Sick of the Wolverine bandwagon hating....

[Mad4Busts]

Here goes the solicitatation in Previews for the 2 characters:
Batman:
Official Movie Adaptation(1-shot)
Batman the movie and other tales of the Dark Knight(1-shot)
Detective Comics(monthly)
Batman(monthly)
Batman:Gotham Knights(monthly)
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight(monthly)
Year one: Scarecrow and Batman(mini series)
Batman secret files 2005(1-shot)
Batman: Dark Detective(mini series)
Batgirl(Batman appears..wow?!? who da thunk it)
Batman: Jekyll & Hyde(mini series)
Robin(with guess who guest appearing?)
Gotham Central(monthly)
Catwoman(again I am not kidding here Bats guest appears)
Nightwing(I s h i t you not he is in there!)
Superman/Batman(monthly)
Lex Luthor: Man of Steel(yep you guessed he is in Metropolis for this one)
Blood of the Demon(guest starring in Etrigan's book)
Birds of Prey( helping the girls out on a case)
Breach(JLA guest stars w/ ole Batty in tow)
JLA(monthly)
Green Arrow(guest starring)
Justice League Elite(monthly)
The OMAC Project(mini series guest starring the JLA with Bats)
The Batman Strikes(animated show based monthly)
Justice League Unlimited(Animated show based monthly)

WHEW! ok finally that is all the BATMAN! I am not kidding here, and I am not slanted I like both characters, I am just trying to show the slant towards jumping on a Wolvie Bandwagon of him being overused...

Wolverine:
Marvel Nemesis(mini series)
Ultimate X-men(monthly)
Marvel Knights Spiderman(guest starring the New Avengers w/ Wolvie)
Wolverine(monthly)
GLA(guest starring in this Spoof of the JLA)
The Pulse(guest appearance)
New Avengers(monthly)
Secret War:from the files of Nick Fury(guest star Avengers w/ Logan)
Astonishing X-men(monthly)
X-men(monthly)
Uncanny Xmen(although he is not on this team his daughter is,I will include it)
Wolverine:Soultaker (mini series)

Ok that's it compare for yourselves...NOW who is the comic market saturated with?http://www.statueforum.com/images/smilies/peoples.gif

[Perna]

Yayyyyyyyy for Wolverine.

[MONSTER]

If only he were American instead of Canadian..... :D

[TheGreyOne]

Thank you.

Its just like when people ***** about all the X-Men books on the market, always forgetting to mention the 20 or so Batman family book that clog up the shelves.

Larry... :D

[MiamiLoco]

Yeah, at MegaCon, some guy asked Joe Quesada: "So when are you going to kill Wolverine. He's annoying because he is EVERYWHERE!!" Quesada's response was, "Just look at DC, how many books do Superman and Batman have?"

[Perna]

If only he were American instead of Canadian..... :D
Oh no, your not taking that away from me! :laugh:

[Mad4Busts]

Alright looks like I got some fellow fans who see the "REAL TRUTH"!! thanks guys! :buttrock:

[Collection King 13]

Wolverine Sux! Lucky thing he is Canadian! :eplus2:






J/K :D

[Perna]

I really don't think Wolverine is overused. If you look at DC, which characters are over exposed and I'm not just saying in comics. It's Batman and Superman. It seems DC can't start a project unless these 2 are somehow connected with it.

[Perna]

Wolverine Sux! Lucky thing he is Canadian! :eplus2:






J/K :D

Damn you, Carol. :laugh:

[The Watcher]

Maybe they're both over-exposed. Why not do the same with variant comic book titles and just flood the market?

Oh, sorry, it's already been done.

[Leon]

most readers lean more towards Marvel than to DC, so I think that's why everyone's bashing Wolvie instead of Bats. Both should take a rest for a year (so Wizard can actually have other characters on its cover)

[wktf]

That's me. Not much of a DC reader so, in my world, Wolverine's over exposed. Superman and Batman barely register.

[Babytoxie]

Yeah, at MegaCon, some guy asked Joe Quesada: "So when are you going to kill Wolverine. He's annoying because he is EVERYWHERE!!" Quesada's response was, "Just look at DC, how many books do Superman and Batman have?"

