Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - SPOILER Thread

[samhain81]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

i like to focus on the positives with TPM instead of the negatives

-fantastic music
-best light saber battle in the series
-darth freakin maul
-quigon jinn
-full jedi council
-young obi-wan
-get to see the galaxy before outbreak of war
-good overarching story
-a proper master/apprentice relationship (qgj / obi)

im having a hard time thinking of even one positive that I can list with TFA, the music was some of the worst in the series, the story was non-existant, the villains were weak, the heroes were weak, just overall a bore to watch, the only good thing I can say about TFA is the 3D is fantastic on the bluray but thats it

I would say AOTC is the next worst star wars movie after TFA, but I still enjoyed it overall, it had an original and interesting story at least

I will say on record that TPM is still my favourite Star Wars out of the entire franchise, still do this day. Nothing about it bores me. Honestly. There is always something to look forward to; Otta Gungha, Tatooine and the Pod Race, Space Battles, The battle on Naboo, the awesome Jedi Temple scenes overlooking Coruscant, and the ultimate finale in any Star Wars Darth Maul and Duel of The Fates. Pretty much reiterating all your comments above. Love the film, and always will.

Originally Posted by Python

I would say...

I think we all agree on Jar Jar, nobody is saying the prequels are perfect, they just aren't as bad as people make out. TPM especially has plenty of plus points, if a nickname is one of four cons you dislike it for, it can't be that bad. As for him saving the day, well yeah, it's silly... But he is one of the most powerful force users ever to exist, you kind of expect him to pull off feats even if he isn't old enough to fully understand his powers.

Haha, crying over a nickname. Good Lord, first world problems.

[Hellboy]

I’ve said it before but I think it bears repeating. Which SW Trilogy or individual Episode you prefer has a lot to do with what you grew up with. Most of the kids I talked to during the PT run said they were their favorites. This was despite all the OT purist hate constantly leveled against them. My Niece & Nephew have grown up with the ST and they’re quite invested in characters like Rey, Kylo Ren and BB-8 the same way I was with Luke, Vader and the droids when I was their age.

As far as TPM goes I’m a big fan as well. So much going for it. Sure Jar Jar was a goofy distraction but Threepio was quite similar in A New Hope. It just didn’t bother me the same way it did others. I’ve always maintained that history would be much kinder to the PT than established SW fans were at the time of it’s release. Separating one from their expectations can often lead to a more objective view.

[JP Sarri]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I’ve said it before but I think it bears repeating. Which SW Trilogy or individual Episode you prefer has a lot to do with what you grew up with. Most of the kids I talked to during the PT run said they were their favorites. This was despite all the OT purist hate constantly leveled against them. My Niece & Nephew have grown up with the ST and they’re quite invested in characters like Rey, Kylo Ren and BB-8 the same way I was with Luke, Vader and the droids when I was their age.

As far as TPM goes I’m a big fan as well. So much going for it. Sure Jar Jar was a goofy distraction but Threepio was quite similar in A New Hope. It just didn’t bother me the same way it did others. I’ve always maintained that history would be much kinder to the PT than established SW fans were at the time of it’s release. Separating one from their expectations can often lead to a more objective view.

Unfortunately, nostalgia and objectivity don’t mix well.

[Gothamite]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Sure Jar Jar was a goofy distraction but Threepio was quite similar in A New Hope.

That's a great comparison, and I keep wishing someone would just kill 3P0 already.

[samhain81]

You're absolutely right Hellboy. TPM was the first star wars movie i saw, and at the cinema too, so issue trivial issues like goofy characters and political back drops meant nothing to me, as a 14 year old. And you're right about C3po, and the hypocrisy of some older Jar Jar haters.

[built2shred]

Originally Posted by samhain81

You're absolutely right Hellboy. TPM was the first star wars movie i saw, and at the cinema too, so issue trivial issues like goofy characters and political back drops meant nothing to me, as a 14 year old. And you're right about C3po, and the hypocrisy of some older Jar Jar haters.

I get it that a 14 year might love Jar Jar but as an adult you can't look back and say that C-3PO was as annoying as Jar Jar was...

C-3PO would say some sarcastic lines, where as Jar Jar tried to do physical humor along with his cheesy lines and an accent which made it extremely hard to even understand what hell he was saying...

Phantom Menace had parts that were really good like the end battle with Darth Maul and Pod Racing but it's extremely dry dialogue and lack of emotion from the actors made it hard to watch. Plus making all the sets CGI didn't help either.... I know Lucas was breaking ground at the time but CGI had not been perfected yet and it showed in a lot of the scenes..

