Star Wars Episode VII (The Spoilers Thread)

[gomur]

Just got back. Finn was a lot of fun and humorous. Very good chemistry with Rey - compare that to Padme and Anakin, yeesh! I started to suspect that Finn was the "Jedi decoy" going into the movie. Harrison Ford stole the show for me. From the moment Han gets on screen his charisma just draws you in. It was great to see the old gang. Chewie was endearing as well. Felt the poor Wookiee's pain when his pal bit the dust. Best non-human performance may have been BB8 though. That little robo can emote!

Enjoyed it overall but some parts nagged me. Kylo Ren. Really glad those theories of him being Luke didn't pan out. That he was related to Han I thought upped the ante and made things personal. They kinda glossed over what he did to join the dark side. I kinda remember something about a student of Luke's going dark and killing the other students, which drove him into hiding??

Biggest thing that raised my brow was the final fight in the snow. Kylo who is supposed to be a big bad (or mini boss at minimum), a trained Jedi, gets beaten by Rey rather unceremoniously. I mean, the guy holds a frakkin energy blast in his opening scene. That sets the ceiling pretty high. And he's beaten by a girl with no training in the force or lightsabers AT ALL. I shouldn't say "girl" because I'd be just as irritated if it were Finn going over clean on him. He didn't use his force powers once during the fight. Just felt forced/contrived, like here's the part where the good guys triumph. And it did kind of kill his heat (to keep with the wrasslin jargon).

Anyway, those are my immediate thoughts. I'll let the experience permeate a little more. Did enjoy it though.

[nbr3bagshotrow]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

My criticism goes back to my point about it echoing the major story beats of ANH, RotJ and to a far lesser extent TPM too much.

Find unaware hero in waiting on a dessert planet, droid containing precious top secret information is sought, big bad has a familial connection to to the heroes, old mentor character with historical ties to the characters encouraging hero to embrace their destiny, death of a beloved mentor hero character in moment if self sacrifice, planet destroying super weapon, heroes exploit small flaw in design to destroy said weapon pending it firing in a seemingly hopeless battle....

This is all minor but honestly my biggest critique is that did we really need both of the big force users for the new triliogy tied to Skywalkers once again?!?!?! Ren OR Rey would have been enough, (and I am hoping against hope that Rey is not a Skywalker). The first bold move? Bad ass Jedi or Sith that has no Skywalker lineage! More than anything that was a big detractor for me; to the point I almost assume that the eviserated Ren will literally become the new Darth Vader once he is rebuilt.

I know you are referring to the death of Han as "the bold choice" but going in I knew it was him that was going to die; too logical. Harrison is (was) tough to pin down for films like this now and quite honestly he is old. Had he passed away in real life wrapping up Hans story with him onscreen would have been lost to them.

The other bold choice I saw was having Ren actually turn away from the Dark Side, or at least try to. Having him defect in some manner would have set up an amazing device for future films.

All that is not to say I didn't enjoy the film immensely; it is just not "the greatest movie evar" and beyond reproach

Since Luke is the "last" Jedi, it wouldn't be too much of a jump to say last with connection with the Force and that Rey would have to be a Skywalker to also have that connection with the Force.

Your whole first paragraph about the similarities of ANH and TFA is my biggest issue with it. Hell, even had their own "Cantina" scene. I would have thought a little more originality when it came to plot.

[EnShinNoi]

Originally Posted by gomur

Biggest thing that raised my brow was the final fight in the snow. Kylo who is supposed to be a big bad (or mini boss at minimum), a trained Jedi, gets beaten by Rey rather unceremoniously. I mean, the guy holds a frakkin energy blast in his opening scene. That sets the ceiling pretty high. And he's beaten by a girl with no training in the force or lightsabers AT ALL. I shouldn't say "girl" because I'd be just as irritated if it were Finn going over clean on him. He didn't use his force powers once during the fight. Just felt forced/contrived, like here's the part where the good guys triumph. And it did kind of kill his heat (to keep with the wrasslin jargon).

Kylo Ren was suffering from a heavy injury inflicted by Chewie. That's partly why he lost. The movie made sure to point that injury out during the fight on more than one occasion.

[gomur]

Originally Posted by EnShinNoi

Kylo Ren was suffering from a heavy injury inflicted by Chewie. That's partly why he lost. The movie made sure to point that injury out during the fight on more than one occasion.

