Marvel Phase 4 (How do you rate it)

**Bullseye** · 11-15-2022, 10:18 AM

Now that Phase 4 is over with Black Panther Wakanda Forever what are people thoughts on the quality of film making, writing and overall feel for this phase?

Films:
Black Widow
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Eternals
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love and Thunder
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (yet to see so no spoilers please)

TV:
WandaVision
Loki
What If...?
Falcon and Winter Soldier
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law

A couple more to come on tv later in the year.

For me the movies have been a mixed bag of good, average and mediocre with only Spider-man getting close to great. The writing has felt rushed (reading BPWF's writing is poor), characters being shoehorned into projects to let people know they exist without contributing to the narrative of the movie.

Overall i would give the phase a C-. Mediocre and i am hoping that Phase 5 will be a big improvement and a return to form that was Phase 3.

jeremydmc · 11-15-2022, 10:58 AM

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I have actually enjoyed the TV shows more than the movies for the most part. Overall no where near as good, for me at least, as the first 3 phases.

Spider-Man was the clear standout of all the Phase 4 movies,

NorthernLadMSP · 11-15-2022, 11:11 AM

I watched all of the movies in phase 4. No Way Home and Wakanda Forever were the best of the batch. I enjoyed Multiverse solely because of Elizabeth Olsen/Scarlet Witch. If she hadn't been in the movie, I wouldn't have cared. The rest were super meh, with Black Widow and Love and Thunder being the worst.

As for the shows, I watched WandaVision, Loki and She-Hulk. I enjoyed most of WandaVision, minus the first few episodes that were boring AF. Loki wasn't interesting to me. She-Hulk was laughably awful, minus the appearances by Madisynn and Daredevil. It is amazing to me that, not only did they set out to make most men look horrible, but they made the central character look horrible too. She was supposed to be a funny, brilliant lawyer, and she ended up just being a sad mess who got fired multiple times and was so desperate for any man's attention, she'd open her legs to anyone who gave her the slightest bit of positive attention. Yet, she didn't like being "catcalled," and enjoyed booty popping with Megan Thee Stallion. Such horrible writing.

Mepaphoros · 11-15-2022, 12:26 PM

I did enjoy Spiderman and Dr. Strange a lot, but would give Phase 4 a max of a B even though I watched and enjoyed almost everything that came out:

Films:

Spider-Man: No Way Home - 4/4
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - 3.5/4
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 3/4
Black Widow - 2.5/4
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - 2.5/4
Eternals - 1/4
Thor: Love and Thunder - .5/4

TV:
Hawkeye - 3/4
Moon Knight - 3/4
WandaVision - 3/4
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law - 2.5/4
Falcon & Winter Soldier - 2.5/4
Loki - 2.5/4
What If...? - 2/4
Ms. Marvel - 1.5/4

Overall, Phase 4 is pretty weak outside of Spiderman IMO, but I've been assuming this would be the case until the X-Men are brought to life in the MCU. If done properly, the X-Men movies should even beat out the Avengers ones if they get the cast right.

Augen · 11-15-2022, 12:30 PM

I think on one hand it has been good, but on the other it has lacked the sort of thrust we got before from the MCU.

Phase one was the insane concept (at the time) that these character would someday be on the screen together and there was so much excitement around that.

Then it built and built and by phase three we were getting bonkers comic splash page type scenarios in Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

It has to be hard after pulling that all off to go "what now?"

It has been a mixed bag to me. I think we have some really promising characters and coming to the end for many. A real transition phase to pass mantles. I do worry it is too much at times and even for someone like me it is hard to keep up so I cannot imagine casual fan.

I think hindsight will play a major role in how we look back at this era as a second wind, or beginning of a wobble.

My choice for best casting this phase is these two.

Mepaphoros · 11-15-2022, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augen

I think on one hand it has been good, but on the other it has lacked the sort of thrust we got before from the MCU.

Phase one was the insane concept (at the time) that these character would someday be on the screen together and there was so much excitement around that.

Then it built and built and by phase three we were getting bonkers comic splash page type scenarios in Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

It has to be hard after pulling that all off to go "what now?"

It has been a mixed bag to me. I think we have some really promising characters and coming to the end for many. A real transition phase to pass mantles. I do worry it is too much at times and even for someone like me it is hard to keep up so I cannot imagine casual fan.

