Sinestro Corps vs. The Asgardians

[RichBamf]

Originally Posted by GeneralCinema

Allow me to retort point for point.

1.) Fear
Ha ha ha you are comparing what might freigthen Thor with what would work on mortal Superman? Fear will not work on Thor or most Asgardians for that matter because these beings regularly go to Hel, or Mesphisto's realm and face down cosmic entities that would just have a field day with the likes of Super Man and Wonder Woman. Get real, a warrior race of gods scared, ha ha ha.

Marvel Comics Presents#4/4) - The Fear-Eater attacked Thor, making him believe he was trapped on a sickbed while the other gods fought the final battle, Ragnarok. However, Thor eventually accepted his fate, and overcame his fear, expelling the Fear-Eater.

The Fear-Eater is a putz. Parallax is far more powerful and could easily instill this same fear into Thor.

2.) Mind control. Odin, Loki and other Asgardian spell casters can generally counter act any mind control that one might place on the gods if that's even possible. Sinestro's group had better be wary of the gods getting control of them.

Look at Valkyrie. She was originally a mental construct and later physical manifestation of Thor's insanity created by Thor's own demented mind. She was the manifestation of Thor's insanity, although he believed she was real. As time went on, she exerted more and more control over Thor until he obeyed her every suggestion and was like a slave to her.

Just because she was the manifestation of his insanity, doesn't mean that nobody else could touch his psyche. It would probably be hard, but I think it's possible. It might even be possible to tap into Thor's human host and affect him that way.

If Parallax could make Thor fear, he could use that to take over his mind.

3.) Energy constructs that Thor and the Asgardians usally can break through. (Your point is weak here).

Not so. While Thor is an extremely bad dude, the fear and mental assault would do a number on him and weaken him pretty pretty badly, plus if a couple of thousand SC members are pummeling him, I don't think he'd be able to take them all out.

4.) You think Superboy prime is a trump card? Ha I got a couple. Kurse & The Destroyer both unstoppable.

Kurse is vulnerable to iron - this is a pretty common mineral. Since Superboy-Prime has all of Superman's powers, he's also extremely intelligent and would figure this weakness out relatively quickly. SUPERBOY-PRIME HAS NO WEAKNESSES. You need Kryptonite from HIS dimension, and as far as we know, it doesn't exist.

Second, The Destroyer is a suit of armor that must be animated by the life force of a sentient being. Also take into the consideration that its current whereabouts are unknown. This makes it kind of difficult to use. Even if he was in the fight, I don't think the disintegrator beam could take out Superboy-Prime. He's more powerful than our Superman and Superman has taken the Omega Effect at full blast. Also, Hank Henshaw is a member. He could EASILY take control of the Destroyer Armor and use it on behalf of the SC.

5.) As for Bedovian I have a watchmen called Heimdall who can hear, see, smell and react to anything this joker can do.

Do you know how big a sector is? Let's assume that it's at least the size of a solar system. I think this is a fair estimate. Bedovian can KILL you from THREE sectors away. That's easily at least several LIGHT YEARS away if this is the case. I don't think Heimdall could react quickly enough to that. If I'm wrong in my estimate, please tell me.

6.) Just as Sinestro corps has allies so does Asgard. I assure you Odin will not be taken unawares and beings like this know when to call for allies and the Olympians and other pantheons are all availible (because they know they would be next to be over thrown). And yes Beta Ray Bill would be on that list.

Since when are allies a part of this? I said that I'd allow Beta Ray Bill to join the fight, but he's not an Asgardian. I was saying that even if he WAS in the fight, Asgard would still lose. Now, in this fight, Hela would probably get all of Hel, Odin would unchain Fenrir and unleash the Midgard Serpent. This gives a slight numbers advantage to the Asgardians. Also, the people in Hel probably don't fear anything anymore - or are extremely resistant to fear-inducing powers. This doesn't matter. The Qwardian Power Ring doesn't have the same limitations that the Green Lantern Ring does. The energy that the Asardians would use would ultimately be used to recharge the rings. Also an SC member can kill. GLC members cannot. Big difference here. The SC members would decimate all in their path.

