Trans who?!! Blu-Ray WINS!!!

[MiamiLoco]

From Blu-Ray.com:

Despite selling 115,000 copies, the Transformer HD DVD didn't sell enough to take the sales lead away from Blu-ray. Winning yet another week in software sales (51% of total unit sales), Blu-ray has yet to lose a week to the rival format this year. Consumers once again voiced that their preferred high definition format is Blu-ray, and despite not having access to this year's 3rd highest grossing film, they still support the format.

Next week, SPIDER-MAN!!!

[DSET]

thats saaad

prolly becuz of the 2for1 deals but even so

saaad

[Bullseye]

I am amazed that HD-DVD did not win this week with probably their biggest title release. No doubt the sales for the BD side won it for them and it appears to show that HD-DVD collectors are not buying other titles in any great numbers.

Great news for BD.

[Trilogy]

That is surprising. I would have thought that Transformers would have gave them the edge.

[The General]

Doesn't surprise me at all. Once I saw that 2 for 1 sale I knew Blu Ray would come out on top for the week.

[Bullseye]

I'm sure Trans will be #1 disc. Imagine they could have sold twice as many to the BD side lol.

[The General]

I'm sure Trans will be #1 disc. Imagine they could have sold twice as many to the BD side lol.

Laugh it up zombie boy.:thumbs2:

[Bullseye]

LOL. Oh yeah Hostage and Gangs of New York arrived today.

[cougartrace]

The problem is BD and HD both aren't selling well enough in regards to regular DVD's. This slows down the movement to HD quality DVD movies.

[IronFist]

The problem is BD and HD both aren't selling well enough in regards to regular DVD's. This slows down the movement to HD quality DVD movies.

And part of the reason they're not selling in numbers comparable to or better than regular DVDs is that there's a large segment of consumers who aren't supporting either format until the industry settles on one. I've even gone so far as to all but stop buying regular DVDs, too, because I know I'll eventually want to upgrade the title.

[cougartrace]

And part of the reason they're not selling in numbers comparable to or better than regular DVDs is that there's a large segment of consumers who aren't supporting either format until the industry settles on one. I've even gone so far as to all but stop buying regular DVDs, too, because I know I'll eventually want to upgrade the title.

I agree. I won't be a new player until the winner is decided. I think price is also a factor when you weigh in the players and discs.

[Trilogy]

And part of the reason they're not selling in numbers comparable to or better than regular DVDs is that there's a large segment of consumers who aren't supporting either format until the industry settles on one. I've even gone so far as to all but stop buying regular DVDs, too, because I know I'll eventually want to upgrade the title.

I`m sure that there will be many that will not make the jump even if there a dominant format. Simply because they are content with standard dvd.

[Bullseye]

The only way this is going to work is for one format and for the companies to eventually cease releasing standard dvds. Which could be years.

[MiamiLoco]

I love it when HD-DVD Borgs say that they lost because of the BOGO sales. Trans was the highest selling HD format title EVER!! and even with that, they didn't win, pretty sad. Also, the BOGO sale at Circuit City worked for HD-DVDs too ;)

[Trilogy]

I agree, until dvd`s are no longer produced, Blu-ray/HD-DVD will never get a large share of the market.

[Saturday_Knight_Surfer]

Maybe there won't be a winner between the two format. What if they both lose face to HD-video stores online. It may be a matter of monthes/years before BD or HD-DVD format wins. And this time could profit to online video distribution.

[Bullseye]

And that is what HD-DVDs biggest supporter Microsoft wants.

[Natrix]

I love it when HD-DVD Borgs say that they lost because of the BOGO sales. Trans was the highest selling HD format title EVER!! and even with that, they didn't win, pretty sad. Also, the BOGO sale at Circuit City worked for HD-DVDs too ;)

To be fair though, the CC HD DVD BOGO was an error that didn't last the whole week though and the general public that doesn't spend a lot of time on forums wouldn't have known about it. The Blu Ray movies had a sign by them advertising the sale for the whole week.

[Freon]

I'm surprised Blu-ray only had a 51% share even with the BOGO. A couple more weeks and they'll have a smaller market share than HD DVD. Wal-Mart is carrying A2's now and with all those machines I'd think they would increase the amount of HD DVD titles they carry.

[MiamiLoco]

I'm surprised Blu-ray only had a 51% share even with the BOGO. A couple more weeks and they'll have a smaller market share than HD DVD.
How do you figure?! It's not every week that BD has to compete against the highest selling HD titles EVER!! And STILL wins!!

[cougartrace]

How do you figure?! It's not every week that BD has to compete against the highest selling HD titles EVER!! And STILL wins!!

Loco you seem almost too passionate for BD. You know you are just a tool for these big companies laughing at this debate all the way to the bank.

[Freon]

How do you figure?! It's not every week that BD has to compete against the highest selling HD titles EVER!! And STILL wins!!

Exactly like I said. Most people only buy one copy of Transformers, on the other hand if there's a BOGO a lot of people tend to go batsh!t and buy up every title they can... even if the title isn't that great.

[Bullseye]

Your not suggesting that BD supporters are buying everything even if they don't like the movie? Thats nonsense.

BTW the BOGO deal was also available to the HD-DVD side in alot of the stores running those deals.

[Bullseye]

I'm surprised Blu-ray only had a 51% share even with the BOGO. A couple more weeks and they'll have a smaller market share than HD DVD. Wal-Mart is carrying A2's now and with all those machines I'd think they would increase the amount of HD DVD titles they carry.

With SM3 and the Trilogy coming out next week in the US i would guess it will be back to the 2 to 1 ratio.

[Freon]

Your not suggesting that BD supporters are buying everything even if they don't like the movie? Thats nonsense.

BTW the BOGO deal was also available to the HD-DVD side in alot of the stores running those deals.

Not sure why everything has to be in black and white with so many Blu-ray supporters but okay I'll put it a different way... Titles that people would be less inclined to buy at normal price, they would more likely pick up if they were going to get it for free.

Like the poster above mine said, the HD DVD deal was an error most people didn't even know about, you had to be on a forum to even know about the deal. By the time most knew about it, it was already too late.

[Freon]

With SM3 and the Trilogy coming out next week in the US i would guess it will be back to the 2 to 1 ratio.

Yeah, could be.

[Bullseye]

Not sure why everything has to be in black and white with so many Blu-ray supporters but okay I'll put it a different way... Titles that people would be less inclined to buy at normal price, they would more likely pick up if they were going to get it for free.

Like the poster above mine said, the HD DVD deal was an error most people didn't even know about, you had to be on a forum to even know about the deal. By the time most knew about it, it was already too late.

Fair enough but i think you will agree on both sides its black and white.:)

The reason i am so vexed about Transformers is that it was announced for BD by Paramount before they gave me the two fingers. So you will forgive me if i am delighted they did not win this week. Amazon hasn't even sent me an email to inform me that my order for Transformers on BD cannot be fulfilled lol

[rilynil]

I'm sticking with DVDs for the foreseeable. I don't have any interest at all in the format battle.

[Bullseye]

I'm sticking with DVDs for the foreseeable. I don't have any interest at all in the format battle.

You don't know what your missing lol. Its all good here. You should read AVS for some real heated debates. I avoid that place as its lost all credibility.

[MiamiLoco]

Loco you seem almost too passionate for BD. You know you are just a tool for these big companies laughing at this debate all the way to the bank.
Nah, i just decided to chose a side. Laughing to the bank? Uh, yeah, they are offering something that I like and I am paying for it. How exactly is that different from any OTHER product?

[Trilogy]

Not sure why everything has to be in black and white with so many Blu-ray supporters but okay I'll put it a different way... Titles that people would be less inclined to buy at normal price, they would more likely pick up if they were going to get it for free.

The same can be said for any format or any product for that matter.

[Trilogy]

Nah, i just decided to chose a side. Laughing to the bank? Uh, yeah, they are offering something that I like and I am paying for it. How exactly is that different from any OTHER product?

Was there even a choice involving "sides"? I know that I chose the format practically, considering what titles that I like and what studios release those titles. The fact that Blu-ray offers HD audio as well as HD picture on nearly every title was also a factor.

[The General]

You know what I find amusing? I didn't read anyone say that the only reason Blu Ray won the week was because of the BOGO sale.:peoples: Not in this thread or forum at least. Doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that Blu Ray would come out on top with the BOGO sale. Fake @ss zombie.:thumbs2: Maybe Nostradumbass can look into the future and tell us who's going to win the format war. You got something to say speak your mind dude instead of beating around the bush like a little *****.

Also the BOGO sale on the HD-DVD side was a mistake and after a day or so it was corrected - I know because I went to 3 different stores and called a bunch of others trying to pick up some movies and all the HD-DVDs were full price.

[The General]

I'm surprised Blu-ray only had a 51% share even with the BOGO.

I was surprised also. The format war gets more interesting by the day. It also gets more pathetic too. I wish one of these 2 camps would just win already. I jumped into the Hi def format and chose HD-DVD but I'm not going crazy buying up movies until theres a clear winner. I'm only buying movies I really like and no-brainers like Matrix and Transformers. I didn't pay much for my player and even if the HD camp loses I still have a kick ass up-converting DVD player and I can still enjoy the HD movies I already bought.

[noseeb13]

Here is another thing, the 115,000 number is from an outside source, these may not be confirmed numbers. Right now it is he said she said, 190k vs 115k.
Also can you really count the free discs in the BOGO sale?
That would be like counting the 5 free discs when you buy a player.

I don't think you can count something if you give it away for free, because we are looking at sales data not the number of discs that made them into homes this week.

Right now it is all propaganda.

[Bullseye]

You know what I find amusing? I didn't read anyone say that the only reason Blu Ray won the week was because of the BOGO sale.:peoples: Not in this thread or forum at least. .
I always find it amusing when zombies don’t read the full text.
I am amazed that HD-DVD did not win this week with probably their biggest title release. No doubt the sales for the BD side won it for them and it appears to show that HD-DVD collectors are not buying other titles in any great numbers.
Great news for BD.

Doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that Blu Ray would come out on top with the BOGO sale. Fake @ss zombie.:thumbs2: Maybe Nostradumbass can look into the future and tell us who's going to win the format war. You got something to say speak your mind dude instead of beating around the bush like a little *****. .
So no credit for the BDA to counter the sales of HD-DVDs biggest seller. I give Toshiba credit for bribing Paramount and Dreamworks.;)

Also the BOGO sale on the HD-DVD side was a mistake and after a day or so it was corrected - I know because I went to 3 different stores and called a bunch of others trying to pick up some movies and all the HD-DVDs were full price.
Ah so what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

[Bullseye]

I was surprised also. The format war gets more interesting by the day. It also gets more pathetic too. I wish one of these 2 camps would just win already. I jumped into the Hi def format and chose HD-DVD but I'm not going crazy buying up movies until theres a clear winner. I'm only buying movies I really like and no-brainers like Matrix and Transformers. I didn't pay much for my player and even if the HD camp loses I still have a kick ass up-converting DVD player and I can still enjoy the HD movies I already bought.

Sound to me your not buying with conviction. How many titles do you own?

[Bullseye]

Here is another thing, the 115,000 number is from an outside source, these may not be confirmed numbers. Right now it is he said she said, 190k vs 115k.
Also can you really count the free discs in the BOGO sale?
That would be like counting the 5 free discs when you buy a player.

I don't think you can count something if you give it away for free, because we are looking at sales data not the number of discs that made them into homes this week.

Right now it is all propaganda.

Technically what i think they did with amazon anyway was to reduce the price of both BDs in half and asign the half price to both Bds instead of selling one free. Thats how my invoice looks anyway.

[Bullseye]

Was there even a choice involving "sides"? I know that I chose the format practically, considering what titles that I like and what studios release those titles. The fact that Blu-ray offers HD audio as well as HD picture on nearly every title was also a factor.

That appears to be lost on HD-DVD collectors. While i am happy they are happy with interactivity they cannot understand me wanting PCM and the best possible audio.

For me the cinema has always been about picture and sound.

[Trilogy]

Visual and audio quality has always been my top priority too.

[BOSCO]

Is the visual and audio quality on HD-DVD inferior to BD and if so is it gonna be that noticable.

[Trilogy]

The visual quality is really no different between the two formats. However most HD-DVD only include a Dolby Digital Plus audio track which is not lossless. Blu-ray titles utilise either DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby True HD or PCM audio. All three are lossless audio tracks capable of producing sound equal to the audio master. DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD are still compressed like conventional audio tracks, so require amps/players to decode the signal. PCM audio is uncompressed and requires no decoding.

Many new Blu-ray titles are now including both Dolby True HD and PCM audio tracks giving you the option of two HD soundtracks to choose from.

[MiamiLoco]

Is the visual and audio quality on HD-DVD inferior to BD and if so is it gonna be that noticable.
http://www.paulbhatti.com/images/disney_ad.jpg

[BOSCO]

Ok forget about the stats.How many people here have sampled both formats and noticed that there is a major difference between HD-DVD and BD.

[Bullseye]

Ok forget about the stats.How many people here have sampled both formats and noticed that there is a major difference between HD-DVD and BD.

I have both. Picture quality is the same as i have about 6 titles on both formats. But BD has the edge on sound.

[Trilogy]

As I said previously, picture quality is not really an issue. Although there are some arguments to whether one format is better than the other.

For me its the audio. You cannot go wrong with a PCM soundtrack.

[Trilogy]

I have both. Picture quality is the same as i have about 6 titles on both formats. But BD has the edge on sound.

I think that's putting it mildly.

[JM28Cardiff]

I watched Pathfinder on standard DVD round my parents house on a CRT, and aside from the fact that the film itself is a little shonky, the picture quality was absolutely fine.

I watch both HD's and Blu Rays, but I rent, rather than buy. I dont think either format is anywhere near ready to take over from DVD just yet. DVD doesnt feel like an old format. Its only been around for, what, ten years? The vast majority of TV's out there are surely CRT's, until a majority of household's have Hi Def telly's (which I imagine is still a long way off), DVD will reign supreme.

[BOSCO]

Tanx guys,btw i don`t have either of these formats,just curious as to the differences.I`ll look forward to Bulls putting on a little test betwen the 2for me;) :stick:

[Spatial.Archite]

Personally, I hope that one format wins before long or both formats will end up failing. When they're compared to regular DVDs the sales of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD barely even register.

Despite all that, DVD sales are faltering and movie studios are looking for something to jump-start sales. The problem is that both formats could be considered premature; the vast majority of the population does not have an HD TV, and even fewer have a 1080p set capable of fully taking advantage of the HD formats. On top of all of that you have the format war which alienates many consumers until one format's decided upon.

I still don't know if downloadable HD content will ever hit the masses. A large portion of the movie buying public doesn't want the complications that come with downloading and managing files that size, and people enjoy the security of having a physical backup in case something happens. Downloadable HD content also isn't truly "HD" since it only streams the video at 1.3 mbs, so it's not going to catch on with videophiles either.

A far more likely solution is that someone's going to realize that standard dual-layered DVDs are fully capable of HD content. Standard DVDs that play the video at 720p would look considerably better than standard DVDs, players could be introduced around $100 (many DVD players could possibly just have their firmware updated), and would appear as major step up to most people. Most movies would fit on a single disc, and extras can easily be tacked onto another disc (which would barely increase cost as standard DVDs are extremely cheap to produce).

It's not the option I want to happen as it's an inferior format, but I can see it happening in the long-term. It'd be an extremely cheap HD solution, consumers would love it, the video quality would be much better than most are used to, and studios are going to start looking for something else to push sales if HD-DVD or Blu-Ray don't start delivering.

[Freon]

The same can be said for any format or any product for that matter.

Yep, I know it applies to me. If there's 2 titles on a shelf... one I really want and one I'm "meh" about I may as well just get it if it's going to be free instead of leaving it there.

[Freon]

I was surprised also. The format war gets more interesting by the day. It also gets more pathetic too. I wish one of these 2 camps would just win already. I jumped into the Hi def format and chose HD-DVD but I'm not going crazy buying up movies until theres a clear winner. I'm only buying movies I really like and no-brainers like Matrix and Transformers. I didn't pay much for my player and even if the HD camp loses I still have a kick ass up-converting DVD player and I can still enjoy the HD movies I already bought.

I'd also like to see an end to it. I do own 2 players now, a D1 and an A20 which I just got (love it! :buttrock:)However I don't even buy DVD's anymore and buy whatever HD DVD titles I want, and rent whatever is exclusive to Blu-ray which hasn't been much. If Blu-ray wins I'll keep all my HD DVD's and buy a dual player (I don't think that will happen but still). I've thought about getting a PS3 and going neutral but I'm still trying to catch up with all the HD DVD's I want to own. Maybe after that I will.

[galactus]

What are the REAL differences between the two? To the average consumer who has a decent, but not the best of the best, HI-DEF tv and surround sound set up, is there really going to be a noticable difference between the two formats?

[Trilogy]

Audio quality is the biggest difference between the two formats.

[Freon]

What are the REAL differences between the two? To the average consumer who has a decent, but not the best of the best, HI-DEF tv and surround sound set up, is there really going to be a noticable difference between the two formats?

One is in a blue case and one is in a red? :D

[Trilogy]

One is in a blue case and one is in a red? :D

:laugh:

[snappahead]

One is in a blue case and one is in a red? :D

That's about it actually LOL.

[IronFist]

I just got back from Best Buy as I was considering jumping on to one of the formats. One HUGE difference I noticed: BD has about 4x as many releases available as HD.

[snappahead]

I just got back from Best Buy as I was considering jumping on to one of the formats. One HUGE difference I noticed: BD has about 4x as many releases available as HD.

I could be wrong, but I think that's just at Best Buy. I believe there's way more hd dvd and BD out there, but alot of stores are slow to carry them.

[Bullseye]

thats not the case snappa. Do more research.

[snappahead]

thats not the case snappa. Do more research.

Nah, that sounds really boring. Please school me.

[Bullseye]

Schools out for the weekend. Heading out now. But i will see if i can get an extensive list for you. There are about the same amount of titles if not a little more of BD taking into account region B releases. For example The Rock, Con Air and a number of other Disney titles are already available here as region free titles.

[Trilogy]

Blu-ray has certainly been knocking out the releases lately.

[snappahead]

Schools out for the weekend. Heading out now. But i will see if i can get an extensive list for you. There are about the same amount of titles if not a little more of BD taking into account region B releases. For example The Rock, Con Air and a number of other Disney titles are already available here as region free titles.

Lazy bum. Sony will be disappointed in you.

[Bullseye]

LOL. Sony are never disappointed in me. Check out the new game details i posted in the gamers section.

[snappahead]

LOL. Sony are never disappointed in me. Check out the new game details i posted in the gamers section.

That's true. You're definitely doing a good job. Especially considering you're not even a gamer. Yet.

[Bullseye]

I'm too old to be a gamer now. When i played games it was pac-man and space invaders lol.

[Trilogy]

I'm too old to be a gamer now. When i played games it was pac-man and space invaders lol.

Those were the days.

[noseeb13]

PCM does not always equal better and just because audio is not lossless does not mean it can't sound great. It depends on how well it was put together. You really have to take it on a case by case basis.

Also I read a few weeks ago that HD DVD had more releases now than Blu Ray, so the comment earlier that Blu Ray has more may not be correct unless they released a bunch more titles since the Paramount shift.

Just buy the format that has the movies you want.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/Commentary:_Specs_vs._Reality/1096

"Anyone who's spent time browsing home theater discussion forums has suffered through an endless string of debates about how the HD DVD format "sucks" because its discs can only store 30 gb of content, while Blu-ray discs can store up to 50 gb, and therefore must be amazingly superior. Never mind that HD DVD has time and again proven capable of delivering exceptional picture and sound quality, plus copious bonus material, easily equaling even the best available on Blu-ray. At the same time, there are others who point to the occasional Blu-ray encoded with MPEG-2 compression as being "unacceptable", even though MPEG-2 can certainly achieve excellent results when given enough room to breathe (witness 'Black Hawk Down'). To some people, the actual quality presented to them is irrelevant if they don't like the sound of the specs on paper.

This "specs above all else" mentality has reared its ugly head again recently with the release of 'Transformers' on HD DVD, a title that delivers stunning video and audio, as well as a number of innovative interactive features. What could possibly be the problem here? Well, the soundtrack is only encoded in Dolby Digital Plus format, not a lossless codec such as Dolby TrueHD or an uncompressed one like PCM. In his review of the disc for this site, our Peter Bracke gave the DD+ track a perfect "5" for audio quality and said of it that, "Directionality, imaging, accuracy of localized effects, and the sheer depth of the soundfield are all fantastic stuff." Nonetheless, in the minds of many, this disc is a huge failure, and its soundtrack a pathetic disgrace for not including a TrueHD or PCM option.