This sort of relates to my response on the other thread... I can understand Superman and Batman having so many books. They've been around since the late '30s, each has a rich history, a huge cast of characters, and are recognized by almost everyone. They are icons of American pop culture. They're really industries unto themselves.

Wolverine has been around since the '70s, has little real history to speak of (sure he has Origin and Weapon X, but what does that really tell us, and how long will it be until Marvel throws us a curve with those stories?), and not much in terms of a supporting cast. I think the biggest flaw with Marvel making Wolverine an established character equivalent to Golden or Silver Age heroes is that there's not much to work with. Seeing Wolvie lead a charge of Silver Age heroes on the cover of a book just makes me ill.

[Sgt.Rock]

The comparison between how many books Batman is in compared to how many Wolverine is in does not work for one reason: there is a Batman movie coming out soon. Of course he is in every book, they want to get the character out there more so they can appeal to non-comic readers during the movie's run in the theatre. I guarentee you that if you look at all the books Wolverine was in when X-men 1 and X-men 2 came out, the list would be much, much larger than Batman's list.

[Mad4Busts]

Come on man....I can go back and get a previews from last year and I BET it would be very close except for the Movie adaptations... :rolleyes2 ....you know what now I am going to do just that...

[TN Reptile]

Ok, first off I've never hated on Wolverine. I don't get DC books so I was only going by what I bought Marvel wise. Like I said Spider-Man is just as bad on overexposure. In the retrospect you have showed, Batman is also just as overexposed, and DC also should cut back just like Marvel.
Sorry for starting some bandwagon, Happy Easter everyone.

[Sgt.Rock]

it would be very close except for the Movie adaptations...

Very well, but if you exclude the Wolverine movie adaptations books, you should exclude the Batman movie adaptation books, which means that the following books from your list would be removed.

Batman:Official Movie Adaptation(1-shot)
Batman the movie and other tales of the Dark Knight(1-shot)
Year one: Scarecrow and Batman(mini series)
Batman secret files 2005(1-shot)

All of these books are here because they deal specifically with the movie, or give non-comic fans history of characters in the movie. Just to confirm all this, I opened up my copy of the April 2005 Previews and checked your list. From your list, here are the titles that are in the Batman section of previews, but BATMAN IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE DESCRIPTION AT ALL.

Pg. 64 - Batgirl #65 (no mention of Batman at all)

Pg. 67 - Robin #139 (he's in Bludhaven now, not Gotham)

Pg. 66 - Catwoman #44 (they mention Hush, but don't say one word about Batman)

Pg. 67 - Nightwing #109 (They mention Black Mask, but not one word about Batman)

Pg. 75 - Birds of Prey #83 (What? Not only is this book not even in the Batman section, there's no mention of him AT ALL)

Pg. 79 - Green Arrow #51 (Again, not in the Batman section, Batman not mentioned at all)


So, why are you lumping in all these books that do not have Batman in them, into a catagory so you can claim that Batman has too many books? I provided the page numbers to all those books, so anyone who wants to check their copy of Previews from April of 2005 can do so.

[Mad4Busts]

Very well, but if you exclude the Wolverine movie adaptations books, you should exclude the Batman movie adaptation books, which means that the following books from your list would be removed.

Batman:Official Movie Adaptation(1-shot)
Batman the movie and other tales of the Dark Knight(1-shot)
Year one: Scarecrow and Batman(mini series)
Batman secret files 2005(1-shot)

All of these books are here because they deal specifically with the movie, or give non-comic fans history of characters in the movie. Just to confirm all this, I opened up my copy of the April 2005 Previews and checked your list. From your list, here are the titles that are in the Batman section of previews, but BATMAN IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE DESCRIPTION AT ALL.

Pg. 64 - Batgirl #65 (no mention of Batman at all)

Pg. 67 - Robin #139 (he's in Bludhaven now, not Gotham)

Pg. 66 - Catwoman #44 (they mention Hush, but don't say one word about Batman)

Pg. 67 - Nightwing #109 (They mention Black Mask, but not one word about Batman)

Pg. 75 - Birds of Prey #83 (What? Not only is this book not even in the Batman section, there's no mention of him AT ALL)

Pg. 79 - Green Arrow #51 (Again, not in the Batman section, Batman not mentioned at all)


So, why are you lumping in all these books that do not have Batman in them, into a catagory so you can claim that Batman has too many books? I provided the page numbers to all those books, so anyone who wants to check their copy of Previews from April of 2005 can do so.


