Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 - What Crap!

[risingstar]

Originally Posted by PureInvasion

I can understand and respect everything you said, but still...it's a comic character. It's meant to tell a story regardless of origins. If they thought of this story ages ago, they may have run it. Who knows?

Just because a character has a past doesn't mean it can't have a future. Characters and stories have to evolve to stay interesting. Frankly I grew tired of Cap comics. How many times can you watch the dude punch Hydra? A change of pace is refreshing and we all know it'll be back to the status quo (aka Spidey) eventually anyway. Enjoy the ride. I will and pretty sure Spencer will deliver something fun

This type of response strikes me as falling under the ''if it doesn't impact you personally'' umbrella, then who cares? After all, it's all just harmless fiction to which, in and of itself, is a medium which should be free to express, offend, to its hearts' content with little to no responsibility as to how it might be experienced by others. Sure, there's the modicum of sympathy from some who appear cognizant of the plot twist's offensive nature, if only to not appear like an insensitive putz, but at the end of the day, crapping on this part of Cap' origins is fine as it likely doesn't hit them close to home. I wonder what the response would have been if it turned out that Cap was secretly a sleeper Al Queda agent or Islamic fundamentalist who supported the events of 9/11, I imagine it might hit some people differently.

All this to say, just because you could, doesn't mean you should.

[PureInvasion]

Originally Posted by risingstar

This type of response strikes me as falling under the ''if it doesn't impact you personally'' umbrella, then who cares? After all, it's all just harmless fiction to which, in and of itself, is a medium which should be free to express, offend, to its hearts' content with little to no responsibility as to how it might be experienced by others. Sure, there's the modicum of sympathy from some who appear cognizant of the plot twist's offensive nature, if only to not appear like an insensitive putz, but at the end of the day, crapping on this part of Cap' origins is fine as it likely doesn't hit them close to home. I wonder what the response would have been if it turned out that Cap was secretly a sleeper Al Queda agent or Islamic fundamentalist who supported the events of 9/11, I imagine it might hit some people differently.

All this to say, just because you could, doesn't mean you should.

Actually, my response was more of 'it's a story so who cares?'. I understand his history and why many find this repulsive. Maybe I'm just better at being able to accept a 'story' for what it is and not get invested in it personally. I love these characters, but am always excited for something that hasn't been done. Any current comic reader (and I know many who complain in this section are not even current readers anymore) should love something fresh that hasn't been done.

Characters get very stale after awhile and need a change (albeit a temporary one). You can say that they need to hire new writers that will respect a characters past while telling interesting stories in a modern age. Simply put, those stories will just be retreads on what we've seen a million times.

Spencer is a fun writer, let the guy tell his story. Maybe the world does need Trump as President (I'm truly sick of the censoring and the need to tiptoe around everything in life lately). It needs to take a chill pill and just enjoy the comic medium for what it is, fiction.

As I said earlier, I can respect those that are offended, but it doesn't mean this story shouldn't exist. I can think of a million garbage comic stories of every character that shouldn't exist, but they do. If there is 1 story out there that is 'repulsive', but ends up being seriously amazing at the end of the day, I'll take it.

All this from a guy who loves the medium and can just relax and enjoy the issues as they hit. I'm a current (monthly) comic reader. How many others here can even say that anymore?

(And Cap as a sleeper 'anything' agent would be a fun story)

[wktf]

I am a current monthly comic book reader and have been one for close to 50 years.

Once again, I disagree with you about characters' getting stale. John Byrne and Mark Waid proved there still was glory in the traditional take on the Fantastic Four, a property nearly all writers after Stan Lee haven't gotten right, and appears to be stale (but isn't). Waid also proved this with Captain America and Daredevil. The core of a great character makes him great. Byrne also proved this with Superman and Scott Snyder recently proved this with Batman. The list goes on, from Frank Miller to Walt Simonson to Ed Brubaker, of writers who've created exciting, fresh and fun stories without changing the core of a character's greatness...in fact, by emphasizing it. Keeping a great character true to his core is central to telling great stories, for the character's future, to your point, and great writers like the ones I mentioned prove that.

