Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi *spoilers start at post 353*

[T.MAC]

Originally Posted by built2shred

You know in the opening scene, I never knew there was gravity in space... I thought when they opened the bomb bay doors and released the bombs they would of just floated in space... boy do I feel foolish....

Dead Yoda was guiding them from the grave with the force.

Duh.

[johnclone]

Originally Posted by MrYac

that's why the whole thing in the new movies is just dumb, hell you wouldn't even need pilots just set it to auto or stick a droid in there and war over.

Right, you don't even need huge cruisers and warships, just tiny droid piloted rockets that can jump to lightspeed directly in the path of an enemy fleet.

[johnclone]

Originally Posted by Luminous

First, who says it is common knowledge in the Star Wars universe that jumping into light speed towards an enemy combatant will yield the results we saw in TLJ? Isn't it possible that Holdo had no idea how effective her desperate maneuver would be?

Second, even if it is common knowledge, why does everyone assume it would be a common and acceptable tactic in any given military force? The Japanese have used a kamikaze tactic in the past, did we see every other military force on this planet suddenly adopt the maneuver for their own battles? And please don't bring up extremist examples. That would not apply to either military force in Star Wars.

And finally, the maneuver yielded near nuclear results. Since when is the nuclear option the first, second, or even third strategic option in warfare?

When you think of all of the super advanced technology in the Star Wars galaxy it does seem a bit unlikely that scientists and researchers wouldn't have seen the huge potential in using jumping to hyperspace as a weapon, if it were as "all powerful" as we see it depicted in TLJ. I think that if such a phenomenon existed though, they would also have come up with defenses for such an attack. Just for instance, things like anti hyperspace rays designed to knock an invader back out of hyperspace, or an alarm that immediately moves a ship out of the way of an approaching ship, possibly even making a very short jump to lightspeed itself just to move away from the approaching vessel, or maybe some sort of phasing device that could temporarily phase a ship to where being struck by another ship jumping to hyperspace would indeed just pass right through it harmlessly.

I mean, do we really want to believe that this is the first time this technology was used as a weapon in the known galaxy? Nobody in the whole known galaxy ever thought of it until a purple haired lady in a wrinkly dress came up with it for the first time?

So the real problem as I see it is this is a writing problem. This would definitely have been a known issue in space combat, perhaps for thousands of years ship captains would have known of this. Surely it would have, and with all of their technology and advancements, as well as the incredible expense of planets and empires in developing all of these spaceships and putting them up in space, doesn't it make sense that there would be safeguards already in place to defend a ship from this very sort of attack?

[qz33]

I'll bring some back in the day nerdy for everyone here.
This is what I know from many years ago from before even the prequels.

The ships they were flying were Mon Calamari (Ackbar's race) ships. Originally the Calamari didn't enter the Wars until near Return of the Jedi. (Yeah I know Rogue One upsets that too.)
The Mon Calamari were extremely adept at making tough shielding as a result to their peaceful nature, more interested in defense than offense. That is what allowed much of the rebel fleet to "get closer to those Star Destroyers" and last as long as they did during the battle of Endor in Return of the Jedi.

As alluded to in The Last Jedi these shields were still something special because the First Order still couldn't destroy them as they had expected.
So maybe it's all in the comparative shield strength.

As far as why not just hyperspace around and kamikaze everything, until The Force Awakens I never took that hyperspace travel was so precise as to actually aim for something while in it. Yeah it takes precise calculations but that still doesn't mean they fly within meters of planets or stars in hyperspace.

I hadn't thought of the bombs in space logic myself but I guess since the ships have artificial gravity it's possible this extends past the ship for a bit and the bigger the ship the farther the extension.

Yeah I know those are a stretch but it really is all there is. And yeah if the Rebels/Resistance had a nuclear option you can bet it would be at the forefront of their minds as they were up against planet and star system killers that had already took the lives of billions.
There's no way around it the new movies stretched things a bit too far in regards of trying to do something new within the workings of old established mechanisms.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by johnclone

When you think of all of the super advanced technology in the Star Wars galaxy it does seem a bit unlikely that scientists and researchers wouldn't have seen the huge potential in using jumping to hyperspace as a weapon, if it were as "all powerful" as we see it depicted in TLJ. I think that if such a phenomenon existed though, they would also have come up with defenses for such an attack. Just for instance, things like anti hyperspace rays designed to knock an invader back out of hyperspace, or an alarm that immediately moves a ship out of the way of an approaching ship, possibly even making a very short jump to lightspeed itself just to move away from the approaching vessel, or maybe some sort of phasing device that could temporarily phase a ship to where being struck by another ship jumping to hyperspace would indeed just pass right through it harmlessly.

