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Old 02-08-2015, 07:49 PM   #21
The Mule
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Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
People were asking why SS pulled the plug on Predator 2. Can someone post the picture of the XM product being painted and the Predator 2 in the background. It might shed some light on the thought process.
Here it is, same issue it had in the other pic, looks like it's drunk.




I have to say another thing regarding the P2 Maquette.
It just came to my mind that back in the days, the 1:1 Wolf Bust had the exact same inaccuracy regarding the dreads, they were sticking out of the head with an odd angle. That was the prototype shown by Sideshow and it was supposed to be produced that way.
Collectors and fans made a petition and sent it to Sideshow, and they actually changed the dreads to make them accurate (and less silly). It was not an easy change, I think the issue was that to make them screen accurate, they should have been made removable, and in the final product, they are.
This was, I don't know, 6 years ago? If not more.
Today, Sideshow even refused to fix the dreads on the 1:4 headsculpts.
The Wolf bust was 900$, the P2 Maquette 1200$.
It makes you seriously wonder what the hell happened down the line. It's sad.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Viper245 View Post
Great suggestions Bobfrog. The question though is Sideshow listening? Let's all hope they finally are.

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Old 02-08-2015, 08:43 PM   #23
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Probably not too far from the truth, unfortunately.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:37 PM   #24
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Today, Sideshow even refused to fix the dreads on the 1:4 headsculpts.
The Wolf bust was 900$, the P2 Maquette 1200$.
It makes you seriously wonder what the hell happened down the line. It's sad.
In fairness, the rep in question took the time to get involved in the conversation and even PM some of us who were more vocally unhappy at the time of the P2s release and explained that it was too far along to change anything by that stage. He said he'd taken it on bored and even would have liked to have done it but it was out of his hands by that stage, I got the sense he was genuinely disappointed at the reaction, I think we sometimes forget real people are involved in creating these things and they invest a lot of time and passion doing so. It isn't always perfect and that is where a thread like this can be great if it isn't abused, constructive criticism is the way to help out. After our chat I decided to keep my P2 order and give it a shot. Fast forward to now, in a weird turn of events, that P2 is on hold and the same rep is back suggestion those changes may now be possible (Which is great!) It's a weird situation but despite the thread is somewhat about the more negative sides of the hobby, I think it is very important to give credit where it is due. And the P2 is such a time at this point imo despite the mess up of the production pieces because SSC went about it the right way, He is trying in that case and I for one am happy.

I've also got over the initial disappointment and I'm happy that they decided to put it on hold rather than ship a sub par product. I don't think we should complain too much about the P2 maquette until we get a definite answer on its future, it may well come back better than ever. We should at least wait and see before being too disappointed about it. It would be nice to know they only use the best factories when spending so much money on stuff like this, but really we have no idea of the logistics. I'm betting permanent factories with permanent members of staff are a rare thing, a factory that puts out and excellent piece one year might cause a mess like the P2 production the next. More frequent checks by trusted inspectors to catch these problems early may be the best solution.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:00 AM   #25
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Also, I'd add: I've read things like "other companies are just beginning, you'll see that past the honeymoon they'll have the same issues too", said by Sideshow reps.
Umm,....are you serious?! Who said that?! Somebody at SS said that?!!!

That's a bit hard to believe that that would be said by a SS rep.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:37 AM   #26
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This thread while long overdue will ultimately have as much impact on QC as the many and varied posts here, Freaks, social media etc. and that is none, zero, zilch.

A business like SS doesn't listen... it analyses, it analyses numbers on spreadsheets and it is those numbers that inform management and their decisions. Over the last 5 years SS has grown enormously all the while their QC has dropped at an inverse rate. It is all about the bottom line... SS has cut costs at all levels of production (except seemingly where producing excellent prototypes is concerned) and QC is just another area where SS can and has fattened the profit margin on each item they produce.

Example: the lack of replacements that seems to have become a norm over the last year or so, a simple cost cutting measure designed to get collectors to keep sub-par product while attempting and at times succeeding to lock them into future purchases by only offering credits only on SS purchases. At any time SS could order more replacements for any item, hey they did it with Rouge and Psylocke, why not WW or Alien BC or any product that has issues? Well it would cost them and impact those numbers that are oh so important.

