SF Private Commission Print

[Hellboy]

Just to clarify the initial 10 votes are to give your favorites a bit of an advantage going into the elimination game. These votes are "use them or lose them." So if you have clear favorites it might be in your best interest not to use all 10 votes, which around half of you that have submitted your's have already done.

Originally Posted by Underdog07

I am familiar with the elimination games and i think this method will result in at least half the people dropping out as i can see a movie that had 5-8 picks on the original list winning via this method. I hope i am wrong, but time will tell.

If people participate then the most popular films will be in our top 5. Period. If they don't then those that do participate will have more influence.

If half the people decide to drop out because they don't like the top 5 then so be it. The list of 20 was established with this in mind. I honestly don't see this happening but like I said there is no way to please everyone 100%. At least this with this method we can see where people stand, people can make their cases for each film and everyone can give or take away votes based on either their personal preferences or maybe compromising for the sake of the group.

Originally Posted by bloodrain

im not sure how this whole +- thing will pan out. seems if people arent on it daily and others are certain prints may bubble up to the top that others may not like.

maybe after the list is made we should just have a 1 or 2 veto votes for ideas people definitely dont want and those that gets the most vetos get dropped from the list

The elimination game is pretty straightforward. Those that don't understand how it works or are confused by the process will figure it out pretty quickly, its not very complicated. The rules are laid out in my post above and will only be modified if we get the list trimmed down and run into a stalemate situation near the end.

[Underdog07]

I don't see it that plainly. We had a vote that established people's preferences. I am not sure why we are going away from that vote to a new system unless people are not happy with what those options were.

People familiar with the elimination game know that small voting group cab dictate entries that get eliminated relatively easily.

I foresee a movie like Escape from New York or Big Trouble readily winning this contest by having just 5 strong supporters as they can bolster that movie while the other 15 try to have their favorite win.

And the fact that half the people dropping out was not expected and shouldn't be a "so be it" if that's the attitude, the organizers should just name whatever movie they want and see what interest level there is rather than not caring If those that are participating end up getting a print

That's my humble opinion

[ReplicantSavior]

Originally Posted by Underdog07

People familiar with the elimination game know that small voting group cab dictate entries that get eliminated relatively easily.

Wait if someone starts early in the +1 -1 game and eliminates/brings a movie to negative status. Can't another person still come in and prop it back up? I mean I should be able to take votes from all the movies I don't want and put them to Sucker Punch to help that movie right?

[Underdog07]

Originally Posted by ReplicantSavior

Wait if someone starts early in the +1 -1 game and eliminates/brings a movie to negative status. Can't another person still come in and prop it back up? I mean I should be able to take votes from all the movies I don't want and put them to Sucker Punch to help that movie right?

I think you might misunderstand the game. I agree with Hellboy that it is readily understandable when you see it in action.

To answer you question though -- no, once a movie hits 0 it is eliminated.

For Example:

Status is
Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2
Movie C -1

You use your 1 vote on Day 1 for Movie C and take away Movie B

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2 - 1 = 1
Movie C -1 + 1 = 2

Later on Day 1 the below happens from X

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 1 +1 = 2
Movie C 2 - 1 = 1

and then Y

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2 + 1 = 3
Movie C 1 - 1 = 0

Movie C is now eliminated and you can not revive with your vote on the next day

[Hellboy]

Originally Posted by Underdog07

I don't see it that plainly. We had a vote that established people's preferences. I am not sure why we are going away from that vote to a new system unless people are not happy with what those options were.

People familiar with the elimination game know that small voting group cab dictate entries that get eliminated relatively easily.

I foresee a movie like Escape from New York or Big Trouble readily winning this contest by having just 5 strong supporters as they can bolster that movie while the other 15 try to have their favorite win.

And the fact that half the people dropping out was not expected and shouldn't be a "so be it" if that's the attitude, the organizers should just name whatever movie they want and see what interest level there is rather than not caring If those that are participating end up getting a print

That's my humble opinion

You're right, we did have a vote to establish people's preferences. Thats how we came up with the list we're using for the elimination game idea. We aren't going away from that as you can support any of those films with a vote before the elimination starts giving them a slight edge. Chances are people's votes will mirror the way that list looked when it was locked down so those films start out sitting atop the pile.

Regardless of how we do it we need to narrow the list down to 5. Now I could just take the top 5 that we ended with and just be done with it but I don't think, given the time we still have, that the majority wants that. Doing it this way is an attempt to have some fun with the process instead of just killing it as is and sitting here for 4-5 months until the artist is available.

