Who Amongst Us Isn't an Asshole

[marvelboi77]

Originally Posted by Rocket

This, like Leroy, I gotta strongly agree with also

See that if you hang around long enough, even I am right once and a while.

[logan1478]

wow, this has become a very interesting thread in a very short time...reading everything over, it seems to be a little bit of overreacting on one side, and a little bit of miscommunication on the other. However, I would have no qualms about commissioning Tim Fischer art in the future, and certainly will be looking at those e-bay auctions over the next few days. And if Batfan is gone, I will definitely miss the constant reminder of the 100s of pieces he has in the queue, or having to beat him to the punch when ordering my 1 commission before his 20 He does make this forum interesting

[Rocket]

Originally Posted by marvelboi77

See that if you hang around long enough, even I am right once and a while.

[galactus]

Originally Posted by marvelboi77

See that if you hang around long enough, even I am right once and a while.

True, I've been on this forum since the beginning and you HAVE been right once

[Rocket]

Originally Posted by marvelboi77

See that if you hang around long enough, even I am right once and a while.

Originally Posted by galactus

True, I've been on this forum since the beginning and you HAVE been right once

Doesn't the quoted post make twice?

[galactus]

Originally Posted by Rocket

Doesn't the quoted post make twice?

Yes, now Mike has been right twice!

[predaking007]

Originally Posted by galactus

It still boggles my mind that people are shocked by Tim's putting HIS artwork on ebay. Lee very clearly stated in his first post that he emailed Tim to say he NO LONGER WANTED THE ARTWORK. Can someone please explain to me WHY Tim shouldn't be able to do as he pleases with the artwork after that?

While you're at it, please explain how a deposit placed on artwork, which is completed and approved by the purchaser, does not entitle the artist to payment for his time and effort?

Tim was still in possession of Lee's money; therefore, Lee still had ownership of the pieces Tim did for him. Lee didn't give up the pieces for free, he requested to return the goods to the seller for a refund. It can be asserted that Lee received no assurances that he would get a refund or anything from the artist. By putting the items on ebay before refunding or even notifying Lee, all Tim did was make the situation worse.

And normally, a deposit is non-refundable to avoid problems similar to this case. A shrewd artist would point this out before any agreement is made. Some popular artists don't care because they can sell it to the next person in line.

[marvelboi77]

I was walking the dog and was thinking about what Mark said about client vs. patron?

I don't know what Mark's finances are or what comic companies pay, but Mark is a different animal. Maybe Sideshow gives him $25,000 for a design of a statue and to make a print plus a percentage of sales. But most comic artists are not in this boat.

From my personal experience with one of the top 5 artist in the industry. At $600 a full figure pencil that he can complete 4 a night at each convention, that is $2400. Most comic artists take a day or more to draw one page. The highest selling comic at 100,000 copies equals $300,000 total and half that goes to comic stores. I would imagine that a comic artists that is at the top gets around $10,000-$15,000 a book. Maybe Jim Lee gets $25,000. So artists are making less then $1000 a day at their page rate. I'm not counting original art sales that again are paid for by the patron. I think $2400 a night that is probably under the table for 4-6 hrs of work is a lot more money then Marvel pays. These top artists are asking for $500-$800 for a full figure now. Ed Benes is charging $700 for a full figure on 11x14, I think anyone would say that is really good money.

I think that's where the problem lies. These artists are not giving away anything for free and we are working hard for our money and want to be treated with respect and dignity. It is now really becoming clear on why we are having problems. When an artists takes my $500 they are looking at it as a favor and it's work to be gotten around to after all other work, life and any other thing that comes along. I'm looking at it like I spent time at work away from my family busting my ass making it and I'm getting this piece of art instead of taking a vacation, buying concert tickets for me and my partner or other things. I'm expected to wait while the artists breaks their commitment and I get to witness them throwing it my face by seeing them on twitter, conventions, plays and other things, while they have already spent and enjoyed my money.

That's the thing artists are not business men their artists and this is becoming a big problem.

[greenjeans1978]

Originally Posted by marvelboi77

Here is where I gotta disagree with you. We the patrons are paying for art ahead of time in most cases. It seems like it is the norm now for the artists to give a time line of a few months and then it goes on for years and no art. I'm sorry but when your playing video games, having time with your family, going on vacations, staring in local plays, making your sketch book, drawing at conventions etc, and sitting on my money as a patron I have a problem with that.

It cuts both ways.

If an artist takes your money and promises the work will be done within a certain time frame, and then proceeds to leave you hanging for God knows how long, yes, that is irresponsible and unprofessional. I've been there and was lucky to get a refund from the guilty party. So yes, the artist is obligated to make good on their promises.

However, expecting an artist to sacrifice their lives and/or other commitments just to cater to you and only you with no consideration for how fast they can draw or how much work they can take on at any given time ("I got on your commission list, so you owe me 20 or 30 pieces right off the bat!") is equally wrongheaded and irresponsible. So, too, is being totally unwilling to compromise on a commission deal where one out of four drawings didn't pan out but the other three did.

There has to be a meeting in the middle. The artist has to be responsible and timely, yes. But the customer has to treat the artist as a human being with his or her own needs and considerations, not as a robot.

[marvelboi77]

Looks like Tim has joined the forum, I knew that wouldn't take long. Sometimes we think that this is our place on the internet, but their is a always someone to rat you out.