real problem with trying to establish new audiences, but I'm pretty certain it could be done without sacrificing the marvelous (pun intended) history carved out by Stan, Jack, and the gang. Or could it be his own ego at work?

If we were to examine the demographics of the current comic reader, I'm pretty certain that the 30+ reader still dominates the consumer lanscape for Marvel book sales.

So is it OK to sacrifice continuity for the sake of new ideas? Is my demographic being phased out in hope of latching on to new readers of a new generation? Surely it can be argued that few people at Marvel seem to care about the "older gen" why else would they bring back Mar-Vell?!?!

[bjread]

I think the big deal is that there are a lot of GREAT characters that younger people never got to experience. And the old style of art & writing is not the kind that really grabs their interest. So they seem to be trying to bring some of these old characters back for new readers to enjoy.

Also, Joe Q. is the E-i-C, not the shaper of all that is Marvel. Most of the changes that are going on are not HIS ideas. He may approve/allow them, but they don't come from his head. So to blame him is very unfair.

I am a 27 year old so I don't really know what demo I fall in ( i just don't know the breakdowns). I read comics heavy in the early-mid '90s. I enjoyed them. I enjoy comics now more than then. There has been nothing that has changed that has bothered me. I like change. I like it to be different.

[RichBamf]

Also, Joe Q. is the E-i-C, not the shaper of all that is Marvel. Most of the changes that are going on are not HIS ideas. He may approve/allow them, but they don't come from his head. So to blame him is very unfair.


If he greenlights them as the CEO of Marvel, the changes are his fault.

If the CEO of a business oks ideas provided to him by his employees that run down the integrity of his company, who else can be blamed?

I personally dislike what JOe Q has done to the big comics. Spidey and X-men have gone from being great to being a little less than average, and if it wasn't for Whedon and Brubaker, X-men would be in serious trouble.

However Joe Q has done wonders (at least financially) with books that were flagging, like Daredevil, Cap and Avengers.

The bottom line is that while Marvel's money is going up, Joe Q will be deemed a success. I would say that over half the people who post in this comic section disliked Civil War, but out of all these people, who still picked up every issue?

We can't complain about Quesada and then support him by bying the product. If you dislike what Joe Q is doing in certain titles, drop them, it's the only way to get that message accross. All the posting about it won't do any good.

[VaultMan]

If he greenlights them as the CEO of Marvel, the changes are his fault.

If the CEO of a business oks ideas provided to him by his employees that run down the integrity of his company, who else can be blamed?



I agree. Good call.


But Rich, the posting is fun! I love talking about this type of stuff, and obviously making threads is a means to that end. :thumbs2:

[JLM]

I'm no writer, but I would have thought that slavishly following years of continuity could/would make storytelling constrictive. On the other hand, having a continuity gives characters a sense of history.

I guess I'm on the fence about continuity, but IMO Marvel comics are better than they were 10 years ago.

[bat_collector]

We can't complain about Quesada and then support him by bying the product. If you dislike what Joe Q is doing in certain titles, drop them, it's the only way to get that message accross. All the posting about it won't do any good.

I stopped reading most of marvel comics due to Civil War and the hot on the heels mega event WWH.

I'm all mega-evented out.

:thumbsdow

[Vince-Vell]

We can't complain about Quesada and then support him by bying the product. If you dislike what Joe Q is doing in certain titles, drop them, it's the only way to get that message accross. All the posting about it won't do any good.

Oh i dropped all-most all marvel titles and only sticking with Annihilation. I made a promise to myself after HoM not to buy anymore hyped up Joe Q nonsense. Glad i did by not buy a single book from CW. Still dont plan on buying WWH either. Two things will make me get back into marvel, JoeQ steps down, or they bring back Genis-Vell.



Side note: Funny how guys who i see every Wednesday that spend over $100 on books are the ones who are dropping marvel tittles. Starting to see a pattern develop with old school readers (in my area), the same guys who stuck thru some of that 90s crap. They are the ones dropping more and more marvel books.



Marvel just doesnt seem fun anymore to me.

[Crom]

I really enjoy today's Marvel comics. They will never compare to what I read as a kid, but how can they?

I don't think Marvel ignores continuity anymore than they did in the past, I just think there is a higher degree of scrutiny today with the internet communities. Add in a fan base that has gotten much older, but has also become much more vocal and it has to be truly difficult to write something today without upsetting someone's sensibilities.

In the end, sales show that Quesada's efforts are paying off and are well-received by the majority of the fans. And if they are not, then how can comic readers even show their faces? If they truly hate what is happening in the Marvel Universe we should see that in sales figures. Otherwise it is just hot-air.

[VaultMan]

I really enjoy today's Marvel comics. They will never compare to what I read as a kid, but how can they?

I don't think Marvel ignores continuity anymore than they did in the past, I just think there is a higher degree of scrutiny today with the internet communities. Add in a fan base that has gotten much older, but has also become much more vocal and it has to be truly difficult to write something today without upsetting someone's sensibilities.

In the end, sales show that Quesada's efforts are paying off and are well-received by the majority of the fans. And if they are not, then how can comic readers even show their faces? If they truly hate what is happening in the Marvel Universe we should see that in sales figures. Otherwise it is just hot-air.

Yes, this is true. But I do hear more people talking of dropping their Marvel titles because of bad storytelling. Still, you are correct: sales dont seem to be suffering for Marvel, even after all the mega-events.

[Cage]

Yes, this is true. But I do hear more people talking of dropping their Marvel titles because of bad storytelling. Still, you are correct: sales dont seem to be suffering for Marvel, even after all the mega-events.