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't get the "not caring" comment. The list of commissioners was specifically bumped up to 20 to compensate for people potentially dropping out. From the beginning it was made clear the choice(s) may not appeal to everyone. If people wish to drop out it is "so be it" because the commission will continue despite it. It doesn't mean we don't care, it means we're being realistic and understand not everyone will be satisfied with the end result. Thats just the nature of letting a majority make a decision for a group.

Its been said already but something to consider if you do decide the film in question is not something you're personally interested in. This will be extremely limited. The cost to each commissioner if the list stays at 20 is probably going to be around $150. You should easily be able to flip the print if you don't like it, in turn making your money back and then some.

[Bullseye]

What are peoples feelings on the top 5? Would they be happy with it?

[ReplicantSavior]

Originally Posted by Underdog07

I think you might misunderstand the game. I agree with Hellboy that it is readily understandable when you see it in action.

To answer you question though -- no, once a movie hits 0 it is eliminated.

For Example:

Status is
Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2
Movie C -1

You use your 1 vote on Day 1 for Movie C and take away Movie B

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2 - 1 = 1
Movie C -1 + 1 = 2

Later on Day 1 the below happens from X

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 1 +1 = 2
Movie C 2 - 1 = 1

and then Y

Movie A - 3
Movie B - 2 + 1 = 3
Movie C 1 - 1 = 0

Movie C is now eliminated and you can not revive with your vote on the next day

Ah, so it's only once we can do this -1 +1. That's not clear in the instructions. I was thinking I could -1 from every movie I didn't want. So the 5+ I could take and put in all towards Prometheus.

I still don't like the inability to bring a negative voted movie back. If people vote early and as a team some movies could go fast.

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Its been said already but something to consider if you do decide the film in question is not something you're personally interested in. This will be extremely limited. The cost to each commissioner if the list stays at 20 is probably going to be around $150. You should easily be able to flip the print if you don't like it, in turn making your money back and then some.

How many prints are we talking again? I thought it was originally 2 or 3 per person. Then there are the artist's prints. So that's almost 100. It's limited but not so much. I've seen limited prints around this edition size still not command premiums.

Still I want to see what the artist thinks and comes up with before I decide to bail out. I mean if they do Blade II they might just want to focus on Nomak and his creatures. That's a no go for me...

Originally Posted by Bullseye

What are peoples feelings on the top 5? Would they be happy with it?

I was fine with the top 5. I thought Frobay was going to take the whole list minus the 1 and 2 votes to the artist to see what they think. More choices is better than a few. Then the artist could come back with their favorites. I mean it's still possible that the artist won't like our 5 picks...

[Underdog07]

Without arguing and just agreeing to disagree, here is how I see it

We did a vote based on a format everyone discussed and seemed to agree to. We came up with a list that I think everyone understand to be the list. We then started showing concepts for ideas from the top movies of that list.

The 20th member of our group joined and proposed a new vote of only the top 2 movies. You, i think, rightly nixed that because People disagreed. However you then instituted the elimination game without to my recollection asking if people wanted to proceed that way or go another way or just use the first list. I assume with discussed with 1 or 2 members but don't know for sure.

I think some people must not have been happy with the original vote and we now have a method that is much easier to control the outcome of. Again, I don't fault or blame anyone it's just how I see this playing out. But again time will tell.

As to value, I don't think we can assume a vast return on any project. The number of prints we are discussing makes this something you should want for that type of money not hope to flip

[ReplicantSavior]

You know thinking about this I would be happier with the artist seeing the 23 movie list and saying I'm ok with these movies (who knows how many) and then us voting on those. It's a lot better and again gives the artist more choice.

Who knows, they might even come back with ideas with their choices to give us something to think about.

[Simplyrob]

Ok, I know there's been a lot of explaining above but I think I missed something. Do the daily votes detract from our original votes? If one of the properties I voted for is given enough votes to eliminate it on the first day, that's that? I could vote each day to bump one of my choices by 1 vote each day and throw a -1 on a film that I don't care for? Sounds like, realistically, the fore-runners will have a landslide lead and the lower vote getting choices (like mine) will be blown out after the first few days. Also, if we're expecting a bunch to drop out, that'll significantly alter the funds needed to produce a lower produced print, thus changing the costs for the remaining members? Sorry, never been part of an elimination thing like this.