I think hindsight will play a major role in how we look back at this era as a second wind, or beginning of a wobble.

My choice for best casting this phase is these two.

Yeah, I thought Hawkeye is one of the better MCU shows in terms of characters and action. It's cohesive and comes together well at the end.

SONICobra · 11-15-2022, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

She-Hulk was laughably awful, minus the appearances by Madisynn and Daredevil. It is amazing to me that, not only did they set out to make most men look horrible, but they made the central character look horrible too. She was supposed to be a funny, brilliant lawyer, and she ended up just being a sad mess who got fired multiple times and was so desperate for any man's attention, she'd open her legs to anyone who gave her the slightest bit of positive attention. Yet, she didn't like being "catcalled," and enjoyed booty popping with Megan Thee Stallion. Such horrible writing.

pretty much how i felt about she-hulk, aside from her sarcastic wit at times i didnt find much to like

overall phase 4 was a real clunker for me

Films:
Black Widow - pretty meh, taskmaster was such a waste
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - ok but pretty forgettable imo, some fantasy stuff was just a little too out there imo but probably exactly what they were going for
Eternals - could not finish
Spider-Man: No Way Home - pretty good but any scene involving ned is grating
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - disappointing, pretty much color by numbers for marvel
Thor: Love and Thunder - horrible. bimbo thor, what they did with gorr, jane foster, the story overall - it was just really bad
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (yet to see so no spoilers please) - ok but without t'challa this was never going to be what it could have / should have been

TV:
WandaVision - i didnt care for it, boring at first then got interesting then got weird
Loki - enjoyable
What If...? - a lot of fun, i think one episode maybe two were kind of meh but overall awesome show
Hawkeye - was ok but things got a little unhinged at the end, the way they handled kingpin was horrific
Moon Knight - interesting concepts, finale felt like it undid everything it worked for up until that point
Ms. Marvel - boring
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law - nope

statman · 11-15-2022, 04:24 PM

Films:
Black Widow - mediocre at best. Taskmaster was a letdown 6 /10
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - I found this to be pretty decent, but nothing to write home about 6.5/10
Eternals -didn't like this much at all 4-10
Spider-Man: No Way Home - the best of Phase 4. 9.5/10
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - pretty good if you don't think too hard about it. though 7/10
Thor: Love and Thunder - Not much to like at all. Need to jettison Taika if there is another Thor entry 3/10
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - Boring. As good as Chadwick Boseman was, they probably should have just recast T'Challa. 6.5/10

TV:
WandaVision - interesting first few episodes, setting up the mystery, but the payoff was kind of lackluster 7/10
Loki - kind of boring 6/10
What If...? - enjoyed most of the episodes. Frat Boy Thor was my least favorite. 8/10
Hawkeye - probably my favorite of the MCU series. 8.5/10
Moon Knight - Booooring! 4/10
Ms. Marvel - Kind of fun and I had no expectations going in. 7/10
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law - Very disappointing. Weird CGI, not enough action and unfunny. 3/10

So overall, Phase 4 was fair to poor with only a couple of good entries. 14 Movies and shows in 2 years is probably too ambitious. Seems like they need to focus more on quality than quantity. Hopefully Phase 5 will be better.

**SDguy** · 11-15-2022, 04:39 PM

Was Falcon and Winter Soldier not considered Phase 4? Didn't it air after WandaVision?

ParisDean · 11-15-2022, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Now that Phase 4 is over with Black Panther Wakanda Forever what are people thoughts on the quality of film making, writing and overall feel for this phase?

Films:
Black Widow
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Eternals
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love and Thunder
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (yet to see so no spoilers please)

TV:
WandaVision
Loki
What If...?
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law

A couple more to come on tv later in the year.

For me the movies have been a mixed bag of good, average and mediocre with only Spider-man getting close to great. The writing has felt rushed (reading BPWF's writing is poor), characters being shoehorned into projects to let people know they exist without contributing to the narrative of the movie.

Overall i would give the phase a C-. Mediocre and i am hoping that Phase 5 will be a big improvement and a return to form that was Phase 3.

If there are a "couple more" Phase 4 TV shows later in the year (just one actually, The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special) then it isn't over yet. So as of right now, my grade is "incomplete".

And why is no one including one of the clear highlights of this phase, Werewolf by Night?