I still say Sinestro Corps wins.

I like you already.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by GeneralCinema

Allow me to retort point for point.

1.) Fear
Ha ha ha you are comparing what might freigthen Thor with what would work on mortal Superman? Fear will not work on Thor or most Asgardians for that matter because these beings regularly go to Hel, or Mesphisto's realm and face down cosmic entities that would just have a field day with the likes of Super Man and Wonder Woman. Get real, a warrior race of gods scared, ha ha ha.

Marvel Comics Presents#4/4) - The Fear-Eater attacked Thor, making him believe he was trapped on a sickbed while the other gods fought the final battle, Ragnarok. However, Thor eventually accepted his fate, and overcame his fear, expelling the Fear-Eater.

The Fear-Eater is a putz. Parallax is far more powerful and could easily instill this same fear into Thor.

2.) Mind control. Odin, Loki and other Asgardian spell casters can generally counter act any mind control that one might place on the gods if that's even possible. Sinestro's group had better be wary of the gods getting control of them.

Look at Valkyrie. She was originally a mental construct and later physical manifestation of Thor's insanity created by Thor's own demented mind. She was the manifestation of Thor's insanity, although he believed she was real. As time went on, she exerted more and more control over Thor until he obeyed her every suggestion and was like a slave to her.

Just because she was the manifestation of his insanity, doesn't mean that nobody else could touch his psyche. It would probably be hard, but I think it's possible. It might even be possible to tap into Thor's human host and affect him that way.

If Parallax could make Thor fear, he could use that to take over his mind.

3.) Energy constructs that Thor and the Asgardians usally can break through. (Your point is weak here).

Not so. While Thor is an extremely bad dude, the fear and mental assault would do a number on him and weaken him pretty pretty badly, plus if a couple of thousand SC members are pummeling him, I don't think he'd be able to take them all out.

4.) You think Superboy prime is a trump card? Ha I got a couple. Kurse & The Destroyer both unstoppable.

Kurse is vulnerable to iron - this is a pretty common mineral. Since Superboy-Prime has all of Superman's powers, he's also extremely intelligent and would figure this weakness out relatively quickly. SUPERBOY-PRIME HAS NO WEAKNESSES. You need Kryptonite from HIS dimension, and as far as we know, it doesn't exist.

Second, The Destroyer is a suit of armor that must be animated by the life force of a sentient being. Also take into the consideration that its current whereabouts are unknown. This makes it kind of difficult to use. Even if he was in the fight, I don't think the disintegrator beam could take out Superboy-Prime. He's more powerful than our Superman and Superman has taken the Omega Effect at full blast. Also, Hank Henshaw is a member. He could EASILY take control of the Destroyer Armor and use it on behalf of the SC.

5.) As for Bedovian I have a watchmen called Heimdall who can hear, see, smell and react to anything this joker can do.

Do you know how big a sector is? Let's assume that it's at least the size of a solar system. I think this is a fair estimate. Bedovian can KILL you from THREE sectors away. That's easily at least several LIGHT YEARS away if this is the case. I don't think Heimdall could react quickly enough to that. If I'm wrong in my estimate, please tell me.

6.) Just as Sinestro corps has allies so does Asgard. I assure you Odin will not be taken unawares and beings like this know when to call for allies and the Olympians and other pantheons are all availible (because they know they would be next to be over thrown). And yes Beta Ray Bill would be on that list.

Since when are allies a part of this? I said that I'd allow Beta Ray Bill to join the fight, but he's not an Asgardian. I was saying that even if he WAS in the fight, Asgard would still lose. Now, in this fight, Hela would probably get all of Hel, Odin would unchain Fenrir and unleash the Midgard Serpent. This gives a slight numbers advantage to the Asgardians. Also, the people in Hel probably don't fear anything anymore - or are extremely resistant to fear-inducing powers. This doesn't matter. The Qwardian Power Ring doesn't have the same limitations that the Green Lantern Ring does. The energy that the Asardians would use would ultimately be used to recharge the rings. Also an SC member can kill. GLC members cannot. Big difference here. The SC members would decimate all in their path.

