Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED **

[Augen]

Originally Posted by MrYac

considering the rebels accomplished dick-all with the empire in the last 40 years kind of negates their impact in the original movies already no?

I never expected complex in depth world building, but it all feels so shallow that nothing has any consequence.

You blew up our super weapon? Blew it up again? Blew it up a third time?

We probably lost millions of troops, but oh well, see you next movie to do it again.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron

Yet Lucas made the prequels before the Disney buy out, so he himself then contradicted the meaning by allowing Anakin to destroy the Jedi originally. It's in fact Luke who ends up turning Vader away from the Darkside and ends up destroying the emperor. Which would mean Lucas went against his own prophecy.

This is why I've always felt Lucas lost his way, the prequels contradict so much of the OT and people tend to ignore it.

Also I know a great many considered the EU Canon particularly The Jedi Academy Trilogy.

He didn't contradict, he just extended the timeline and took more twists and turns before it ended up being true, by the end of ROTJ. Anakin destroyed the Sith...he just also happened to decimate the Jedi. The prophecy was pretty narrow and left a lot of room for ambiguity. Luke influenced his father, but Anakin still made the decision and committed the act. But again, there was still no balance between the Light and Dark, as the Sith were destroyed but there were at least several Jedi remaining.

As for canon, there were tiers established, whereby some people accepted some things as more or less canon. Quite convoluted - but I loved the EU.

But as I said, none of it was canon to Lucas. It was just the movies, and maybe a couple other things toward the end, just before he sold it. The Clone Wars series (which kept it's canonicity), and Force Unleashed videogame, for example.

[Josh-a-tron]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

He didn't contradict, he just extended the timeline and took more twists and turns before it ended up being true, by the end of ROTJ. Anakin destroyed the Sith...he just also happened to decimate the Jedi. The prophecy was pretty narrow and left a lot of room for ambiguity. Luke influenced his father, but Anakin still made the decision and committed the act. But again, there was still no balance between the Light and Dark, as the Sith were destroyed but there were at least several Jedi remaining.

As for canon, there were tiers established, whereby some people accepted some things as more or less canon. Quite convoluted - but I loved the EU.

But as I said, none of it was canon to Lucas. It was just the movies, and maybe a couple other things toward the end, just before he sold it. The Clone Wars series (which kept it's canonicity), and Force Unleashed videogame, for example.

I disagree, Some of the things that were said by Obi-wan in the OT, such as when he met Anakin and who trained who and how were all contradicted by the PT. It's part of the reason so many felt Lucas didn't have a grasp on where the story should have gone.

Yep, I remember the tiers. I also loved quite a bit of the EU especially some of the comics and novels.

As for Lucas, the second he sold the Franchise he gave up on having any say in where the story should go. I'm perfectly fine with what they've done so far as I don't feel it's in anyway disrespectiful to the rest of the saga, especially if you like the EU then you know Luke was never just the guy who defeated the Empire and walked the straight an narrow Jedi line the entire time. He wasn't perfect, just like Obi-wan and Yoda were not perfect.

I think that's why so many people feel that TLJ was some how against all they knew, but I feel it just tapped into the fact that no matter how perfect someone might seem they never really are.

Anyway, Are you going to see Rise of Skywalker, or are you sitting this one out?

[off]

I ordered tickets, brand new Alamo Drafthouse opening and showing this as one of their first movies so I couldn't resist.

[built2shred]

Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron

I disagree, Some of the things that were said by Obi-wan in the OT, such as when he met Anakin and who trained who and how were all contradicted by the PT. It's part of the reason so many felt Lucas didn't have a grasp on where the story should have gone.

Yep, I remember the tiers. I also loved quite a bit of the EU especially some of the comics and novels.

As for Lucas, the second he sold the Franchise he gave up on having any say in where the story should go. I'm perfectly fine with what they've done so far as I don't feel it's in anyway disrespectiful to the rest of the saga, especially if you like the EU then you know Luke was never just the guy who defeated the Empire and walked the straight an narrow Jedi line the entire time. He wasn't perfect, just like Obi-wan and Yoda were not perfect.

I think that's why so many people feel that TLJ was some how against all they knew, but I feel it just tapped into the fact that no matter how perfect someone might seem they never really are.

Anyway, Are you going to see Rise of Skywalker, or are you sitting this one out?