I mean, do we really want to believe that this is the first time this technology was used as a weapon in the known galaxy? Nobody in the whole known galaxy ever thought of it until a purple haired lady in a wrinkly dress came up with it for the first time?

So the real problem as I see it is this is a writing problem. This would definitely have been a known issue in space combat, perhaps for thousands of years ship captains would have known of this. Surely it would have, and with all of their technology and advancements, as well as the incredible expense of planets and empires in developing all of these spaceships and putting them up in space, doesn't it make sense that there would be safeguards already in place to defend a ship from this very sort of attack?

Suspension of disbelief, man. I mean, if you're going to poke holes at things like this why start now? Why weren't there debates made for why no one was attempting to use light speed as a weapon in the first place? No one thought "damn, that might be a powerful tool, why hasn't either side attempted to weaponize it?". But that would poke holes in the beloved OT, and we can't have that. Anything beyond that is fair game though, right?

Anyway, a valid argument I suppose to my first question but it doesn't address the other two I asked. Again, why assume just anyone would be willing to sacrifice themselves? Not to mention an army so willingly sacrificing it's ship or it's resources for such a maneuver. And why assume this tactic would be used in such a cavalier way that you would have expected to see it so commonly used?

[JP Sarri]

Originally Posted by qz33

I'll bring some back in the day nerdy for everyone here.
This is what I know from many years ago from before even the prequels.

The ships they were flying were Mon Calamari (Ackbar's race) ships. Originally the Calamari didn't enter the Wars until near Return of the Jedi. (Yeah I know Rogue One upsets that too.)
The Mon Calamari were extremely adept at making tough shielding as a result to their peaceful nature, more interested in defense than offense. That is what allowed much of the rebel fleet to "get closer to those Star Destroyers" and last as long as they did during the battle of Endor in Return of the Jedi.

As alluded to in The Last Jedi these shields were still something special because the First Order still couldn't destroy them as they had expected.
So maybe it's all in the comparative shield strength.

As far as why not just hyperspace around and kamikaze everything, until The Force Awakens I never took that hyperspace travel was so precise as to actually aim for something while in it. Yeah it takes precise calculations but that still doesn't mean they fly within meters of planets or stars in hyperspace.

I hadn't thought of the bombs in space logic myself but I guess since the ships have artificial gravity it's possible this extends past the ship for a bit and the bigger the ship the farther the extension.

Yeah I know those are a stretch but it really is all there is. And yeah if the Rebels/Resistance had a nuclear option you can bet it would be at the forefront of their minds as they were up against planet and star system killers that had already took the lives of billions. a bit too far in regards of trying to do something new within the workings of old established mechanisms.

Bravo.

[JP Sarri]

99.95% of the population will choose life over martyrdom. That’s just a fact. As glamorous as it may seem, no one goes to war expecting to die. It is a natural survival instinct. Also, battles are not won by sacrificing soldiers, ammunition and/or transport unless extremely necessary. It is the art of war 101. Personally, I found this action in TLJ very clever.

[MrYac]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

It's not "hitting" something per se (a star, in this case) that is the issue. Other canon material has since elaborated that it's essentially gravity that can wreak havok and pull a ship out of hyperspace... destructively even.

maybe, but the fact that he said "fly through a star" to me implies that hitting it would be the problem and not just the gravity.

[galactus]

Originally Posted by Luminous

First, who says it is common knowledge in the Star Wars universe that jumping into light speed towards an enemy combatant will yield the results we saw in TLJ? Isn't it possible that Holdo had no idea how effective her desperate maneuver would be?

Second, even if it is common knowledge, why does everyone assume it would be a common and acceptable tactic in any given military force? The Japanese have used a kamikaze tactic in the past, did we see every other military force on this planet suddenly adopt the maneuver for their own battles? And please don't bring up extremist examples. That would not apply to either military force in Star Wars.

And finally, the maneuver yielded near nuclear results. Since when is the nuclear option the first, second, or even third strategic option in warfare?

You're so desperate to defend this film is hilarious

[galactus]

Originally Posted by T.MAC

Just one more example of how TLJ sucked donkey balls.

And that's a fact.

Donkey.


Balls.