In short only when customers stop purchasing from SS and this in turn starts directly and largely impacting the SS turnover will there be any form of change... and that would take an enormous collective effort by 1000's of collectors from over the globe, something I just don't see happening. FWIW.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:41 AM   #27
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In fairness, the rep in question took the time to get involved in the conversation and even PM some of us who were more vocally unhappy at the time of the P2s release and explained that it was too far along to change anything by that stage. He said he'd taken it on bored and even would have liked to have done it but it was out of his hands by that stage, I got the sense he was genuinely disappointed at the reaction, I think we sometimes forget real people are involved in creating these things and they invest a lot of time and passion doing so. It isn't always perfect and that is where a thread like this can be great if it isn't abused, constructive criticism is the way to help out. After our chat I decided to keep my P2 order and give it a shot. Fast forward to now, in a weird turn of events, that P2 is on hold and the same rep is back suggestion those changes may now be possible (Which is great!) It's a weird situation but despite the thread is somewhat about the more negative sides of the hobby, I think it is very important to give credit where it is due. And the P2 is such a time at this point imo despite the mess up of the production pieces because SSC went about it the right way, He is trying in that case and I for one am happy.

I've also got over the initial disappointment and I'm happy that they decided to put it on hold rather than ship a sub par product. I don't think we should complain too much about the P2 maquette until we get a definite answer on its future, it may well come back better than ever. We should at least wait and see before being too disappointed about it. It would be nice to know they only use the best factories when spending so much money on stuff like this, but really we have no idea of the logistics. I'm betting permanent factories with permanent members of staff are a rare thing, a factory that puts out and excellent piece one year might cause a mess like the P2 production the next. More frequent checks by trusted inspectors to catch these problems early may be the best solution.
Actually, we could expand the argument. I prefer not to think of how must feel an artist who pulls out a great concept and design, just to see it screwed up by the factories. It must be disheartening.
Bottom line, tho, I am a customer. I'm sympathetic and I can relate, but I look at what I get for the money I pay.
The Wolf bust was well ahead in production too when it got changed, and this makes 2 high end Predator pieces prototype-ed with the same identical mistake, both for a premium price. One of the reasons people are so much on "other companies" is that they actually adapt much quicker than Sideshow. The XM Widow and Mark 42 were recalled and corrected in a matter of few weeks, and are pieces that retail at half the price of the P2 Maquette.
Even with all the good intentions of this world and simpathy for the artist(s) involved, on such a pricey item, I can't help but think that things should be managed in other ways. At 1200$, everything short but flawless design and production are just excuses.
Obviously, I'm not saying it's the artist's fault. It's clear that artists don't have almost any management power, even the art director. That's why I also think that it's about time for someone with actual decisional power to step down from his godly throne and grace us mere mortals with their attention. The fact that they hide behind a couple of reps and Customer Service speaks volumes, to me.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:59 AM   #28
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My point wasn't that you should have sympathy, it was just that these are real people and fans of the subjects just like us which makes some of the comments you see in the threads a bit embarrassing, I remember somebody asking for the details of the P2 maquette sculptors so we can shame them! People like that need to get a serious grip on life.. I do think it would be nice to see the product at early stages where we can give input maybe (all companies, not just SSC) And maybe at a few key moments throughout the sculpting where things can be caught. But then you'd probably get a dozen different opinions from a dozen different people.

I would just like silly mistakes to stop and I'll be happy. My P1 bio for instance didn't even connect to its stand and I've lost money on duty etc. If things like that can be stopped in China, it will be a big change.
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:19 AM   #29
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My point wasn't that you should have sympathy, it was just that these are real people and fans of the subjects just like us which makes some of the comments you see in the threads a bit embarrassing, I remember somebody asking for the details of the P2 maquette sculptors so we can shame them! People like that need to get a serious grip on life.. I do think it would be nice to see the product at early stages where we can give input maybe (all companies, not just SSC) And maybe at a few key moments throughout the sculpting where things can be caught. But then you'd probably get a dozen different opinions from a dozen different people.

I would just like silly mistakes to stop and I'll be happy. My P1 bio for instance didn't even connect to its stand and I've lost money on duty etc. If things like that can be stopped in China, it will be a big change.
Aren't the artists mentioned directly in the product page, anyway? Lol. Yes of course that's too crazy as a reaction, but I do understand what you mean.
I know these people are fan of what they do and they are often collectors, too.

But this is a whole another argument you're making, you're shifting the point on "who's to blame and who's not", when it's clear to everyone with normal intellective functions that the artists themselves are not involved with the screw up. And even if the artists made mistakes and a wrong sculpt, someone else approved it and sent it to production instead of sending them back to the drawing board.
The complaints are directed at Sideshow as a whole, as a company. I wish I could direct them towards specific people but these people are obviously too busy being secretive and using CS/reps as proxies to put their own faces in what they do and the decisions they take.
Which is entirely within their own right, but obviously has consequences.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:05 PM   #30
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