I should mention at this point that at least one working Hollywood sound mixer has voiced his opinion that, when played back on his professional dubbing stage, well-mastered Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks encoded at the high 1509 kb/s bit rate that Paramount uses can be audibly transparent to the studio masters, when tested on movies that he mixed himself and would presumably know better than anyone else. But what use is the informed opinion of an expert in the field when it's easier to just point to the specs list on the back of a disc's packaging to make conclusive statements about matters of quality? In the forum on this site, a number of readers have made proclamations such as, "Compressed audio is just not acceptable these days" and "Whether you can tell the difference or not is irrelevant."
The disc's audio being indistinguishable from its studio master is "irrelevant"?

Even with just a Dolby Digital Plus track, the 'Transformers' disc rated the highest score for audio quality that we can give. What more could we demand from it? It's absolutely terrific, but it's just not absolutely terrific enough if the packaging doesn't have a listing for TrueHD or PCM, even when it's likely impossible for human ears to tell the difference? What kind of argument is that?

[snappahead]

Interesting post, Noseeb. The link was interesting too. It seemed pretty straight to me, but I loved all the anger being aimed at him for this. I can't figure out what they're mad about. I guess they've got him pegged as a "hd-dvd fanboy", so anything he says must be biased. Gotta love that logic. I've been saying this all along. It's BS. Video and sound..people would fail blind taste tests. Guaranteed, but they do love their numbers and stats.

[DSET]

Just buy the format that has the movies you want.Nuff said

To be honest i could care less about the sound differences

Video is the exact same thing

It’s all about the movies that you want.
And if you look at the lists there’s not much smashing exclusivity besides shrek\bourne 3 that looks big on HD IMO.
Hopefully HD locks up gladiator soon, gets Scarface out soon.
Face off is coming this week :D

Minus the Spielberg paramount movies which will be multi format

An exclusive massive series like Harry potter\ LOTR\ Star wars\ Indiana
could end the war.
But all those titles are set to be multi format as of now.

Spidey is a big knocker we will see what it does, I was surprised to see that pirates didn’t do amazingly well, it’s possible that no1 cares about movies that are already out on DVD.
I don’t know why? To me its all about seeing the most picture-ess movies in high def and pirates 1 stands out as one of the best titles to own in high def to me. Troy\ Last samurai\ Spidey 2\Batman begins\King Kong are the type of flicks I love to see in high def. Also 3d movies open season Ice age looks phenomenal, even old movies like Enter the dragon look better than DVD, close up scenes are almost on par with what’s being filmed today.

But I don’t think anything will do what LOTR or especially star wars will do for the high def format, most of die hard LOTR fans and star wars fans WILL upgrade to high def as soon as they hear the launch of these movies, and there’s a TON of em. If spidey 3 was an amazing movie I think you would see some of that now but since mosts didn’t enjoy it the spidey name is being kind of crapped on right now.

However if it’s all about money for you I have to say: 200 for an hddvd player is damn good!
But 400 for a bd and ps3 IMHO is even better.:thumbs2: :thumbs2:

That call is up to you, the price difference equals about 6 movies to upgrade to BD plus u get a gaming\ nearing media center: PS3
You can’t go wrong either way
Also the 200$ hddvd player is not all that great but for 200bucks I don’t think many expect it to be:thumbs2:

[Trilogy]

PCM does not always equal better and just because audio is not lossless does not mean it can't sound great. It depends on how well it was put together. You really have to take it on a case by case basis.

Also I read a few weeks ago that HD DVD had more releases now than Blu Ray, so the comment earlier that Blu Ray has more may not be correct unless they released a bunch more titles since the Paramount shift.

Just buy the format that has the movies you want.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/Commentary:_Specs_vs._Reality/1096

"Anyone who's spent time browsing home theater discussion forums has suffered through an endless string of debates about how the HD DVD format "sucks" because its discs can only store 30 gb of content, while Blu-ray discs can store up to 50 gb, and therefore must be amazingly superior. Never mind that HD DVD has time and again proven capable of delivering exceptional picture and sound quality, plus copious bonus material, easily equaling even the best available on Blu-ray. At the same time, there are others who point to the occasional Blu-ray encoded with MPEG-2 compression as being "unacceptable", even though MPEG-2 can certainly achieve excellent results when given enough room to breathe (witness 'Black Hawk Down'). To some people, the actual quality presented to them is irrelevant if they don't like the sound of the specs on paper.

This "specs above all else" mentality has reared its ugly head again recently with the release of 'Transformers' on HD DVD, a title that delivers stunning video and audio, as well as a number of innovative interactive features. What could possibly be the problem here? Well, the soundtrack is only encoded in Dolby Digital Plus format, not a lossless codec such as Dolby TrueHD or an uncompressed one like PCM. In his review of the disc for this site, our Peter Bracke gave the DD+ track a perfect "5" for audio quality and said of it that, "Directionality, imaging, accuracy of localized effects, and the sheer depth of the soundfield are all fantastic stuff." Nonetheless, in the minds of many, this disc is a huge failure, and its soundtrack a pathetic disgrace for not including a TrueHD or PCM option.

I should mention at this point that at least one working Hollywood sound mixer has voiced his opinion that, when played back on his professional dubbing stage, well-mastered Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks encoded at the high 1509 kb/s bit rate that Paramount uses can be audibly transparent to the studio masters, when tested on movies that he mixed himself and would presumably know better than anyone else. But what use is the informed opinion of an expert in the field when it's easier to just point to the specs list on the back of a disc's packaging to make conclusive statements about matters of quality? In the forum on this site, a number of readers have made proclamations such as, "Compressed audio is just not acceptable these days" and "Whether you can tell the difference or not is irrelevant."
The disc's audio being indistinguishable from its studio master is "irrelevant"?

Even with just a Dolby Digital Plus track, the 'Transformers' disc rated the highest score for audio quality that we can give. What more could we demand from it? It's absolutely terrific, but it's just not absolutely terrific enough if the packaging doesn't have a listing for TrueHD or PCM, even when it's likely impossible for human ears to tell the difference? What kind of argument is that?



I agree with everything you have said. Although I still stand by my decision not to by any HD titles that do not include HD audio. For me its a matter of principle. If the disc can store HD audio along side HD Visual, then why not include it?

I`m not buying any title and then re-purchasing that title because the studio has decided to upgrade the soundtrack.

Phantom of the Opera is a fine example. I have this title on standard DVD with a 1509 DTS audio track. The Blu-ray only has Dolby Digital which is dreadful in comparison. Now I`m thinking of purchasing the UK edition which includes a DTS-HD track. My way of thinking is why have a title with the best possible visuals and not the best possible audio.

For me any title that states Dolby True HD, DTS-HD MA or PCM on the back will get my vote. With these you at least know that your getting the best possible audio.

[Bullseye]

Video and sound..people would fail blind taste tests. Guaranteed, but they do love their numbers and stats.

I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that people who want superior sound have no taste? Or that we have untrained ears?

Nothing wrong with stats. They never lie if they are telling the truth.

[Bullseye]

Also I read a few weeks ago that HD DVD had more releases now than Blu Ray, so the comment earlier that Blu Ray has more may not be correct unless they released a bunch more titles since the Paramount shift.

As of 10-25-2007 (Including Pre-Orders) Based on Amazon.com data


HD-DVD: 427

Blu-Ray: 536



Even with just a Dolby Digital Plus track, the 'Transformers' disc rated the highest score for audio quality that we can give. What more could we demand from it? It's absolutely terrific, but it's just not absolutely terrific enough if the packaging doesn't have a listing for TrueHD or PCM, even when it's likely impossible for human ears to tell the difference? What kind of argument is that
.

Read my sig. The same reviewer asked the question why no PCM, answer lack of space, his reply he would like to have heard it to make up his own mind and then gives 5 stars. Hence i don't value his opinion on this issue of this disc.

[Trilogy]

Nothing wrong with stats. They never lie if they are telling the truth.

:laugh:

I know what you ment, but I found that funny. ;)

[Bullseye]

:laugh:

I know what you ment, but I found that funny. ;)

LOL. I guess you could read that either way :)

[noseeb13]

As of 10-25-2007 (Including Pre-Orders) Based on Amazon.com data


HD-DVD: 427

Blu-Ray: 536



How many without pre-orders? May comment referred to
titles that have been released.

[Natrix]

Read my sig. The same reviewer asked the question why no PCM, answer lack of space, his reply he would like to have heard it to make up his own mind and then gives 5 stars. Hence i don't value his opinion on this issue of this disc.

Once again you show your bias. You must not have even read the article because it's author is NOT the same person that reviewed Transformers HD DVD that you quoted in your signature as you claim. :stick:

If you can't get YOUR facts straight then you and others shouldn't value your opinions either. :thumbs2:

[snappahead]

I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that people who want superior sound have no taste? Or that we have untrained ears?

Nothing wrong with stats. They never lie if they are telling the truth.

Hehe..no, I wasn't saying that. I was referring to the article where he said that in a controlled environment, with the volume balanced, people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the different formats of sound and video.

The second thing you said is priceless:thumbs2:

[galactus]

Based on my experience with CDs, I would think that the format of the audio track is certainly important, but also the quality in which the track is laid out on the disk to begin with.

For instance, I would assume that the production quality, along with the source material, would be top notch for the new Star Wars films. But the sound levels of the actual CDs are so low that I need to turn up the volume on my stereo higher than usual to get the same sound level as a lot of other CDs that I have.

For this reason, I don't think the format itself can be the only determining factor. You may get a few movies that sound better in one format and a few that sound better in others based on how they were put together, not on how the sound is techincally encoded on the disc.

[snappahead]

Based on my experience with CDs, I would think that the format of the audio track is certainly important, but also the quality in which the track is laid out on the disk to begin with.

For instance, I would assume that the production quality, along with the source material, would be top notch for the new Star Wars films. But the sound levels of the actual CDs are so low that I need to turn up the volume on my stereo higher than usual to get the same sound level as a lot of other CDs that I have.

For this reason, I don't think the format itself can be the only determining factor. You may get a few movies that sound better in one format and a few that sound better in others based on how they were put together, not on how the sound is techincally encoded on the disc.

Exactly. That's what that guys rant was trying to say. Nothing more, nothing less. It's basically saying don't judge a book by it's cover. Sounds reasonable to me.