Did you read the descriptions...because Batman is in there....For a fact on Batgirl, Green Arrow, Robin, and the Batman/Scarecrow mini series is not movie based! Secret Files is NOT movie based, Catwoman where there is a HUSH reference there is Batman....Catwoman won't sell unless Bats is making an appearance...

[bomen]

Batman. Wolverine.

I'm reminded of Pedro's wisdom either way:

"eets a sledgehammeeer."

[Mad4Busts]

Ok Sarge here ya go..Dec 2004...

First off Batman has his own section of Previews, does Wolvie?....NO.
Batman
Detective
Batman:Gotham Knights
Batman: Legends of the DK
Batman: The man who Laughs
Gotham Central
Nightwing
Superman/Batman
Green Lantern:Rebirth
JLA
Outsiders
The Batman Strikes
Justice League Unlimited

OK that is 13 books! with Bats in it!
Now for the other side of it.

Ultimate X-men
Wolverine
New Avengers
Uncanny X-men
X-men
X-men:Phoenix Endsong
Jubilee

OK that is 7...and that is almost half of what Batman appears in with NO movie tie ins....case rested :rolleyes2

[Sgt.Rock]

Did you read the descriptions...because Batman is in there....For a fact on Batgirl, Green Arrow, Robin, and the Batman/Scarecrow mini series is not movie based! Secret Files is NOT movie based, Catwoman where there is a HUSH reference there is Batman....Catwoman won't sell unless Bats is making an appearance...

Batgirl Description from Page 64
batgirl needs to know who her mother is - and there's only one persone with that information. Unfortunetly, he's her estranged father as well as one of the world's most notorious killers: David Cain! Don't miss "Father's Day!"
PLEASE SHOW ME THE BATMAN REFERENCE HERE. I MUST BE BLIND BECAUSE YOU SAY IT IS THERE BUT I CANNOT FIND IT.

Nightwing description from page 67.
**** Grayson is living a lie. His mission to break into the heart of Gotham's underworld is about to lead him straight into the heart of evil: the Black Mask. With only his instincts and training, will he be able to keep his cover and his cool? Maybe not, when he finds out how much The Family knows about his past life...
Anyone see a Batman reference? I sure as heck dont.

Robin description from page 67
Hot off "Nightwing: Year One," artists Scott McDaniel and Andy Owens begin a run as the new art team of Robin. Yet another assassin has come to Blüdhaven answering the call of the Penguin. His name is The Catcher, and he's got orders to take out the Boy Wonder with his army of canine killers! Meanwhile, an old face visits the abandoned Louis E. Grieve Memorial High School -- a terrifying old face.
Again, no reference.

Catwoman description from Page 66
Acclaimed writer Will Pfeifer, artist Pete and cover artist Adam Hughes come aboard to steer the feline fatale in an explosive direction. While trying to determine why the East End has remained unaffected by Black Mask following "War Games," Catwoman finds herself presented with a tempting offer from none other than Hush! But her mission isn't what it seems, and she may bring about death on a massive scale.
A hush reference is not a Batman reference. Hush and Batman can be in two different places at once, because as far as I know, they are different people.

Birds of Prey description from page 75
A story tying into The OMAC Project #3. Oracle's out of control, and an eye in the sky is targeting her -- just when Canary and Wildcat, facing a set of legendary assassins, need her most!
I get it! Batman is a legendary assassin! It makes perfect sense now!

Green Arrow description from page 79
Anarky returns in an issue by James Peaty, Eric Battle and Jack Purcell. A bomb kills dozens and spreads terror throughout Green Arrow's hometown. Can Ollie take the mad bomber down before he strikes again?
Okay, now you lost me.

Now, go back to my post and read it VERY CAREFULLY. I said that all of the original titles that should be removed because they are either related to the movie adaptation OR they serve to give a NON-COMIC BOOK FAN SOME BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THESE CHARACTERS BEFORE THEY SEE THE MOVIE. And from my post, how the heck do you divine the statement that Green Arrow, Robin and Batgirl are movie based? I gave you two seperate reasons why 2 seperate groups should be removed from your list, one group because they deal with the movie, the other group because they are not Batman books. Any attempt to muddy those facts is based in the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on.

