Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - SPOILER Thread

[built2shred]

The Music was a really good in the prequels and the overall story was ok up until Anakin went Dark Side, Anakin becoming Sith was more like a light switch being thrown then a journey. IMO the prequels should of been all about Anakins fall to the Dark Side... It should of had a deeper story then him just wanting to learn how to keep Padme alive longer and him willing to kill children to do that...

As for JJ Abrams, it's kind of a mix bag, I like most of the stuff he does but I hated the end story with TFA where they created a Death Star Planet, it was just ridiculous.... other then that I enjoyed TFA....

[built2shred]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I grew up with the OT. They shaped a lot of my life in terms of interests, hobbies and personal tastes in film. As a fan of SW in all forms I was thrilled when the PT was announced. Seeing things onscreen, that up until that point that had only been talked about, was a dream come true.

A lot of the flaws in the PT I see in the OT as well. Outside of Empire I don't think any of these films are perfect. The way you view the Saga depends greatly on when you were exposed to them and which Trilogy you grew up with. They're a fantastic escape that appeals to the imaginations of the young probably more than anyone else. Ask the generation that grew up with the PT which they prefer and you'll find many enjoy them more than the OT. Expose someone to the Saga for the first time, yes these people actually exist, and you might be shocked that they too prefer some of the PT entires to the OT as well.

I firmly believe a lot of the neck-bearded OT purist fanboys that get off on bashing the Prequels and Lucas for raping their childhood are just mad the Saga didn't grow up with them. Part of me feels sorry for them that they can't take themselves back to the mindset they had as a kid and at least enjoy aspects of the PT. Instead they continue to view the OT through rose colored glasses giving the flaws in those films a pass while calling them out in the PT.

Yeah the OT has it's own flaws but what made the OT great was the actors, they brought a lot of personality to the characters especially Harrison Ford & Carrie Fisher... We really didn't get that in the Prequels as a lot of the acting was very stiff and dry, although it did get better in Revenge of the Sith...

[Hellboy]

Originally Posted by built2shred

IMO the prequels should of been all about Anakins fall to the Dark Side... It should of had a deeper story then him just wanting to learn how to keep Padme alive longer and him willing to kill children to do that...

While I agree the actual transformation/turn could've been handled better, I think a lot of Anakin's struggle with loss/attachment and his inability to embrace the Jedi Code was laid out well through all 3 films up until that point. Starting with the separation from his mother, the Council denying him training due to his age, hiding his relationship with Palme as if it was something to be ashamed of, the eventual death of his mother due to his responsibilities to the Jedi, followed by the pattern of distrust instilled by the Jedi Council and culminating with Palpatine's influence/manipulation through the majority of his life.

The moment of his transformation felt like a light switch being flipped because it was a tipping point. As some on the Jedi Council suspected the fact that he was the chosen one didn't mean he had the strength to overcome all of the weaknesses that had been instilled in him in his youth reaffirming why the Jedi require training to begin at such a young age. A plot thread that started in the OT and culminated in this one moment. I also think you have to factor in the immense power/influence of the Dark Side of the Force poisoning his mind in his greatest moment of weakness. Something that isn't physical and only talked about up until this point so it's hard to illustrate. His deplorable actions after taking up the mantle of Darth Vader just continued to push him further into the abyss, twisting his logic and completing the transformation. I think when you look at it as a whole it works. If you isolate the actual moment without factoring in all of the variables it can certainly appear his actual turn is without merit.

[qz33]

Originally Posted by built2shred

Yeah the OT has it's own flaws but what made the OT great was the actors, they brought a lot of personality to the characters especially Harrison Ford & Carrie Fisher... We really didn't get that in the Prequels as a lot of the acting was very stiff and dry, although it did get better in Revenge of the Sith...

I don't think it was so much the credit of the actors as the characters themselves, editing, and advice. Just younger, more modern characters.

Most people would rather envision themselves as a Han Solo than a stiff Jedi that never gets laid...

[Hellboy]

Originally Posted by built2shred

Yeah the OT has it's own flaws but what made the OT great was the actors, they brought a lot of personality to the characters especially Harrison Ford & Carrie Fisher... We really didn't get that in the Prequels as a lot of the acting was very stiff and dry, although it did get better in Revenge of the Sith...

I thought the actors were every bit as strong in the PT. Despite some of the weakness in the dialog (which was the real problem, not the acting IMO) Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor and Christoper Lee were all as good, if not better, than their OT counterparts.

[qz33]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I thought the actors were every bit as strong in the PT. Despite some of the weakness in the dialog (which was the real problem, not the acting IMO) Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor and Christoper Lee were all as good, if not better, than their OT counterparts.