[Red X]

I don't understand why both can't live happily with each other?

And why all companies can't back both...Obviously gaming plays big into the format war with microsoft backers buying HD DVD and Sony buying Blu-ray.

Now why the big movie companies can't make movies like Transformers and Spider-Man across both is beyond me, they would sell twice as many and make more money and movie buffs could grab their fav movies in HD without constraint.

[Jesse321]

I don't understand why both can't live happily with each other?

And why all companies can't back both...Obviously gaming plays big into the format war with microsoft backers buying HD DVD and Sony buying Blu-ray.

Now why the big movie companies can't make movies like Transformers and Spider-Man across both is beyond me, they would sell twice as many and make more money and movie buffs could grab their fav movies in HD without constraint.
When have you ever known that to happen with just about anything? There always has to be a winner and a loser

VHS - Beta
Vinyl - Cassette
Cassette - CD
CD - Mini CD
TIVO - DVR
McDonalds - Burger King - Wendy's - Sonic
Analog - Plasma
Cable -Direct TV
Sirus - XM
Fruit Loops - Corn Flakes

Everything is always about the competition.

What actually needs to happen is to have one company devise a player that plays both formats, sort of like the old VHS DVD players ... but we both know that's never going to happen.

[Zurbaran1]

What actually needs to happen is to have one company devise a player that plays both formats, sort of like the old VHS DVD players ... but we both know that's never going to happen.

Sorry but never already happened. One player on the market right now plays both formats. It is from LG.

[DSET]

Sorry but never already happened. One player on the market right now plays both formats. It is from LG.

its true
both formats could possibly live forever

the companies might come out and agree to mass producing cheaper multi format players

[snappahead]

Man, I wish I could believe that, but companies have too much riding on the success of one format I think. I mean, Sony's been releasing a new format every couple years in the hopes that they'll own the one format that everyone uses. There's just too much money to be made if they ever succeed. Sharing isn't in big business vocabulary...unless it somehow means more money for them all. In this case, I don't think that's true.

[Trilogy]

I can see both formats being around for a very long time, if not indefinitely.

When has there been any other new rivaling formats that have had hardware that can utilise both.

[Bullseye]

Once again you show your bias. You must not have even read the article because it's author is NOT the same person that reviewed Transformers HD DVD that you quoted in your signature as you claim. :stick:

If you can't get YOUR facts straight then you and others shouldn't value your opinions either. :thumbs2:

Sorry if you misunderstood my earlier post. I was referring to the reviewer of the Transformers HD-DVD not the author of the article, but the reviewer is mentioned in the article. I am openly pro-blu ray.:thumbs2: So why do you keep bringing it up. Why don't you tell me who you hope wins, i bet i know the answer.

[Bullseye]

Sorry but never already happened. One player on the market right now plays both formats. It is from LG.

I think Samsung have a duel player or are releasing one.

[Trilogy]

I am openly pro-blu ray.:thumbs2:...

Go Blu-ray!! :buttrock: lol

[Trilogy]

I think Samsung have a duel player or are releasing one.

Yes Samsung are producing a duel player.

[snappahead]

Go Blu-ray!! :buttrock: lol

Only a movie lover eh? I was right about you all along:sly2:

[Trilogy]

Only a movie lover eh? I was right about you all along:sly2:

:laugh:

I was just fooling with B. ;)

[DSET]

Man, I wish I could believe that, but companies have too much riding on the success of one format I think. I mean, Sony's been releasing a new format every couple years in the hopes that they'll own the one format that everyone uses. There's just too much money to be made if they ever succeed. Sharing isn't in big business vocabulary...unless it somehow means more money for them all. In this case, I don't think that's true.

well maybe itl be something like both parties push for a cheaper multi format player from a company like LG\samsung\Panasonic etc, and that will in a way end the possibility of a format dying in the near future. Which will allow many people to take the dive into high def.

I can see both formats being around for a very long time, if not indefinitely.

When has there been any other new rivaling formats that have had hardware that can utilise both.

Exactly its kind of a rare situation this time around, if they release a cheaper multiformat player, Its just gonna be which exclusive movies sell more copies. Even more so than it is right now.

[snappahead]

:laugh:

I was just fooling with B. ;)

Who're you tryin to kid!?

I agree Dset..I'd love to see that happen. Eventually one format will win either way, but at least this way, you wouldn't be forced (money issue)to support one or the other.

[Natrix]

Sorry if you misunderstood my earlier post. I was referring to the reviewer of the Transformers HD-DVD not the author of the article, but the reviewer is mentioned in the article. I am openly pro-blu ray.:thumbs2: So why do you keep bringing it up. Why don't you tell me who you hope wins, i bet i know the answer.

You quoted the article about the audio formats and said that the same person also wrote the review for Transformers that is in your signature so you couldn't take the information in the article seriously, which was wrong. I don't think I misunderstood that.

I honestly don't care who "wins" the war, hell look who started this Blu Ray thread before you jumped in....huh it was me. Being neutral, I have access to any of the movies that come out that I want in a HD format that either way is much superior to DVD's. I know you keep harping on the "lack" of PCM/HD audio on some HD-DVD's and stated that is why you don't support them but you go and support the Blu Ray movies that also don't have that PCM/HD audio you need. All I can say is Transformers in even "only" DD+ still can rock the walls and unless someone told me is wasn't lossless I wouldn't know the difference. Honestly, I don't care because it is that good. It is still such a huge step up from DVD audio with the channel and sound clarity. Of course, you wouldn't know that because that would be beneath you to sit down and watch/listen to it. If you would read up on the audio codecs, the tracks don't have to be PCM to be awesome to listen to. I don't care for Blu Ray supporters that can only spout the bigger is better rhetoric and complain about the audio which they haven't heard.

I keep pointing you out as you are the most vocal of the Blu Ray fanboys and take this too seriously so it is fun to get your feathers ruffled. :thumbs2:

No hard feelings.

Also, I currently have 26 Blu Ray (soon to be 29 with the Spider-Man boxset this week) compared to 45 HD DVD's just because of the selections of titles that are coming out for the formats, so go ahead and call be an HD-DVD fanboy. :)

[Red X]

Well I only own a PS3, so that right there makes me an Blu-ray supporter.

The movies look far more crisper and clearer than the DVD counterparts, it's kinda hard to go back and watch anything that isn't in HD anymore.

You don't realize how much better it looks until you pop in a DVD and the thing's picture is so fuzzy, unclear, or the colors are washed out.

I'd like Blu-ray to win the so called war since that's obviously what I buy, but thaty would suck for alot of HD DVD supporters. But I don't see either company giving up in the near future.

I'm happy as long as I can watch the movies I have and want in HD. Cannot wait for SM3 on tuesday!

[Trilogy]

Who're you tryin to kid!?

:laugh: :thumbs2:

[Trilogy]

Well I only own a PS3, so that right there makes me an Blu-ray supporter.

The movies look far more crisper and clearer than the DVD counterparts, it's kinda hard to go back and watch anything that isn't in HD anymore.

You don't realize how much better it looks until you pop in a DVD and the thing's picture is so fuzzy, unclear, or the colors are washed out.

I'd like Blu-ray to win the so called war since that's obviously what I buy, but thaty would suck for alot of HD DVD supporters. But I don't see either company giving up in the near future.

I'm happy as long as I can watch the movies I have and want in HD. Cannot wait for SM3 on tuesday!

Another corrupted by HD. :laugh:

I know exactly what you mean. Even movies that looked "WOW" on DVD just don`t have the same quality once you`ve viewed HD. It really is hard trying to watch anything on DVD.

[snappahead]

Well I only own a PS3, so that right there makes me an Blu-ray supporter.

The movies look far more crisper and clearer than the DVD counterparts, it's kinda hard to go back and watch anything that isn't in HD anymore.

You don't realize how much better it looks until you pop in a DVD and the thing's picture is so fuzzy, unclear, or the colors are washed out.

I'd like Blu-ray to win the so called war since that's obviously what I buy, but thaty would suck for alot of HD DVD supporters. But I don't see either company giving up in the near future.

I'm happy as long as I can watch the movies I have and want in HD. Cannot wait for SM3 on tuesday!

I've never seen a dvd that looked as bad as what you're describing. Might need to get your tv checked.

[Trilogy]

I've never seen a dvd that looked as bad as what you're describing. Might need to get your tv checked.

He is correct. Once you`ve been accustomed to HD, watching DVD is`nt the same. The colours do look washed out and the image looks a little blurry due to lack of detail and definition.

[snappahead]

He is correct. Once you`ve been accustomed to HD, watching DVD is`nt the same. The colours do look washed out and the image looks a little blurry due to lack of detail and definition.

If you say so, bro. I've got a bunch of HD channels and they do look great, but I've got no problems watching dvds. None of them look blurry or fuzzy or washed out...none of that. Just because something better comes along, doesn't suddenly make the previous product any less decent than it was before.

How does resolution ruin color? That's meant as an honest question, cause I don't know how that works. Dvds on my tv still look fantastic.

[Trilogy]

I`m not saying that it does make the previous format "less decent". It just changes your perception of the format. I was surprised myself after viewing HD how poor DVD looks in comparison. As I`ve said previously, even the best looking DVDs look very lackluster to me now.

As for the colour. Blu-ray and HD-DVD are not just about resolution. They are capable of reproducing more colours than DVD. Also at a higher resolution the colours will look far more vibrant and crisp than DVD can produce.

[Bullseye]

You quoted the article about the audio formats and said that the same person also wrote the review for Transformers that is in your signature so you couldn't take the information in the article seriously, which was wrong. I don't think I misunderstood that.

Well i meant the guy he was quoting. I should have been more specific. The article was an interesting read.

The Transformers reviewer was good up until he gave the audio 5 stars without hearing the possible PCM track for the film. What for example happens if the film is released in the future with PCM and it is better what score does he give it. If i were the reviewer i would have given it 4 or 4.5 stars to be on the safe side.

Believe me you can be neutral in buying both, but hope one side wins. I know alot of people who feel that way so don't be ashamed if you want to swallow the red pill (jking):)

[Bullseye]

If you say so, bro. I've got a bunch of HD channels and they do look great, but I've got no problems watching dvds. None of them look blurry or fuzzy or washed out...none of that. Just because something better comes along, doesn't suddenly make the previous product any less decent than it was before.