Now, let's be clear about one thing, I absolutely agree with you about the comparison. DC uses Batman just as much as Marvel uses Wolverine. My only issue with you is that you are screwing with your info to make your argument bigger. Your original list from your first post should have looked like this.


Batman:
Detective Comics
Batman
Batman:Gotham Knights
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight
Batman: Dark Detective
Gotham Central
Superman/Batman
Lex Luthor: Man of Steel
Blood of the Demon
Breach
JLA
Justice League Elite
The OMAC Project
The Batman Strikes
Justice League Unlimited

Wolverine:
Marvel Nemesis
Ultimate X-men
Marvel Knights Spiderman
Wolverine
GLA
The Pulse
New Avengers
Secret War:from the files of Nick Fury
Astonishing X-men
X-men
Uncanny Xmen
Wolverine:Soultaker

Now feel free to post another rolleyes smilie, as they seem to be the crux of your argument.

[SirConor]

This sort of relates to my response on the other thread... I can understand Superman and Batman having so many books. They've been around since the late '30s, each has a rich history, a huge cast of characters, and are recognized by almost everyone. They are icons of American pop culture. They're really industries unto themselves.

Wolverine has been around since the '70s, has little real history to speak of (sure he has Origin and Weapon X, but what does that really tell us, and how long will it be until Marvel throws us a curve with those stories?), and not much in terms of a supporting cast. I think the biggest flaw with Marvel making Wolverine an established character equivalent to Golden or Silver Age heroes is that there's not much to work with. Seeing Wolvie lead a charge of Silver Age heroes on the cover of a book just makes me ill.

I do not buy the argument that simply because Wolverine hasn't been around for many many years he isn't an absolutely great character in his own right. I have a hard time with the "Well if it isnt old it isn't worth a damn" attitude that so many people have. I agree that in MANY MANY instances, the original or early works of these characters will always be unparalleled... but at the same time this is not to say that more modern stuff is simply not capable of being great just because its new (and yes, I admit the great current stuff is rare but its still out there).

[MiamiLoco]

Wow, I'm just surprised that you guys own a previews from a year ago. They are so bulky that I can't WAIT for the month to finish so that I can throw one out. :P

[Tattoo-X]

Wow, I'm just surprised that you guys own a previews from a year ago. They are so bulky that I can't WAIT for the month to finish so that I can throw one out. :P
I can go back at least 5 years.
Not for long though. I've been using them to start fires.

[Tattoo-X]

Same sort of comparison can be made for Superman/Spider-Man.
Those 4 characters make the companies money, so they really push them every where they can.

[Leon]

yeah indeed, flagship titles anyone?

[The Watcher]

Mad4Busts, I sort of disagree with the premise of this thread. The title of the thread implies that a whole lot of people hate Wolverine. Speaking for myself, I don't hate Wolverine, I actually like the character but just feel that Marvel has over-promoted him. I admit that I don't read comic books anymore but it just seems like every time I turn around, there's Wolverine. It gets old.

Again, I don't hate Wolverine or Spider-Man or Bat Man or Superman. I like things in moderation. Just my opinion.

[spider-man]

I don't hate wolverine but he is nowhere near as cool a charachter as Batman.

[Mad4Busts]

Hey I don't have ANY ties...as a matter of fact I don't read Wolverine's title but I do read One of Batmans' ....just trying to show that saying Wolverine is the most overexposed hero is like saying Plan 9 From Outer Space is the worst movie of all time.....stock answer......

oh and Sarge relax a little here these are for you :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2

and this :wink2:

[Babytoxie]

I do not buy the argument that simply because Wolverine hasn't been around for many many years he isn't an absolutely great character in his own right. I have a hard time with the "Well if it isnt old it isn't worth a damn" attitude that so many people have. I agree that in MANY MANY instances, the original or early works of these characters will always be unparalleled... but at the same time this is not to say that more modern stuff is simply not capable of being great just because its new (and yes, I admit the great current stuff is rare but its still out there).

