THOR: RAGNAROK - SPOILERS

[risingstar]

It makes sense for films today to reflect the sign of the times, which is largely about diversity, feminism, a liberal leftist slant, and a bent to inject humor in the face of adversity and conflict as a means to cope. Most of us who are in their 40s and 50s (and older) remember a different perspective of things. I guess we now know how our parents felt about rock and roll and Elvis' pelvic thrust... lol.

It's probably best to take this all in stride. I'm just thankful to see these characters on the big screen. While the SJW outrage that seems to encompasses so much space today can be irksome, my sense is that like every other ideology that presents as speaking for everyone's best interests, it will eventually face its own inevitable come-uppance.

P.S. I didn't mind GOTG-2. I went in knowing it was going to be a Disney flick targeting kids. My 7 and 9 year olds (at the time of viewing) thought Baby Groot and Drax were hilarious.

[Meteor Man]

Originally Posted by risingstar

It makes sense for films today to reflect the sign of the times, which is largely about diversity, feminism, a liberal leftist slant, and a bent to inject humor in the face of adversity and conflict as a means to cope. Most of us who are in their 40s and 50s (and older) remember a different perspective of things. I guess we now know how our parents felt about rock and roll and Elvis' pelvic thrust... lol.

It's probably best to take this all in stride. I'm just thankful to see these characters on the big screen. While the SJW outrage that seems to encompasses so much space today can be irksome, my sense is that like every other ideology that presents as speaking for everyone's best interests, it will eventually face its own inevitable come-uppance.

P.S. I didn't mind GOTG-2. I went in knowing it was going to be a Disney flick targeting kids. My 7 and 9 year olds (at the time of viewing) thought Baby Groot and Drax were hilarious.

Great post RS. My perspective coming from an earlier generation doesn't appreciate many of the PC and "irksome" as you put it perspectives, but as the ideology of the day it will run it's course and be found in large doses, in media especially. The trick is to find the media you can watch that doesn't take it over the top for you personally. That's becoming a taller order as time passes. I do wish they hadn't decided to turn Thor into the comic relief. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it appears they've done the same thing with Aquaman in the DC movie verse. This kind of goof ball behavior by characters that have been written as fierce warriors for many years, changes their dynamic and makes them less in charge, and more trivialized and places the mantle of leadership, common sense, toughness, etc. onto other characters. This is becoming more and more the female characters, which is part of the ideology of the day. I don't have a problem with strong female characters, or female lead characters. I do have a problem with lead male characters becoming buffoons; or incompetent, or secretly evil, or in the way, just to promote feminism however. Let the characters be who they were originally written to be. Wonder Woman is not minimized because there is a Superman. I love both characters and one doesn't have to be demeaned or degraded to prove the worth of the other.

[RichBamf]

I genuinely don’t mind the humour of the marvel films for the most part, what I have the biggest problem with is humour in PLACE of a story, or the development of characters not being there.

There are lots of children’s films and tv shows that do both these things well, but GOTG2 and the new Thor didn’t for me.

The thing is, I’m probably going to be in the minority, but the Marvel films have taken a drastic turn down since winter Soldier in my opinion (bar homecoming, and parts or civil war).

[wktf]

I agree, Rich. No Marvel movie has been as good as Winter Soldier, and the emphasis of humor over story has been disappointing. That’s one reason I liked Dr. Strange and Civil War so much, compared to films like Ant-Man and GOTG2.

I hate they’ve made Thor a bit of a buffoon since Avengers. The same as DC seems to be doing with Aquaman, just based on the trailers. It’s so out of character, unlike how they’ve handled Cap.

[RichBamf]

Originally Posted by wktf

I hate they’ve made Thor a bit of a buffoon since Avengers. The same as DC seems to be doing with Aquaman, just based on the trailers. It’s so out of character, unlike how they’ve handled Cap.

Joe, I think that’s one of the biggest issues with this movie for me, the complete abandonment of the aspects of Thor’s personality and journey that we’ve seen before, in order to turn him into Star Lord version 2.

Let’s take one of our mutual favourites in comics and the MCU as a whole - Cap. His journey in the movies has been phenomenal, but more importantly, real.

Cap 1, he was a soldier with a streak of moral gold who fought for what was right.

Avengers, he woke into a world he didn’t know, thinking he had no place, only to understand the threats and global politics might have changed but the fight was still worth it.

Winter Soldier, he realised that if you fight for your nation, but lose sight of the individuals, you lose.

Civil War, he had to break or bend some of those relationships, because what is morally right for all mankind can often be needed to go above friendship, above family, above nation.

To me that’s what Cap is and why the MCU have absolutely nailed his character and journey.

But Thor is bereft of journey and character development, quick to change tone to suit a universe that is on a spiral of similitude and pattern rather than stand out excellence. Sadly it has made his films all the poorer, much to my chagrin.

[Mister H]

Originally Posted by RichBamf

Joe, I think that’s one of the biggest issues with this movie for me, the complete abandonment of the aspects of Thor’s personality and journey that we’ve seen before, in order to turn him into Star Lord version 2.

Let’s take one of our mutual favourites in comics and the MCU as a whole - Cap. His journey in the movies has been phenomenal, but more importantly, real.

Cap 1, he was a soldier with a streak of moral gold who fought for what was right.

