P1 - SSC Debacle

[Zombiez]

Originally Posted by gagaliya

And where do you want to move those 100% skill based manual labor?

To US or Japan means you will pay 3x minimum.

To other cheap labor countries, means you will get sht back and start whining even more about quality.

There is a reason you have statue collectible companies all over the world including cheap labor countries, but every single one of those companies make their statues in China.

The only company I know of who didnt, is attakus, which is made in France, costing an arm and leg. Look how that worked out for them....

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

The reality of the situation is that LONG TERM they will have to move and adapt to the changing economic and political climate.

In the future Tensions between america and china will only increase. America is most likely the biggest market for these expensive collectibles therefore if a company wants to maintain competitiveness in the american market they will have to find away around these tariffs or move productions elsewhere.

Other companies in other industries have already begun preparing themselves for tensions to get worse. Toys and collectibles can be made elsewhere with the same quality. Hasbro has started moving away from china, FIRST the big boys move then the smaller boys will.

[Phoenixblazes]

Originally Posted by Zombiez

The reality of the situation is that LONG TERM they will have to move and adapt to the changing economic and political climate.

In the future Tensions between america and china will only increase. America is most likely the biggest market for these expensive collectibles therefore if a company wants to maintain competitiveness in the america market they will have to find away around these tariffs or move productions elsewhere.

Other companies in other industries have already begun preparing themselves for tensions to get worse. Toys and collectibles can be made elsewhere with the same quality, Hasbro has started moving away from china FIRST the big boys move then the smaller boys will.

You’re right. But it all depends on how long this can last. As things can change as soon as any political situation changes. China is probably waiting to see if there is a change in administration at the next election, which is anyone’s guess which way that will fall, but China is probably banking in either case that they will be able to weather the storm better than the US.

And the ironic thing is, these tariffs aren’t even going to achieve what the US political administration says it’s meant to do (other than hurt China (and everyone else)). It’s simply going to move US imports from one low cost nation to another and will not improve the US’s terms of trade and reduce their trade deficit. I believe it’s actually increased over the last few months, it’s just that some has moved to other countries and for the foreseeable future a lot of products are still being made in China, which in the end simply means more expensive products worldwide with costs passed on to the consumer.

Not that I’ll be able to pay for some of these more expensive items as Australia will most likely be in a recession for the first time in almost 3 decades, as our trading account is too closely aligned with however well or not China is doing, and we don’t have the reserves (budget/cash/monetary) that we did the last time the major countries of the world stuffed up things last time. Heck our share market only recently reached the level that it was pre global financial crisis.

[Zombiez]

Originally Posted by Phoenixblazes

You’re right. But it all depends on how long this can last. As things can change as soon as any political situation changes. China is probably waiting to see if there is a change in administration at the next election, which is anyone’s guess which way that will fall, but China is probably banking in either case that they will be able to weather the storm better than the US.

And the ironic thing is, these tariffs aren’t even going to achieve what the US political administration says it’s meant to do (other than hurt China (and everyone else)). It’s simply going to move US imports from one low cost nation to another and will not improve the US’s terms of trade and reduce their trade deficit. I believe it’s actually increased over the last few months, it’s just that some has moved to other countries and for the foreseeable future a lot of products are still being made in China, which in the end simply means more expensive products worldwide with costs passed on to the consumer.

Not that I’ll be able to pay for some of these more expensive items as Australia will most likely be in a recession for the first time in almost 3 decades, as our trading account is too closely aligned with however well or not China is doing, and we don’t have the reserves (budget/cash/monetary) that we did the last time the major countries of the world stuffed up things last time. Heck our share market only recently reached the level that it was pre global financial crisis.

Even if america gets a new administration ( Not likely) certain elements within the america political class, media and intelligence agencies have already seriously turned against china. SO these problems are here to stay. I don't think these people are worried too much about trade deficits they just don't want a large one with china anymore because of larger security concerns.

As america slowly turns china into the new U.S.S.R This will affect the prices and distributions of the things we love like statues.

[gagaliya]

Originally Posted by Zombiez

The reality of the situation is that LONG TERM they will have to move and adapt to the changing economic and political climate.

In the future Tensions between america and china will only increase. America is most likely the biggest market for these expensive collectibles therefore if a company wants to maintain competitiveness in the american market they will have to find away around these tariffs or move productions elsewhere.

Other companies in other industries have already begun preparing themselves for tensions to get worse. Toys and collectibles can be made elsewhere with the same quality. Hasbro has started moving away from china, FIRST the big boys move then the smaller boys will.

you are talking about very different things.

1) unskilled manual labor can be moved easily - such as making cloth, socks, etc.. and many brands have moved out of china to places like cambodia, pakistan, vietnam etc.. just look at the tag the next time you buy cloth. It's very easy to setup a makeshift factory

2) highly automated products - such as hasbro toys etc.. they are the next to move, it does require expertise to setup the machinery assembly lines but after everything is running, it can be easily managed with local cheap labor with a small skilled supervisory team from the foreign country + local skilled labor. Many are in the process of moving out of china as well

3) highly automated products with many dependencies - such as the iPhones, tvs, where to make the product, you need to source 1000s other little specialized parts. Right now the supply chain is still in china, for example if i need some special screws i can just order from the factory down the block and have it in hand in a week, if i need a custom bolt i make a call to another vendor 30 mins away etc..and it be here tomorrow. If i move my factory to cambodia...sure i can still assemble my product but if i need a special screw or part, where the heck am i going to get it? wait 3 month to have it shipped from china? - This is what the trump admin is really trying to do, to make doing business so difficult in china, that the entire supply chain moves out of the country, thus crippling the manufacturing economy forever. You need to reach a threshold then all the lemmings will follow, we not there yet.

4) Skilled 100% manual labor - it will be case by case dependent on industry, for collectible statues, this is not happening. No other countries have army of skilled cheap labors who can use airbrush well, who can cast properly, it's such a specialized niche skillset. You need the expertise to move there, then train a whole army of people, to make it viable. This is not happening.

What those statue company really should do, is invest in r&d to automate making/painting all the parts using machines. The technology is there, industry has moved pretty much to all digital sculpt instead of hand sculpt nowadays, next step is to break down the statue into smaller parts, so they can be individually made and painted by machine (also eliminate a lot of the paint issues people have) - think those gundam models but painted and with resin, then finally assembled back into full statue. Then you dont need the manual labor anymore, but noone wants to spend the money to invest or innovate. We have no disruptors, xm prime1 etc..disrupted the market with their wow factor in term of sculpt/paint, but the manufacture method is still the same.

[gagaliya]

also china is a huge market with tons of consumer spending - 1.3 billion people, if companies make their stuff in china, they can sell it in china without taxes. Reason why tesla just opened a gigantic factory there.

It's not so much an issue with sideshow/xm/prime1, since no local collectors buy the branded statues, they just buy the recast at 1/3 the cost that are painted/made same quality as the original, or in sideshow's case - actually much better than the original.

for hot toys it's a different story, the market in china is HUGE, they get sold out instantly for many releases (kind like the us market 10? years ago). very little recast, people all buy the real deal and pay lots money for them. I had to order plenty of hot toys iron man crap (which i personally dont care for) from the us for my friends in china, because the local stores are all soldout of the preorders. So they get made in china, get shipped to us, then to me, then i ship/bring them back to china to my friend, so silly.