I really disagree with your point of "It's a story so who cares?" I won't go over the same territory from my last post to explain this. You read that already.

If you're going to turn a character against his very core, then just create a new character rather than whiplash fans of a character they've loved for decades. DC Comics just proved they learned this lesson with their "Rebirth" apology to their fans for the New 52 debacle that hurt their sales and left their fans turning their backs on the company.

I've never liked a thing Spencer has written. And the world does NOT need Trump as the next president. But those are just my opinions on those matters.

Certainly, stick to your opinion unless you change it. I don't agree with you, but I appreciate your reading and respecting my point of view.

[MrJones]

Originally Posted by Luminous

I'll be honest, while I found this new "character twist" silly and ridiculous it didn't really bother me because I knew it wouldn't last. Cap would still be the same Cap we grew up with before the story arc was over. However, this article certainly opened my eyes to another perspective. I agree with her that this is more than another "Death of" gimmick or whatever other ridiculous and very temporary idea they come up with to push sales. It's flat out insulting.

It's not only insulting to readers like Jessica Plummer, but to Cap's creators, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Not because Marvel has deviated from their original vision, but because Marvel didn't think to consider what that vision meant Simon and Kirby. On both a personal and social level. The comic reading Jewish community just took a huge slap to the face. And while this can easily be tossed aside as entirely fictional premise therefore not really being an "issue" or insulting to some of you, I suggest you simply show some consideration for those who are troubled by this. This doesn't affect me on a personal level like it clearly will for some, but I can certainly sympathize and understand where they're coming from.

I completely agree with you. I didn't really think much of it until that article showed another perspective to me.

[moon_knight1971]

saw a fan theory on ign that states a mysterious child with a cosmic cube type device is the culprit behind this. The theory suggests that she may have been manipulated by Baron Zemo who happened to be in the story BOTH times the child assisted Rogers. She's the kid who basically "restored" Cap back to his youthful self after the super solider serum was taken away from his body not too long ago.

[MrJones]

So I just started reading the Trial of Capt America omnibus and the first part of it revolves around Steve Rodgers being "off the grid" while Bucky has the mantle of Capt America and is trying to take down a whole other psycho Capt America. So even in just this book there are 3 Capt Americas. They could just make this hydra one a clone or something so he has all the memories of Steve or something.

[PureInvasion]

Stan Lee even said the idea was really clever in a recent interview. Said he'd never have thought it up, but Cap as a possible double agent is 'crazy, but a good idea'.

Even he can appreciate it as just a story...

[JP Sarri]

Originally Posted by PureInvasion

Stan Lee even said the idea was really clever in a recent interview. Said he'd never have thought it up, but Cap as a possible double agent is 'crazy, but a good idea'.

Even he can appreciate it as just a story...

Don't forget that anything floats Stan's boat nowadays. He already made his money so he doesn't really care. After all, Cap was created by Kirby and Simon but Lee was the one cashing in on their idea.

[wktf]

Originally Posted by PureInvasion

Stan Lee even said the idea was really clever in a recent interview. Said he'd never have thought it up, but Cap as a possible double agent is 'crazy, but a good idea'.

Even he can appreciate it as just a story...

You and I will never agree on your point that it's "just a story." And Stan will say anything to support Marvel. I'm sure it's in his contract with them.

[PureInvasion]

Originally Posted by JP Sarri

Don't forget that anything floats Stan's boat nowadays. He already made his money so he doesn't really care. After all, Cap was created by Kirby and Simon but Lee was the one cashing in on their idea.

I like the fact that 'anything floats his boat'. In a world where you have to tiptoe around every little thing so you never come close to offending anyone, it's nice to see someone of that age who's open to ideas.