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Zurbaran1
06-06-2008, 04:14 PM
I need some help. I used to be an SLR guy back in the days of film. With digital I got a bit lazy and went with the convenience of the P&S. While I am quite happy with my Canon G7, I've caught the bug again and I think I want to go out and pickup a Digital SLR. Problem is I'm not really sure which one. I know it will be either a Canon or a Nikon but there are some really good choices between them. I've looked at the Rebel XSi and 40D on the Canon side and the D60, D80 or dare I go so far as the pricey D300. I'd be interested to hear what some of you folks have to say. I'd also want to go with 2 good quality lenses that would cover most of my shooting situations, say 18-55mm and 70-300mm. Post away.

P1X4R
06-06-2008, 06:58 PM
first question. how much is your budget? :)

i need to know if you're comfortable driving this here sports car or if i need to direct you toward the economy vehicles. :D

Zurbaran1
06-07-2008, 12:18 AM
I like sports cars :)

patman
06-07-2008, 09:46 AM
economy for me. :D

Bullseye
06-07-2008, 09:49 AM
I like the Nikon D70 and love it. My mate Bosco has the Canon also excellent. I would stay mid range Zurb unless you plan on getting very serious.

P1X4R
06-07-2008, 01:39 PM
i'd say the slightly older model Canon Rebel XTi ($570) is a great buy. it's about $230 less than the new XSi ($800). this will help you invest the money saved on quality lenses.

but if you're itchin for the latest and greatest then the XSi or 40D are your top contenders. one thing to note which may or may not be important to you is how each camera feels in your hands. the XTi/XSi are rather small compared to say a 30D/40D where it feels heftier. just something to point out. you could always purchase a grip with the added benefit of an extra battery.

P1X4R
06-07-2008, 01:50 PM
now here's where it gets crazy. lenses!

here's what i recommend if i were to only have two to take on a vacation.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS ($1,030)
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 IS ($1,100)

the 17-55mm will be your general all-around lens to use. it'll be great for wide angle / group shots. the 70-200mm for longer ranges. both have IS (image stabilization).

Zurbaran1
06-08-2008, 01:12 PM
I like the Nikon D70 and love it. My mate Bosco has the Canon also excellent. I would stay mid range Zurb unless you plan on getting very serious.

Thanks Bulls. I've always wanted to own a Nikon but I always seem to wind up with something else. This time it's close but I think I am going to go with Canon.

Zurbaran1
06-08-2008, 01:17 PM
now here's where it gets crazy. lenses!

here's what i recommend if i were to only have two to take on a vacation.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS ($1,030)
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 IS ($1,100)

the 17-55mm will be your general all-around lens to use. it'll be great for wide angle / group shots. the 70-200mm for longer ranges. both have IS (image stabilization).

Thanks Ed, this is exactly what I am looking for although you probably just cost me 2K. I can get both these lenses from B&H for a little less than you quoted, $960 and $1025, respectively. In doing a bit of research these lenses sound super. I think my best bet is to go with a less expensive body (the Nikon D300 is $1799 for the body only), and make up for it with some real quality lenses.

I know you are a Canon guy, what's your equipment again. I'm now thinking XSi or D40, body, not with the lens kit, and grabbing these 2 lenses and a few additional accessories including a good flash. By the way, do you own these two lenses?

Bullseye
06-08-2008, 01:33 PM
Thanks Bulls. I've always wanted to own a Nikon but I always seem to wind up with something else. This time it's close but I think I am going to go with Canon.

Do you think you will invest in one of those self stabilizing lenses. Might be worth the extra.

Zurbaran1
06-08-2008, 01:36 PM
Do you think you will invest in one of those self stabilizing lenses. Might be worth the extra.

Bulls, the two pricey lenses Ed is pointing me at are just that (IS=Image Stabilization)

Bullseye
06-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Thats a pretty good price then Z. When i was last in the states the IS lenses were quoted at closer to 2 grand (Nikon). I may try and pick up one myself on my next trip.

P1X4R
06-08-2008, 02:12 PM
i have the 17-55mm and the f/2.8L IS version of the 70-200mm which is a LOT heavier than the f/4L. it's also a stop "faster" but man it is bulky to carry around! not to mention i paid $1,713 for it. btw, those prices i quoted earlier were from B&H but did not include canon's recent direct rebates. they may only be until the end of july.