I know to a kid this doesn't really matter but as an adult it's tough to watch... It's like watching the original Superman Movie, as a 8 year old I thought it was the greatest movie ever but as an adult watching it again I can admit it was pretty cheesy and cringe worthy in a lot of scenes...

[samhain81]

Originally Posted by built2shred

I get it that a 14 year might love Jar Jar but as an adult you can't look back and say that C-3PO was as annoying as Jar Jar was...

C-3PO would say some sarcastic lines, where as Jar Jar tried to do physical humor along with his cheesy lines and an accent which made it extremely hard to even understand what hell he was saying...

But what rationales it for me though is that Jar Jar wasn't some character who was goofy and stupid with no reason. His own race hated him, and the fact that he screwed everything up and made his race look bad. He was intentionally the black sheep of his race, yet his goofiness and stupidity is what inherently saved their necks at the end of the movie. Its like the saying 'Even a broken clock is right twice a day' I didn't mind his character, and i still don't.

And you say he was incomprehensible? What about times gwhere c3po says things like 'I beg your pardon? Oh my goodness, oh!' in reply to r2d2 which we have no idea what he said. Same sort of issue of incomprehension. But each to their own, peace.

[JP Sarri]

Originally Posted by built2shred

I get it that a 14 year might love Jar Jar but as an adult you can't look back and say that C-3PO was as annoying as Jar Jar was...

C-3PO would say some sarcastic lines, where as Jar Jar tried to do physical humor along with his cheesy lines and an accent which made it extremely hard to even understand what hell he was saying...

Well, that’s a matter of experience and personal opinion. For example, I like C-3PO because I grew up watching the original trilogy. I do not care much about Jar Jar and find him annoying at times, but my wife loves him. She thinks he is adorable. My wife never watched the original trilogy as a kid. She never watched the prequels as a young adult. She thought of Star Wars as a very depressing story full of people dying (her actual comment). Before TFA came out, I convinced her to watch the entire series with me following Lucas’ intended order. She fell in love with Jar Jar right away. To be honest I couldn’t understand why.

Now, and after some careful thought, I have come to the conclusion that nostalgia plays a big part in the way we see things. Star Wars was my childhood. I love every minute of it. It was perfect to me and still is. However, my wife does not share my views. To her, Star Wars is just another overhyped movie franchise with no happy ending. She even considers Rogue One’s tragic finale another clear example of her personal belief. To me, it was poetic. Simply perfect.

Bottom line is, you cannot please everyone. Characters like C-3PO, Jar Jar and L3-37 are created for comic relief in an otherwise sober epic tale. They may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but that can also be said about any type of comedy or comedian. The difference lays in our individual emotional triggers.

[Mister H]

Originally Posted by JP Sarri

Bottom line is, you cannot please everyone.

I think it all comes down to that statement, as far as SW goes. The only thing I would add is that there seems to be a growing number of people who “aren’t” pleased with the recent SW additions. The OT seems to have more fans than episodes I, II and III and episodes I, II and III seem to have more fans than the new batch.....that’s what it seems like to me anyway.

[Hellboy]

I’ve always found it funny that Threepio gets a pass while JJB gets eviscerated. Throughout the entire OT Threepio was bumbling around, getting in the way and interjecting comedy with his one liners during serious moments and/or major action scenes. Sure JJB was goofier, more in your face distracting, but the character actually did have some depth beyond that serving as a catalyst in the rebellion on Naboo and later with the creation of the Clone Army. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JJB fan, I just don’t think his character was as drastic of a departure from the formula established in the OT as most make him out to be.

As for the the dialogue. The entire Saga has dry and sometimes even corny lines. Harrison Ford himself said during production on ANH that he couldn’t read his lines with a straight face it felt so cheesy.

The lack of emotion I can’t agree on. Jake Lloyd wasn’t the most accomplished actor but I did find his moments with his mother, especially when he leaves her, to be touching. The Duel of the Fates however was the high point of the film. Maul and Obi-Wan’s intensity is on par with Vader V Luke in ESB & ROTJ. On the flip side you had Qui-Gon’s complete control of his emotions. Arguably THE best illustration of a Jedi Master’s discipline in the entire SW Saga.

When comparing the special effects both ANH and TPM broke new ground. Neither are without their flaws. It’s up to the viewers which they choose to overlook and by and large ANH gets a pass due to nothing more than nostalgia and being the first film in the Saga.