Prime 1 Studio: Alien - Big Chap

[MASTERSAFARA]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

You as collector should know, this is not true. We lose money when decide to issue a full refund for product you are not happy with (whatever reason), bcs return (and sometimes both shipments) will be at the customer's expense. And those cost are high and will never come down again. We are at the wrong end of the stick.

Originally Posted by Python

Sure, but that's very easy to say now. At the time (Not very long ago at all) It was a case of keep it or go without entirely as there was only a small run and they were all long gone. This statue is incredible and most of us decided to keep them with their flaws rather than miss out entirely. Fortunately mine are minor, a broken nail here, a few scuffs here and there, some people had some much larger issues and will rightly be feeling very hard done by now.




I actually like to think I wouldn't, but maybe I'm weaker than that. I suspect we may well find out soon. For the record, I don't actually blame anybody at all for ordering these, I probably would too if I hadn't managed to secure one of the last few. I just think it's really shady on Prime 1's part that people are even in a position to buy these. Do you not agree that the best solution for all would just be to announce all variants at the same time and either stick to an ES number or don't bother with one at all?

Originally Posted by Blade3327

Think not bothering with an ES would be best. I can see why they wouldn't want to announce all variants, reissues, etc. from the very beginning as it could hurt business (and they probably want a decent number of sales on the first run in case that's all there is), but if there's no ES, at least customers would be fully aware of the possibility that there could be more later. In other words, what Hot Toys does.

I don?t think this 10th anniversary edition, let?s call it, was in their plans at the time. This should never have been rereleased since the original was given an edition size and slightly changing the base does not justify that.

[Blade3327]

Originally Posted by qz33

You are one of the extremely few people here to ever recognize what these things are made of and go against common ignorance er I mean "sense". Man where have you been.

I come from the Godzilla collecting world, where there are a lot of giant figures made of different vinyls and resins. Some of the vinyl ones are nearly indistinguishable from their resin counterparts -- with a good paintjob, they have the presence of statues -- but you pick them up and it's the strangest thing, light as a feather. After that, you start questioning what these things are made of and where the money goes.

I'm also a digital sculptor and was curious about starting my own collectible business at one point, but talking to other artists, owners of failed companies, and reading posts like Faken's convinced me it's not worth the trouble in the current year. Insight on resin compounds is still helpful for personal 3D printing and I'd love to print large-scale stuff like this.

Originally Posted by qz33

One reason manufacturers prefer polystone is it makes the production pieces less likely to accurately recast.
Somewhere along the 1-2K, 3K plus mark this stuff starts to matter. People see these an initial investment- at least enough to preserve a majority of the original purchase price. Ever tried to sell a chipped statue on eBay for 1K? It don't go so good.

Yeah polystone can be hard to break with a hammer while also easily broken on the resell trip then what are you left with?
Statistically these things and the packaging are designed to barely make the original sale.
People moan when Prime 1 offers 10% to keep a broken statue -guess why they do this? Yeah high quality polystone the same stuff seasonal dioramas and little dwarf houses at Michaels are made of.

usually with PVC the ES has to be huge to justify the expense of the metal molds required.

Ooh, got any more info on PVC? I was under the impression it was a cheap material, but you're saying the molds make it expensive?



Faken (a former reviewer who ran PredatorStuff and now works at PureArts) was kind enough to share some insight on polystone vs other resins in the PureArts Batman '89 thread:

http://www.statueforum.com/showpost....6&postcount=46

Also gave some examples as to why collectible costs have gotten so high:

http://www.statueforum.com/showpost....4&postcount=34

Really great posts, I think any statue collector ought to give them a read.

[JAWS]

Originally Posted by Blade3327

Thinking about the situation more. It's true that some collectors would rather wait for a sale if there's no sense of urgency. But there are those who really do value the rarity of these things. To them, the rarity not only creates urgency to buy, but makes the piece worth owning even if they have no intention of reselling.

Anyone who feels that way, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is: you've got a statue in front of you, you think it's overpriced, there are some elements you're not crazy about, but the clincher -- the factor that makes those other issues digestible -- is the fact that it has a low ES. In other words, you wouldn't buy the piece on its own merit, but because fewer people can own this overpriced piece you're not fully committed to, that makes it feel better to commit? Because at least it's hard to find?

Call me new-agey, but I just don't understand that approach. That's something I got out of my system fairly early in my collecting journey because I realized how much money I was wasting with it. My views these days are admittedly more cynical and somewhat detached (in the sense that I can separate what a piece means to me from the company that made it), but I've got a better relationship with my collection and my wallet to show for it.

Im in both camps. LOL

My main thing is that I want a great ststue. I dont worry as much about the rarity.

But then if I get said great piece and the ES is low. Bonus points. There is something nice about knowing you are 1 or 200 that own something. That you are part of a club.


I think the main issues here are this

1. Prime 1 never said there would be a future release. They called it a limited edition. They should have said Limited edition base and well with a re-release of the piece without the wall and a different base coming soon at a lower price.