TLJ was just a bad movie all around. Rian Johnson did a horrible job as writer & director for this movie. Kathleen Kennedy might have some impressive movies under her name but lets be honest she rode Lucas and Spielberg's coat tails to get where she is, now that she's in charge she just keeps fumbling the ball.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron

I disagree, Some of the things that were said by Obi-wan in the OT, such as when he met Anakin and who trained who and how were all contradicted by the PT. It's part of the reason so many felt Lucas didn't have a grasp on where the story should have gone.

Yep, I remember the tiers. I also loved quite a bit of the EU especially some of the comics and novels.

As for Lucas, the second he sold the Franchise he gave up on having any say in where the story should go. I'm perfectly fine with what they've done so far as I don't feel it's in anyway disrespectiful to the rest of the saga, especially if you like the EU then you know Luke was never just the guy who defeated the Empire and walked the straight an narrow Jedi line the entire time. He wasn't perfect, just like Obi-wan and Yoda were not perfect.

I think that's why so many people feel that TLJ was some how against all they knew, but I feel it just tapped into the fact that no matter how perfect someone might seem they never really are.

Anyway, Are you going to see Rise of Skywalker, or are you sitting this one out?

I'm not saying that Lucas was contradiction-free when going from the original trilogy to the prequels, but I believe the specific point regarding the underlying theme of balance and redemption never changed under Lucas. What you mention (story beats), that were never fully fleshed out until he sat down to write them... I can understand and accept those kinds of contradictions.

Disrespectful? I can understand that complaint, but that's emotional. I concern myself more with what I see as illogical, or inconsistent decision making and/or writing. Disney of course can do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily make it smart, either technically, or more to Disney's concern - monetarily.

To your last question, I admit I can't back up my position with conviction, as I will always be there for Star Wars, the instant of it's first showing. Tickets bought!

I'm a night owl, so I miss the midnight (and summertime, for that matter) openings though.

[off]

TLJ was a flaming pile of trash.

I thought the prequels were awful until I saw the TLJ.

[Josh-a-tron]

Originally Posted by built2shred

TLJ was just a bad movie all around. Rian Johnson did a horrible job as writer & director for this movie. Kathleen Kennedy might have some impressive movies under her name but lets be honest she rode Lucas and Spielberg's coat tails to get where she is, now that she's in charge she just keeps fumbling the ball.

I don't find it to be a bad movie at all. I think most of the complaints about the movie have to do with how fans feel the characters were, not about the actual film itself. Like I said, if you read the EU comics and novels, Luke was never portrayed as perfect; in fact he turned to the Darkside, had doubts about being able to revitalize the Jedi Order and worried about failure. He had flaws.

Take out what you think Luke "should" be and just take it as it is and the movie itself, I think, stands up well.

[Josh-a-tron]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

I'm not saying that Lucas was contradiction-free when going from the original trilogy to the prequels, but I believe the specific point regarding the underlying theme of balance and redemption never changed under Lucas. What you mention (story beats), that were never fully fleshed out until he sat down to write them... I can understand and accept those kinds of contradictions.

Disrespectful? I can understand that complaint, but that's emotional. I concern myself more with what I see as illogical, or inconsistent decision making and/or writing. Disney of course can do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily make it smart, either technically, or more to Disney's concern - monetarily.

To your last question, I admit I can't back up my position with conviction, as I will always be there for Star Wars, the instant of it's first showing. Tickets bought!

I'm a night owl, so I miss the midnight (and summertime, for that matter) openings though.

Like I said before, I enjoyed the last two films. I think they pushed the series to places only the EU had done before. I know some don't like it, but for me it's a step forward.

I'm with you, I'm at the theater, probably the Monday morning after opening weekend...I can't take movie crowds much anymore and have Mondays off so that's usually when I go.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron

Like I said before, I enjoyed the last two films. I think they pushed the series to places only the EU had done before. I know some don't like it, but for me it's a step forward.

I'm with you, I'm at the theater, probably the Monday morning after opening weekend...I can't take movie crowds much anymore and have Mondays off so that's usually when I go.

Yeah, I hate people. They're the worst. Usually...

But I make an exception for Star Wars. Despite not liking TLJ, it's always been great to be in the theater for a couple hours, waiting for the premiere with so many Star Wars geeks. The cosplayers, trivia, etc. Everyone's just... nice, and want to see a good product.