I still say Sinestro Corps wins.

Ha ha ha you are a funny guy but I disagree with you here on most if not all your points.

1.) You call being stuck in bed and not being able to fight fear? You're joking right? That's more like I'm pissed that I can't fight. Parallax ain't gonna be scaring Thor. How many times has Mesphisto tried?

2.) Thor's human host is not really there because the host was never really a real person. Blake was made to humble Thor. If Blake died Thor would not. Attacking something that's not there is a waste of time. Time you don't have when Mjolnir is flying at your head.

3.) You assume the the fear trick will work on Thor what do you do when it fails and those constructs are being busted up. Sinestro and his gang had better be worried about Loki and others getting ahold of one of those rings. If Odin discovers there power source and shuts it off. I see 7200 dead corpsmen.

4.) To not find the Destroyer? I think the Asgardians have no trouble finding the Destroyer. As for Kurse I'm not sure if iron is a problem for Kurse anymore. As for Darkseid (I call him Liteseid because he is so watered down) DC has made this mess not Marvel. If DC has watered down Darkseid (Liteseid) that their problem Marvel is not oblidged to do the same to the Destroyer. As far as I know the Destroyer has so many weapons in which to Destroy SBP it not even funny.

5.) The Destroyer is not a computer program that Hank Henshaw can infect. Destroyer works on a soul level. Hank has no power here. Asgard is pretty low tech no systems to get into. He will surley be screwed.

6.) As for Heimdall not being able to see across 3 sectors is a joke for him, he can see across dimensions for crying out loud.

7.) You didn't start the thread so for you to say you will allow Beta Ray Bill to fight or not is not for you to say. I assume that all of Asgard is in this fight. and that's a lot.

8.) You make the mistake to say that the Asgardians are not willing to kill like the GL. Ha ha ha LOL I see a lot of slain corpsmen laying about.

I still say that Sinestro and his gang are on a one way trip to Hel.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by Tetragrammaton

I'm glad you admit that not all your points are valid.

That a mis quote I meant his points, sorry.

[VaultMan]

Originally Posted by Makkari1

7.) You didn't start the thread so for you to say you will allow Beta Ray Bill to fight or not is not for you to say. I assume that all of Asgard is in this fight. and that's a lot.

Since I started this thread...Yes, Bill is allowed in this fight.

Additionally, 'Asgardians' means the entire realm: not just Thor. The entire realm makes up a helluva lot more than 7200. And lets not forget the power of: the Odinsword!

I still take the Asgardians.

[VaultMan]

Originally Posted by Makkari1

GeneralCinema glad to have you on board as a fellow debator. You do make some valid points but I must disgree with some of your points.

1.) Fear
Ha ha ha you are comparing what might freigthen Thor with what would work on mortal Superman? Fear will not work on Thor or most Asgardians for that matter because these beings regularly go to Hel, or Mesphisto's realm and face down cosmic entities that would just have a field day with the likes of Super Man and Wonder Woman. Get real, a warrior race of gods scared, ha ha ha.

2.) Mind control. Odin, Loki and other Asgardian spell casters can generally counter act any mind control that one might place on the gods if that's even possible. Sinestro's group had better be wary of the gods getting control of them.

3.) Energy constructs that Thor and the Asgardians usally can break through. (Your point is weak here).

4.) You think Superboy prime is a trump card? Ha I got a couple. Kurse & The Destroyer both unstoppable.

5.) As for Bedovian I have a watchmen called Heimdall who can hear, see, smell and react to anything this joker can do.

6.) Just as Sinestro corps has allies so does Asgard. I assure you Odin will not be taken unawares and beings like this know when to call for allies and the Olympians and other pantheons are all availible (because they know they would be next to be over thrown). And yes Beta Ray Bill would be on that list.

And just if the Sinestro corps were to prevail how many would be left to carry on? Who will bury their dead? Asgardians go to Vallhalla and come back to fight again where is Sinestro and his group going? And lets just say Rune Thor fights in this fight. I say Sinestro goes home like a whipped puppy.

Makkari,

Great arguments, especially for the DC Nation members that say Marvelites dont offer solid arguments for why Marvel heroes win VS threads.

[RichBamf]

Originally Posted by VaultMan

Makkari,

Great arguments, especially for the DC Nation members that say Marvelites dont offer solid arguments for why Marvel heroes win VS threads.

To be honest I think that without Makkari, the Marvel argument would've been over long ago!

[GeneralCinema]

Originally Posted by Makkari1

1.) You call being stuck in bed and not being able to fight fear? You're joking right? That's more like I'm pissed that I can't fight. Parallax ain't gonna be scaring Thor. How many times has Mesphisto tried?

Thor's ONLY fear is not being able to die in battle. Why? Because the ONLY way that he can enter Valhalla is to...die in battle. Therefore, him seeing himself as deathly ill when the biggest battle of all is going on around him, yeah, I call that fear.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

2.) Thor's human host is not really there because the host was never really a real person. Blake was made to humble Thor. If Blake died Thor would not. Attacking something that's not there is a waste of time. Time you don't have when Mjolnir is flying at your head.

I never said anything about killing the human host. I simply said that Thor can be manipulated if his human host is. As far as we know, when Don Blake touches Mjolnir he get transported to the void. How do we know that he's untouchable there? The Qwardian Power Ring can enable inter-dimensional travel.

It's also possible that I could be wrong. If this is the case, Parallax could STILL instill fear in Thor.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

3.) You assume the the fear trick will work on Thor what do you do when it fails and those constructs are being busted up. Sinestro and his gang had better be worried about Loki and others getting ahold of one of those rings. If Odin discovers there power source and shuts it off. I see 7200 dead corpsmen.

If a Fear-Eater could cause Thor to see his worst fear, Parallax would have no problem. The fear trick wouldn't fail.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

4.) To not find the Destroyer? I think the Asgardians have no trouble finding the Destroyer. As for Kurse I'm not sure if iron is a problem for Kurse anymore. As for Darkseid (I call him Liteseid because he is so watered down) DC has made this mess not Marvel. If DC has watered down Darkseid (Liteseid) that their problem Marvel is not oblidged to do the same to the Destroyer. As far as I know the Destroyer has so many weapons in which to Destroy SBP it not even funny.

Once again, SUPERBOY-PRIME HAS NO INVULNERABILITIES. Unless you have Kryptonite from Earth-Prime (which doesn't exist) you cannot kill him.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

5.) The Destroyer is not a computer program that Hank Henshaw can infect. Destroyer works on a soul level. Hank has no power here. Asgard is pretty low tech no systems to get into. He will surley be screwed.

Hank Henshaw was able to possess Steel's armor. He may be able to do the same with the Destroyer armor.

On the other hand, the Destroyer Armor is mystical in origin and might not be affected by this at all. If this is the case, Anti-Monitor should have little problem with him.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

6.) As for Heimdall not being able to see across 3 sectors is a joke for him, he can see across dimensions for crying out loud.

According to wikipedia:
His senses are said to be so acute that he could hear sap running through trees and see events occurring miles away.

This hardly counts for seeing across dimensions. However, since he is a god, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that he CAN see Bedovian three sectors away. This won't stop him from being killed. I also wonder if he could see Despotellis, since he's microscopic.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

7.) You didn't start the thread so for you to say you will allow Beta Ray Bill to fight or not is not for you to say. I assume that all of Asgard is in this fight. and that's a lot.

This is true. It's also irrelevant at this point.

Originally Posted by Makkari1

8.) You make the mistake to say that the Asgardians are not willing to kill like the GL. Ha ha ha LOL I see a lot of slain corpsmen laying about.

I never said that. I was making a comparison between the SC and the GLC. I know that the Asgardians will kill. My point was that the Qwardian Power Rings won't stop SC members frmo killing a sentient being.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by RichBamf

To be honest I think that without Makkari, the Marvel argument would've been over long ago!

Well thank you for the vote of confidence but I don't think I'm the only Marvel fan out here. When you attack a place like Asgard you won't walk away with victory that you can savor. Like I said earlier,even if Sinestro is able to defeat Asgard who on his team will left to enjoy anything? A dozen or so or maybe less?

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by GeneralCinema

Thor's ONLY fear is not being able to die in battle. Why? Because the ONLY way that he can enter Valhalla is to...die in battle. Therefore, him seeing himself as deathly ill when the biggest battle of all is going on around him, yeah, I call that fear.

I don't see this as something Parallax can exploit. You forget to the same degree that you effect myside I can effect your side as well.

I never said anything about killing the human host. I simply said that Thor can be manipulated if his human host is. As far as we know, when Don Blake touches Mjolnir he get transported to the void. How do we know that he's untouchable there? The Qwardian Power Ring can enable inter-dimensional travel.

In all my years of reading Thor no one has used this as a plot. Blake just is not a factor and has not been for a long time.

It's also possible that I could be wrong. If this is the case, Parallax could STILL instill fear in Thor.

I really dout this is something that can be used.

If a Fear-Eater could cause Thor to see his worst fear, Parallax would have no problem. The fear trick wouldn't fail.

So are you saying that Parallax has to use fear to fight Thor? If so Parallax is screwed. Fight him man to man.

Once again, SUPERBOY-PRIME HAS NO INVULNERABILITIES. Unless you have Kryptonite from Earth-Prime (which doesn't exist) you cannot kill him.

What a load of crap. DC is always saying something can be done then they go undo it. They once said nothing can survive Darkseid's Omega's, ha now everyone and their mama can survive those. Just cause DC say it don't make so. Marvel says the Destroyer is the sh*t and so far nothing short of a Celestial has stopped it in battle. I say if SBP met the Destroyer he goes down fast and hard.

Hank Henshaw was able to possess Steel's armor. He may be able to do the same with the Destroyer armor.

I'm so sorry you feel Steel's armor is worth mentioning. The Destroyer is on a whole other level, the damn thing can even destroy sprites, astral forms and other ghostly apparitions. Henshaw is so screwed trying to fight a mystic being powered by every pantheon on Marvel Earth, poor Hank gets his a$$ handed to him again.

On the other hand, the Destroyer Armor is mystical in origin and might not be affected by this at all. If this is the case, Anti-Monitor should have little problem with him.

AM has his hands full with Odin while the Destroyer takes out his lackeys. Even the Celestials could not fully destroy the armor it will just reform and come back if AM is able to destroy it which I doubt seriously..

According to wikipedia:
His senses are said to be so acute that he could hear sap running through trees and see events occurring miles away.

This hardly counts for seeing across dimensions. However, since he is a god, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that he CAN see Bedovian three sectors away. This won't stop him from being killed. I also wonder if he could see Despotellis, since he's microscopic.

Yes keep on quoting wikipedia the pargon of ultimate infomation. Heimdall can see this stuff while it happens on earth and Heimdall is in Asgard in another dimension.

This is true. It's also irrelevant at this point.

You brought it up I responded.


I never said that. I was making a comparison between the SC and the GLC. I know that the Asgardians will kill. My point was that the Qwardian Power Rings won't stop SC members from killing a sentient being.

So you'll have a lot of Dead corpsmen with no where to go except Hel. Thor and co. will come back from Valhalla ready fresh to fight some more.

My bottom line is this. If Sinestro is able to manage a win (and he won't) How many are left to carry on? I assure you it won't be enough members for a 5 man basketball team. Maybe in DC Sinestro is and his group is the sh*t but in Marvel he is royaly f*cked on a one way trip.

Odin says don't come up in my house a start some sh*t. You are forgetting Loki and the Enchantress are still out there doing their thing. These two can really screw you up. Magic is bit*h to deal with.

[HalJordanFan]

Originally Posted by Makkari1

My bottom line is this. If Sinestro is able to manage a win (and he won't) How many are left to carry on? I assure you it won't be enough members for a 5 man basketball team. Maybe in DC Sinestro is and his group is the sh*t but in Marvel he is royaly f*cked on a one way trip.

Odin says don't come up in my house a start some sh*t. You are forgetting Loki and the Enchantress are still out there doing their thing. These two can really screw you up. Magic is bit*h to deal with.

Makkari is a bit*h to deal with!