Its funny I was going to start a thread about my last trip to the LCS this past Saturday. I went just to buys bags and boards, but for the first time that I can remember I bought all DC titles. :( I am a "Marvel Guy" but when i left, I had bags, boards and Justice, the last 2 Suparman/Batman's, JLA, and Brave and the Bold. No Marvel, and I hadn't been in about three weeks.

[rilynil]

I've only been back to reading comics heavily for the past four years, but I am enjoying them as much as I ever did, and that's including all the great stuff that got me hooked in the mid-70s to early-80s (Ross Andru's Amazing Spider-Man, Perez' Avengers, Claremont-C0ckrum-Byrne's X-Men, Byrne's Fantastic Four).

I am finding plenty of new stuff that I LOVE (New X-Men, Astonishing X-Men, X-23, Runaways, Spider-Girl, Irredeemable Ant-Man, Young Avengers).

Sure, there are some things I don't like (Vision's death being at the top of the list), but I think Joe Q has made Marvel exciting again. I just don't understand people who seem to hate Joe Q. Marvel matters again to me, and I thank Joe.

[Crom]

I'll be the first to agree that House of M, and to a lesser degree, Civil War, were nowhere near as good as the hype surrounding them, but I think the end results from both stories are good. Fewer mutants and super-hero registration make the Marvel Universe more interesting to me at least.

After House of M, it seemed like the entire internet had sworn off the next big event from Marvel. Instead the next big event from Marvel sold more than any comic in the past 5 years.

Also, considering the number of variant covers that are bought by fans these days I really don't think a publisher can take any threats of boycotting seriously. As far as I can see the comic fan community rarely ever learns from it's mistakes. I'm impressed by those who have actually stopped buying because I really think they are the few that really stand by their opinion.

[VaultMan]

Its funny I was going to start a thread about my last trip to the LCS this past Saturday. I went just to buys bags and boards, but for the first time that I can remember I bought all DC titles. :( I am a "Marvel Guy" but when i left, I had bags, boards and Justice, the last 2 Suparman/Batman's, JLA, and Brave and the Bold. No Marvel, and I hadn't been in about three weeks.


Isnt that odd? I've gone through the same thing. A couple of weeks ago I also went to the LCS, got Justice #10, Detective (with Harley on the cover) and ASM #539 (finally). Its not the first time my DC titles outnumbered the Marvel.

I think its a mix of DC being really good these days, Marvel, not AS good as years past, IMHO.

I will say that my decrease in buying Marvel titles is across the board: I just generally buy fewer comics these days. Which, obviously, I cannot completely blame Marvel for. And for me , it only seems I buy more DC because I've bought so little of it (except for JLA and Batman) in the 90's early 00's.

[bjread]

If he greenlights them as the CEO of Marvel, the changes are his fault.

If the CEO of a business oks ideas provided to him by his employees that run down the integrity of his company, who else can be blamed?

I personally dislike what JOe Q has done to the big comics. Spidey and X-men have gone from being great to being a little less than average, and if it wasn't for Whedon and Brubaker, X-men would be in serious trouble.



Well, what I was saying is the bad ideas (in some peoples opinion) are not all his ideas. He does allow them to happen, yes. I haven't liked everything he has allowed to happen. However, I really didn't like what Morrison did to the X-universe. I actually like the end result of HoM. Provides a lot of potential stories.

I agree with you on the Whedon and Brubaker point about X-men. Though, Kyle & Yost are doing a good job on New X-men too.

[RichBamf]

I agree. Good call.


But Rich, the posting is fun! I love talking about this type of stuff, and obviously making threads is a means to that end. :thumbs2:

Oh, that post wasn't directed at you mate! :thumbs2:

I just wish everyone who complained would actually DO something about it, then Marvel wouldn't have any choice but to change.

[lord odin]

I stopped reading most of marvel comics due to Civil War and the hot on the heels mega event WWH.

I'm all mega-evented out.

:thumbsdow
Same here marvel is the house of bad ideas.:thumbsdow

[RichBamf]

I've only been back to reading comics heavily for the past four years, but I am enjoying them as much as I ever did, and that's including all the great stuff that got me hooked in the mid-70s to early-80s (Ross Andru's Amazing Spider-Man, Perez' Avengers, Claremont-C0ckrum-Byrne's X-Men, Byrne's Fantastic Four).

I am finding plenty of new stuff that I LOVE (New X-Men, Astonishing X-Men, X-23, Runaways, Spider-Girl, Irredeemable Ant-Man, Young Avengers).

Sure, there are some things I don't like (Vision's death being at the top of the list), but I think Joe Q has made Marvel exciting again. I just don't understand people who seem to hate Joe Q. Marvel matters again to me, and I thank Joe.

Neil, I too think some of the new stuff Marvel is producing (especially Young Avengers) is very, very good. the only problem I'm finding with Marvel is the decline in established titles quality.

I, like many of the comic-readers on the boards have switched the majority of my buying to DC, simply because I think for the last five or so years they have had more respect for their characters than Marvel have.

I must admit though, within the next two weeks I'll be transfering to trades and filling the gaps in my collection, I'm seriously running out of room, and modern comics just aren't worth what we're spending on them.:(

[moon_knight1971]

I don't think it's much of a decline as much as a glut of titles out there. When you have writers & artists with multiple titles quality has to drop somewhere. That said, I'm buying about 15 - 20 titles a month with 3 titles being DC, Justice, JLA and the Teen Titans East arc.