"a lot of Beta Ray Bill had to go"

[MrYac]

so wait...bill isn't a kick ass space camel who whooped thor so bad Odin gave him his own hammer any more?

[wktf]

Originally Posted by Sam Wilson

Yeah. BRB did NOT need to be retconned.

Such a great character retconned. What a joke.

[Mek]

Oh for...

I actually did ask Oeming whether he was reconning Bill's origin or not.

Oeming told me that he WAS NOT going to retcon anything Simonson had done or established. It was -more or less- the Simon Walters thing that he would be tying into Omega Flight. Hence the 'explaining the origins' thing... however it should have been more properly phrased to address the Simon Walters thing instead.

I myself am probably in the minority: I actually like the concept of Beta Ray Bill/Simon Walters. Sure, it's not original and does complicate things, but I trust that Oeming has some viable and reasonable explanations for things. I mean, he likes Beta Ray Bill and I trust he won't 'destroy' the character.

If not, well... I guess some writer will come along and separate Bill and Simon in the future. Which would be a pity, but then again, that's strictly IMO.

So PLEASE try not to jump attack Oeming for something that hasn't always been clearly explained in press interviews. (I'd love to do an interview with Oeming for my BRB fansite someday, but I'm too timid to ask)

[lord odin]

If it ain`t broke don`t fix it.
Why the need to change characters and stories is beyond me next thing you know Aunt May will be a hooker and uncle Ben her pimp.

[rychehitman]

The whole "giving BRB a human alter ego in the form of a african/american (african/canadian?) man named Simon Walters" thing in and of itself was not too bad IMO. It has not been fleshed out whatsoever. Who was the entity in the robe in the (85% dreadful) BRB mini series that did this to him?

I dont think the demon/great beasts thing was 100% confirmed, but all signs were pointing there, and that would have been a stretch.

I guess its a glass half full type of thing. Would you rather see regular appearances by Bill that arent quite your cup of tea, or have him written off into limbo for months on end? In my opinion, its not like Bill has been used all that well at all since Simonson wrote him. His part in Blood and Thunder was a real let down, and his appearances during the Kubert era of Thor were not that impactful. How about the various mini's he was thrown into? Most of them werent that great.

As BRB fans,we are clinging to the old glory days of Walt, and remembering the impact Bills introduction had on us as Thor fans, but sadly those days are long gone. I would be happy to just see Bill make it to the Marvel mainstream so he can at least have a chance to be further developed. I understand its risky, but in light of ALL the damage that has been done to his character since Walt gave up control, it really cant get that much worse, can it?

[wktf]

Originally Posted by Dana P.

Jumpin' Joe -

I think that you realize it's not a retcon. What it is, is it's adding completely unnecessary and arbitrary changes to a character who needed nothing like that.

Yes, thanks. Called it the wrong thing.

Mek and Ryche, my issue is that I just dislike the addition of the Simon Walters alter ego. So, I'm not jumping on this proposed turn of events in the character's storyline as much as I still just have issues, unlike you guys, with the alter ego changes that happened in the last Bill mini series.

Ryche, I completely understand you glass half full thought. For me, I'd rather go back to my Simonson Visionaries to read Bill well written than suffer through mishandlings in current Marvel continuity.

[rychehitman]

Originally Posted by wktf

Ryche, I completely understand you glass half full thought. For me, I'd rather go back to my Simonson Visionaries to read Bill well written than suffer through mishandlings in current Marvel continuity.

I know the feeling.

Sadly, the same can be said for far too many characters that used to be great

I cant wait until the Marvel Masterworks series reaches the Perez Avengers era, or the Buscema Thor era! = )

[Mek]

Mek and Ryche, my issue is that I just dislike the addition of the Simon Walters alter ego.

Ahhh, I see your point. Admittedly I'm not exactly a fan of alter-egos for the most part, but for whatever reason I myself don't seem to mind Simon Walters all that much. But I can see why this aspect wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea (or coffee or whatever you drink).

The whole "giving BRB a human alter ego in the form of a african/american (african/canadian?) man named Simon Walters" thing in and of itself was not too bad IMO. It has not been fleshed out whatsoever. Who was the entity in the robe in the (85% dreadful) BRB mini series that did this to him?

That's where the problem is with Simon. We don't know the 'why' or 'how', and with the recent cut of stuff from 'Omega Flight', we probably will never know -assuming it never gets picked up as an ongoing-. I've heard it was Thor (Rune Thor, that is) and some are suspecting Talisman for whatever reason.

(And for what it's worth, I loved "Stormbreaker", but could have done without the flashbacks)

I guess its a glass half full type of thing. Would you rather see regular appearances by Bill that arent quite your cup of tea, or have him written off into limbo for months on end? In my opinion, its not like Bill has been used all that well at all since Simonson wrote him. His part in Blood and Thunder was a real let down, and his appearances during the Kubert era of Thor were not that impactful. How about the various mini's he was thrown into? Most of them werent that great.

OH GOD YES. 'Blood and Thunder' was an epic mishandling of *many* characters the way I see it. Bill was simply used as a peripheral punching bag, which annoyed the tar out of me. And in just about every appearance he's in, he's treated like a throw-away character. (I'm looking at YOU, 'She-Hulk #7, Vol. 1...)

I thought he was okay in 'Thor Corps' though, even if he hasn't done much so far (I only have the first two issues), and his appearances in 'Power Pack' are cute. Can't say much about 'Star Masters' or 'Cosmic Powers Unlimited' though.

Oeming, you gotta admit a little, has been the ONLY writer since Simonson to show Bill a certain level of respect. At least, that's the way I see it.

I understand its risky, but in light of ALL the damage that has been done to his character since Walt gave up control, it really cant get that much worse, can it?

If I ever get to write at Marvel someday (when Hell freezes over, that is), all I can say is this: Beware!

No, I'm just kidding. Honestly, even I'm a little anxious to see what'll happen to Bill. His track record hasn't shown the gentlest of care from creators, but I still have some degree of faith in Oeming that he'll eventually sort things out for future writers who wish to write Bill.

[rychehitman]

Marvel dropped the ball when they didnt have Spidey take bill to the Avengers at the end of his mini series.

Bill should have gone straight to the Avengers...told them what he witnessed in Asgard, and what happened to him after Rune Thor transported him away from Asgard and back into space.

From there he should have confided in Captain America about his new human identity, and joined the team where he could have received help and support from the Avengers, and stayed relevant in the Marvel universe.

[lord odin]

Originally Posted by rychehitman

Marvel dropped the ball when they didnt have Spidey take bill to the Avengers at the end of his mini series.

Bill should have gone straight to the Avengers...told them what he witnessed in Asgard, and what happened to him after Rune Thor transported him away from Asgard and back into space.

From there he should have confided in Captain America about his new human identity, and joined the team where he could have received help and support from the Avengers, and stayed relevant in the Marvel universe.

Another case of huge plot holes.