Friends of Northstar 4

[bat_collector]

Originally Posted by JonoJ108

you know what to do if they start handing out dixie cups of kool-aid, right, mike?

lol, yes grab jeff and run!

like I said, its 15 people from his gay bible study group.

I'll make sure to have a lot of reading material handy

I just hope we don't sing kumbabya or some dumb stuff like that

[TNovak]

I'm happy for Jeff. There is no reason a gay person can't be a person of faith, and many are. There is no rule that says any person, gay or straight, HAS to be a person of faith, but it certainly should be OK for a person to have faith if they are so inclined.

[bat_collector]

I'm happy for jeff too. He does identify himself as a christian, and I wouldn't have him change that part of himself.

[bat_collector]

who is watching the vp debate tonight

[Jesse321]

Just for the entertainment value if nothing else.

[JonoJ108]

Originally Posted by bat_collector

lol, yes grab jeff and run!

like I said, its 15 people from his gay bible study group.

I'll make sure to have a lot of reading material handy

I just hope we don't sing kumbabya or some dumb stuff like that

hmmm, a retreat w/ 15 gay guys. bible or no bible, i don't know if it's SING-alongs you have to worry about.

Originally Posted by TNovak

I'm happy for Jeff. There is no reason a gay person can't be a person of faith, and many are. There is no rule that says any person, gay or straight, HAS to be a person of faith, but it certainly should be OK for a person to have faith if they are so inclined.

you're happy for Jeff because he's a person of faith? i don't hold anything against him & i like him for the fact that he makes Mike happy. not knowing him personally nor his ideas specifically, i don't think anyone here was taking a swipe at Jeff for living his spirituality. that in itself can often be admirable. i think our questioning of this as a weekend activity sprang more from BC himself not sounding terribly excited about going.

Originally Posted by bat_collector

I'm happy for jeff too. He does identify himself as a christian, and I wouldn't have him change that part of himself.

i don't think that's really something to be happy or not happy for on someone else's behalf. Are you sad for people who aren't spiritual? i don't believe in God, but i know a lot of people derive much from their religious beliefs (security, comfort, moral guidance, etc). i'm happy for Jeff because he seems to be in a relationship w/ a cool guy & it looks like they have an interesting & active life, not because he believes in Jesus.

Originally Posted by bat_collector

who is watching the vp debate tonight

um, the whole world? i want her to CRY! I want Biden to knock her glasses off! I want Gwen Ifill to expose her for the backfiring STUNT candidate she is! McCain met her ONCE before picking her as his running mate--ONE TIME ON EARTH.

[TNovak]

Originally Posted by JonoJ108

you're happy for Jeff because he's a person of faith? i don't hold anything against him & i like him for the fact that he makes Mike happy. not knowing him personally nor his ideas specifically, i don't think anyone here was taking a swipe at Jeff for living his spirituality. that in itself can often be admirable. i think our questioning of this as a weekend activity sprang more from BC himself not sounding terribly excited about going.

I guess I meant that I'm happy for him because I know that people of faith seem to get personal strength from it.

My mom is a person of faith, my father is not. Both were great parents and I wasn't trying to say that people of faith are "better" or anything and I didn't mean to insinuate that anybody was taking a swipe at Jeff (I didn't think that at all) I myself am not a person of strong faith and have a lot of doubting Thomas in me. I was just trying to say that there is no reason in my view that faith and gay need to be mutually exclusive.

[JonoJ108]

i'll VERY, VERY enthusiastically repeat the strong recommendations i received--and happily followed--by fellow FONers to seek out & watch a FANTASTIC documentary on this subject called, "For the Bible Tells Me So." it brilliantly deals w/ questions of faith in families w/ gay children. it's awesome, awesome, awesome.

I also read & really got a lot out of Christopher Hitchens' book, "God Is Not Great," which is much more an angry & articulate atheist pretty much taking every brick out of the God building. While one may not agree w/ all of his assertions or positions, it was one of the most engaging books i'd read in a long time and one point that i thought was particularly well-made is that you DON'T have to be Religious to be Moral.

on the whole question, I would prefer a more humanistic approach, whereby we didn't have to surrender our agency, credit for our accomplishments, and blame for our shortcomings on an invisible supernatural force or being.

[bat_collector]

Originally Posted by JonoJ108

i don't think that's really something to be happy or not happy for on someone else's behalf.

I'm happy that he as something that makes him happy. I'm also happy that he likes transformers and likes to work out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that admire and respect his faith and his adherance to it, even if I do not exactly wish to follow it as he does.

And while I'm nto saying going to this retreat is my first choice, since jeff does stuff with me he doesn't particularly like, I guess I can do the same for him from time to time.

and I gotta say I'm curious what is gonna happen.

As far the debate, I have a bad bad feeling Palin is gonna use the "I'm a woman, look how cute I am when I belittle everybody" trick and people will fall for it.

[Ink]

afternoon FON