Which Character Personifies Heroism More: Superman or Captain America?

[VaultMan]

Originally Posted by MrYac

but why does risk alone define heroism to you?

The question isn't "is superman heroic". he absolutely is. The question is, who is more heroic between the two, and someone without as much to lose just can't be as heroic, IMHO

[MrYac]

well i respectfully disagree, seeing as how Clark has faced off with opponents far stronger them himself countless times that should even the field, he has more then proven that when the risk of death is there he is still 100% willing to step up to the plate to defend those who can't defend themselves.

[RichBamf]

Originally Posted by VaultMan

The point isnt that they were both in WWII, the point is, one of these characters could throw a tank into the pacific, and other could die from a bullet wound. Thats the difference. Big deal Superman fought in WWII - he shoulda ended the war sooner if he's SO GREAT. LOL

So by your definition Eric, a bystander is more heroic than a cop or a soldier? Because one has more power at his disposal? That's a pretty weak argument buddy.

As I said before heroism isn't about doing what someone CAN'T do, it's doing what someone WON'T.

Heroism is about more than ability, it's about moral code. Supes and Cap are the epitome of morality and 'good'.

Does everyone forget that Supes was killed by Doomsday, fighting to protect innocents? He's fought hundreds of times without his powers, or under the effects of Kryptonite or even against magic enemies that go toe to toe with him.

One more consideration...Cap was a soldier before the super soldier project, meaning he'd had training and did his job as a soldier.

Supes had unlimited power and a happy family life, no connections to people alien to him, but still chose to help people 24/7. Just because someone can't be hurt by bullets doesn't mean he isn't heroic. He fights a LOT more galactic, life threatening threats than cap does, but he also deals with street level stuff like robberies and potential suicides (see JMS run). That's admirable IMO.

I'm not arguing for a definitvie winner on either side in this debate as I think they both personify heroism, but I think the arguments in this thread against Supes are laughable at best.

[Tetragrammaton]

Would Cap be a greater hero if he didn't have an indestructible shield? He would be at much greater risk without it.

[StatueBandit]

As much as I love CAP Superman is not only America's Hero but the Planet as well.

Also he has been on the agenda since the 1930'S with a track record much longer then CAPS'S

[Peter-Vell]

Originally Posted by MrYac

bull---- on that "just a man" crap, he's a SUPER Solider, he is far beyond the limits of what an average man can do.

Uhm, I may be outta line here, but Cap is not beyond the limits of an average man. He is supposed to be "Peak Human", or the peak of Human condition....HUMAN condition. No more, no less.

And on heroism: isn't it always the superheroes themselves who tell policemen and firemen that they are the real heroes, because they risk their lives without having superpowers? Doesn't this apply to an near invulnerable demi-god vs. a Peak Human?

Just my opinion.

[rychehitman]

Okay......here's a different take on this....

(mainly because I have time on my hands and I enjoy Ryans threads...)

Superman and Heroism...well...here we have an alien being that crashed on our planet in a space ship as a baby when his birth parents launched him away from a dying planet. He discovered that the yellow sun of our solar system gave him superhuman abilities and certainly enough power to conquer this planet...yet under the loving care of two human parents that raised him, he was raised with the family values and the ethics attributed to the best of what America has to offer. Did he choose to become a hero? Well....I would say yes....but what did he overcome to become a hero? What struggles did he have that may have led him to stray off the heroic path? Well, none really.....so how heroic is his heroism if he did not choose it, but rather was raised to do it?

Captain America? A guy that turned to experimantal drugs to enhance himself physically so he could step into the spotlight and be used as a propoganda tool while thousands of young American teens laid down their lives to defend our country and allies? Doesn't sound to heroic to me....and again...what did he overcome?

Now let's add Spider-Man to the mix.....
Here we have a kid who has a pretty crappy life. His parents died when he was young and he was raised by his Aunt and Uncle. He grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood in a family unit that managed to make ends meet, but that's about it. On a personal front his social life was a mess. He was constantly bullied at school and was not very comfortable in his own body. Through a miraculous event, he is granted super powers and his immediate thought is a natural one of improving his financial situation in life for both him and his family. His Uncle is then brutally murdered. Now this kid has a choice to make....he could easily be influenced by so much death and misery in his life to lash out at society and take whatever he can get because few could attempt to stop him.......OR he could be inspired by his lifes struggles to lead a better life and help those in need and put others before himself. Now THAT my friends is heroic!

Spider-Man is a true heroes hero!

[RichBamf]

Originally Posted by rychehitman

Okay......here's a different take on this....

(mainly because I have time on my hands and I enjoy Ryans threads...)

Superman and Heroism...well...here we have an alien being that crashed on our planet in a space ship as a baby when his birth parents launched him away from a dying planet. He discovered that the yellow sun of our solar system gave him superhuman abilities and certainly enough power to conquer this planet...yet under the loving care of two human parents that raised him, he was raised with the family values and the ethics attributed to the best of what America has to offer. Did he choose to become a hero? Well....I would say yes....but what did he overcome to become a hero? What struggles did he have that may have led him to stray off the heroic path? Well, none really.....so how heroic is his heroism if he did not choose it, but rather was raised to do it?

Captain America? A guy that turned to experimantal drugs to enhance himself physically so he could step into the spotlight and be used as a propoganda tool while thousands of young American teens laid down their lives to defend our country and allies? Doesn't sound to heroic to me....and again...what did he overcome?

Now let's add Spider-Man to the mix.....
Here we have a kid who has a pretty crappy life. His parents died when he was young and he was raised by his Aunt and Uncle. He grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood in a family unit that managed to make ends meet, but that's about it. On a personal front his social life was a mess. He was constantly bullied at school and was not very comfortable in his own body. Through a miraculous event, he is granted super powers and his immediate thought is a natural one of improving his financial situation in life for both him and his family. His Uncle is then brutally murdered. Now this kid has a choice to make....he could easily be influenced by so much death and misery in his life to lash out at society and take whatever he can get because few could attempt to stop him.......OR he could be inspired by his lifes struggles to lead a better life and help those in need and put others before himself. Now THAT my friends is heroic!

Spider-Man is a true heroes hero!

While I agree that Spidey is the true version of a hero too, Superman's family values were instilled by his parents, Pete's were too.

So the argument you use to dismiss Superman is pretty redundant here Robbie.

[rychehitman]

Did I not do a good enough job explaining that Superman really did not go through any loss in his life while Peter's life was nothing but loss?!?

(No, I do not count Krypton blowing up as loss for Kal....for the sake of this argument...he was a baby and had no memory of either Parents or Home until well after becoming Superman, right?)

Spider-Man overcame more and CHOSE to be a hero moreso than any other Hero I can think of outside of Batman...

But nice to see we agree on Cap being a druggie

Rich...did you post your thoughts on the GL movie anywhere? I just saw this over the weekend and wanted to see what your take was.....

[Argonus]

Originally Posted by rychehitman

Okay......here's a different take on this....

(mainly because I have time on my hands and I enjoy Ryans threads...)

You're dead to me.



But.. seriously.. Spider-Man's had so many reasons to stop being a hero; he's had more steaming bags of Quesada thrown at him than any other hero, over the years.. and he keeps pluggin' away.

I haven't read the book in years, but when he's written well, he's the most noble guy in comics. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also able to pick up Mjolnir (much like Cap and Supes can).