2. The piece was packed poorly and they did not offer replaceable parts for all those that received broken pieces.

3. They still wont let those with broken piece get a replacement.

4. The new ones will probably be packed better and thus allowing reselling to be easier if that is something that has to be done.


Me I feel bad for those that wanted replacements and just took the partial refund. They lived with the flaws knowing they were part of the "club" Of course they still are. Its just the Wall and base club lol



I love the piece. Its going nowhere accept to my oldest son when I finally tire of it or die.

[The SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by Blade3327

Thinking about the situation more. It's true that some collectors would rather wait for a sale if there's no sense of urgency. But there are those who really do value the rarity of these things. To them, the rarity not only creates urgency to buy, but makes the piece worth owning even if they have no intention of reselling.

Anyone who feels that way, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is: you've got a statue in front of you, you think it's overpriced, there are some elements you're not crazy about, but the clincher -- the factor that makes those other issues digestible -- is the fact that it has a low ES. In other words, you wouldn't buy the piece on its own merit, but because fewer people can own this overpriced piece you're not fully committed to, that makes it feel better to commit? Because at least it's hard to find?

Call me new-agey, but I just don't understand that approach. That's something I got out of my system fairly early in my collecting journey because I realized how much money I was wasting with it. My views these days are admittedly more cynical and somewhat detached (in the sense that I can separate what a piece means to me from the company that made it), but I've got a better relationship with my collection and my wallet to show for it.

Nice discussion you cooked up here, blade



I think there have only been two statues i bought that i was on the fence, but the low ES and the High Demand of the statue made me pull the trigger. They were the First Friday the 13th Part 3 PF EX and the Freddy Krueger Fred in Your Head Diorama EX. The EX Jason was pretty limited 300 or so, and the Fred in Your Head Diorama was limited to 150 for the EX.

It was a memorable PO process for the Jason, Black Friday 2010 i think, it was selling like hot cakes. i wasn't gonna get it because i wasn't too crazy about it, i fell asleep...then i woke up saw the RED LOW QUANTITY REMAINING and i PO'd because i said holy hell this is gonna be gone.

I sold both because i didn't really value them on my shelves that much. I made good money on both pieces, mainly due to the very low ES and someone wanted them bad.

i basically keep EVERYTHING i buy these days. If im buying it, it's to satisfy some sort of a want that i have created through some strange reasoning on why it "makes sense" on why i need to add it to the collection.

[pau123]

I still haven't recieved my Big Chap, and P1 already released another po hahahaha. I mean with the Transformer optimus, at least they waited say 8 yr anniversary before they re release it, but with a different pose and base etc.

[Xenoburger]

Originally Posted by Python

I actually like to think I wouldn't, but maybe I'm weaker than that. I suspect we may well find out soon.

Well you should, and you deserve it.

For the record, I don't actually blame anybody at all for ordering these, I probably would too if I hadn't managed to secure one of the last few. I just think it's really shady on Prime 1's part that people are even in a position to buy these. Do you not agree that the best solution for all would just be to announce all variants at the same time and either stick to an ES number or don't bother with one at all?

Yes. I think the situation could and should have been handled better. But, ultimately, I think the pros outweigh the cons here quite a bit.

If anyone is betting on the possibility of reselling one of Prime 1's statues at a later date for a profit, that gamble is solely on them.

My opinion on this is not a way of praising Prime 1 for the record. I definitely don't think they have good intentions with this. Or anything.

The fact that they have the balls to re-release this without granting people replacement parts for the original release is something that I find disgusting. Regardless of a potential re-release, replacement parts should always be available for defected statues, or statues damaged in shipping.

Originally Posted by Blade3327

Think not bothering with an ES would be best. I can see why they wouldn't want to announce all variants, reissues, etc. from the very beginning as it could hurt business (and they probably want a decent number of sales on the first run in case that's all there is), but if there's no ES, at least customers would be fully aware of the possibility that there could be more later. In other words, what Hot Toys does.

Agreed

[Xenoburger]

Originally Posted by Blade3327

Thinking about the situation more. It's true that some collectors would rather wait for a sale if there's no sense of urgency. But there are those who really do value the rarity of these things. To them, the rarity not only creates urgency to buy, but makes the piece worth owning even if they have no intention of reselling.

Anyone who feels that way, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is: you've got a statue in front of you, you think it's overpriced, there are some elements you're not crazy about, but the clincher -- the factor that makes those other issues digestible -- is the fact that it has a low ES. In other words, you wouldn't buy the piece on its own merit, but because fewer people can own this overpriced piece you're not fully committed to, that makes it feel better to commit? Because at least it's hard to find?

Call me new-agey, but I just don't understand that approach. That's something I got out of my system fairly early in my collecting journey because I realized how much money I was wasting with it. My views these days are admittedly more cynical and somewhat detached (in the sense that I can separate what a piece means to me from the company that made it), but I've got a better relationship with my collection and my wallet to show for it.

