what exactly constitutes a garage kit?

[Kdawg59]

Might be the dumbest question around but I'll throw myself out there for the abuse.

Other than paint what is the difference between kits and something released by the company as a pre-paint?

Do you get all the pieces and just put together? Please explain...

[nbr3bagshotrow]

You have to build it in the garage not the basement.....otherwise they would be called basement kits.:laugh:

[Kdawg59]

that might be some of that abuse, I was talkin' 'bout funny guy?:)

[Danno]

Good question. The Garage kit has been around for quite some time actually. Many of the sculptors we see doing pieces for the pre-paint companies had started in the Garage kit hobby (Randy Bowen, Bill Paquet, Barsom, Shawn Nagel...just to name a few). Back in the day, there really were no pre-paints like we see today...the only way that you could get a 3d version of a character that you liked was that you or some fan sculpted it...made like 30, 50 sum odd pieces and you were lucky enough to buy one.

It is termed "Garage Kit" as back in the day....the sculptor/producer would take his sculpture and mold/cast the piece in his garage (due to toxic fumes and the need for good air circulation). Not a big business, more of a intimate fan driven hobby.

Garage kits today still have very low runs (many times 50 pieces or less) and the sculptor adds the sculpture to his on-going resume of pieces (for potential hire or freelance from the big companies (prepaints/toys)). The great thing about kits is that you have a hand in the final outcome. A chance to feel that "I did that" feeling. Another is that many times the kits are much more intricate or have much higher levels of detail than a prepaint. The number of parts/pieces or complexity can drive the cost of assembley/paint up when they are produced...where-as a kit can be as simple or complex as the sculptor see fit (an example is the Werewolf Warrior from Pegaso...it consists of 44 pieces (very high for a resin kit...but makes for a good example)). Another thing that I notice is that pre-paints tend to be softer in detail than a standard garage kit and there are a number of reasons for this. Pre-paints are normally designed/sculpted for easier production, longer mold life, and minimal assembley. Then the paints used are usually very thick (to hide any imperfections in the casting such as pin holes), these thicker paints also obscure detail (an example is if you look at a Sideshow LOTR bust...take a piece and strip the paint off..all the tiny skin details/textures re-appear once you remove that thick paint and able to see what the sculptor really did).

But all in all, I see the prepaint market (from companies like Bowen Designs, Palisades, Sideshow, etc..) as an evolution from the Garage kit hobby.

[DFury]

Great thread
thanks for the input dannodaman...
because of this forum I plan on picking up a couple of these. I have no fear of putting one together even a 44 piece item, but it's the painting of these that scares the hell out of me. I would never even attempt to paint these.. It would be a travesty on my part. The Batman by Formation Designs would look good unpainted, though I would also like to see how this looks painted.
While looking around some of the Garage kit sites I came across some of Alterton's work, I really like this piece big21 (http://www.iespana.es/sculptorscorner/Alterton/BIG21.htm) But i really dont like some of the colors that were used in this example, primarly the Big Gorilla should be Black SilverBack With some graying in the Jaw area.
So finding someone and having them paint it the way i would like to see it, is a problem that i am facing, plus the cost of getting one painted as well.

:thumbs2:

df

[Kdawg59]

That is precisely the answer I was hoping for with this question Danno... you are DaMAN!

Thanks
~Dawg

[CKinSD]

Danno thanks for getting this one explained very well.

Dfury I was once scared as hell to paint my own, but now I am just really realy nervous. lol it is actually pretty damn fun to do it yourself.

[DFury]

I know it would be fun, but these pieces are just to expensive and nice to be ruined by my painting skills. :redface:

df

[giro]

I Agree Dfury When You Think That The Statue Runs For About 125.00 With Shipping Then To Have It Painted Correctly Which Is Probably More Than The Statue Your Looking At Probably Over $300. Bucks Damn But I Have To Get This Batman One Just Awsome From Formation Designs

[grendelscott]

What is the average price for getting something like that painted? Is it really around $300 for a paint job? I know a lot goes into it, but I know nothing about what a painter charges...

[formation designs]

I think it all depends on the painter, size of the piece, level of detail, etc. I’m not sure what the average price range would be for a 1/6th or 1/8th scale piece, but again there are a lot of factors to add in.

Any input Danno? :D

-Scott

[giro]

Its All Worth It To Me For A Very Detailed Peice That's One Of A Kind , And When Painted And Prepped Correctly Will Just Blow Away Anything I Have Right Now

[Kdawg59]

Love your stuff Scott.

The Logan you guys did is incredible...