Man, I want to give the movie that out. I really do. But again, you saw what he could do. HE SUSPENDS AN ENERGY BLAST IN THE AIR! Even 25% of him should've been enough to whip Finn and Rey. Actually the way he put Finn down should've been enough for an untrained Rey. Anyway, just too big a grain of salt for me to accept.

[Vallos]

Negatives:

• The plot was too similar to EP3. The assault on the Star Killer (nice nod to Luke’s original surname), immediately led me to conclude Han’s death before that fateful scene was shown.
• Leia should have hugged Chewie first and not Rey. That was my “WTF” moment for me. How could she not seek immediate solace with him? Chewie is essentially Solo’s brother, so I was completely baffled by that exchange.
• Phasma was easily coursed to lower the shields. Even with her limited screen time, we had enough information to gather she is formidable due to her position within the First Order. That scene should have been with one of the First Order officers. The one that said… “We won’t survive this”, comes to mind, not the Captain who “reconditions” Stormtroopers at the first sign of “deprograming”. Phasma was wasted in the scene. She lost most, if not all, her powerful and mysterious presence.
• Finn yielding the light saber. I find it hard to believe he lasted that long with Ren.

Positives:

• Rey! I absolutely love her and Daisy Ridley portrayed her perfectly. While her awakening and handling of the force was a bit rushed – she was much more powerful at this stage, than Luke at his – I resonated with her journey the most. Strong willed, and entirely confident in her decisions, she will be a formidable Jedi. I think her to be Luke’s daughter.
• Finn was wonderfully refreshing. His awakening was unique and his humor was spot on. You can tell John Boyega had fun playing this character and it translated well. A wonderful addition to the new cast!
• Han’s journey was nicely done. I did not have a problem with his death, as I found it to be impactful. I just didn’t like how it was handled afterwards. The soft caress he gave his son was touching and heartfelt. As if to say, “I still have hope for you my son”. Remember this touch I give you, in this your greatest act of such great horror.” Harrison did well in that scene, as in all the other scenes.
• Cinematography was brilliant and breathtaking. Especially the scenes with Rey among the ruins on Jakku.
• Poe Dameron is a hell of a pilot!
• The aerial battles were thrilling, and the first chase scene with the Falcon on Jakku was awesome!
• The CG wasn’t overly used and the animatronics and puppets were a welcomed return!


This is what I have from the top of my head. I'm going to see it several more times so I'll have more to like or dislike. Overall, I will give it an 8. It was a thrilling, emotional and humorous ride. A nice setup for the new trilogy. I’ll reserve my judgement on Snoke and Kylo’s character development, as I expect greater exposition for these two to be handled in EP8. I am pleased with what JJ did. After watching it, I had a sense of relief, both from watching a thrilling movie and from not experience a bad Star Wars movie. The Force is indeed AWAKENED!

[Demona]

Was I the only one not moved when Han died?

I wasn't sad, choked up or disappointed because it was painfully predictable. That along with lack of emotional dialogue and backstory made it just a death.

If SW has taught me anything, it's to beware of platforms without guardrails. Nothing good ever happens on them.



And Rey is ridiculously strong in the force. That's why she beat Kylo-Ren who is crumbling due to his emotional struggle. Untainted, unharnessed purity will beat emotionally scarred almost all the time.

[EnShinNoi]

Originally Posted by gomur

Man, I want to give the movie that out. I really do. But again, you saw what he could do. HE SUSPENDS AN ENERGY BLAST IN THE AIR! Even 25% of him should've been enough to whip Finn and Rey. Actually the way he put Finn down should've been enough for an untrained Rey. Anyway, just too big a grain of salt for me to accept.

I agree. The injury was a cheap plot device but it at least helped me believe that battle. Along with his emotions being in turmoil and anger clouding better judgement.

[Vallos]

You are not the only one Demona. My friend had the exact same reaction as you.

I agree with you on your assessment on Rey and Kylo's fight.

[gomur]

Originally Posted by EnShinNoi

I agree. The injury was a cheap plot device but it at least helped me believe that battle. Along with his emotions being in turmoil and anger clouding better judgement.

Okay, the emotional turmoil I can buy more than the blaster wound. The guy just offed his dad after all. Wish they sold that more than the wound. Maybe having a difficult time focusing on his force powers before getting to the snow.

[nbr3bagshotrow]

So are we to assume Luke was Kylo Rens trainer in the force?