How does resolution ruin color? That's meant as an honest question, cause I don't know how that works. Dvds on my tv still look fantastic.

Snappa in all honesty if you cannot see an improvement in HD movies over SDs then you shouldn't buy them.

[BOSCO]

http://bestsmileys.com/signs13/10.gif:D :eplus2:

[Trilogy]

http://bestsmileys.com/signs13/10.gif:D :eplus2:

Ain`t that the truth!

[The General]

I always find it amusing when zombies don’t read the full text.



So no credit for the BDA to counter the sales of HD-DVDs biggest seller. I give Toshiba credit for bribing Paramount and Dreamworks.;)


Ah so what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

You have got to be kidding me Bulls..:mad: Find me one post in the first 13 that somebody said that the only reason Blu Ray won was because of the BOGO sale. Seriously Bulls.

[MiamiLoco]

When Bullseye mentions HD-DVD Borgs, he isn't only talking about people on THIS board ;)

[Jesse321]

Sorry but never already happened. One player on the market right now plays both formats. It is from LG.
I don't know too much about the quality level of LG products (I know their TV's have a decent picture), but if it plays both formats, then that's the player to get IMO. :thumbs2:

[MiamiLoco]

I don't know too much about the quality level of LG products (I know their TV's have a decent picture), but if it plays both formats, then that's the player to get IMO. :thumbs2:
But how is that going to help END this war?!!

[Trilogy]

Does the "war" really need to end. The more duel players that become available the more likely both formats will survive. If you have a duel player, all that's left is for you as a consumer to choose which format you want to buy a specific title on.

[MiamiLoco]

Does the "war" really need to end. The more duel players that become available the more likely both formats will survive. If you have a duel player, all that's left is for you as a consumer to choose which format you want to buy a specific title on.
Yeah, but that punishes consumers that actually decided to pick a side.

[Bullseye]

You have got to be kidding me Bulls..:mad: Find me one post in the first 13 that somebody said that the only reason Blu Ray won was because of the BOGO sale. Seriously Bulls.

Read post no. 3. I've said that the BOGO sales helped BD win this weeks figures.:confused:

[Jesse321]

But how is that going to help END this war?!!
It's not, it just assures that whoever the winner is, the consumer (namely me) is covered.

[MiamiLoco]

It's not, it just assures that whoever the winner is, the consumer (namely me) is covered.
But if all consumers end up buying a dual player, how is there GOING to be a winner?!

[Jesse321]

But if all consumers end up buying a dual player, how is there GOING to be a winner?!
There is a winner, THE CONSUMER is the winner ... for once! :buttrock:

[MiamiLoco]

There is a winner, THE CONSUMER is the winner ... for once! :buttrock:
Not if they actually decided to support a side in the beginning and NOT wait for a dual player. What's wrong with picking a side?!

[Trilogy]

Yeah, but that punishes consumers that actually decided to pick a side.

Not really.

[Trilogy]

But if all consumers end up buying a dual player, how is there GOING to be a winner?!

That is the whole point. If duel players become the norm, there will not be a winner. More consumers will become HD and purchase duel players and buy titles on both formats.

[Trilogy]

Not if they actually decided to support a side in the beginning and NOT wait for a dual player. What's wrong with picking a side?!

Unfortunately that is the down side of being an early adaptor of any format.

[Jesse321]

Not if they actually decided to support a side in the beginning and NOT wait for a dual player. What's wrong with picking a side?!
There's nothing wrong with "picking a side" just so long as you're aware that you might have picked the "wrong side" and are prepared to pay the consequences of your choice.

Technology progresses by leaps and bounds in a matter of months these days, just look at the recent situation with the I-Phone as an example ... this should come as a surprise to no one by now. Right now the smartest consumer is the one that waits and lets the air clear before jumping in on any "new gadgets" till all the bugs are worked out of them.

[MiamiLoco]

There's nothing wrong with "picking a side" just so long as you're aware that you might have picked the "wrong side" and are prepare to pay the consequences of your choice.

Technology progresses by leaps and bounds in a matter of months these days, just look at the recent situation with the I-Phone as an example ... this should come as a surprise to no one by now. Right now the smartest consumer is the one that waits and lets the air clear before jumping in on any "new gadgets" till all the bugs are worked out of them.
Wait wait, don't tell me that you are comparing waiting for the bugs to be worked out to choosing a side in a format war?!! really?!

[cougartrace]

Wait wait, don't tell me that you are comparing waiting for the bugs to be worked out to choosing a side in a format war?!! really?!

Maybe he is waiting so he's not the ultimate tool of the companies in the heart of the format war.

For too long consumers pay the price for this crap.

[MiamiLoco]

Maybe he is waiting so he's not the ultimate tool of the companies in the heart of the format war.

For too long consumers pay the price for this crap.
What does your comment have anything to do with what I asked?! That's for playing anyways ;)

[Trilogy]

Maybe he is waiting so he's not the ultimate tool of the companies in the heart of the format war.

For too long consumers pay the price for this crap.

I think you`ve made your point several times over. Yes the consumer is a pawn in the retail world. That will never change. ;)

[Jesse321]

Wait wait, don't tell me that you are comparing waiting for the bugs to be worked out to choosing a side in a format war?!! really?!
Format war, bug war ... same difference to me .. the end result is the consumer gettin screwed like always!

And for the record Cougar is right, I haven't picked a side BECAUSE I didn't want to pick the wrong one and then get shafted and be forced to by yet another new machine in order to get my high def fix .. add to that all the movies I would have bought in the wrong format that I would have to replace once the original player which likely wouldn't be made anymore clunks out as all electronics always do!

It seems to me Javi, that you've made your "choice" in this "war" and your running scared that you might not have made the right one .. you know I love ya bro .. but tough titties!

[Jesse321]

I think you`ve made your point several times over. Yes the consumer is a pawn in the retail world. That will never change. ;)
No it will never change, that's why consumers have to be smarter than the retailers.

Any consumer that jumps on the latest "gadget du jour" just for bragging rights, ESPECIALLY knowing there's a format war raging, just isn't too smart IMO.

And that's not meant as a diss, it's an honest observation.

[MiamiLoco]

Format war, bug war ... same difference to me .. the end result is the consumer gettin screwed like always!

And for the record Cougar is right, I haven't picked a side BECAUSE I didn't want to pick the wrong one and then get shafted and be forced to by yet another new machine in order to get my high def fix!

It seems to me Javi, that you've made your "choice" in this "war" and your running scared that you might not have made the right one .. you know I love ya bro .. but tough titties!
Running scared? Nope, I am supporting it. And I'm proud that I picked a side and I am supporting it, not waiting it out ;)

[Jesse321]

Running scared? Nope, I am supporting it. And I'm proud that I picked a side and I am supporting it, not waiting it out ;)
Well I hope for your (and your wallet's) sake, you picked the right side.

Me I'll either continue to wait it out (the prices on players are already dropping a about 100 bucks a month) or elect to get one of the dual players coming out. :thumbs2:

Either way, I'm in no hurry. :)

[Trilogy]

No it will never change, that's why consumers have to be smarter than the retailers.

Any consumer that jumps on the latest "gadget du jour" just for bragging rights, EXPECIALLY knowing there's a format war raging, just isn't too smart IMO.

And that's not meant as a diss, it's an honest observation.

Why assume that people jump on new technology purely for "bragging rights".

Personally I went HD to get the best out of Home cinema. Unfortunately yes there is a format war and I was obviously aware of that. I made my decision which format to purchase purely on what titles were available and also audio/ visual capabilities. If the format that I currently use fails, so be it. I`ll just move on to the next format.

[Trilogy]

Well I hope for your (and your wallet's) sake, you picked the right side.

Me I'll either continue to wait it out (the prices on players are already dropping a about 100 bucks a month) or elect to get one of the dual players coming out. :thumbs2:

A duel player is definitely the way to go. I`m sure if they were available when I made the plunge, I would have probably gone that route.

[Jesse321]

Why assume that people jump on new technology purely for "bragging rights".
Technology like fashion (the industry I work in) is almost always (though not 100% exclusively) about bragging rights, everyone wants to be the first to wear the hot new designer, drive the hottest new car, flash the hottest new phone ... etc. etc. ... the game isn't "Keeping up with the Jone's" anymore ... it's "BEAT THE JONE'S" now.

People have to start realizing that sometimes the easiest way to win is not to race, especially in this economy. I think that consumers also need to realize the real definition of obsolete ... for example ... I might not have the most up to date computer on the planet, but my computer gets me on the internet, handles my finances, prints my letters, spreadsheets ... basically it does everything I need it to do. So, long as that's the case, I don't need a new computer. Same with my car, same with my DVD player ... especially when you consider that very few movies are filmed in TRUE digital.


Personally I went HD to get the best out of Home cinema. Unfortunately yes there is a format war and I was obviously aware of that. I made my decision which format to purchase purely on what titles were available and also audio/ visual capabilities. If the format that I currently use fails, so be it. I`ll just move on to the next format.
And I TOTALLY respect that, you made an informed decision based on parameters that you set .. and you're fully prepared to to deal with the consequences of your choice should it prove to be the wrong one ... I got no problems with that ... I just don't want to invest the time, money and aggravation on picking the wrong side and losing out on a bunch of VERY hard earned cash, I would just rather wait it out and see who comes out on top.

[Bullseye]

The thing for everybody to remember is that if they have purchased hardware to play these hi-def discs they will still work. My 100+ BD movies and 40+ HD-DVD movies are still going to work long after this format war is over which might not happen for a long time.

[Trilogy]

And I TOTALLY respect that, you made an informed decision based on parameters that you set .. and you're fully prepared to to deal with the consequences of your choice should it prove to be the wrong one ... I got no problems with that ... I just don't want to invest the time, money and aggravation on picking the wrong side and losing out on a bunch of VERY hard earned cash, I would just rather wait it out and see who comes out on top.

I understand why many like yourself are holding off. Personally I don`t see any money wasted. If eventually the format that I`ve chosen becomes the defeated format. Then I`ll just switch over to the other and will no doubt still be able to utilise the titles that I already own.

As for players, its not really a concern. The Hi-Fi and AV world moves at such a pace as does all technology (as you`ve previously mentioned) that changing the player would be just like upgrading when necessary.

[Trilogy]

The thing for everybody to remember is that if they have purchased hardware to play these hi-def discs they will still work. My 100+ BD movies and 40+ HD-DVD movies are still going to work long after this format war is over which might not happen for a long time.

Yes its not as if your player becomes unusable once the format becomes obsolete. I think with the fact that duel players are becoming more available there is even less concern with regards this.

[Natrix]

The thing for everybody to remember is that if they have purchased hardware to play these hi-def discs they will still work. My 100+ BD movies and 40+ HD-DVD movies are still going to work long after this format war is over which might not happen for a long time.

WOW...we agree on something for once! :buttrock:

I don't see another/standard format for HD coming along for years, so it will be one or both of the current formats for the foreseeable future.

[noseeb13]

don't be ashamed if you want to swallow the red pill (jking):)
You should send that in as a promotion slogan for the Blu Ray release of the Matrix.
"Take the Blu pill"

[MiamiLoco]

You should send that in as a promotion slogan for the Blu Ray release of the Matrix.
"Take the Blu pill"
Wow, that's HILARIOUS!!! It only gets FUNNIER the more I read it online in multiple message boards!!! I applaud you sir!!

[Trilogy]

Wow, that's HILARIOUS!!! It only gets FUNNIER the more I read it online in multiple message boards!!! I applaud you sir!!

Is that sarcasm I detect. :peoples: :laugh:

[MiamiLoco]

http://www.simpsonscollectors.com/images/smilies/detect.gif

[The General]

Read post no. 3. I've said that the BOGO sales helped BD win this weeks figures.:confused:

Okay HD-DVD zombie.:thumbs2:

You said it helped - not that it's the only reason they won.
:stick:

[Bullseye]

I said "no doubt it helped":)

[noseeb13]

Wow, that's HILARIOUS!!! It only gets FUNNIER the more I read it online in multiple message boards!!! I applaud you sir!!

Excuse me, I had never read that before, I live a sheltered life :bawling:

[snappahead]

Excuse me, I had never read that before, I live a sheltered life :bawling:

Don't mind Loco..I think he took the whole bottle.

[Trilogy]

Don't mind Loco..I think he took the whole bottle.

:laugh:

[MiamiLoco]

Don't mind Loco..I think he took the whole bottle.
Wow, really? U are going that route?! I think You and noseeb13 should team up and be the funniest anti blu-ray writing team, keep it up guys ;)

[snappahead]

Wow, really? U are going that route?! I think You and noseeb13 should team up and be the funniest anti blu-ray writing team, keep it up guys ;)

Man, you're easy! It takes WAY more to piss Bulls off. You could learn a thing or two from him.

[MiamiLoco]

Man, you're easy! It takes WAY more to piss Bulls off. You could learn a thing or two from him.
Haha, how can I be pissed if I'm laughing AT you? LOL :p

[Bullseye]

Its all in good fun guys. Lets try and not make these debates personal.

I for one will not take any great pleasure in seeing people pissed of because their format looses. That goes for both sides.

Its just sad that Toshiba and Sony could not have gotten together at the begining to iron out their differences.

[snappahead]

Its all in good fun guys. Lets try and not make these debates personal.

I for one will not take any great pleasure in seeing people pissed of because their format looses. That goes for both sides.

Its just sad that Toshiba and Sony could not have gotten together at the begining to iron out their differences.

He started it! Actually, I did, but I still think it's his fault.

Loco..what exactly are you laughing AT me about?

[MiamiLoco]

He started it! Actually, I did, but I still think it's his fault.

Loco..what exactly are you laughing AT me about?
How funny u are ;)

[snappahead]

How funny u are ;)

Damn it..the sarcasm is so thick on these boards I can't tell who's using it and who isn't these days. Now, I don't know if I should be offended or flattered by that comment. I'll assume it's an insult and I'll think of something to zets you with later.

[MiamiLoco]

Damn it..the sarcasm is so thick on these boards I can't tell who's using it and who isn't these days. Now, I don't know if I should be offended or flattered by that comment. I'll assume it's an insult and I'll think of something to zets you with later.
Here, this might help:
http://www.simpsonscollectors.com/images/smilies/detect.gif

[snappahead]

Here, this might help:
http://www.simpsonscollectors.com/images/smilies/detect.gif

That's what I thought...let me work on a comeback and get back to you.

[rico1701]

I finally bought a new awesome Sony HD TV 60" in early September and a HD-DVD player by Toshiba. I love the TV. Just love watching HD TV via my HD-TIVO. Amazing picture. Currently I have only 2 HD-DVD's. I have found that upscaled DVD's look extremely nice. I have a very extensive DVD collection already and won't be replacing much of it.

I do expect to own a Blu-Ray player of some type eventually. Just because I don't want to miss out on certain Blu-Ray titles.

Personally I think both formats will continue to exist. There are multiple gaming formats and consoles, why not two media formats for home video? Yes, everyone points to VHS vs. Beta, but that's not a valid comparison. As long as players continue to get less expensive and we eventually get cheap dual format players then both types of media can co-exist. Sure one might eventually hold most of the market, but I doubt either is going away completely anytime soon.

[Trilogy]

Personally I think both formats will continue to exist. There are multiple gaming formats and consoles, why not two media formats for home video? Yes, everyone points to VHS vs. Beta, but that's not a valid comparison. As long as players continue to get less expensive and we eventually get cheap dual format players then both types of media can co-exist. Sure one might eventually hold most of the market, but I doubt either is going away completely anytime soon.

I agree and have been saying the same. I can`t see either format disappearing anytime soon.

[noseeb13]

I finally bought a new awesome Sony HD TV 60" in early September and a HD-DVD player by Toshiba.

Careful the Sony gang will smite you for having a Sony Tv and not having a Blu Ray player. :thumbs2:

I think you are right, with the competing video game formats the co-exist and if you really look at it CDs vs MP3s at the moment, all of them are still going.

I think what will probably happen soon is HD DVD will start really pushing bonus content more for duel releases so the choice would come down to do you want 6 different audio tracks on Blu Ray or do you want 3 and a group of high def extras. So at that point it comes down more to do you want to buy this game on the 360 for online support and downloadable content or on the PS3 because it has an exclusive character and PCM audio.

[Trilogy]

The "Sony gang". :confused: :laugh:

[Trilogy]

I think what will probably happen soon is HD DVD will start really pushing bonus content more for duel releases so the choice would come down to do you want 6 different audio tracks on Blu Ray or do you want 3 and a group of high def extras. So at that point it comes down more to do you want to buy this game on the 360 for online support and downloadable content or on the PS3 because it has an exclusive character and PCM audio.


Do PS3 games come with PCM audio or is that just more sarcasm to add to the thread.

[snappahead]

Do PS3 games come with PCM audio or is that just more sarcasm to add to the thread.

Man, you've got a love jones for PCM! Either you've got bat-hearing or I'm missing out on the greatest invention in the history of man. LOL

[Trilogy]

Man, you've got a love jones for PCM! Either you've got bat-hearing or I'm missing out on the greatest invention in the history of man. LOL

I`m not a gamer and never have been, so I was asking out of interest. As there is so much sarcasm flying these days I wasn`t sure if he was being serious.

However if you are a movie enthusiast, yes PCM is great. :thumbs2:

[noseeb13]

Do PS3 games come with PCM audio or is that just more sarcasm to add to the thread.

No sarcasm, my receiver displays PCM audio, but I guess that is because I have it coming from the HDMI cable. Looking at the release specs for Ratchet and Clank they do use Dolby Digital.

Okay so honestly then why would you buy a game on the PS3 if you have an Xbox 360? J/K
So substitute PCM audio for motion control support. Hows that?

[Trilogy]

No sarcasm, my receiver displays PCM audio, but I guess that is because I have it coming from the HDMI cable. Looking at the release specs for Ratchet and Clank they do use Dolby Digital.

I thought it a little odd that they would go to such lengths for a game soundtrack. As you say, it sounds as if your amp is displaying PCM due to the connection.

[noseeb13]

I thought it a little odd that they would go to such lengths for a game soundtrack. As you say, it sounds as if your amp is displaying PCM due to the connection.

Well I do get a better range of audio out of my PS3 than I do from the 360 IMO. Right now my PS3 uses HDMI but I used to have it set up with optical on both systems. Although I don't have the same game on both systems to compare I feel like the back channels have better clarity on Resistance and Ratchet than say Halo 3 or Gears of War.

[CocoPUFF]

Well I do get a better range of audio out of my PS3 than I do from the 360 IMO. Right now my PS3 uses HDMI but I used to have it set up with optical on both systems. Although I don't have the same game on both systems to compare I feel like the back channels have better clarity on Resistance and Ratchet than say Halo 3 or Gears of War.

My Elite is Hooked up via HDMI and it sounds just as good as the PS3. Actually the PS3 sounds just a smidge better than the Elite, but not by much...(7.1 BTW)

[Trilogy]

Well I do get a better range of audio out of my PS3 than I do from the 360 IMO. Right now my PS3 uses HDMI but I used to have it set up with optical on both systems. Although I don't have the same game on both systems to compare I feel like the back channels have better clarity on Resistance and Ratchet than say Halo 3 or Gears of War.

Is the 360 connected via HDMI also?

[noseeb13]

Is the 360 connected via HDMI also?

No, that is why I was making the comparison using my old set up of both using optical cables.

I don't have a 360 with HDMI, they announced it about 3 months after I got the 360 :(

[Trilogy]

No, that is why I was making the comparison using my old set up of both using optical cables.

I don't have a 360 with HDMI, they announced it about 3 months after I got the 360 :(

Don`t you just hate it when that happens.

[noseeb13]

Don`t you just hate it when that happens.

Yeah, but with most games on the 360 I don't think it would make that big a difference, Halo 3 looked good and it isn't even running at 720p. Bungie admitted it is like 678 because that was the only way they could maintain a consistent frame rate.

And then on the other side, I get a PS3 then they lower the price twice and then bring in a model with a bigger HHD for the same price I paid for mine, plus free movies. Or like the price cut on the iphone a month after I got it.
Its the price you pay with technology.:redface:

[Bullseye]

Tell me about it. You can get the PS3 for half the price i paid for it 6 months ago. Early adaptors normally end up paying more.

[Trilogy]

Yeah, but with most games on the 360 I don't think it would make that big a difference, Halo 3 looked good and it isn't even running at 720p. Bungie admitted it is like 678 because that was the only way they could maintain a consistent frame rate.

And then on the other side, I get a PS3 then they lower the price twice and then bring in a model with a bigger HHD for the same price I paid for mine, plus free movies. Or like the price cut on the iphone a month after I got it.
Its the price you pay with technology.:redface:

My player is now available at 1:3 the price I paid. As you have said, its just the way it goes with technology.

[elwood49]

I love it when HD-DVD Borgs say that they lost because of the BOGO sales.

Oh please. I'm a MUCH bigger HD-DVD than BR fan, and even I bought 12 BR discs during the sale (compared to 4 HD-DVD's). Hell, I didn't even have a Blu-Ray PLAYER at the time, and the sale still made me buy. I got all 12 BR discs for about $100. I own a 60GB PS3 now.

That's the only reason for the win, pure and simple. The Circuit City sale wasn't even advertised, and was limited to only 2 days. Pretty much the only people that knew about it were those with internet savvy.

That Amazon BR sale was much better anyway. You could get any Buena Vista BR disc for $9.58 shipped if you had the 10% discount (like me ;) ). Frys also had most of the Sony BR titles for $9.99 each. That's way better than anything CC offered.

[MiamiLoco]

Oh please. I'm a MUCH bigger HD-DVD than BR fan, and even I bought 12 BR discs during the sale (compared to 4 HD-DVD's). Hell, I didn't even have a Blu-Ray PLAYER at the time, and the sale still made me buy. I got all 12 BR discs for about $100. I own a 60GB PS3 now.

That's the only reason for the win, pure and simple. The Circuit City sale wasn't even advertised, and was limited to only 2 days. Pretty much the only people that knew about it were those with internet savvy.
Uh... that BOGO sales also applied to many HD-DVD titles ;)

[elwood49]

Uh... that BOGO sales also applied to many HD-DVD titles ;)

It didn't actually.

The Fry's deal had Paramount HD-DVD's for $13.50 each (as opposed to $9.99 for Sony Blu-Ray's), but there was no Amazon, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc, etc., etc. HD-DVD BOGO. All of those had BR BOGO's. Again, the CC HD-DVD BOGO only lasted 2 days.

The only HD-DVD BOGO's the whole week were 2 for $27 's Paramount deal and the brief 2 day CC BOGO deal.

[Bullseye]

Well Toshiba are selling off their machines for nothing at the moment. So thats a bigger cut for you guys.

[DSET]

did u guys talk about the warner rumor?

big HUGE news if it happens:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner_Mulls_Change_in_High-Def_Strategy/1123

[noseeb13]

did u guys talk about the warner rumor?

big HUGE news if it happens:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner_Mulls_Change_in_High-Def_Strategy/1123

:bawling:

Hopefully this is more of a taken out of context situation, hopefully.

I think Warner does pretty well supporting both it would be a shame for them to pick a side.

[Red X]

:buttrock: I hope they go with Blu-ray.


Those who don't obviously have an HD DVD player, and picked the wrong side.

[Trilogy]

did u guys talk about the warner rumor?

big HUGE news if it happens:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner_Mulls_Change_in_High-Def_Strategy/1123

Sounds like they are going Blu-ray exclusive.

[Bullseye]

These are just rumours. I would be amazed if they moved away from neutrality so close to Christmas. Disc sales of WB titles will play a big part in their decision in the future.

[Trilogy]

That is very true. Though it could also have a bigger impact going exclusive at this time.

[Bullseye]

They are definitely thinking of going exclusive but until i see an offical statement to that effect its only rumours. It is however, from looking at these articles, looking good for Blu Ray. But I won't be counting my chickens on this one.

[Trilogy]

Something is definitely afoot. They`ve certainly got the attention of the HD community.

[Bullseye]

Certainly. If they go BD exclusive I see no way of BD loosing. If they go HD-DVD exclusive you end up with half and half. And the likelihood of multi-format players becoming the norm. WB will have a big say in how this panes out.

[Trilogy]

It would seem that the future of HD is pretty much in their hands right now.

[noseeb13]

The announcement is probably going to be something silly like "we are ditching TotalHD" (the hybrid disc).

[Bullseye]

Most likely they will be announcing future releases.

[Trilogy]

The announcement is probably going to be something silly like "we are ditching TotalHD" (the hybrid disc).

:laugh: I never thought of that.

[Trilogy]

Most likely they will be announcing future releases.

Hopefully. :thumbs2:

[Bullseye]

I just heard an add for Sony stores giving Blu Ray players away for free with their higher-end LCDs.

[Bullseye]

Just rang up the stores. They are giving away the PS3 with the X-series LCDs.

[snappahead]

You're starting to scare me, Bulls.

[Bullseye]

It is Halloween. Nothing wrong with a free PS3;)

[Trilogy]

I just heard an add for Sony stores giving Blu Ray players away for free with their higher-end LCDs.

:eek: Nice!

[snappahead]

Nothing wrong with a free PS3;)

Well, that's true..but if it means buying a $4,000 tv to get it, it doesn't seem free. I guess if you were buying the tv anyway and the PS3 was a unexpected bonus...then sweet!

I was mostly referring to your creepy obsession though.:confused2

[Trilogy]

Well, that's true..but if it means buying a $4,000 tv to get it, it doesn't seem free. I guess if you were buying the tv anyway and the PS3 was a unexpected bonus...then sweet!

If I were after a new screen and already had a PS3, I`d ask for a cash discount rather than the player.

[snappahead]

Good point. I don't guess they'd have any 360s.

[Trilogy]

Good point. I don't guess they'd have any 360s.

In a Sony store. :peoples: lol

[Bullseye]

Good point. I don't guess they'd have any 360s.

Your a creepy MS XBox supporter :confused2 disguised as a Toshiba fanboy lol.

[snappahead]

I don't even own a Toshiba....anything. And just because I'm not a Sony lover, doesn't make me an MS supporter.

[Bullseye]

I don't even own a Toshiba....anything. And just because I'm not a Sony lover, doesn't make me an MS supporter.

Ah you know you love your XBox.:) and have shares in MS. (jking).

[snappahead]

No, it's true..I do love my 360. I just don't care much about the name on the box. My tvs a Panasonic..don't know jack about Panasonic. My recievers a Kenwood...don't know jack about Kenwood. ...you get the idea. I wish I had shares of MS especially if I'd bought them 20 years ago.

[Bullseye]

You should invest in the new Panasonic BD player just announced. Only $499. A bargin at half the price;)

[snappahead]

You should invest in the new Panasonic BD player just announced. Only $499. A bargin at half the price;)

I already have a PS3, remember.

[Bullseye]

Thats true and the PS3 is said to be compatible with Profile 1 and 2.

[snappahead]

Thats true and the PS3 is said to be compatible with Profile 1 and 2.

Profile 1 and 2? Man, I'm never going to figure this hd crap out.

[Bullseye]

Its to do with interactivity and PiP. The toys for the boys.

[noseeb13]

Hey Bulls here is your answer to the pricing of the HD DVD players.

Meanwhile, Toshiba says the rash of recent price cuts for its HD-A2 Player (which recently hit sub-$200 price levels at several top retailers) were retail-driven.

"There was no official move on our MSRP, but I’m happy to see the strong sales momentum on our players," Sally told HMM. "We experienced a great lift in player sales when 'Transformers' was released, and the strong momentum continues."
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Toshiba/Kmart/High-Def_Retailing/Kmart_Goes_HD_DVD_Toshiba_Says_Recent_Price_Cuts_Retail-Driven/1129

[Bullseye]

Interesting. I find it hard to believe that they are making any money on these since some DVD players sell for more.

[noseeb13]

Interesting. I find it hard to believe that they are making any money on these since some DVD players sell for more.

True, I saw an upconverting DVD player for $200 at Best Buy and I thought why not just get an HD DVD player for the same price?

And come to think of it I think it was a Toshiba DVD player...

[snappahead]

Interesting. I find it hard to believe that they are making any money on these since some DVD players sell for more.

Yeah, I agree. But then, this is all part of a format war and the first thing you have to do is get the hardware in homes. The benefit of that to Toshiba is questionable though.

[Trilogy]

I would be concerned that if a player is being produced with such a cheap price tag and still making a profit. That the components in that player can`t be too good. JMO

For example buying a DVD player from your local supermarket for $75 is not going to have the same quality components as a player that costs $400 and will not produce the same quality results as that $400 player.

[Bullseye]

I would be concerned that if a player is being produced with such a cheap price tag and still making a profit. That the components in that player can`t be too good. JMO

For example buying a DVD player from your local supermarket for $75 is not going to have the same quality components as a player that costs $400 and will not produce the same quality results as that $400 player.

I agree.

[snappahead]

I do and I don't agree. The thing just has to work. If it's got the same functionality as a high end machine and does it's job...who cares how cheap it is. I know the average consumer doesn't. Cheap stuff sells. Always has..always will.

[Trilogy]

I know from many years of Hi-Fi and AV that you get what you pay for. At the end of the day if your happy with the hardware "just working" that's great. I would rather have premium components that will produce the best possible results.

[snappahead]

I know from many years of Hi-Fi and AV that you get what you pay for. At the end of the day if your happy with the hardware "just working" that's great. I would rather have premium components that will produce the best possible results.

You're not the average consumer then. Most people just want cheap stuff that works:) If it works, does it really matter that the parts aren't "premium"?

[Trilogy]

You're not the average consumer then. Most people just want cheap stuff that works:) If it works, does it really matter that the parts aren't "premium"?

As you say, perhaps I`m not the average consumer. Personally I think it does matter, but if it produces the quality of performance that you are happy with then that's all that really matters. Obviously you have to consider performance relevant to cost.

[noseeb13]

I know from many years of Hi-Fi and AV that you get what you pay for. At the end of the day if your happy with the hardware "just working" that's great. I would rather have premium components that will produce the best possible results.

Remember too that these are 3rd gen players. Price of components always go down drastically each generation.

Like I bought the A1 last year, then a few months ago I bought the A2 which loads faster and has a better picture IMO, is smaller and was half the price. There were some minuses from the A2 like analog 5.1 output but I wasn't using that anyway.
So now I have better for cheaper, but you are right there is that line where too low of a price hints at poor quality.

[Trilogy]

Remember too that these are 3rd gen players. Price of components always go down drastically each generation.

Like I bought the A1 last year, then a few months ago I bought the A2 which loads faster and has a better picture IMO, is smaller and was half the price. There were some minuses from the A2 like analog 5.1 output but I wasn't using that anyway.
So now I have better for cheaper, but you are right there is that line where too low of a price hints at poor quality.

That is very true. As components become easier and cheaper to produce the hardware will also become more affordable.

DVD is a fine example of this. However once again there is that difference between quality. Although an average DVD will cost far less than previous years. You can still purchase high end machines that will cost much more and produce far better results due to the premium components within.

[Bullseye]

Remember too that these are 3rd gen players. Price of components always go down drastically each generation.

Like I bought the A1 last year, then a few months ago I bought the A2 which loads faster and has a better picture IMO, is smaller and was half the price. There were some minuses from the A2 like analog 5.1 output but I wasn't using that anyway.
So now I have better for cheaper, but you are right there is that line where too low of a price hints at poor quality.

That would be the norm if they were selling millions of these but they are not.

[noseeb13]

That would be the norm if they were selling millions of these but they are not.

Yeah, pricing probably went down a little, but it looks like retailers are the ones issuing the price cuts, and not so much the manufacturers.

[Bullseye]

But the retailers are not going to take a cut unless there is an incentive. Going from +$200 to $169 or the rumoured $99 is a massive jump. It just does not make any sort of sense. Also isn't this offer only for one hour?

[Trilogy]

I would have thought that these discounts were backed by manufacturer. I can`t see why retailers would offer players at such prices hugely cutting into their profits.

[CocoPUFF]

I would have thought that these discounts were backed by manufacturer. I can`t see why retailers would offer players at such prices hugely cutting into their profits.

if they are going for that cheap, the vendors will PAY walmart to sell them for that to make up for their profit loss..that's the ONLY way walmart will benefit from this..

[noseeb13]

I bet the profit margins are much larger on Disc sales, so the retailer might take a smaller profit margin if they know that they can make up the money on the discs. Why do you think everything is on sale the first week it is released.
They sell more at the reduced price, which in the end makes them more money than if they sold fewer at a higher price.

Take the supposed Friday sale at Wal Mart. Wal Mart is hoping that you will buy a cheap player and then since you got such a great deal buy 6 HD DVDs to go with it, or better yet you buy this player and need an HDTV which they just so happen to have.

[Bullseye]

So by that logic people won't buy a $399 BD player but will buy a $99 HD-DVD so that they can spend a further $2000 + for a decent LCD. That makes no sense to me. Your not going to get the full benifit of your 1080p TV.

[Trilogy]

if they are going for that cheap, the vendors will PAY walmart to sell them for that to make up for their profit loss..that's the ONLY way walmart will benefit from this..

Which as I said would make this a manufacturer backed promotion.

[snappahead]

So by that logic people won't buy a $399 BD player but will buy a $99 HD-DVD so that they can spend a further $2000 + for a decent LCD. That makes no sense to me. Your not going to get the full benifit of your 1080p TV.

I agree with you, but it still is a common thing. You could say someone who just spent 2k on a tv might not want to spend an additional $400 for a player. As I've always said..people love cheap stuff. As long as it works....I also refuse to believe the stuff about price being a huge factor in quality. You and Trilogy believe it and that's all good, but I don't.

[Trilogy]

I`ve had far too much Hi-Fi and AV equipment over the years not to know that quality components equals better results. ;)

[snappahead]

I`ve had far too much Hi-Fi and AV equipment over the years not to know that quality components equals better results. ;)

Yes they do..but who's to say that the expensive item is the only one with quality components. You're paying for the name recognition as much as the unit itself.

[Bullseye]

I agree with you, but it still is a common thing. You could say someone who just spent 2k on a tv might not want to spend an additional $400 for a player. As I've always said..people love cheap stuff. As long as it works....I also refuse to believe the stuff about price being a huge factor in quality. You and Trilogy believe it and that's all good, but I don't.

And your probably a good indication of how alot of people feel. I am sure Trilogy and myself would not be alone in our feelings on quality aswell.

[snappahead]

And your probably a good indication of how alot of people feel. I am sure Trilogy and myself would not be alone in our feelings on quality aswell.

You're right..there's a ton of people just like you and Trilogy. I'm still in the majority though:) Look at how long it took people to adopt the dvd format. Once dvd players hit stupid low prices...that's when it became "owned by all"

[Trilogy]

Yes they do..but who's to say that the expensive item is the only one with quality components. You're paying for the name recognition as much as the unit itself.

Not at all. Most Brand names make a varied scale of equipment/hardware. At the lower end of the scale where you would pay less, you will indeed have lower quality components than you would receive in the higher end of the market. You do pay for component quality and a higher quality of engineering.

[snappahead]

Not at all. Most Brand names make a varied scale of equipment/hardware. At the lower end of the scale where you would pay less, you will indeed have lower quality components than you would receive in the higher end of the market. You do pay for component quality and a higher quality of engineering.

That's still an assumption on your part. The more expensive item will have more functions..snazzier features and interface perhaps, but I doubt the pieces are that much different. They all still come from the same factory in China. It still uses plastic and metal...

[Trilogy]

That's still an assumption on your part. The more expensive item will have more functions..snazzier features and interface perhaps, but I doubt the pieces are that much different. They all still come from the same factory in China. It still uses plastic and metal...

It`s not an assumption. The components are of different quality in relation to the price tag. You will not have the same components in a $200 piece of hardware that you will find in a $800 piece.

[Bullseye]

That's still an assumption on your part. The more expensive item will have more functions..snazzier features and interface perhaps, but I doubt the pieces are that much different. They all still come from the same factory in China. It still uses plastic and metal...

Thats crazy talk. In its simplist terms its like comparing a Intel Pentium 2 chip to their newest Pentium D chip. There is no comparison.

Do you have the original A1 player? I have. It reminds me of the old Betamax players. Big and chunky. Takes forever to load the disc and the remote may as well me a fishing rod. Now it still plays movies and looks great but you cannot even compare that to the newest Toshiba.

[snappahead]

Thats crazy talk. In its simplist terms its like comparing a Intel Pentium 2 chip to their newest Pentium D chip. There is no comparison.

Do you have the original A1 player? I have. It reminds me of the old Betamax players. Big and chunky. Takes forever to load the disc and the remote may as well me a fishing rod. Now it still plays movies and looks great but you cannot even compare that to the newest Toshiba.

Quick making such terrible comparisons to make your point. You compared an old item to a new item. Of course they'll have different components.

[Bullseye]

Yeah but your assuming that this machine will have the same quality components of more expensive machines which is not the case.

[snappahead]

It`s not an assumption. The components are of different quality in relation to the price tag. You will not have the same components in a $200 piece of hardware that you will find in a $800 piece.

Again, you're taking the lowest priced item and comparing it to the highest. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that a $100 player will be all but identical in component quality to a $200 or probably even a $300 player. I'm not some idiot that thinks there's no difference between two vastly different items. I'm just trying to make a point that price isn't always everything and you can't judge the quality of a piece simply by it's price tag. Is that really worth disagreeing over?

[snappahead]

Yeah but your assuming that this machine will have the same quality components of more expensive machines which is not the case.

And you know this how? Exactly. Just trying to make a point. The BD boys don't have to gang up on me.

[Bullseye]

By reading the specifications of the machines and talking with experts who know what they are on about in regard to picture and audio. It seems to me that alot of the employees working at these stores (all around the world) don't know their arse from their elbow. You really need to seek out the proper professionals. I don't have them here at the office but i will try and find some links for you.


BTW i give great credit to Toshiba for this move.

[Trilogy]

Again, you're taking the lowest priced item and comparing it to the highest. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that a $100 player will be all but identical in component quality to a $200 or probably even a $300 player. I'm not some idiot that thinks there's no difference between two vastly different items. I'm just trying to make a point that price isn't always everything and you can't judge the quality of a piece simply by it's price tag. Is that really worth disagreeing over?

No its not and I don`t think your an idiot. I was just using those two price points as an example. As I said it is not an assumption. The more you pay the better the components and engineering. Whether that difference is small or large there is still a difference. ;)

[Trilogy]

By reading the specifications of the machines and talking with experts who know what they are on about in regard to picture and audio. It seems to me that alot of the employees working at these stores (all around the world) don't know their arse from their elbow. You really need to seek out the proper professionals. I don't have them here at the office but i will try and find some links for you.


BTW i give great credit to Toshiba for this move.

Yes you really need to visit a dedicated AV store. Where the staff are very well experienced and know what they are talking about.

[snappahead]

By reading the specifications of the machines and talking with experts who know what they are on about in regard to picture and audio. It seems to me that alot of the employees working at these stores (all around the world) don't know their arse from their elbow. You really need to seek out the proper professionals. I don't have them here at the office but i will try and find some links for you.


BTW i give great credit to Toshiba for this move.

It's ok, Bulls. I'll take your word for it. I still stand by my words and think I'm right, but we all think we're right, so it's a moot point. With almost everything we buy..we're paying for advertising as much as quality. It's a fact. It costs alot of money to make a brand name. It's returned to them by the huge mark ups of their merchandise.

[Bullseye]

Another example and probably more obvious is a watch. I nice wrist watch could set you back a couple of grand (Tag Heuer or Omega Seamaster for example) and then you have a Seiko. Both look great, both tell the same time but the components in the Tag and Seamaster are far superior, most likely hand made and will have a better guarantee. They will also be working in 100 years bases on how well Swiss made watches produced.

[Bullseye]

It's ok, Bulls. I'll take your word for it. I still stand by my words and think I'm right, but we all think we're right, so it's a moot point. With almost everything we buy..we're paying for advertising as much as quality. It's a fact. It costs alot of money to make a brand name. It's returned to them by the huge mark ups of their merchandise.

You should never assume your right on things like this. I would always research before spending my hard earned money. You want the item you buy to last and be as good on day 900 as it was on day 1.

[snappahead]

It's ok, Bulls. I'll take your word for it. I still stand by my words and think I'm right, but we all think we're right, so it's a moot point. With almost everything we buy..we're paying for advertising as much as quality. It's a fact. It costs alot of money to make a brand name. It's returned to them by the huge mark ups of their merchandise.

This applies to the watches too.

[snappahead]

You should never assume your right on things like this. I would always research before spending my hard earned money. You want the item you buy to last and be as good on day 900 as it was on day 1.

You're assuming you're right..why can't I? My VCR was $60. I've had it for 12 years. Guess what. It still works. My DVD player was the cheapest player I could find about 10 years ago.....it still works. That's my research.

[Bullseye]

LOL.

No when you buy a Tag or an Omega your buying not only a brand but your buying quality. Something that you can pass on to your son.