[Danno]

WHEW! Well.....it's really tough to answer that question. It really depends on the painter and the piece to be painted. Typically, the greater the number of parts...or the more complex the kit or the paint scheme...the more expensive the project becomes (for example...painting a Black Panther would be far less expensive then painting a Spiderman (having to paint on all those webs and such)). It also depends on things like casting, how clean is the casting...how much putty work, resculpting, pin holes and type of work is required. I wish I could provide a more definative answer...but there are so many factors involved that it's hard to give a price.

[RickDTM]

I agree w/ Danno. Price for a garage kit, (or even a statue paint master) all depends on the complexity of the piece to be painted. That, and how much detail is involved, any conversions, changes to the piece etc.....

Rick

[DFury]

Danno,
Thanks for responding,
I can understand how the various possibilities in your post would effect the total price of the paint job.
When your painting the piece do you prefer a totally unassembled kit?
So that your painting the individual pieces then assemble them, or would the person your painting for, do all or some of the assembly?
To put the price of painting and possible assembly into perspective can i ask what the price was or would be for two of the statues in your portfolio.
1.) Iron Fist (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4545821&uid=450444)
2.) THE WEREWOLF WARRIOR (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4545287&uid=450444)
These i think would make fine examples of the broad spectrum we are looking at here, One has 7 pieces and the other 21 and is obviously more detailed.
I just want to say thank you ahead of time for filling the uniformed in!!!

df :D

[Crom]

Question for those in the know.

Can you recommend some kits that are a good place to begin with? Especially in terms of price and simplicity for a complete novice. I lean towards the comic book/fantasy realms, like most everyone else here. :wink2:

Also, are there any books or websites you would recommend for how to put a kit together and paint it?

Thanks!

[Zurbaran1]

Can you recommend some kits that are a good place to begin with? Especially in terms of price and simplicity for a complete novice. I lean towards the comic book/fantasy realms, like most everyone else here. :wink2:

Thanks!

I would recommend the Toy Biz kits :D If you're lucky they might even have the one piece Doop. You shouldn't mangle that one too badly :stick:

[Crom]

I would recommend the Toy Biz kits :D If you're lucky they might even have the one piece Doop. You shouldn't mangle that one too badly :stick:


Good idea. I will paint it brown and call it Zurb. I have a pretty good idea where it can be displayed too. :tounge:

[Zurbaran1]

Question for those in the know.

Can you recommend some kits that are a good place to begin with? Especially in terms of price and simplicity for a complete novice. I lean towards the comic book/fantasy realms, like most everyone else here. :wink2:

Also, are there any books or websites you would recommend for how to put a kit together and paint it?

Thanks!

And check out these sites:

Amazing Figure Modeler (http://www.amazingmodeler.com/)

Modeler's Resource (http://www.modelersresource.com/)

When I first got into garage kits I found the Gremlins site to be a good springboard. Check out Gremlins in the Garage (http://www.gremlins.com/index.html)

[RickDTM]

Crom,
Look for the David Fisher tapes on the Amazing Figure Modeler site Zurb mentioned. His first 2 tapes deal exclusively w/ how to assemble and paint resin and vinyl kits. It's quite informative.

Rick

[Crom]

Cool. Thanks.

[bigjohn550]

There have been some great answers on here from Danno, Rick, and Zurb for posting those websites. If you want a simple kit to start off with, but a kickass kit indeed, I would recommend the Stewie kit over at Devil's Drifter's website. As far as painting goes, you just have to try it out. Once you get the hang of it you would be surprised at what you really can do. You can either hand paint the kits or invest in a good cheap airbrush to learn with. I would honestly recommend stating away from the Aztek brand of airbrush though. I have one put away because the interchangable tips were just too fussy to deal with. Iwata and Badger have some good airbrushes. For references, the clubhouse is probably the best place. There is a how to section, along with the convenience of asking many of the members there. They are a nice group of guys who are always willing to help.

[Danno]

Hey Dfury,

Sorry for my late responce. Anyweays...prices can start as little as say maybe something like $50.00 for something small and simple to $1000.00 +++ for complex/large/ and potentially custom work. Something like the Iron Fist, you would be looking at about $200.00 for a paint up. The Werewolf Warrior, good grief...you don't even want to go there, LOL!

As for beginner kits...I really do not recommend the Toy Biz. Yes, they are cheap...but they are also a putty nightmare...and allot of work to get looking nice. Prep work is typically the hardest part...all the sanding, seaming, putty, etc...and many times takes as long (if not longer) than the actual painting of a piece. Rather I would recommend a good resin kit, but pick something that fits together well (some pieces are so well de-constructed that they are nearly putty free....and that is HUGE) and something that would be a more simple paint scheme.

If you are interested in learning more on painting and assembly of kits, you can subscribe to one (or all) of the Figure Model Magazines. There are:

Kitbuilders Magazine (http://www.kitbuildersmagazine.com/)
Amazing Figure Modeler (http://www.amazingmodeler.com/)
Modelers Resource (http://www.modelersresource.com/)

Each magazine offers tutorials on building, painting, etc... and can be a wealth of information to anyone starting out.

