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Old 10-24-2013, 09:25 PM   #21
joefixit2
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The 90's were kinda lame when good storywriting took a back seat to big boobs and big guns.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #22
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Is actually well written and a good read. Each issue shocks me even more that I am enjoying it.
I've heard it's really good too
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:49 PM   #23
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The creation and continued existence of Red Hulk. There is no point to the character. Enough with all Hulk knock-offs already!!!!!!!!
Agreed - and even worse is when they killed off the Abomination in the first issue... by simply SHOOTING HIM! WTF?
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #24
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When Wolverine lost his edge. Don't know the specific issue this started happening but I'm pretty sure it was righht around the time the 1st X-MEN movie was released. The Wolverine I remember was mysterious, ruthless but not needlessly violent person with a samurai type code of honor who happened to be Canadian and wear a cowboy hat. Now he's running a school, is on every flagship team book and his core values have become much more mainstream imo. It's like he used to be on the outter edge of society but now he's right in the middle of it. Not sure if that makes any sense but he's definitely lost his edge.
Good one. I'm not sure when it started either, but it was definitely before the X-Men movie, IMHO. I think it was already in full force back in the Jubilee-is-Wolverine's-bestie days. They were trying to get the old dynamic Wolverine had with Kitty Pryde, but wow, did they miss that.

It would be interesting to determine exactly where it began, but honestly, I'm betting it began the very moment that Marvel realized that Wolverine was the massive hit-character he's become. I mean, back in the Frank Miller/killing everyone in the Hellfire Club days, did any of us think he'd become the sometimes-violent grumpy old codger he's become? He's basically like Ben Grimm with claws, now--and I mean no disrespect to Benjy, but we already had one of him.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:33 AM   #25
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I just remembered a big one: Dr. Light raping Sue Dibny in Identity Crisis. Good lord almighty, what in the hell were the folks at DC thinking? Some readers may enjoy grim and gritty comics, but I prefer stories that can capture some of the wonder that I felt while reading comics as a child. I don't want that type of "realism" in superhero comics... that's why I read superhero comics!

In an earlier post, I mentioned the return of Jean Grey, the death of Superman, and Knightfall, but I kept reading after those events. With Identity Crisis, my interest in superheroes trailed off substantially, to where I barely buy them anymore.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:52 AM   #26
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I just choose to ignore the things I don't like as if they never happened.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:23 AM   #27
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I just remembered a big one: Dr. Light raping Sue Dibny in Identity Crisis. Good lord almighty, what in the hell were the folks at DC thinking? Some readers may enjoy grim and gritty comics, but I prefer stories that can capture some of the wonder that I felt while reading comics as a child. I don't want that type of "realism" in superhero comics... that's why I read superhero comics!

In an earlier post, I mentioned the return of Jean Grey, the death of Superman, and Knightfall, but I kept reading after those events. With Identity Crisis, my interest in superheroes trailed off substantially, to where I barely buy them anymore.
Good one. The problem with this was that so many people called that series an immediate classic. It was the wrong lesson taken from the successes of 1986; with Watchmen and DKR, their successes I'd argue depended on them being outside continuity. Batman could be old, the world could be apocalyptic, all that--because it was an alt history within the narrative diegesis. This--and other terrible moments that we've described in this thread--made the mistake of happening within continuity. It goes back to the reason that DC used to have all those imaginary stories--they wanted to tell the story of Supes and Lois finally getting married, without having to have them, you know, actually get married. Recently, creative teams (and marketing guys) have insisted that these dramatic stories happen in "real" time for these characters...and that ends up being a point of no return.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:29 AM   #28
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I just remembered a big one: Dr. Light raping Sue Dibny in Identity Crisis. Good lord almighty, what in the hell were the folks at DC thinking?
You have to wonder how they discussed this and convinced themselves during the summit how raping a character in a comic book and having it be a key event was a good thing.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:30 PM   #29
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I just remembered a big one: Dr. Light raping Sue Dibny in Identity Crisis. Good lord almighty, what in the hell were the folks at DC thinking?
...

They were thinking Brad Meltzer is a hot-sh*% writer right now and let's market the crap out of a NY Times Bestseller writing our comic book. + They were thinking anything you want Mr. Meltzer.

Wasn't this a weird kick-off for writers outside the industry diving into comics? I recall a few questionable story-lines from book writers after this.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:14 PM   #30
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Awesome analogy calling Wolverine Ben Grimm with claws!
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