Originally Posted by Blade3327

That's another problem. Many collectors have this idea that weight = quality. It doesn't. Polystone is cheaper, more brittle, and doesn't take as much detail as purer resins. Even PVC can be more reliable from both a durability and an aesthetic standpoint.

But the idea of producing a light-weight statue, especially in PVC, is sacrilege. People would rather have something that weighs a ton, shatters when it falls, and chips when you so much as breathe on it.

Imagine if this Big Chap statue were made of PVC with metal support rods to prevent sagging. Same incredible sculpt, same great paintjob, even the same ES, but with a weight that could be supported by any hard surface and an $800 price tag. How would that do on the market? I know Medicom has a 23" vinyl Alien statue on Sideshow right now that's been on sale for $725 for several months, but the sculpt isn't nearly as good as this and the paint is terrible.

Originally Posted by Blade3327

This is what I'm talking about, though. You feel like it, but are you? The heaviness is caused by stone additives. It's a form of dilution that makes the material cheaper than purer resins. It chips more easily and doesn't retain as much detail as other resins or even plastic. You're saying you favor a statue's weight -- on the rare occasion you pick it up -- over fine details, durability, and the true value of the materials used?

What if they used a purer resin and charged $2000 instead of $1700, but the weight would drop from 60 lbs to 20 or 30. More expensive to reflect the higher-quality material, but you lose some of the weight.

I'm genuinely curious where people land on this stuff.

Originally Posted by Blade3327

I come from the Godzilla collecting world, where there are a lot of giant figures made of different vinyls and resins. Some of the vinyl ones are nearly indistinguishable from their resin counterparts -- with a good paintjob, they have the presence of statues -- but you pick them up and it's the strangest thing, light as a feather. After that, you start questioning what these things are made of and where the money goes.

I'm also a digital sculptor and was curious about starting my own collectible business at one point, but talking to other artists, owners of failed companies, and reading posts like Faken's convinced me it's not worth the trouble in the current year. Insight on resin compounds is still helpful for personal 3D printing and I'd love to print large-scale stuff like this.

Great posts.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by MASTERSAFARA

I don?t think this 10th anniversary edition, let?s call it, was in their plans at the time. This should never have been rereleased since the original was given an edition size and slightly changing the base does not justify that.

Fully agree. Too obvious and too soon.

Originally Posted by JAWS

Im in both camps. LOL

My main thing is that I want a great statue. I dont worry as much about the rarity.

But then if I get said great piece and the ES is low. Bonus points. There is something nice about knowing you are 1 or 200 that own something. That you are part of a club.

I think the main issues here are this

1. Prime 1 never said there would be a future release. They called it a limited edition. They should have said Limited edition base and well with a re-release of the piece without the wall and a different base coming soon at a lower price.

2. The piece was packed poorly and they did not offer replaceable parts for all those that received broken pieces.

3. They still wont let those with broken piece get a replacement.

4. The new ones will probably be packed better and thus allowing reselling to be easier if that is something that has to be done.


Me I feel bad for those that wanted replacements and just took the partial refund. They lived with the flaws knowing they were part of the "club" Of course they still are. Its just the Wall and base club lol

I love the piece. Its going nowhere accept to my oldest son when I finally tire of it or die.

(don't have this or the approx 600 re-releases) but feel the same way.

Man you're hard, punch everyone under the chin with brutal joke.
"Its just the Wall and base club lol"

[The SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by 67L88Stingray

That's not the point, it lessens the hobby as a whole. Limited means just that, not "limited till we need to release more". Just removing the wall and releasing months after the previous one is incredibly cheap and lazy. It will make collectors weary of dropping this kind of money in the future and may be a short-term win for them, but a long-term blunder when their rep is already becoming suspect.

there we go Stingy!

[The SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by Blade3327

This is what I'm talking about, though. You feel like it, but are you? The heaviness is caused by stone additives. It's a form of dilution that makes the material cheaper than purer resins. It chips more easily and doesn't retain as much detail as other resins or even plastic. You're saying you favor a statue's weight -- on the rare occasion you pick it up -- over fine details, durability, and the true value of the materials used?

What if they used a purer resin and charged $2000 instead of $1700, but the weight would drop from 60 lbs to 20 or 30. More expensive to reflect the higher-quality material, but you lose some of the weight.

I'm genuinely curious where people land on this stuff.

i like some weight to my statues.

i've buying up and building a bunch of digitally printed models. Some really great sculpts, but they are light as a feather. I filled them with sand to give them weight. It's nice to have them feel heavier, but while on display it makes zero difference, but i absolutely prefer a statue with weight as opposed to something that is almost weightless. goes back to the Jurassic Park quote from this scene:

[IMG][/IMG]

But giant statues that are 3 feet tall and weigh 75-100 pounds are far beyond the threshold of having nice weight to them.