PARALLAX VS. DARK PHOENIX

[Doctor Pym]

All these polls about Green Lantern vs. Marvel heroes brought me back to my favorite fanboy question. So who wins this one?

I would have to give the edge to Parallax, but only if he's able to resist fighting Jean outright. If he stops time while she's still building her Phoenix energy construct, she'll never have a chance to use it.

Then again, if she mind-blasts Hal-as-Parallax and gets to the M'Krann crystal before he even knows he's in a fight, even he might have trouble fighting the End of All That Is.

Only the will of fanboys assembled can settle this!

[lord odin]

Batman then Dark Phoenix.

[Tetragrammaton]

Don't know Parallax well enough to really say.

For all Dark Phoenix's power, she has one major weakness, the limitations of the mortal body (or duplicate body as the case may be) of Jean Grey.

I still say Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Galactus or a Celestial, so I would tend to favor her over Parallax.

Was there supposed to be a poll attached to this thread?

[lord odin]

Don't know Parallax well enough to really say.

For all Dark Phoenix's power, she has one major weakness, the limitations of the mortal body (or duplicate body as the case may be) of Jean Grey.

I still say Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Galactus or a Celestial, so I would tend to favor her over Parallax.

Was there supposed to be a poll attached to this thread?

I wouldn`t go that far Galactus and the Celestials are the top of the food chain.

[Wolverine1]

Man, Id like to see Dark Phoenix versus Galactus!

[Tetragrammaton]

Any other requests?

http://i10.tinypic.com/6gd3x48.jpg

[Wolverine1]

Whered that happen, what happened?

[Justin]

my money would be on Dark Phoenix

[sketch515]

dark phoenix, no contest whatsoever.

[Immovable Blob]

Big G wins.

[Doctor Pym]

Was there supposed to be a poll attached to this thread?
Yep — it didn't go through, for some reason, and then I was called away from my desk to do some actual work... didn't spot the missing poll until now.

[Doctor Pym]

Don't know Parallax well enough to really say. For all Dark Phoenix's power, she has one major weakness, the limitations of the mortal body (or duplicate body as the case may be) of Jean Grey. I still say Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Galactus or a Celestial, so I would tend to favor her over Parallax.
I haven't read every Parallax story, but in the ones I've seen, his power seems to vary from all-but-limitless (stopping time, and then sending out waves of entropy from the far future that wipe out every aspect of spacetime as they move backward in time ("Zero Hour"), to awesome but limited (fighting the Sun Eater in "Final Night;"; Hal wins and reignites the sun, but it kills him, at least for the time being.))

I think a battle between these two is a natural. Parallax as retconned in 2004-2005 seems even more like Dark Phoenix than before: Hal was given immense power, not only by the Oan Central Battery, but also through serving as a host for the Parallax parasite, which has mind-control powers and is able to project enormous energy constructs. The parallels with the Phoenix entity are obvious, though Phoenix isn't inherently evil, like Parallax.

As for Phoenix, I haven't read every Phoenix story, either, and Marvel's multiple retcons have thoroughly botched any chance of coherence in an appraisal of what Phoenix can do, but here's Wikipedia's summary of the powers of Phoenix...

"The Phoenix's power could tap into the energy provided by life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existence. It can wield this energy to project beams of immense concussive force. It can transmigrate throughout time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole. It then reforms itself upon reaching its destination. It can directly absorb energy such as Cyclops' optic blasts or the entire energy of a sun. It is also capable of absorbing the energy and life-force from a foe. The Phoenix Force can control life and death itself and is the Guardian of Creation. As it is the nexus of all psionic energy, it has mental abilities of cosmic scope, including telepathy and telekinesis, and often seeks out hosts who have strong enough psionic abilities so they will be able to withstand the force's power, such as that of Emma Frost who could not bear the burden of Phoenix when it bonded with her. When the Phoenix Force enters a host, a fragment of its powers is left behind when it leaves. Even a small fragment can be stronger than an unexperienced host using the Phoenix's powers, as seen by Rachel Summers, who had full access to the Force, but her opponent threw moons at her with only a fragment (the Phoenix Force decided to not interfere with mortal beings and only allowed Rachel to tap into the force's powers at that time). When bonded with a host, the Phoenix Force amplifies their abilities to incalculable levels. It can manipulate matter on a sub-atomic level (e.g., turning wood to gold, stone to crystal, etc). It can teleport others across vast distances across space and can also open wormholes to access corners of the Universe."

