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View Poll Results: Best Marvel Non-Super Powered Hand-To-Hand Fighter, No Weapons
Captain America 7 25.93%
Daredevil 1 3.70%
Shang-Chi 6 22.22%
Iron Fist (no chi-powered iron fist element) 0 0%
Mantis 1 3.70%
Kingpin 1 3.70%
Bullseye 0 0%
Punisher 0 0%
Black Widow 0 0%
Black Panther 3 11.11%
Psylock 1 3.70%
Wolverine (If no adamantium skeleton, let's say) 5 18.52%
Winter Soldier 1 3.70%
Falcon 0 0%
Karnak 1 3.70%
Other...who am I missing? 0 0%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2016, 12:32 PM   #51
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That was one Bendis-written issue of Avengers, I believe, and is completely inconsistent with Daredevil's history, and has not been referenced or leveraged since. It's his senses that are enhanced, not his brain or thought prowess or anything else. I've acknowledged that his radar gives him the advantage of "seeing" where normal people can't but, despite that, he's been defeated previously by Bullseye, Captain America, Kingpin, Punisher and others.

So, people, sigh, once again, LET'S PLEASE NOT OVERTHINK THIS. Hand to hand combat with human and, albeit in some cases peak (Captain America) or outsized (Kingpin) human strength, skill, agility, technique, etc.
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Old 07-02-2016, 02:49 PM   #52
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Experiment failed...shut it down...too many over-thinkers.
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Old 07-02-2016, 04:45 PM   #53
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Experiment failed...shut it down...too many over-thinkers.
Sorely tempted.
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Old 07-03-2016, 01:45 PM   #54
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That was one Bendis-written issue of Avengers, I believe, and is completely inconsistent with Daredevil's history, and has not been referenced or leveraged since. It's his senses that are enhanced, not his brain or thought prowess or anything else. I've acknowledged that his radar gives him the advantage of "seeing" where normal people can't but, despite that, he's been defeated previously by Bullseye, Captain America, Kingpin, Punisher and others.
No, it was Mark Waid's Daredevil. It's not at all inconsistent with Daredevil's history. His senses are enhanced because his brain is superhuman. You realizes that in order to have enhanced senses you have to have an enhanced brain, right? That's where the senses come from.
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Old 07-03-2016, 02:55 PM   #55
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No, it was Mark Waid's Daredevil. It's not at all inconsistent with Daredevil's history. His senses are enhanced because his brain is superhuman. You realizes that in order to have enhanced senses you have to have an enhanced brain, right? That's where the senses come from.
Hmm, I'll have to go back through Waid's DD. I have all of those and don't remember this.

Yes, his brain is enhanced in a way to enhance his senses. But his thought patterns and general brain facility beyond this has never been treated as advanced to superhuman levels. Sure, he's smart and a great lawyer, but in all his history he's never been up there for smarts and brain power like Reed, Tony, the two Hanks, even a strategist like Captain America, etc., which is what I thought you were getting at.

And, his sensory advantages haven't given him the edge over the other characters I've mentioned.

Last edited by wktf; 07-03-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:54 PM   #56
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And, how about, in the spirit of my second paragraph that you didn't quote which I've reiterated several times in this thread, you imagine Daredevil in the ring with one of the other candidates? Who would win? If it's DD then pick another one, and another until someone else wins. Then you'll have participated in this thread as was hoped.

No sarcasm or anything like that intended. Just trying my best to keep this thread on track.
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Old 07-04-2016, 12:17 AM   #57
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Out of everyone on this list Black Panther wins. He's in an indestructible suit and has claws that can shred through anything.
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Old 07-04-2016, 12:49 AM   #58
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I think the indestructible suit is just in the movies and besides, once again, we're not using weaponry or weapons for this scenario.

Again, just human hand-to-hand fighting prowess. Like the title of the tread says, no weapons.

Last edited by wktf; 07-04-2016 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:40 AM   #59
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Is Shang-Chi the master of Kung Fu and only Kung Fu?

Because if he is, Kung Fu has been proven over the last 20 years or so to be the weakest of all major martial art forms in MMA fighting.

So popular in the 70's but mostly useless against other forms.
I don't know who told you this, but it is not correct!
As far as I know, there doesn't exist a "weakest" form of martial arts...Just good or bad practitioners.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:59 AM   #60
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I would have thought Gamora was the best hand to hand.
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