I think the prequels lacked necessary depth for what was being attempted.

Seems like by Revenge of the Sith it was like "whoops erm better get this finished and turned in before the deadline."

[Hellboy]

Originally Posted by qz33

I think the prequels lacked necessary depth for what was being attempted.

Seems like by Revenge of the Sith it was like "whoops erm better get this finished and turned in before the deadline."

I didn't feel that way, but I can certainly see how somebody might. I think the span of time and the amount of ground covered between Episodes I and III contributed to this. By comparison the time between Episodes IV-VI was less than half allowing it to flow better. There was enough material in the PT to fill six films.

[samhain81]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

While I agree the actual transformation/turn could've been handled better, I think a lot of Anakin's struggle with loss/attachment and his inability to embrace the Jedi Code was laid out well through all 3 films up until that point. Starting with the separation from his mother, the Council denying him training due to his age, hiding his relationship with Palme as if it was something to be ashamed of, the eventual death of his mother due to his responsibilities to the Jedi, followed by the pattern of distrust instilled by the Jedi Council and culminating with Palpatine's influence/manipulation through the majority of his life.

The moment of his transformation felt like a light switch being flipped because it was a tipping point. As some on the Jedi Council suspected the fact that he was the chosen one didn't mean he had the strength to overcome all of the weaknesses that had been instilled in him in his youth reaffirming why the Jedi require training to begin at such a young age. A plot thread that started in the OT and culminated in this one moment. I also think you have to factor in the immense power/influence of the Dark Side of the Force poisoning his mind in his greatest moment of weakness. Something that isn't physical and only talked about up until this point so it's hard to illustrate. His deplorable actions after taking up the mantle of Darth Vader just continued to push him further into the abyss, twisting his logic and completing the transformation. I think when you look at it as a whole it works. If you isolate the actual moment without factoring in all of the variables it can certainly appear his actual turn is without merit.

Perfect summation in my opinion.

[built2shred]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

While I agree the actual transformation/turn could've been handled better, I think a lot of Anakin's struggle with loss/attachment and his inability to embrace the Jedi Code was laid out well through all 3 films up until that point. Starting with the separation from his mother, the Council denying him training due to his age, hiding his relationship with Palme as if it was something to be ashamed of, the eventual death of his mother due to his responsibilities to the Jedi, followed by the pattern of distrust instilled by the Jedi Council and culminating with Palpatine's influence/manipulation through the majority of his life.

The moment of his transformation felt like a light switch being flipped because it was a tipping point. As some on the Jedi Council suspected the fact that he was the chosen one didn't mean he had the strength to overcome all of the weaknesses that had been instilled in him in his youth reaffirming why the Jedi require training to begin at such a young age. A plot thread that started in the OT and culminated in this one moment. I also think you have to factor in the immense power/influence of the Dark Side of the Force poisoning his mind in his greatest moment of weakness. Something that isn't physical and only talked about up until this point so it's hard to illustrate. His deplorable actions after taking up the mantle of Darth Vader just continued to push him further into the abyss, twisting his logic and completing the transformation. I think when you look at it as a whole it works. If you isolate the actual moment without factoring in all of the variables it can certainly appear his actual turn is without merit.

Those are examples of why he might lean towards the Dark Side, what I wanted to see was Anakin doing more questionable things leading up to him going full on Dark Side, like showing him interrogating someone and crossing the line a bit by using force choke.... some light torturing to show him falling.... What we got was yeah Anakin was unhappy with things and then BOOM full on Dark Side, there was no leading up to it IMO... The only exception is when he executed Dooku, I wanted to see more stuff like that before he went full Sith... Because for me it wasn't believable that he would go from turning the Emperor in to slaughtering Jedi children in a matter of minutes...

[Hanky Panky]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I thought the actors were every bit as strong in the PT. Despite some of the weakness in the dialog (which was the real problem, not the acting IMO) Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor and Christoper Lee were all as good, if not better, than their OT counterparts.

Interesting how you left out Hayden on that list --considering he really is THE focal point to the latter two prequels.

Granted your list of actors certainly went on to produce many a fine films. If we're going to be real here, the facts are Hayden's acting is just SUBPAR. Even with shoddy dialogue, a GOOD actor can make lemonade out of lemons.

The trajectory of Hayden's post SW film work says it all.

Originally Posted by built2shred

Yeah the OT has it's own flaws but what made the OT great was the actors, they brought a lot of personality to the characters especially Harrison Ford & Carrie Fisher... We really didn't get that in the Prequels as a lot of the acting was very stiff and dry