Kiani regular base situation

[fantasticrour]

I have a regular edition and the base droops. I don't care what ever base I get as a replacement. I don't care about the numbers nor how it looks different from a Lava base. That said, can I get lave base a replacement base on my Regular edition?

[verified]

My regular base is drooping as well. Would be great to hear something more assuring. As long as ill be getting a replacment base i dont mind waiting.

[Davidian]

I'm just excited that things are that much closer to being resolved for the Lava situation. I don't mind waiting on getting my regular base as long as I know I'm being taken care of. Frank and Phillip, you guys are awesome and I salute you both for what you've guys done. I know it's been frustrating on both sides of this nightmare, but as I stated, I am glad that the light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer. Thank you both.

[Phillip]

Hi Nerbane,

I get the impression you took my post as an attack on UK based on your response. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was in Hong Kong at the time I posted and was late for my flight back to the US. So my post needed to be short and quick. I just need to know how much UK knew about doing business in China so I didn't waste his time explaining things he already was aware of.

I will correct one thing in your post. There was no design defect. There was a problem with the resin. The design was fine.

Regarding your overall tone and approach in your post please refer to my response to UK.



Hi UK,

I've been around this forum for a while but certainly not one of the old timers. Yet long enough to know that you have always been very intelligent and had worthwhile posts.

I also appreciate you taking the time to address your concerns. I wish you and I could've had a conversation earlier about this before it had gotten this far.

I also wish you could go with me for a trip to one of the factories. I know you'd come away having a much better understanding for what we were up against trying to make this right.

There is a thing called "FACE", "Saving Face" in China which makes it extremely difficult in situations as this. If you have not heard about this before maybe some of the other forum members can help back me up on this so you understand I'm not making this up.

Lucky the Hong Kong company was extremely helpful in convincing the factory to produce the bases. Without their help we would have nothing.

You can not simply sit across a table with the factory owner and hammer out a solution. They really dislike any kind of confrontation. Period.

Extremely the opposite of how things are done in England or the US.

Some might say take legal action....fat chance that would work. Aspen is not afraid of doing that but it would've been a waste of time and money.

Aspen was really up against an impossible situation and only the most diplomatic approach was going to work. It took forever and now we are faced with the same thing on these regular bases. I know they're related. You know they're related but try convincing the factory. We are working on it. We need them. Not an option to start with a new factory producing these bases. The cost is too great and the time also a factor.

Trust me UK if there was another way we would've taken it.

I've been working in China for over 9 years. It is unlike anything you or I have dealt with in England or the US.

I can tell you many stories of crazy, crazy things. We are really fortunate to be dealing with a better factory.

So bottom line UK we were never letting anything drag. It has just taken this long between communications, testing and production to get us to this point. I have personally be working on this from the beginning. I was never letting anything drag. If you met me you'd know. The Hong Kong company could tell you.

I think you now have a little better idea of what Aspen was up against.

If you have any other questions please let me know and I'll do my best to answer.

Thanks,

Phillip

[animatedUKfan]

Philip and Frank,

As I said on my post #134, I felt there were things that needed to be said, and I'm glad to have gotten them off my chest. I feel that many other collectors with Kiani statues feel as aggrieved as I do.

However, I do appreciate the difficulties Aspen must be encountering whilst endeavouring to sort this out.

Although never dealing with China personally, I am aware of some of the rather unique aspects of the culture and I can appreciate the difficulties that can cause.

I still feel that a faster solution would have been better for customer relations and cheaper for Aspen in the long run, but you say that was not possible - OK, I accept that and we are where we are.

I also think that communication could have been better. I myself had many personal emails to Aspen go unanswered and had to send multiple requests for information (even before this thread started), a complaint echoed by others in this thread.

I take the comments at the end of Frank's posts #135 and #140 to be explicit statements that both the lava and regular statue owners will get replacement bases eventually, I thank you for that commitment.

All I ask now is that you please keep us updated regularly as to what progress is being made.

Go back a couple of years on this forum and you will see I have been a staunch supporter of Aspen. My criticisms are borne of frustration and are not personal, I hope you both understand that.

[frankm]

Fantasticrour,

Sorry, the replacement lava bases only cover the 300 total units that were originally produced. We unfortunately won't have any extras to send out to cover replacements on regular edition bases. We're still working on getting that situation sorted out. Bear with us!

Verified,

Thanks for your patience. We're doing everything we can and hope to hear some good news soon.

Davidian and UKfan,

Thanks for the kinds words and your support. It has been tough but we're doing our best to make things right. It's not always possible for me to hop in here and update as often as I'd like, but I'll make sure to stop by as much as I can so you're not left in the dark!

[d rod]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth about dealing with factories in China.

Anything that you think is common sense, you might as well take out of the equation. While you're doing that, also discard logic and reason. Any problem that you encounter, the factory doesn't want to hear about it. Regardless of the situation, it is not their concern. The stories that I've heard and the things that I've seen, you would say to yourself, "How can that be possible?". Sadly, a lot of things are possible there.

At times, it's not as simple as just saying, make me 300 more of this or that. Never mind the production cost. Going back on a project / work order at times is like pulling teeth, let alone, fix a problem that has occurred.

The options are not plentiful and trying to iron out a problem can just get you thrown out of the factory. Considering that there are not too many options, it's like walking on egg shells. So, if a problem does occur, it can take quite a while to obtain a solution.

That being said, two things need to be done. The producing company should post periodical updates and just state that they will continue to do so in a monthly, bi-weekly basis (some kind of time frame so consumers have an idea when to check back). This means if the update is "there is no update", at least consumers know you're still there and thinking about the problem. Second thing that needs to get done is consumers to become extremely patient. No manufacturer is in the business to piss of customers, deliver faulty products or delay shipment of products.
It's a long process at times and you have to be patient. The laws in the US are not the same as the laws overseas. There are many factors in getting these statues done and none are easy. Companies such as Aspen, Moore, Bowen and Sideshow want to continue to do produce statues and busts but at times it is difficult. A factory might tell you one thing and do another and getting pissed at them only means they keep all your money and throw you out. So, one has to be careful in trying to solve the problem.

The optimal situation is that the manufacturer takes the loss, gets the damaged goods manufactured over again, ships them out asap to the customers and everyone is happy. But, how many hits can one take? And, even if that were to be the case, they can even make that option virtually impossible. Bottom line is, the majority of the collectors have been around long enough that they have a pretty good idea about these situations and delays. It's nothing new that pieces arrive damaged or with some kind of fault. It is also highly unlikely that any license owner requests them to be made that way. So, if both sides puts just a small bit of effort, we might be able to resolve these problems and move on to the next project.

As a collector, I completely understand the frustration of having your money tied up with no place to obtain any type of answer. As a manufacturer, I understand the frustration of trying to solve a problem while communicating with someone that has the communication skill of a gnat. But, as long as the collectors show their patience and manufacturers give timely updates (even if there is nothing to update on), we might be able to ride these problems out.

btw, that wasn't 2 cents, it was closer to $13.47

[risingstar]

It's a shame to hear that these overseas companies can actually choose to keep your money and throw you out, should you dare take exception with one of their subpar products. While I can never claim to be astutely familiar with the "save face" culture, I guess I have a hard time understanding how cheating your clients and misrepresenting your business practice somehow translates into "saving face" or "showing respect" to those who put food on your table.

I have no solututions outside "well, then go elsewhere", however, that's clearly no guarantee that this won't happen again elsewhere, perhaps in an even worse fashion. All this to say that these QC issues seem to have hit just about everyone, though to a greater degree to some than others. Unless something changes, in the end, we all stand to lose as it's to the point now (for me) where I have all but ceased preordering anything. I now need to see the product first prior to committing. Sadly, I am not alone in my lack of faith in what transpires between the prelim pic and the time the product hits the shelves. That number is growing too.

[benhernandez]

Are there no factories in the USA that can produce statues? I understand that labor laws are different out there and its cheaper to probably get them produced over seas than it is here in the US. But I would think that maybe just maybe you are better off paying more and getting it done somewhere where you can file suit for breach of contract or unsatisfactory work.

[d rod]

Originally Posted by benhernandez

Are there no factories in the USA that can produce statues? I understand that labor laws are different out there and its cheaper to probably get them produced over seas than it is here in the US. But I would think that maybe just maybe you are better off paying more and getting it done somewhere where you can file suit for breach of contract or unsatisfactory work.

I do know that there was a factory in the US that a manufacturer tried out. Their final product was horrible, they couldn't fix any of the problems and it ended up being a huge mistake in attempting to use them. You can throw all the lawsuits you want but if they can't do what they are suppose to do, the lawsuit isn't going to get you the product on the shelves.