Sounds like Parallax vs. Dark Phoenix would be one Hell of a fight.

[Doctor Pym]

Any other requests?

http://i10.tinypic.com/6gd3x48.jpg
If I remember this correctly, that wasn't DARK Phoenix. This is from a "What If?" story in which Jean survived her trial by the Shi'ar, only to be psychically lobotomized by them, but regained her Phoenix powers just in time to save Scott from Terrax.

When that earned her the attention of Galactus himself, Jean-as-Phoenix seemed roughly equal in power.

Dark Phoenix may be even more powerful than Galactus (after all, Jean as DP didn't need any apparatus to devour a star, much less a planet)... and from what I've seen, Hal-as-Parallax would kick the Big G's ass, too.

[Ink]

dark phoenix

[whd]

I'd have to say Dark Phoenix would win this one. Jean was able to fly in and destroy a star for fun, Parallax reignited one sun by sacrificing himself. Seems like a pretty big difference in power scale.

[Immovable Blob]

The (original) Beyonder takes them all.

[Doctor Pym]

I'd have to say Dark Phoenix would win this one. Jean was able to fly in and destroy a star for fun, Parallax reignited one sun by sacrificing himself. Seems like a pretty big difference in power scale.
Better read "Zero Hour." Hal-as-Parallax was destroying the entire universe.

[Batwing]

Better read "Zero Hour." Hal-as-Parallax was destroying the entire universe.

Hmmmm... tough choice. Both are immensely powerful, and it also depends on how they are written. I'd have to say that it'll be an even match and the losers are Earth and many other inhabited planets that suffered because of the cosmic spillover of their spectacular battle!

[whd]

Better read "Zero Hour." Hal-as-Parallax was destroying the entire universe.

Phoenix was capable of that scale destruction as well. I still say she survived a supernova, while Parallax died in Final Night from a regular sun. :)

I know Dark Phoenix also died from an energy weapon, but she only died because she chose to do so.

[RichBamf]

Phoenix was capable of that scale destruction as well. I still say she survived a supernova, while Parallax died in Final Night from a regular sun. :)

I know Dark Phoenix also died from an energy weapon, but she only died because she chose to do so.

Um, it was only Hal Jordan's humanity that enabled him to gain control of Parallax and essentially kill himself in Final Night.

That'd make your argument kind of moot, wouldn't it?

[RichBamf]

dark phoenix, no contest whatsoever.

I love how people say this sort of thing with no argument whatsoever...:confused2

[whd]

Um, it was only Hal Jordan's humanity that enabled him to gain control of Parallax and essentially kill himself in Final Night.

That'd make your argument kind of moot, wouldn't it?

My argument is undone by the irresistible force that is the retcon.:confused2

[RichBamf]

My argument is undone by the irresistible force that is the retcon.:confused2

:laugh: :thumbs2:

Seriously though, I don't think Phoenix would wipe the floor with Parallax.

He can alter all reality, he could wipe the phoenix force out of existence. I've never seen Phoenix destroy time before.

[rilynil]

Dark Phoenix vs. who????

[RichBamf]

Dark Phoenix vs. who????

Neil, don't make me come down there! :stick: :laugh:

[rilynil]

Neil, don't make me come down there! :stick: :laugh:
:laugh: :thumbs2:

[Doctor Pym]

Phoenix was capable of that scale destruction as well.
When did Phoenix ever have the power to destroy the universe without the M'Kraan Crystal?

Hal was basically obliterating *everything* using only his own / Parallax's powers, and creating a new universe as he went along. As far as I know, in the Marvel Universe, only the wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet ever had THAT kind of power.

So it seems to me that the only way Jean has a chance is if Hal isn't at full power, or she's able to breach his psychic defenses before he can let her have it.

The qualifiers here are...

(1) The ultimate limits of Phoenix's powers have never been established. We do know that it starts out "small" (able to kick Magneto's ass, then Galactus's) and grows exponentially.

(2) Tetra pointed out Jean's weakness (the locus of all that power being in a mortal human body), but that applies equally to Hal as Parallax. "Zero Hour" proved that.

I wish I thought DC and Marvel would put Kurt Busiek and George Perez (or Claremont and Byrne) to work on this one... it would rock like nothing else.