P1X4R
06-08-2008, 02:16 PM
here's a list of my equipment. i have it sorted by which body i use the lenses with. btw, most of these prices were before canon's recent 3% price increase.

XTi
===
28mm f/1.8 399.95
EF-S 60mm f/2.8 384.95
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 639.95
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS 854.00
100mm f/2.8 476.94

30D
===
16-35mm f/2.8L I 1,369.88
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 429.00

5D
==
15mm f/2.8 579.95
50mm f/1.4 309.95
85mm f/1.8 346.94

14mm f/2.8L 2,009.99
24mm f/1.4L 1,119.00
35mm f/1.4L 1,119.95
50mm f/1.2L 1,542.88
85mm f/1.2L II 1,804.95
135mm f/2.0L 910.65
200mm f/2.8L II 665.94
300mm f/4L IS 1,210.00

16-35mm f/2.8 II 1,350.00 [next lens]
17-40mm f/4L 650.00
24-105mm f/4.0L IS 1,059.95
24-70mm f/2.8L 1,158.35
70-200mm f/2.8L IS 1,713.06

Canon 5D 12.8MP [Body Only] 2,179.99
Canon 30D 8.2MP [Body Only] 1,174.95
Canon XTi 10.1MP [Body Only] 699.99

P1X4R
06-08-2008, 02:18 PM
other accessories..

SanDisk 2 GB Extreme IV CompactFlash Card (2) 89.99
SanDisk 8 GB Extreme IV CompactFlash Card (1) 189.95
Sandisk Extreme FireWire Reader 65.14
Sandisk Extreme USB 2.0 Reader 21.67

Canon EP-EX15 II Eyepiece Extender (3) 17.95
Canon BG-E2 Battery Grip [30D] 161.40
Canon BG-E3 Battery Grip [XTi] 141.30
Canon BG-E4 Battery Grip [5D] 203.99
Canon BP-511A Battery Pack 46.97
Canon NB-2LH Battery Pack 49.88
Canon 580EX II Speedlite 329.95
Canon EW-83J Lens Hood for EF-S 17-55mm 49.95
Giottos Rocket Air Blaster (2) 7.99
Pelican 1614 Watertight 1610 Hard Case with Black Dolly with Padded Dividers (Black) 209.95
Uniphox remote cord for 30D / Model UWR-C80N3 7.00 (ebay seller hudsonriverphoto)
Uniphox remote cord for XTi / Model UWR-C60E3 5.98 (ebay seller hudsonriverphoto)
3157N Rectangular Quick Release Plate (RC2 System) with 1/4-20" Screw 11.95 (2)
3021BPRO Tripod Legs (Black) with 488RC2 Midi Ballhead (RC2 Quick Release) - Supports 11.8 lb 258.95
Bogen / Manfrotto BO681B3229 681B Monopod (Black) with 3229 Head 81.95

Zurbaran1
06-08-2008, 04:05 PM
HOLY SH*T!

geto10
06-09-2008, 08:30 AM
Ed, if you are running out of space, feel free to send some of that equipment to me. ;)

Preferably L series. ;)

SquiderM3
06-09-2008, 01:10 PM
here's a list of my equipment. i have it sorted by which body i use the lenses with. btw, most of these prices were before canon's recent 3% price increase.

XTi
===
28mm f/1.8 399.95
EF-S 60mm f/2.8 384.95
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 639.95
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS 854.00
100mm f/2.8 476.94

30D
===
16-35mm f/2.8L I 1,369.88
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 429.00

5D
==
15mm f/2.8 579.95
50mm f/1.4 309.95
85mm f/1.8 346.94

14mm f/2.8L 2,009.99
24mm f/1.4L 1,119.00
35mm f/1.4L 1,119.95
50mm f/1.2L 1,542.88
85mm f/1.2L II 1,804.95
135mm f/2.0L 910.65
200mm f/2.8L II 665.94
300mm f/4L IS 1,210.00

16-35mm f/2.8 II 1,350.00 [next lens]
17-40mm f/4L 650.00
24-105mm f/4.0L IS 1,059.95
24-70mm f/2.8L 1,158.35
70-200mm f/2.8L IS 1,713.06

Canon 5D 12.8MP [Body Only] 2,179.99
Canon 30D 8.2MP [Body Only] 1,174.95
Canon XTi 10.1MP [Body Only] 699.99

:eek: :eek: :eek: :bawling:

MONSTER
06-09-2008, 01:18 PM
Ed is the man!

HoldyourfireAl
06-09-2008, 03:40 PM
here's a list of my equipment. i have it sorted by which body i use the lenses with. btw, most of these prices were before canon's recent 3% price increase.

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS 854.00



Is this the lens you use for pics like this?....

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk180/HoldyourfireAl/Photographers/P1X4R/IMG_5513.jpg

insomniac
06-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Do the 5D lenses work with the 30D or XTI?

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Ed, thanks for all the good info. I've decided to go with Canon, now it's just which body. I am trying to decide between the 40D and the XSi. I am definitely going to pick up the two lenses you recommended, the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and the 70-200mm f/4L IS. They both sound awesome. For flash, I am looking at the Canon 580EX II Speedlite. I am reading great things about it. What's your take; is it overkill and should I go with the 430?

40D or XSi?? Decisions, decisions.

insomniac
06-09-2008, 09:26 PM
40D or XSi?? Decisions, decisions.

I am not sure if this matters to you but I like the feel of the heavier 40D more. It feels more solid and is slightly bigger.

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 09:43 PM
I am not sure if this matters to you but I like the feel of the heavier 40D more. It feels more solid and is slightly bigger.

I've heard that and it is something to consider. How about a comparison of the features. Any input?

Tyz1on
06-09-2008, 10:00 PM
I just got an Xsi and it's a nice piece of kit. I have an Xti as well, that I will probably sell now as the two cameras are too similar to keep both.

What I like about the Xsi so far:

1. It's a little bigger than the Xti but is lighter as well.
2. 3" live LCD
3. Uses SDHC cards. I picked up a Kingston 8 GB Class 6 card for $38.
4. Has it's own dedicated ISO button

Things I have read are improvements but because I'm kind of new to DSLR, I can't really comment on are:

1. Twelve megapixel CMOS sensor, 3.0" LCD monitor, Live View with both AF modes (contrast-detect and passive), 14-bit processing and RAW, spot metering, improved AF, 3.5 fps continuous shooting, a larger viewfinder, SD/SDHC storage and a new higher capacity battery. All in all a fairly impressive range of usage oriented improvements and refinements.

2. Live View

Available for the first time on a Canon consumer D-SLR, Live View mode makes it easier to shoot from awkward angles, such as ground-level macro shots or when shooting from a tripod. The image from the Live View mode is displayed as a smooth, 30fps video feed on the 3.0” LCD, which is 50% brighter than the screen of the EOS 400D. A grid line display and live histogram can be selected to help with shot composition and exposure. While focusing, the photographer can zoom in on specific details with up to 10x magnification of the image displayed on the LCD screen. Two types of auto focus are available: Quick AF flips the camera mirror momentarily to engage the AF sensor; Live AF uses the image contrast data to focus - a method familiar to anyone upgrading from a compact digital camera.

2. The EOS 450D complements its headline features with a host of smaller improvements that enhance the photographic experience. The viewfinder now displays all key exposure information including ISO speed. The addition of spot metering (4% of viewfinder) allows for greater control over exposure in tricky lighting conditions. PictBridge functionality has been expanded so that photographers can correct horizons and add picture effects before printing. A new high capacity battery extends shooting time on a single charge to a maximum of 500 shots.

About the only thing I don't like about the Xsi (Aside from a couple of hot pixels) are that the new higher capacity batteries are not the same physically as the Xti batteries, so no swapping. But then again if I didn't have an Xti then it wouldn't matter at all.

Hopefully Ed can add/comment on the text in italics as to it's relevancy in choosing your camera.

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Do the 5D lenses work with the 30D or XTI?

to answer your question. yes, they do. just because they're listed under my 5D section doesn't necessarily marry them to that body. the important thing to remember is that there are basically two types of mounts. EF and EF-S.

EF-S lenses are NOT compatible with Full Frame sensors like the 5D, 1D series bodies. i wouldn't worry too much about that though. just buy what you need now. there are some great EF-S lenses out there (60mm, 17-55mm).

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Thanks Tyz. I would definitely take the XsI over the XTi but I'd really like some comparison between it and the 40D as those are the two choices I have narrowed it down to (I think).

I feel Ed's presence in the air :)

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:17 PM
Canon has such a wide array of lenses to choose from which makes it such a flexible system to work with. check out these two picture links for the 17-55 and 70-200 f/4.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=234558
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=281807

camera bodies come and go. glass is forever! :thumbs2:

Ed, thanks for all the good info. I've decided to go with Canon, now it's just which body. I am trying to decide between the 40D and the XSi. I am definitely going to pick up the two lenses you recommended, the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and the 70-200mm f/4L IS. They both sound awesome. For flash, I am looking at the Canon 580EX II Speedlite. I am reading great things about it. What's your take; is it overkill and should I go with the 430?

40D or XSi?? Decisions, decisions.

insomniac
06-09-2008, 10:18 PM
I've heard that and it is something to consider. How about a comparison of the features. Any input?

Here is a general comparion between the XTI, XSI and 40D.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_xsi_vs_xti_vs_40D.html

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:20 PM
Is this the lens you use for pics like this?....



Al, i used the 50L on this shot. i also stopped it down to f/14.0 to get everything in focus.

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:20 PM
Ed, the glass is a done deal. I am getting those two. When my wife finds out I am spending 2K on them I am pointing her right in your direction. Now help me out picking the body!

Canon has such a wide array of lenses to choose from which makes it such a flexible system to work with. check out these two picture links for the 17-55 and 70-200 f/4.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=234558
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=281807

camera bodies come and go. glass is forever! :thumbs2:

insomniac
06-09-2008, 10:28 PM
P1X4R. Are those MSRP prices on those lenses or are they from a particular store? In Canada the 17-55mm is about $1200 on sale.

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:30 PM
Here is a general comparion between the XTI, XSI and 40D.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_xsi_vs_xti_vs_40D.html

that's a great link!

i will say from owning the older XTi and 30D bodies that the image quality from them are very similar. the XTi has more MP on the 30D but it's not an eye popping difference to my eye. now when i upgraded to the 5D... i was able to see a bigger difference.

from a non-technical rough comparison between the two.. i do prefer holding the thicker/grippier 30D over the XTi. it's just a personal preference. also, the fit/finish and construction quality is quite different. my XTi feels like "cheap" plastic parts whereas the 30D has nice leather grips. again, just a personal subtley. it all boils down to image quality which either camera does not disappoint. i believe the 30D/40D would make a better a sports/action camera. i know these aren't more technical differences to make a knowledgable choice. these are based on my personal experiences with each. i'm a camera gear nut so i don't mind buying and playing with them. :)

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:33 PM
Thanks Ed. I am now leaning toward the 40D and it's only $140 more than the XSi, which is really minor. I'm off to B&H on Wednesday. Let's see what I come home with. :)

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:34 PM
Ralph, you should go to a local electronics or camera shop and hold each one. btw, aren't you near B&H New York? you lucky dawg! :D

oh, i just remembered another feature that i preferred over the XTi with my 30D. i liked the rear wheel to move through the menus over the 4 buttons on the XTi. it just seemed smoother to navigate.

Ed, the glass is a done deal. I am getting those two. When my wife finds out I am spending 2K on them I am pointing her right in your direction. Now help me out picking the body!

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:38 PM
I am now leaning toward the 40D and it's only $140 more than the XSi, which is really minor.

wow, that is a minor amount! then if it were up to me i'd choose 40D! :thumbs2:

Yury (geto10) has a 40D. where is that guy?

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:39 PM
Ed, I work right across the street from them. I plan on checking the cameras out in B&H and then I'll make my final decision. The place is absolutely amazing. You would die once you walked through the doors.

Ralph, you should go to a local electronics or camera shop and hold each one. btw, aren't you near B&H New York? you lucky dawg! :D

oh, i just remembered another feature that i preferred over the XTi with my 30D. i liked the rear wheel to move through the menus over the 4 buttons on the XTi. it just seemed smoother to navigate.

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:40 PM
wow, that is a minor amount! then if it were up to me i'd choose 40D! :thumbs2:

Yury (geto10) has a 40D. where is that guy?

It is. XSi body $799. 40D body $939.

P1X4R
06-09-2008, 10:40 PM
P1X4R. Are those MSRP prices on those lenses or are they from a particular store? In Canada the 17-55mm is about $1200 on sale.

my list will have old prices. i bought mainly from B&H (www.bhphotovideo.com) and Amazon.com

insomniac
06-09-2008, 10:49 PM
I am not sure if these rebates apply in the U.S. but Canon has been running this special up here since March. If you buy the 40D and the 2 lenses you listed you can get quite a big rebate.

http://www.bccamera.com/images/canonrebate.pdf

insomniac
06-09-2008, 10:52 PM
my list will have old prices. i bought mainly from B&H (www.bhphotovideo.com) and Amazon.com


They have some great prices. I may have to talk my boss into sending me out to the New York office so I can pick up some lenses. :)

Zurbaran1
06-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Damn, those rebates are awesome. Unfortunately, I don't think they apply in the US. I'll ask about it.

HoldyourfireAl
06-09-2008, 11:58 PM
Al, i used the 50L on this shot. i also stopped it down to f/14.0 to get everything in focus.

Am I missing something? I don't see a 50L on your list!

XTi
===
28mm f/1.8 399.95
EF-S 60mm f/2.8 384.95
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 639.95
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS 854.00
100mm f/2.8 476.94

30D
===
16-35mm f/2.8L I 1,369.88
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 429.00

5D
==
15mm f/2.8 579.95
50mm f/1.4 309.95
85mm f/1.8 346.94

14mm f/2.8L 2,009.99
24mm f/1.4L 1,119.00
35mm f/1.4L 1,119.95
50mm f/1.2L 1,542.88
85mm f/1.2L II 1,804.95
135mm f/2.0L 910.65
200mm f/2.8L II 665.94
300mm f/4L IS 1,210.00

16-35mm f/2.8 II 1,350.00 [next lens]
17-40mm f/4L 650.00
24-105mm f/4.0L IS 1,059.95
24-70mm f/2.8L 1,158.35
70-200mm f/2.8L IS 1,713.06

Canon 5D 12.8MP [Body Only] 2,179.99
Canon 30D 8.2MP [Body Only] 1,174.95
Canon XTi 10.1MP [Body Only] 699.99

P1X4R
06-10-2008, 12:08 AM
it's under the 5D section.

50mm f/1.2L

HoldyourfireAl
06-10-2008, 12:44 AM
it's under the 5D section.

50mm f/1.2L

Aaaaah! So that's not for the XTi? If not, what's your sharpest lens for the XTi?

SquiderM3
06-10-2008, 03:58 PM
You really should consider the 5D as well. Yes, it is a bit more money but with the current rebates, prices have never been better. Everyone on the camera forum sites raves about this camera and the proof is in the pudding, P1X4R has one and look at the results (his lens collection and user skills are other factors to consider). I will wait another month or two myself and if the newer replacement doesn't show, I think I'll get one as back up.:thumbs2:

Zurbaran1
06-11-2008, 09:58 PM
Well folks I went and did it! Walked over to B&H on my lunch hour and dropped a bundle. Thanks Ed, I'll send you a bill for half the total since it was mostly your fault. Here's what I picked up:

Canon EOS 40D
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM
Canon Ew-83J Lens Hood f/17-55mm f/2.8
Canon Speedlite 580EX II
Canon Remote Switch RS-80N3
Sandisk 4GB Extreme III Compact Flash Card (2)

I'm really excited to finally get back into the SLR world and look forward to taking some awesome pics. Hopefully, I'll figure this baby out a bit before I head off to Spain for 3 weeks in the middle of July. I won't get to play with the camera until this weekend because the wife and kids want to give it to me for Father's Day. Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

Tyz1on
06-11-2008, 10:01 PM
Congrats on the Fathers Day score. That's quite the list of equipment.

P1X4R
06-11-2008, 10:11 PM
congrats Z! i know you're going to take some awesome shots! :thumbs2: :buttrock:

P1X4R
06-11-2008, 10:14 PM
Aaaaah! So that's not for the XTi? If not, what's your sharpest lens for the XTi?

hard to say. they're all quite sharp. the 60mm and 100mm macro lenses are nice to use on the xti.

Eternal_D
06-12-2008, 08:24 PM
do you guys know of any tutorials out there for using a SLR? I got a xti and I barely use it cuz it confused the heck outta me lol

Tyz1on
06-12-2008, 08:40 PM
Well you can start here, lots of good stuff:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=249006

Eternal_D
06-13-2008, 02:08 PM
thanks, got some reading to do!