Avengers, he woke into a world he didn’t know, thinking he had no place, only to understand the threats and global politics might have changed but the fight was still worth it.

Winter Soldier, he realised that if you fight for your nation, but lose sight of the individuals, you lose.

Civil War, he had to break or bend some of those relationships, because what is morally right for all mankind can often be needed to go above friendship, above family, above nation.

To me that’s what Cap is and why the MCU have absolutely nailed his character and journey.

But Thor is bereft of journey and character development, quick to change tone to suit a universe that is on a spiral of similitude and pattern rather than stand out excellence. Sadly it has made his films all the poorer, much to my chagrin.

Could not have said it better myself

[wktf]

Originally Posted by RichBamf

Joe, I think that’s one of the biggest issues with this movie for me, the complete abandonment of the aspects of Thor’s personality and journey that we’ve seen before, in order to turn him into Star Lord version 2.

Let’s take one of our mutual favourites in comics and the MCU as a whole - Cap. His journey in the movies has been phenomenal, but more importantly, real.

Cap 1, he was a soldier with a streak of moral gold who fought for what was right.

Avengers, he woke into a world he didn’t know, thinking he had no place, only to understand the threats and global politics might have changed but the fight was still worth it.

Winter Soldier, he realised that if you fight for your nation, but lose sight of the individuals, you lose.

Civil War, he had to break or bend some of those relationships, because what is morally right for all mankind can often be needed to go above friendship, above family, above nation.

To me that’s what Cap is and why the MCU have absolutely nailed his character and journey.

But Thor is bereft of journey and character development, quick to change tone to suit a universe that is on a spiral of similitude and pattern rather than stand out excellence. Sadly it has made his films all the poorer, much to my chagrin.

I could not so absolutely more agree, as this is what I’ve been saying for years but not nearly as clearly and well articulated as you just did, Rich! Captain America is the paradigm both Marvel and DC Studios should use as proof and example of how to build a financially and critically successful movie franchise by sticking to characterization that’s made these characters both beloved and financially successful for their publishers for decades.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wktf

I agree, Rich. No Marvel movie has been as good as Winter Soldier, and the emphasis of humor over story has been disappointing. That’s one reason I liked Dr. Strange and Civil War so much, compared to films like Ant-Man and GOTG2.

I hate they’ve made Thor a bit of a buffoon since Avengers. The same as DC seems to be doing with Aquaman, just based on the trailers. It’s so out of character, unlike how they’ve handled Cap.

That's one of my biggest issues too Joe (and Rich). I'm the youngest of 3 brothers, but I'm the only one not enjoying the majority of the Marvel/Disney movies. For me most of the characters are too unregocnizable.
I may go see this Thor (haven't even seen part 2), but only to have a good time with my brothers and buddies and to see gladiator Hulk.

[Meteor Man]

Originally Posted by RichBamf

Joe, I think that’s one of the biggest issues with this movie for me, the complete abandonment of the aspects of Thor’s personality and journey that we’ve seen before, in order to turn him into Star Lord version 2.

Let’s take one of our mutual favourites in comics and the MCU as a whole - Cap. His journey in the movies has been phenomenal, but more importantly, real.

Cap 1, he was a soldier with a streak of moral gold who fought for what was right.

Avengers, he woke into a world he didn’t know, thinking he had no place, only to understand the threats and global politics might have changed but the fight was still worth it.

Winter Soldier, he realised that if you fight for your nation, but lose sight of the individuals, you lose.

Civil War, he had to break or bend some of those relationships, because what is morally right for all mankind can often be needed to go above friendship, above family, above nation.

To me that’s what Cap is and why the MCU have absolutely nailed his character and journey.

But Thor is bereft of journey and character development, quick to change tone to suit a universe that is on a spiral of similitude and pattern rather than stand out excellence. Sadly it has made his films all the poorer, much to my chagrin.

Excellent post Rich...

[samhain81]

Originally Posted by RichBamf

Joe, I think that’s one of the biggest issues with this movie for me, the complete abandonment of the aspects of Thor’s personality and journey that we’ve seen before, in order to turn him into Star Lord version 2.

Let’s take one of our mutual favourites in comics and the MCU as a whole - Cap. His journey in the movies has been phenomenal, but more importantly, real.

Cap 1, he was a soldier with a streak of moral gold who fought for what was right.

Avengers, he woke into a world he didn’t know, thinking he had no place, only to understand the threats and global politics might have changed but the fight was still worth it.

Winter Soldier, he realised that if you fight for your nation, but lose sight of the individuals, you lose.

Civil War, he had to break or bend some of those relationships, because what is morally right for all mankind can often be needed to go above friendship, above family, above nation.

To me that’s what Cap is and why the MCU have absolutely nailed his character and journey.

But Thor is bereft of journey and character development, quick to change tone to suit a universe that is on a spiral of similitude and pattern rather than stand out excellence. Sadly it has made his films all the poorer, much to my chagrin.

Which is a huge shame considering Thor 1 was a great entry into the Thor universe, and character. They should have done away with the love interest (as a central theme at least), and with the comedic side kicks completely with the sequel, as it would have fared alot better without. The more I think of Thor 3, the more I refuse to watch it , because of what's become of the character. Changing his hair, his tone, his attitude and personality, and destroying Mjolnir! I loved the tones of the previous films, the original moreso, but this is just a huge step back for me.