[Bartholomew]

Dark Phoenix isn't even Jean's most powerful form. It's the White Phoenix which Jean ultimately ascends to.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/NosDos/n154p22.jpg

This is her holding the entire universe in her hands, right after she amputates an entire time line and cuts it from existence.

[Doctor Pym]

Dark Phoenix isn't even Jean's most powerful form. It's the White Phoenix which Jean ultimately ascends to.
This is her holding the entire universe in her hands, right after she amputates an entire time line and cuts it from existence.
That's it! Parallax and Phoenix can update that scene from "Sleeping Beauty" (where the fairies keep zapping Aurora's dress into their favorite colors), only this time making and unmaking each other's universes!

Or they could just call it a day and segue off to a cozy nebula somewhere to create GREEN PHOENIX, the Love Child from Beyond Time...

But seriously, though, the question was Parallax vs. Dark Phoenix, and I think it's been established that the story could set those two incarnations of Hal and Jean at roughly equal power levels.

Much more of this, and I'll have to plot the story...

[RichBamf]

Dark Phoenix isn't even Jean's most powerful form. It's the White Phoenix which Jean ultimately ascends to.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/NosDos/n154p22.jpg

This is her holding the entire universe in her hands, right after she amputates an entire time line and cuts it from existence.

That was in an alternate future, though, surely they don't count.

Plus it was from Morrison's run of X-men, and who wants to hear anymore about that? :laugh:

[Bartholomew]

That was in an alternate future, though, surely they don't count.

Plus it was from Morrison's run of X-men, and who wants to hear anymore about that? :laugh:

It happened though because it had a direct impact on what is happening now. the white hot room is beyond conventional time and space encompassing all that will happen, has happened and has yet to happen. That's why Jean experiences various echoes throughout the entire Morrison run, and when she says Live Scott, Live, it's also said as she is dying in New X-Men 150. If this is an alternate future, then all the current books would be an alternate universe because Jean's actions allowed Cyclops to continue the school where as originally he lost hope and quit.

She also references her actions in Phoenix Endsong, where she says "here I come tomorrow....killing the bug people over and over again."

I liked Morrison's run. There were aspects of it I thought were not good, but overall it's a better run than many of the others I have read.

[RichBamf]

It happened though because it had a direct impact on what is happening now. the white hot room is beyond conventional time and space encompassing all that will happen, has happened and has yet to happen. That's why Jean experiences various echoes throughout the entire Morrison run, and when she says Live Scott, Live, it's also said as she is dying in New X-Men 150. If this is an alternate future, then all the current books would be an alternate universe because Jean's actions allowed Cyclops to continue the school where as originally he lost hope and quit.

She also references her actions in Phoenix Endsong, where she says "here I come tomorrow....killing the bug people over and over again."

I liked Morrison's run. There were aspects of it I thought were not good, but overall it's a better run than many of the others I have read.


Ok then.

So Dark Phoenix is a child of the universe. her powers can aparently rival the Living Tribunal.

BUT it is only due to Jean and Phoenix becoming one that Jean had full access to the 'White Hot Room' (another plane of existence in the M'Krann Crystal). This level of power was only available to her once she became The White Phoenix of the Crown.

Both in 'Here Comes Tomorrow' and 'Phoenix: Endsong', Jean has to conquer Dark Phoenix's effects on her before she can become one with the P.Force and become the White Phoenix.

White Phoenix is an entirely different aspect of the Phoenix force, and therefore cannot be considered in this fight, as Dark Phoenix is far too unstable too access the WHRoom and disinfect the universe.

[lord odin]

Ok then.

So Dark Phoenix is a child of the universe. her powers can aparently rival the Living Tribunal.
BUT it is only due to Jean and Phoenix becoming one that Jean had full access to the 'White Hot Room' (another plane of existence in the M'Krann Crystal). This level of power was only available to her once she became The White Phoenix of the Crown.

Both in 'Here Comes Tomorrow' and 'Phoenix: Endsong', Jean has to conquer Dark Phoenix's effects on her before she can become one with the P.Force and become the White Phoenix.P.S. i`m saying the story is dumb not you Rich you`re just special.

White Phoenix is an entirely different aspect of the Phoenix force, and therefore cannot be considered in this fight, as Dark Phoenix is far too unstable too access the WHRoom and disinfect the universe.
Now that`s just plain dumb:thumbsdow
How can she be on the level of the Living Tribunal?
The Tribunal is more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet or at least the same seeing how he was going to take it from Adam Warlock.

