Rebirth Question

[wktf]

I've picked up Action, Superman, Batman, Detective and Green Arrow. The only one that's passable for me is Superman and the rest were extremely weak. I won't be getting any of them going forward with the exception of Superman. I still want to pick up Aquaman but haven't yet.

[wktf]

Originally Posted by Parallax

So basically Flashpoint changed the universe, but then when Barry fixed it, the universe fixed itself. However, instead of going back to normal, Doctor Manhattan screwed with time and changed the universe. The end result was a universe that's missing 10 years of time, which includes 10 years of changes that nobody knows happened. The reason that Lois and Clark remember a different universe is because during Convergence they were taken out of time and then place into the New 52 universe. So it's the same New 52 Clark, just from the past before he had his time messed with. He remembers his world as different because he still has all of the memories from Pre-Flashpoint. Just like Wally does. The Titans and Barry remember Wally, but they don't remember everything yet.

It is the same Barry, the same Titans, the same Batman, the same everyone. Even the same Superman. He just remembers things differently because like Wally he never went through Doctor Manhattan's time tampering.

I don't think the current Superman is the New 52 Superman. Lex commented in Action that he seems older and more confident, and the Lois & Clark book confirmed he's the post-Crisis/pre-New 52 Superman. If he were the New 52 Superman then who's the Superman who died? I've been reading but am having trouble following, and this from a college English major.

[Parallax]

That's because New 52 Superman had 10 years of his life taken from him. 10 years of experience that no longer exists. 10 years of confidence that no longer exists. The current Superman is New 52 Superman from the past. During Convergence, he was plucked out of his time (before Flashpoint) and plopped into the current time (post Flashpoint, or New 52). Because he never lived through the Flashpoint event, he never had the 10 years of his life stolen from him. Meaning that although Superman is technically older in the New 52, he's missing 10 years of his life. The current Superman, although younger, has those 10 years that he would have lost during Flashpoint. That's why he's a more experienced Superman.

[wktf]

This doesn't make sense to me. I'm not trying to argue, and maybe this is semantics, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The dead Superman was the New 52 Superman, I thought. The current Superman, from the Lois & Clark book, while present during New 52 as it turns out, was from pre-Flashpoint and, thus, not missing memories from before New 52 and, thus, not the New 52 Superman.

[Parallax]

I made some pictures to help me explain.

This is the DC timeline as we new it just over a year ago. Barry created the Flashpoint, which in turn created the New 52.



However, a year ago Convergence was released. During Convergence, Telos traveled out of space and time and collected cities from the history of DC to fight against each other. One of those cities was Post Crisis (or Pre-Flashpoint) Metropolis. Knowing how time travel works, that means we now have multiple Lois and Clarks (as well as every other character involved) meaning that there are many versions of the same person from the past. Characters that never passed through the timeline change. (For example, Hal Jordan was taken from the past as Parallax, even though there was a modern day version of Hal Jordan already in existence.)



After defeating Telos, Lois and Clark from Post Crisis Metropolis wound up in the New 52. Since New 52 is the future of the Post Crisis timeline, Lois and Clark ended up in the future.



It's revealed in the DC UNIVERSE: REBIRTH special, that Doctor Manhattan tampered with the timeline during Flashpoint. He took away 10 years of time. Not just random time. He intentionally took memories, love, and important events from people. He essentially created a fresh start. You can see below that Lois and Clark moving through Convergence did not move through the same timeline that Lois and Clark moving through Flashpoint did. Therefore, when Doctor Manhattan took 10 years of everyone's life away, Post Crisis Lois and Clark were unaffected since they never traveled on that timeline. Now we have two versions of the same Lois and Clark. One from the present and one from the past, both living in the present. New 52 Clark, who is the future version of Post Crisis Clark, dies (or "dies" if you're reading Action Comics). Now we have Clark from the past stepping up as Superman. This is the same Clark, but he didn't lose his memories, his loves, and his important events.




I hope that makes sense. I understand it's hard to explain. I also ran out of room and my Convergence arrow passes through my pink time stolen arrow, which is a very poor design flaw when you're trying to show that time wasn't stolen on the Convergence timeline.

[wktf]

Thanks for the effort on this. Much appreciated.

Seems very complicated and convoluted but, admittedly, I haven't read Convergence so maybe that's the cause of my confusion.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by wktf

Thanks for the effort on this. Much appreciated.

Seems very complicated and convoluted but, admittedly, I haven't read Convergence so maybe that's the cause of my confusion.

Convergence is definitely the reason you don't understand it.

[wktf]

Originally Posted by Parallax

Convergence is definitely the reason you don't understand it.

Fair enough. I've heard and read little beyond mediocre reviews of Covergence, which is largely corroborated by the reviews on Amazon. I've such a bad taste in my mouth over everything g DC has done, with the exception of Snyder's Batman, that I won't pick up Convergence and will just read Superman now until I otherwise feel differently.

Appreciate your and others' help in explaining all this and in answering my questions.

[Parallax]

I thought Convergence was good. Not the best thing DC has put out, but I wouldn't say it was bad. It's a bunch of characters from different time periods of DC coming together to save the universe. Pre Flashpoint Superman, Pre Crisis Barry Allen, Parallax Hal Jordan, some New 52 characters, etc.

[Marvelito]

Here is an article from Newsarama that I just read which addresses some of the questions being asked. Doesn't necessarily give any answers but let's you know others are wondering about things as well.

http://www.newsarama.com/29862-the-b...s-rebirth.html