I don't feel that just because it's new, it's no good. That's not my argument. There are plenty of modern characters that I feel are superior to Golden or Silver Age characters. It all depends on how they are constructed and written. If I'm supposed to consider a character as relevant, there'd better be a good origin and supporting story to go with it. But Wolverine has been kept a mystery from the get-go. More and more, stories reveal the clues to his past to be a bunch of red herrings. Even with Origin and Weapon X, I still don't know what to believe. So how can I feel comfortable accepting Wolverine as a great character when, compared to other characters, there's relatively nothing for me to go on?

So here's to seeing Howard the Duck get a new series, and 4 covers every month...

[Bullseye]

Damn is Wolverine still in comics. :banghead: I was hoping i could start collecting comics again soon but i guess not. :) Why doesn't he just settle down find himself a nice women and have a family instead if having those Beserkers. :eplus2:

[madjazz]

I don't have a problem with this premise, and there are good arguments for both sides.

From my standpoint, you've got to be kidding yourself if you think Wolverine and Batman are comparable characters. The person that made the comment about Superman and Spider-man was on the money.

[bat_collector]

I like both characters Batman #1, wolvie #2. So it doesn't matter to me. :)

And anyone who doesn't think Wolverine isn't one of marvels top 5 characters (money making wise) at worst if not top 3 is not getting it. So, of course he's showing up everywhere.

[CKinSD]

If only he were American instead of Canadian..... :D

he is an american dude :) just does not remember... lol

[Babytoxie]

Just to clarify, I do like the character of Wolverine, but not the way he's handled.

I feel that the best treatment Wolverine received in a long while was in Paradise X. Jim Krueger constructed a mind-blowing explanation of where Wolverine came from and what he was. I'm still amazed by it. It works, and it gives Wolverine a firm footing in the history of the Marvel Universe, connecting him to the most unlikely character. So even though those Earth X stories are more of a "What If", I say Marvel should head in that direction.

[JR2]

Hadn't done the count myself so I'm glad someone did. Disputes my answer to a poll elsewhere in this part of the forum.

Can't dispute the facts, but why is it perceived that Wolverine is more overexposed than Batman?

:peoples:

[Mad4Busts]

Hadn't done the count myself so I'm glad someone did. Disputes my answer to a poll elsewhere in this part of the forum.

Can't dispute the facts, but why is it perceived that Wolverine is more overexposed than Batman?

:peoples:


I think it is because most people on this forum read Marvel and not DC...so they don't see the overexposure of the Bats....which is not really overexposure to me because I just read one book of his that way I am not seeing him in EVERY title....

[SirConor]

I don't feel that just because it's new, it's no good. That's not my argument. There are plenty of modern characters that I feel are superior to Golden or Silver Age characters. It all depends on how they are constructed and written. If I'm supposed to consider a character as relevant, there'd better be a good origin and supporting story to go with it. But Wolverine has been kept a mystery from the get-go. More and more, stories reveal the clues to his past to be a bunch of red herrings. Even with Origin and Weapon X, I still don't know what to believe. So how can I feel comfortable accepting Wolverine as a great character when, compared to other characters, there's relatively nothing for me to go on?

So here's to seeing Howard the Duck get a new series, and 4 covers every month...

Hey Tox,

Didn't mean to come across as if I were attacking you personally, but I probably did so I'm sorry. I understand where you're coming from now, this is a good explanation the problem - which surely is not that Wolverine isn't worthy because he's newer. Can't argue with someone's opinion if they don't like the way something is handled. It works for me and I love it, and if it doesn't for you then thats cool too.

[Babytoxie]

Hey Tox,

Didn't mean to come across as if I were attacking you personally, but I probably did so I'm sorry. I understand where you're coming from now, this is a good explanation the problem - which surely is not that Wolverine isn't worthy because he's newer. Can't argue with someone's opinion if they don't like the way something is handled. It works for me and I love it, and if it doesn't for you then thats cool too.

Hey, no prob. I didn't take it that way, but thanks. I figured I just needed to clarify. :)

[Perna]

he is an american dude :) just does not remember... lol
Boooooooooooooooooooooo!

Hey waitaminute! Aren't you originally from Canada?