Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi *spoilers start at post 353*

[Hellboy]

Originally Posted by Luminous

I do appreciate that you're passionate fan. That's actually the root of my disappointment with the film's reception amongst so many fans. I wish we could have all rejoiced. I understand that won't always happen, but the over dramatic anger and outrage from so many have made it so that any who actually enjoyed it have no place to go to talk about the film. Every corner of the internet I go to it's nothing but complaining. And it's not that the number of those who didn't enjoy it outnumber those who did. In fact from what I've seen in either sales, exit polls or forum polls, there seem to be more who thoroughly enjoyed it. But the loud cries of those who feel slighted is deafening and a lot people I've spoken to who loved it simply feel it isn't worth the time or effort to take part in these discussions.

Excellent summation of my feelings and perfectly explains why I’ve limited my discussion on this film and by extension Star Wars films in general.

[Vecchio1]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

I don't even accept this trilogy as canon. I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Agreed!!!!. This thread..."It's a trap!"

Just when I try to forget this movie it pulls me back to piss me off.

[Python]

Originally Posted by Luminous

While I certainly did misinterpret your tone I still don't agree the comment applies in any way.



I mention the picking because you seemingly implied I am debating simply because people don't share my view of the film. I was just explaining that it's the nitpicking that I can't comprehend. People don't express a nitpick of TLJ yet still point out it's simply a nitpick. Instead they use it as a key example as to why the movie was some colossal failure. Again, and I thought I made this clear, those criticisms weren't directed at you specifically. But you seem to think I am debating because people don't share my view. So I simply clarified my position.

I'd also like to point out that just because there are a lot of vocal and angry people complaining about something it doesn't in any way mean there is any truth to it. I could bring in political examples as to how that isn't true but for the sake of keeping the discussion civil and on track I won't. I think you're a smart person. So I'll let you evaluate that statement and see where I'm coming from.

I do appreciate that you're passionate fan. That's actually the root of my disappointment with the film's reception amongst so many fans. I wish we could have all rejoiced. I understand that won't always happen, but the over dramatic anger and outrage from so many have made it so that any who actually enjoyed it have no place to go to talk about the film. Every corner of the internet I go to it's nothing but complaining. And it's not that the number of those who didn't enjoy it outnumber those who did. In fact from what I've seen in either sales, exit polls or forum polls, there seem to be more who thoroughly enjoyed it. But the loud cries of those who feel slighted is deafening and a lot people I've spoken to who loved it simply feel it isn't worth the time or effort to take part in these discussions.

Anyway, sorry you didn't enjoy it. I genuinely wish you enjoyed it as much as I did. Or at very least enough to look forward to the next film in some capacity.

We'll agree to disagree on the first part, I would say that saying Ackbar is famous for looking like a squid and having no real impact on the franchise is a bit of an oversimplification, but again it's a small issue in the grand scheme of things so we shouldn't get hung up on him.

You did make it clear that you weren't talking to me specifically about nitpicking of course, but seeing as I hadn't done such (I didn't even get close although I could have easily) and you were replying to me, I just didn't see why that was brought into the discussion is all, I'm side tracking us again so should have just ignored it, sorry...

I read back a fair bit in the thread and noticed that many people had already made similar comments to mine so I appreciate why you might get getting short with your replies, but people see this at different times and seem to be coming to many of the same conclusion, I didn't mean to simply echo what had been said a hundred times before. I fully understand that a mass opinion or belief in no way has any impact on a truth of course, I mean just look how many billions of people around the world believe in various magic Gods. However, if so many people are coming to the same conclusions regarding a subjective topic such a as movie, there is possibly something in those criticisms, but it is obviously subjective. But again, that doesn't need to affect your opinions at all.

I get what you're saying about most of the discussion being negative. I've been on the other side of this many a time believe me. But this is the internet after all and frankly, it was a pretty disappointing movie (my opinion obviously) So the negativity is unavoidable. I'm not trying to be patronising here, I'm genuinely trying to be helpful as I hate to see a fellow fan getting themselves so worked up and emotionally drained. But if the critisism is genuinely ruining your enthusiasm, you should probably avoid the discussion all together as you do appear to be in a minority and will face a lot of it sadly. Obviously spoiling your love of the movie is not my intention at all, quite the opposite. I'd love to be shouting from the roof tops about how great this movie was of course. But as a huge Star Wars fan, I needed a place to come and vent a little also after finally watching it, just as much as you wanted somewhere to be excited by it. There is no right or wrong opinion on such things. I would have said my little critique and moved on if I wasn't quoted and drawn into a discussion. Try not to take everybodies opinions of it to heart, just as I don't care that most people don't like The Phantom menace... The Duel of fates was awesome and Naboo star fighters are sexy as hell... And what?

Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm making friends with you, or just making things worse. So we'll agree to disagree on TLJ and I won't say much more until I've given it another chance with less expectation. But I will concede that the Praetorian guard fight was really cool! And I'll always look forward to Star wars in some capacity, I may just have to learn to tone down my expectations in future as Star Wars is just different now, or at least it is being made for a different generation of fans and I guess that's okay....

[Luminous]

For the sake of clarity, I am going to break down my responses to each of your comments as carefully as I can. Because it seems to me that my points are being misinterpreted.

Originally Posted by Python

We'll agree to disagree on the first part, I would say that saying Ackbar is famous for like a squid and having no real impact on the franchise is a bit of an oversimplification, but again it's a small issue in the grand scheme of things so we shouldn't get hung up on him.

To be clear, I never said he had little impact on the franchise. I suggested he had little to no impact on the narrative/story. I see his impact on the franchise. It's that of a unique looking character among a vast catalog of visually interesting aliens in the Star Wars saga. It's not a face or voice anyone growing up watching the original trilogy is likely to forget. That said, replace his species with that of a human and what do you have? To me it would have just been another background character. If I'm wrong I'd genuinely like to know what makes his performance or actions so unforgettable. Because I legitimately don't see what it is.

You did make it clear that you weren't talking to me specifically about nitpicking of course, but seeing as I hadn't done such (I didn't even get close although I could have easily) and you were replying to me, I just didn't see why that was brought into the discussion is all, I'm side tracking us again so should have just ignored it, sorry...

You were one of the people to recently bring up how Ackbar was handled. You and I began a dialogue regarding Ackbar. I find the Ackbar criticism in TLJ in general a nitpick. Ergo...

I read back a fair bit in the thread and noticed that many people had already made similar comments to mine so I appreciate why you might get getting short with your replies, but people see this at different times and seem to be coming to many of the same conclusion, I didn't mean to simply echo what had been said a hundred times before.

If I was getting short with you it didn't have anything to do with the repetition of any criticism. Like I said before, it is simply frustrating to not be able to discuss this movie in a positive manner anywhere. If you noticed me getting short with others it's most likely for the same reason but I suspect (with certain individuals) it was actually annoyance with what I considered to be extremely illogical or selfish viewpoints.

I fully understand that a mass opinion or belief in no way has any impact on a truth of course, I mean just look how many billions of people around the world believe in various magic Gods. However, if so many people are coming to the same conclusions regarding a subjective topic such a as movie, there is possibly something in those criticisms, but it is obviously subjective. But again, that doesn't need to affect your opinions at all.

The same could be said for all those who feel their positive comments on the film are being drowned or lost in the mass hysteria against the film. There are a large number of people far less stubborn than myself who have made the healthier (arguably smarter) choice to simply not bother having these debates. *cough*Hellboy*cough*

I get what you're saying about most of the discussion being negative. I've been on the other side of this many a time believe me. But this is the internet after all and frankly, it was a pretty disappointing movie (my opinion obviously) So the negativity is unavoidable. I'm not trying to be patronising here, I'm genuinely trying to be helpful as I hate to see a fellow fan getting themselves so worked up and emotionally drained. But if the critisism is genuinely ruining your enthusiasm, you should probably avoid the discussion all together as you do appear to be in a minority and will face a lot of it sadly.

I appreciate your concern, but don't confuse general annoyance with some sort of emotional reaction to negative criticism towards the material. It doesn't matter what the topic is, when I see something that simply doesn't make sense I have hard time not speaking my mind. You could say I should simply avoid the internet, but c'mon... that ain't happening. And it isn't criticism that's ruining my enthusiasm for this franchise, it's the mob like mentality to sh!t on this movie, it's creators, and the company behind it that irritates me to no end. Again, I am not suggesting you or those who did not enjoy it automatically count among said mob. But the simple truth is that it has become "cool" to hate everything about this film. People aren't being objective with their negative comments. They don't bother to use consideration in their criticisms. Everything is "me, me, me, this is what I want". I simply have zero tolerance and no respect for such mentality. Once more, I don't consider you among said people. You've voiced your criticisms fairly and reiterated they are from your viewpoint.

Obviously spoiling your love of the movie is not my intention at all, quite the opposite. I'd love to be shouting from the roof tops about how great this movie was of course. But as a huge Star Wars fan, I needed a place to come and vent a little also after finally watching it, just as much as you wanted somewhere to be excited by it. There is no right or wrong opinion on such things. I would have said my little critique and moved on if I wasn't quoted and drawn into a discussion. Try not to take everybodies opinions of it to heart, just as I don't care that most people don't like The Phantom menace... The Duel of fates was awesome and Naboo star fighters are sexy as hell... And what?

Believe me, no one's comments or opinions have any impact on my enjoyment of these films. Again, I simply wanted to rejoice with like minded fans. My disappointment is in my inability to discuss the film in any sort of meaningful way thanks to how discussions surrounding it have been going. On that same coin you and others can naturally voice concerns and criticisms. However, way more often than not the word criticism has been merely a guise for inconsiderate, biased, and misguided viewpoints. Also, I never quoted you nor addressed you specifically with regards to this whole Ackbar thing. I made a general statement about the Ackbar criticism in TLJ. It was at that point that you addressed me.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm making friends with you, or just making things worse. So we'll agree to disagree on TLJ and I won't say much more until I've given it another chance with less expectation. But I will concede that the Praetorian guard fight was really cool! And I'll always look forward to Star wars in some capacity, I may just have to learn to tone down my expectations in future as Star Wars is just different now, or at least it is being made for a different generation of fans and I guess that's okay....

I think you're a smart dude and haven't taken anything you've said personally. Any mix up there may have been I am attributing to the common occurrence of misinterpretation of the written format. I know a few people who don't share my enthusiasm for this film whose I opinion I still very much respect. Happy to count you among them. Glad you enjoyed some elements of the film. Absolutely love that throne room scene.

[Python]

Not to start arguments all over again. Those who love this movie can ignore this post.

Those who like me, were pretty disappointed, might be very interested in this. This guy is totally re-editing the movie and plans to release it for free once he's finished. It's a big task and he only has so much footage to work with, but he's already made some pretty decent changes imo. It's worth a look if you didn't enjoy TLJ, but don't wish to completely try and forget about it. Just be aware that he swears a little...

Oh and he's bringing Ackbar back!



Here's a few select video "fixes" to give you an idea, he has more on his channel that you can look up if you enjoy these....


Leia "poppins" scene fixed..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq57WLWAqU8&t=1s


Opening scene fixed (Hux made less of a joke)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozFLsbKKAoE


Ackbar is back and Holdo being ridiculous makes a little more sense now (rough concept)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMsD2zWwrqo&t=1s


Luke mourns Han...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_1Q6Cbl0o
Revised (and better version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PENIlN6CXk

[Hanky Panky]

Originally Posted by Luminous

If I'm wrong I'd genuinely like to know what makes his performance or actions so unforgettable. Because I legitimately don't see what it is.

Unforgettable in terms of his performance? I would implore you to watch ROTJ again to jog your memory.

His interplay and dialogue with Lando is just classic and essential to the build up and debate with the tactics on how to attack the Death Star.

Species and look aside, he has an almost General Patton like leadership role that all viewers are subconsciously rooting for, since the stakes are so high and the medical frigates and other ships are being decimated. It makes his dynamics with Lando all the more compelling.

For his death to be treated so inconsequential was a complete let down. I was shocked by the sudden demise. It was an minor but significant oversight in TLJ by Rian.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Hanky Panky

Unforgettable in terms of his performance? I would implore you to watch ROTJ again to jog your memory.

His interplay and dialogue with Lando is just classic and essential to the build up and debate with the tactics on how to attack the Death Star.

Species and look aside, he has an almost General Patton like leadership role that all viewers are subconsciously rooting for, since the stakes are so high and the medical frigates and other ships are being decimated. It makes his dynamics with Lando all the more compelling.

For his death to be treated so inconsequential was a complete let down. I was shocked by the sudden demise. It was an minor but significant oversight in TLJ by Rian.

I've seen the movie plenty of times. Lando is the one who realizes the shields are still up. It's Lando who implores the Rebellion to give Han more time. And it's Lando who realizes they stand a better chance of surviving if they maneuver the fleet closer to the Star Destroyers. Ackbar was just placed there to give Lando someone to play off. Like I said, Ackbar's role could have been done by any background character. Heck, you could remove him from the film completely and had Lando say the same things to Nien Nunb and it would have played out the same way.

[galactus]

Originally Posted by Luminous

I've seen the movie plenty of times. Lando is the one who realizes the shields are still up. It's Lando who implores the Rebellion to give Han more time. And it's Lando who realizes they stand a better chance of surviving if they maneuver the fleet closer to the Star Destroyers. Ackbar was just placed there to give Lando someone to play off. Like I said, Ackbar's role could have been done by any background character. Heck, you could remove him from the film completely and had Lando say the same things to Nien Nunb and it would have played out the same way.

The same can be said for Han, Leia and Luke in the new films, which is why many of us hate these films.

[qz33]

Originally Posted by galactus

The same can be said for Han, Leia and Luke in the new films, which is why many of us hate these films.

I definitely think Disney missed the opportunity to make something much more meaningful by downplaying the connected family aspect of these movies.
It's like they were too afraid to make the movies more about the original trilogy's cast but people haven't latched onto the new characters.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by galactus

The same can be said for Han, Leia and Luke in the new films, which is why many of us hate these films.

Ok, I'll bite. Care to elaborate?