The best advice I can offer is start small. Pick out a piece that you like and think you may enjoy painting. Pick up some paints that are specific to what you are painting. If you are not familiar with airbrushing, that's not a problem, it is something you can grow into.

[DFury]

Danno,
Thanks for the advice.. lol' yeah that werewolf looks like its a handfull.. I did try that Robin from toy-biz about a yr or so ago and gave up in the middle.. I would love a good resin kit built up for me at some point but its just going to have to wait..
I thank you for your input in this thread it has been very insightfull..

df

[Zurbaran1]

Danno: I was only giving Crom a hard time when I mentioned the Toy Biz kits. They're cheap for a reason :)

[Danno]

Hey Zurb,

No worries, some people just don't know how tough those kits are. :eek:
Where as for resin garage kits...I truely believe anyone could it. :thumbs2:

[DFury]

Danno..
You have never seen me paint, I screw up the Rocket Kits i build for the boys.
lol'

df

[Danno]

Hey DF,

LOL! I think I would mess up a model rocket as well

[secretasianman]

When it comes to a paint job for a garage kit all that I can say is that you get what you pay for, but on average you can get a pretty nice paint job for about $50 to $150

[RickDTM]

DFury - I've built a few rocket kits in my younger days....MUCH harder than resin!! All those fiddly fins and such.....Gads.

It's tough to put a price on the work that's required on garage kits IMHO. For me, most of it depends on the amt of work I'm going to have to put into the piece to get it ready for paint. If the kit is well cast, w/ a minimun of air bubbles, pin holes, off-sets, etc....then you can adjust your price accordingly. If the kit is just the opposite, well, that's a TON of work to get a piece ready to go, and it will increase the price a bit. Still, there's nothing like the satisfaction one gets from pleasing a customer who enjoyed your work enough to commission you to build up something that's special to them, and hopefully will be displayed w/ pride.

My. 02

Rick

[Zurbaran1]

DFury - I've built a few rocket kits in my younger days....MUCH harder than resin!! All those fiddly fins and such.....Gads.

It's tough to put a price on the work that's required on garage kits IMHO. For me, most of it depends on the amt of work I'm going to have to put into the piece to get it ready for paint. If the kit is well cast, w/ a minimun of air bubbles, pin holes, off-sets, etc....then you can adjust your price accordingly. If the kit is just the opposite, well, that's a TON of work to get a piece ready to go, and it will increase the price a bit. Still, there's nothing like the satisfaction one gets from pleasing a customer who enjoyed your work enough to commission you to build up something that's special to them, and hopefully will be displayed w/ pride.

My. 02

Rick

Rick, do you also build up Garage Kits or are you strickly a painter?

[RickDTM]

Zurb - Oh yeah, that's what I do. I started out painting gaming miniatures, then I discovered resin and vinyl garage kits. All of the pieces on my site are garage kits. I prep, assemble and then paint the buggers. Getting asked by Amazing Figure Modeler to write how-to kit articles for them led to me getting hired by Diamond to do their paint masters.

I know most folks here despise Diamond stuff, but hopefully not the paint jobs! :redface:


Rick

[Zurbaran1]

Zurb - Oh yeah, that's what I do. I started out painting gaming miniatures, then I discovered resin and vinyl garage kits. All of the pieces on my site are garage kits. I prep, assemble and then paint the buggers. Getting asked by Amazing Figure Modeler to write how-to kit articles for them led to me getting hired by Diamond to do their paint masters.

I know most folks here despise Diamond stuff, but hopefully not the paint jobs! :redface:


Rick

Well bro, you rock! Your paint jobs are fantastic. I've been in a few of the gaming stores here and some of the paint jobs I see on the minatures just blow me away. I just can't imagine how anyone can do the level of detail when painting something so small. Let me say it again you rock!

[RickDTM]

Thanx hombre'! Having a good magnifying glass helps! :rolleyes:

Painting minis is a blast! Games Workshop makes some of the best, and they really have some cool LotR minis. Their Balrog rivals the Sideshow one in detail, and it's not small either!

Painting minis is what started me painting for other folks, and convinced me to start Dragonstooth Miniatures as a brush for hire, but garage kits are definitely my passion.


Rick

[Kdawg59]

Zurb - Oh yeah, that's what I do. I started out painting gaming miniatures, then I discovered resin and vinyl garage kits. All of the pieces on my site are garage kits. I prep, assemble and then paint the buggers. Getting asked by Amazing Figure Modeler to write how-to kit articles for them led to me getting hired by Diamond to do their paint masters.