[Tetragrammaton]

The Living Tribunal is an entity of the multiverse, but I don't think his powers within any one universe are limitless.

What have we really ever seen this is guy do?

[RichBamf]

Now that`s just plain dumb:thumbsdow
How can she be on the level of the Living Tribunal?
The Tribunal is more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet or at least the same seeing how he was going to take it from Adam Warlock.

In terms of reality changing powers, I see nothing wrong with saying that.

I was researching Phoenix on Wiki, and this is what I found:

'The extent of the Phoenix Force's abilities has not been fully clarified. In a certain retconned issue, the Phoenix can be seen holding the Universe-616 in the palm of her hands - modifying them at will. This indicates that her powers rivaled even that of the Living Tribunal.'


Although, it is only suggested.

[HalJordanFan]

In terms of reality changing powers, I see nothing wrong with saying that.

I was researching Phoenix on Wiki, and this is what I found:

'The extent of the Phoenix Force's abilities has not been fully clarified. In a certain retconned issue, the Phoenix can be seen holding the Universe-616 in the palm of her hands - modifying them at will. This indicates that her powers rivaled even that of the Living Tribunal.'


Although, it is only suggested.


At one point wasn't Thanos more powerful than the Tribunal with The Heart of the Universe?

[lord odin]

At one point wasn't Thanos more powerful than the Tribunal with The Heart of the Universe?

Yes in that lame story which doesn`t make sense because the tribunal is above anyone or anything in one universe.
He`s in the multiverse so one universe and anyone in it(Thanos) cannot hurt him.:thumbsdow

[Roguewarrior]

I think that Dark Phoenix would win hands down. the Phoenix Force is a primal force of the universe right! Not that I am sure what Parallax was but a Evil Hal with no inhabitions to kill, mame, and look tough.

[Batwing]

Like in real life, our character or nature basically inhibits us, i.e. we can often be our own worst enemy.

Who has the edge, Hal as Parallax or "Jean" as Dark Phoenix?

I think Jean has the greater propensity for the negative, and this may channel more destructive power into Dark Phoenix, perhaps giving her the edge over Parallax.

[Doctor Pym]

I think Jean has the greater propensity for the negative, and this may channel more destructive power into Dark Phoenix, perhaps giving her the edge over Parallax.
Good point. Even at his most powerful, Hal-as-Parallax didn't savage his allies unless he was attacked... and then, he took no pleasure in it. Dark Phoenix seemed to enjoy attacking the X-Men.

And Hal had phases, even under the influence of the Parallax parasite, when he tried to help people (e.g., from restoring John's ability to walk to promising to recreate Krypton)... not exactly something that Dark Phoenix was famous for.

What does that say about Hal's humanity in the face of possession by an immensely powerful evil parasite, vs. how Jean handled symbiosis with a being that wasn't even evil... just immensely powerful?

[RichBamf]

I think that Dark Phoenix would win hands down. the Phoenix Force is a primal force of the universe right! Not that I am sure what Parallax was but a Evil Hal with no inhabitions to kill, mame, and look tough.

He was a Green Lantern's body playing host to the embodiment of fear, with reality and universe altering powers.

[Doctor Pym]

I think that Dark Phoenix would win hands down. the Phoenix Force is a primal force of the universe right! Not that I am sure what Parallax was but a Evil Hal with no inhabitions to kill, mame, and look tough.
I don't understand why people would want to weigh in on this if they don't know much about Parallax, but think Jean should win anyway. This isn't a beauty contest.

[Roguewarrior]

I don't understand why people would want to weigh in on this if they don't know much about Parallax, but think Jean should win anyway. This isn't a beauty contest.

Sorry I am afraid that my comment was not very clear. I am aware of what Parallax was about but He just seemed to be an excuse to have another uberpowerful being in the DCU. Besides with these vs things especially cross companies who can really say who is more powerful. There is no ultimate measure as to who has is the strongest or who is the most powerful. It pretty much comes down to a popularity contest. Which is what I was doing. I like Phoenix better then Parallax, so I went with her. :)

[Perna]

I can beat them both, so I win!!!! :D

[marvelboi77]

Jean Grey wins.

[RichBamf]

I can beat them both, so I win!!!! :D

Midget powers activate! :buttrock: