Hitler

[William Paquet]

Interesting discussion- http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL0245631020080602?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews&rpc=69

I can see both sides, but I lean toward omitting the visage of the devil. Probably just a publicity stunt for the museum anyway, which makes it clearly detestable.

[mwf6171]

At what point do we as a people start letting some of this stuff go??? You have native americans complaining about the white man, you have african americans complaining about slavery, you have Germans and jews complaining about Nazis. You have catholics complaining about protestants, you have christians complaining about jews and muslims.......

I don't think anyone should forget the past, but it is definately time to forgive and move forward as one people. JMO.......

[adee]

Touchy subject. I too understand the views of both sides. It is called a museum and a museum should not be solely meant for entertaining and amusement but also for education and learning

[Nitefall]

I don't know.

[rychehitman]

I agree that such a figure could attract neo-Nazis.

I do not see any educational benefits about displaying Hitler in a Berlin branch of a wax museum.

I dont even see the educational benefits of a wax museum in general.

bad idea all around

[Bob Aboey]

I personally see nothing wrong with a visage of Hitler, Sadam, or any other monster in history, so long as the purpose of that is educational. I don't think that this wax museum meets that requirement at all. Because something labels itself an entertainment outlet does not absolve it of responsible behaviour.

I am quite surprised at the glib comments this article has inspired thus far, and I am chalking it up to e-mail misinterpretation.

During the last federal election (or second last) in Germany, the Nazi Party received 23% of the vote... there is still a huge Nazi movement in Germany, and it is only through proactive efforts that Germany has not fallen back to a very dark place. Many like to think that such a thing could not happen in today's enlightened age but many thought such a thing couldn't happen in the late '40s, too.

To say that people need to let some things go may be true, but I don't know that the example of Native Americans, African Americans, or Jews harbouring ill will toward their historical oppressors is where it should start. We feel like all of these events that feel like ages ago, happened as recently as 60 years ago... not that far removed as we might think or hope. The same can be said for the American Civil Rights movement. And I'll come over to your house, get you drunk, steal your house, force you to switch religions, forbid you to practice your traditions... all under pain of death, and see how quickly you will be able to let it go and move on.

Harbouring resentment is poisonous to the soul, but to let it go and move on implies forgetting about it, and nothing could be more dangerous as a civilization.

[mwf6171]

I personally see nothing wrong with a visage of Hitler, Sadam, or any other monster in history, so long as the purpose of that is educational. I don't think that this wax museum meets that requirement at all. Because something labels itself an entertainment outlet does not absolve it of responsible behaviour.

I am quite surprised at the glib comments this article has inspired thus far, and I am chalking it up to e-mail misinterpretation.

During the last federal election (or second last) in Germany, the Nazi Party received 23% of the vote... there is still a huge Nazi movement in Germany, and it is only through proactive efforts that Germany has not fallen back to a very dark place. Many like to think that such a thing could not happen in today's enlightened age but many thought such a thing couldn't happen in the late '40s, too.

To say that people need to let some things go may be true, but I don't know that the example of Native Americans, African Americans, or Jews harbouring ill will toward their historical oppressors is where it should start. We feel like all of these events that feel like ages ago, happened as recently as 60 years ago... not that far removed as we might think or hope. The same can be said for the American Civil Rights movement. And I'll come over to your house, get you drunk, steal your house, force you to switch religions, forbid you to practice your traditions... all under pain of death, and see how quickly you will be able to let it go and move on.

Harbouring resentment is poisonous to the soul, but to let it go and move on implies forgetting about it, and nothing could be more dangerous as a civilization.


Exactly my point. I agree that you can go back through history and find many more examples. Aztecs and the Spanish.........Nearly everyone in Persian and the Greeks etc etc etc.........

[VinReaper]

I think his visage should be left to books!

I agree that harboring ill will is just poisonous and education is a must.

But it should be just that. He should not be made an icon good or bad.

I don't believe that his kind should be forgiven for their atrocities. But what I mean when I say "their kind", I mean Nazis NOT Germans.

JMO

VR

[William Paquet]

I think as long as there are still living victims of the heinous acts committed under his orders that his ugly mug should be out of the bounds of good taste. Maybe in another 50 or 100 hundred years it would be seen more as an historical exercise, but it is still too close to the events.

I'm pretty sure Tussauds has done renderings of other infamous figures, but really there needs to be a big buffer of time before a display is created. I don't think it would be well received right now, and I do think it's a publicity schtick for the museum to be honest. Germany has very strict laws regarding use of images or memorabilia of the Nazi party, which I am sure the museum is well aware of.

[VinReaper]

I think as long as there are still living victims of the heinous acts committed under his orders that his ugly mug should be out of the bounds of good taste. Maybe in another 50 or 100 hundred years it would be seen more as an historical exercise, but it is still too close to the events.

I'm pretty sure Tussauds has done renderings of other infamous figures, but really there needs to be a big buffer of time before a display is created. I don't think it would be well received right now, and I do think it's a publicity schtick for the museum to be honest. Germany has very strict laws regarding use of images or memorabilia of the Nazi party, which I am sure the museum is well aware of.

Agreed!!!

And not only time, nut the eradication of the views which he professed and preached should be long dead. The fact that their still are Nazis should be an obvious sign saying no to his visage in any form other then a history texts telling of his crimes and teaching of the wrong doings of his followers.


VR

[CessnaDriver]

They have made movies about Hitler.
Charged admission for them.
"Downfall" was a hell of a good movie.

Movies are 2D art.
Sculpture is 3D.

What is the difference here?

I think it is because normally they make wax sculptures of basically celebrities we like, from all walks of life.

So they may have stepped out of their normal public expectations with this.

[VinReaper]

They have made movies about Hitler.
Charged admission for them.
"Downfall" was a hell of a good movie.

Movies are 2D art.
Sculpture is 3D.

What is the difference here?

I think it is because normally they make wax sculptures of basically celebrities we like, from all walks of life.

So they may have stepped out of their normal public expectations with this.

Making a statue of a person used to be in praise of them. It was a great honor for a great person.

Hence everything from the Colossus of Rhodes to Rocky on the top of the fair stairs. Symbols of heroes put their by others. In the case of dictators, they always erected their own statues of themselves. Stalin, Lenin, Saddam, etc....

And when they are over thrown what is the first thing to happen. Their statue is desecrated, torn down, smashed, burned etc.

It is a very personal thing the 3D image. It should not be made of this monster. JMO

VR

[Averone]

"Downfall" was a hell of a good movie.

This was a very good movie, I enjoyed it very much! You should all see it if you havent. I have tons of WWII Nazi Hitler era planes/Rc tanks and they are my prize collections, that doent make me a Hilter lover! The movie clearly shows the kind of man/monster he was and I think the Wax display will do the same! Kids/children need to see him and never forget what one man is capable of doing. To put him in a book is just not the same as to make him 3D. If you read the article you see that the musem was going to display him as a broken man. I see nothing wrong with that! Although I think he should be in the monsters section and not with the stars of the show!

By the way didnt other wax musems already have him?? Its just Germany we are talking about right?

[VinReaper]

"Downfall" was a hell of a good movie.

This was a very good movie, I enjoyed it very much! You should all see it if you havent. I have tons of WWII Nazi Hitler era planes/Rc tanks and they are my prize collections, that doent make me a Hilter lover! The movie clearly shows the kind of man/monster he was and I think the Wax display will do the same! Kids/children need to see him and never forget what one man is capable of doing. To put him in a book is just not the same as to make him 3D. If you read the article you see that the musem was going to display him as a broken man. I see nothing wrong with that! Although I think he should be in the monsters section and not with the stars of the show!

By the way didnt other wax musems already have him?? Its just Germany we are talking about right?


That is a good question! Not sure, but would like to know the answer.

VR

[CessnaDriver]

All they have to do is make a Cap wax figure taking him down and everything will be fine....

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii44/CessnaDriver/cap1.jpg

[Bob Aboey]

All they have to do is make a Cap wax figure taking him down and everything will be fine....

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii44/CessnaDriver/cap1.jpg

When was this comic released? March 1941, at a time when the US was trying to show their support for the troops/issue war propaganda by showing America trouncing the Axis.

What are the motives behind this wax museum who has created their fame from enshrining celebrities as previously mentioned, to create a Hitler exhibit in Germany?

Again, very seemingly glib comments...

[Bob Aboey]

They have made movies about Hitler.
Charged admission for them.
"Downfall" was a hell of a good movie.

Movies are 2D art.
Sculpture is 3D.

What is the difference here?

I think it is because normally they make wax sculptures of basically celebrities we like, from all walks of life.

So they may have stepped out of their normal public expectations with this.

The movie was a sort of biopic of Hitler's life. What purpose is the sculpture serving?

To imply that somehow this museum has "stepped out of the box" and developed this wildly inventive notion of paying homage to an individual who history uses as its poster-boy for evil for anything less than publicity is flawed. I think that, in Germany in particular, a sensitivity to this topic must be exercised.

I can't imagine that this exhibit would fly in North America...

[CessnaDriver]

When was this comic released? March 1941, at a time when the US was trying to show their support for the troops/issue war propaganda by showing America trouncing the Axis.

What are the motives behind this wax museum who has created their fame from enshrining celebrities as previously mentioned, to create a Hitler exhibit in Germany?

Again, very seemingly glib comments...

It's a joke, since this is a comic statue forum figured it would fly.

Personally, if people want to be upset, I think that creepy drawing of Bucky at the bottom is pretty offensive.
'Nuther joke.

[CessnaDriver]

The movie was a sort of biopic of Hitler's life. What purpose is the sculpture serving?

To imply that somehow this museum has "stepped out of the box" and developed this wildly inventive notion of paying homage to an individual who history uses as its poster-boy for evil for anything less than publicity is flawed. I think that, in Germany in particular, a sensitivity to this topic must be exercised.

I can't imagine that this exhibit would fly in North America...


It's fascinating how one form of art is considered culturally appropriate for certain topics, and another is not.

I'm not condoning anything, simply making the observation. I am not even disagreeing that displaying a wax Hitler is a bad idea.


But of course it touches on censorship issues.
As comic fans that has to touch a cord.
The industry was nearly wiped out.


What of actual NAZI propaganda art, I mean how can you educate how they got people to go along with such atrocities without showing it? Sure, some fool will want to Sieg Heil at it, but the context of how such things are displayed is another important factor.

There are macabre displays of body parts they charge admission for. Little street museums, often advertised as "death museums" and such.

We had that "bodies" show come through our city recently, and it was at a mall of all places. Seemed to me it should have been at a natural history museum or university or something. Mall just seemed undignified to me for displaying human remains.


As was mentioned earlier, statues are considered to elevate and glorify more then other art,
I find that interesting, and it's interesting cultural acceptance of it or not, and also the censorship issues involved.

And again, I am not disagreeing necessarily with cultural norms in that regard.

Remember the buzz when the Sin City Marv in the electric chair happened? or the MJ statue?

Some people felt those things were not appropriate and it got national media attention.

Those kind of things peak my interest.

[DC_Universe_Grl]

That is a good question! Not sure, but would like to know the answer.

VR
I believe the article stated there is already a wax piece of him in the museum in London.

[VinReaper]

I believe the article stated there is already a wax piece of him in the museum in London.

How unfortunate!

VR

[CessnaDriver]

I was surprised to learn they have been doing this as far back as 1942 in England.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/england/1806104.stm

[daveyyojimbo]

I think as long as there are still living victims of the heinous acts committed under his orders that his ugly mug should be out of the bounds of good taste. Maybe in another 50 or 100 hundred years it would be seen more as an historical exercise, but it is still too close to the events.

I'm pretty sure Tussauds has done renderings of other infamous figures, but really there needs to be a big buffer of time before a display is created. I don't think it would be well received right now, and I do think it's a publicity schtick for the museum to be honest. Germany has very strict laws regarding use of images or memorabilia of the Nazi party, which I am sure the museum is well aware of.

Totally agree.

[CessnaDriver]

well, somebody took him out already!.....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4280326.ece

[risingstar]

I wonder if some people dismiss or show an impatience for these concerns because it doesn't seem to effect them or their family personally or directly.

Imagine for a moment that we're talking about someone who thought it was a good idea to burn your grandparents alive in an oven, or to poison your two year old and four year old nieces in a gas chamber, or to harbor an environment where your mother was repeatedly raped until she couldn't scream anymore. Then, perhaps for game, her gang of nazi rapists found it amusing to see how many bullets it would take to blow her head clear off her body. Perhaps we might also consider the person we're talking about here also signed off on experiments that endeavoured to discover the extremes of pain thresholds by perfoming autopsies on live subjects that could have been your father. These images only begin to describe the atrocities that took place.

I find it sad to see when some people show such utter indifference to these crimes and tell those who can't help but still grieve to "get over it", as if they had some nerve expressing a difficulty getting past the idea that their entire race, let alone their total family bloodline, was almost completely exterminated by a deranged mass murderer.

Yes, this did happen a long time ago, and yes, it happened to many families I consider close to me. Forgive us all if we don't subscribe to the point of view that seems to suggest that we're overreacting.

[High Lord Apocalypse]

I agree that such a figure could attract neo-Nazis.

I do not see any educational benefits about displaying Hitler in a Berlin branch of a wax museum.

I dont even see the educational benefits of a wax museum in general.

bad idea all around

i agree 100%.

[High Lord Apocalypse]

How unfortunate!

VR

ditto. i lived in poland for about a year and couldnt bring myself to go to Auschwitz. i just got more enraged, upset, etc when my friends described what they saw whats there or whats left.

[joy_division]

I believe the article stated there is already a wax piece of him in the museum in London.

I think the difference there is that it's not on home turf.

yes hitler is a piece of Germany's past, but it is a very dark and ugly past. Maybe 60 or so years is still too soon

[joy_division]

I wonder if it had the correct genitalia....