I know most folks here despise Diamond stuff, but hopefully not the paint jobs! :redface:


Rick

Not everyone despises all the diamond stuff Rick. You are a helluva talented painter man.

[RickDTM]

Thanx KDawg! I appreciate it man.....I don't get to do all the Diamond paint masters, there are two of us.

[Kdawg59]

so which pieces have you worked on recently? I seem to remember you did the cloak and dagger yes? The master was incredible. Have you done any of the Moore pieces? Phoenix?

[RickDTM]

Lesseee....Latest paint masters were the Cloak and Dagger, Longshot, Gambit, Sabretooth, the (gads) Dr. Doom, Evil Ash, Linsner Dawn Statue (just finished). Hadn't had a chance to work on any of the Moore pieces (yet!) or the Phoenix.

Rick

[Kdawg59]

any pictures of the Dawn Rick???

[RickDTM]

Can't post them yet man, sorry. She's still a secret.... IMHO, if she were a kit, she would sell like gangbusters.....


Rick

[Kdawg59]

well as soon as you can m'man post more of your stuff for sure...

The masters are unmatched in quality when you go back and look at the mass produced ones. ala your cloak and dagger... wow those were cool.

I would love to see you paint up my hulk man... How much does something like that cost?

[RickDTM]

I will post the Dawn when I can. She's a great piece!

Price usually depends on the size of the piece, amount of clean up, etc.... How big is he?

Rick

[Kdawg59]

he's 1/8 scale

squating in at 8" tall (13.5 pre squat)

roughly 6.5 inches wide at the shoulders... curious...

hearing about what all goes into your process start to finish would be awesome Rick...

[RickDTM]

Kdawg- Drop me an e-mail at rickdtm@cablespeed.com and we'll yak about it! :)


Rick

[CKinSD]

damn Kdawg if you get Rick to paint your hulk that would be awesome. so freggin cool.

now Rick your hints are driving me nuts..... help a brother out. heeh

[RickDTM]

@CK - How much money you got? :eplus2:

Sorry man, I would post her if I could, but I just finished her and I can't until she appears in print somewhere.....


Rick

[Kdawg59]

That's usually the way it is. No one wants to give anything away before it is ready to be unleashed... Can't wait for you to post some stuff Rick, even if it isn't Dawn for a little while. Show us more:)

I'll shoot you a note tonight when I get home from work madman...

[RickDTM]

Kdawg- Awright man, here are a couple of shots of the masters for these three.....

http://www.dragonstoothminiatures.com/images/webposts/Longshot%20Frnt%201.JPG

http://www.dragonstoothminiatures.com/images/webposts/Gambit%20Final%201.JPG

Pretty sure you guys have seen this one, but.....

http://www.dragonstoothminiatures.com/images/webposts/Final%20Frnt%202%20center.JPG


Rick

[Kdawg59]

Dam Rick... those look awesome... That longshot looks very different from other pics I have seen. More vibrant and lush... that's awesome man... truly... I WANT MORE:)

[CKinSD]

DAMN rICK THOSE ARE SWEET AS HELL. Love that longshot. the mojo base looks very colorful and cool. extremly nice work on all of them.

[Danno]

Hey Rick!

Beautiful work as always...awesome stuff!
Love the coat on Gambit!!!! :buttrock:

[Kdawg59]

It is beautiful stuff indeed. Thanks for the quote again Rick. Saty tuned for me man.

Your stuff is awesome too Danno...

[RickDTM]

@KDawg - I'll be watching.... :D

@CK and Danno - Thanx fellas!

Guys, you really need to pester Danno to post some shots of his Werewolf / Orc diorama......damnnnnnnnnnnn


Rick

[Kdawg59]

Yeah Danno post some stuff. pester:)....

[Zurbaran1]

Rick:

I bow to your greatness !!!!! http://members.aol.com/browrob549/emo/common006.gif

[RickDTM]

Zurb - LOL! No greatness man, just a few years of paint slingin'!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go breathe some Dull Coat fumes..... :cool:

[Zurbaran1]

You are modest to a fault. Now give me back your mojo, kdawg's is getting lonely. :)

[Kdawg59]

You are modest to a fault. Now give me back your mojo, kdawg's is getting lonely. :)

Take it Zurb... My mojo needs a playmate!

[giro]

wow incredible stuff , yeah danno post some pic's , great work rick

[RickDTM]

@ Zurb - Sorry man, Kdawg's mojo is going to have to suffer! I NEEDS all I can get!!

@Kdawg - See above!

@Giro- Thanx!!

Yeah Danno! Post some pics!!!!!


Rick

[Daredevil]

up for newbies

[Bullseye]

I was wondering whether this was an old thread. Hey DD your certainly going through the archives.