Mass Effect 3

[MrYac]

i'm so sick of the "well you just wanted a happy ending" crap, no i didn't and neither did most of the other people i've seen complain, what we wanted is an ending that made sense, strange beams of light at different colors is not a different ending, the normandy amazingly gaining star trek level teleporter tech and beaming my crew from earth and then escaping to a distant planet is not a good ending regardless of the color of light associated with it, some old friggin man telling his grandson it was all a damn story is not a good ending, it was all just cheesey, lazily written and frankly a cop out considering the scope of the rest of the series

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Luminous

Actually, I deliberately avoided the extended cut to make sure I experienced the same thing everyone else did the first time around. While I am sure they could have been better, the endings that were there were more than adequate.

I feel that someone comparing it to "crap" is an extreme overreaction. What is it everyone wanted? A happy ending with a medal ceremony akin to Star Wars? Shepard riding off into the sunset with his love interest? Or was it simply that you couldn't destroy the Reapers without destroying another species?

No, the original ending was most definitely not adequate and even if it was adequate, adequate is not good enough for people that have spent the last 5 years committing 100 or more hours across three games and getting the lack of closure that was provided.

Check out this video. It basically sums up the most important reasons why that original ending was a steaming pile of sh*t that was thrown together by people that did not care to dedicate the time and resources that should have been given to it.

http://youtu.be/6M0Cf864P7E

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by MrYac

i'm so sick of the "well you just wanted a happy ending" crap, no i didn't and neither did most of the other people i've seen complain, what we wanted is an ending that made sense, strange beams of light at different colors is not a different ending, the normandy amazingly gaining star trek level teleporter tech and beaming my crew from earth and then escaping to a distant planet is not a good ending regardless of the color of light associated with it, some old friggin man telling his grandson it was all a damn story is not a good ending, it was all just cheesey, lazily written and frankly a cop out considering the scope of the rest of the series

Doing this from a phone, so I'll contribute more to the discussion when I get home. I don't see how different color lights is an issue. If you chose one ending, the ending that suites your character, it would have just been one light. Speaking of the beam, why do the writers lose credibility by incorporating the mass relays into the solution for the Reaper problem? If the Reapers have always been a galactic event, what better way is there than to distribute the solution via a device that is found and connected to every system?

As for the Normandy traveling so far and so fast, why is that so hard to believe? The energy that hits them is the very same energy that allows galactic travel. Why is it implausible for the ship to travel so far after being hit by that energy?

The old man and the child was a tad cheesy. However I think that was mainly due to its delivery. The person who voiced the old man was horrible. In a series that delivers such strong performances, why cheap out at the very end? Otherwise, it didn't bother me.

The only thing that bothered me about the ending was that it implied the entire crew is on board the Normandy. After seeing all of them except Joker in the final battle, why would they all be on the ship? That didn't make sense to me and I feel they should have remained on earth. Aside from that, yes, it was adequate.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Andrew

No, the original ending was most definitely not adequate and even if it was adequate, adequate is not good enough for people that have spent the last 5 years committing 100 or more hours across three games and getting the lack of closure that was provided.

Check out this video. It basically sums up the most important reasons why that original ending was a steaming pile of sh*t that was thrown together by people that did not care to dedicate the time and resources that should have been given to it.

http://youtu.be/6M0Cf864P7E

Okay, I just sat through that video.... with that guys extremely annoying voice. Just wanted to punch him through the screen and knock the pretentiousness out of him.

I will say there are some valid points in that video. Namely the Normandy's fate (which I acknowledged prior to watching that video), the War Assets (they should have counted for something more), and players choices didn't influence the ending as much as they promised they would. The rest still just sounds like the guy wasn't happy he didn't receive an ending he might have expected. I'll list his complaints below to help keep track of them.

1. Normandy's "Escape" (why was it running away?)
2. "Teleporters" (why is your crew on board the Normandy?)
3. Destruction of Mass Relays
4. Victory Fleet Stranded
5. War Assests
6. No closure
7. "Twist" ending
8. The "God" child
9. Shepard's acceptance of "God" child's choices
10. Player choice didn't matter

(Complaint 1 and 2) I agree about the Normandy escaping. No idea why it was running away. I also agree the crew should not have been on board. If Joker was helping the fleet fight and the crew was on Earth helping Shepard, neither should have happened. To me, this was my biggest complaint about the ending. Especially when I see my love interest on board and it is implied she is going to help populate a new planet with Joker.

(Complaint 3) Mass Effect 2's Arrival DLC does indeed imply that if a Mass Relay is destroyed it could take out the system it occupies. However, to me the destruction of the Relays in the end sequence feel more like they were simply taken apart rather than abruptly destroyed. That was just my interpretation of it, and to me it makes sense.

(Complaint 4) Yes the fleet is stranded but that appears to be just another casualty/ consequence of the war and the use of the Crucible. Not the characters or the player had any idea what the Crucible's true function would be. So why are we surprised one of the effects is the decommissioning of the Mass Relays? If we were told what the Crucible did prior to the end, and this side effect wasn't mentioned, then of course there would be room to complain.

(Complaint 5) The War Assets should have played a better part in the games ending. In the end it was just a number that would decide whether or not Shepard lives or dies in one of the endings. What kills me is that even if he survives, his love interest is stuck on the other side of the galaxy bumpin uglies with Joker.

(Complaint 6) It would have been nice to see some closure for all the major sub plots. Does Liara continue being the Shadow Broker? Do the Quarians actually co-exist with the Geth? Does Joker successfully have marital relations with a robot? Of course I would have enjoyed finding out. However, none of that was important to the main theme of Mass Effect and it's conflict. So it didn't bother me.

(Complaint 7 and 8) Why is the AI in the end appearing to Shepard as child, have to be considered a "twist" ending? Considering the Reapers telepathic abilities, it seems to me the Catalyst AI simply took the form of the one thing that has been constantly on Shepards mind.... the child he couldn't save who represented the entire human race. Did everyone forget Shepard's recurring nightmares? And why does it have to feel like the writers were "bucking" the trend? Given the scope of what was at stake in this series, why would the writers make it as easy as pushing a button and killing the Reapers? Did players really expect such an easy solution to a game that has constantly given them difficult moral choices to make? This ending seemed to be right in line with the theme of Mass Effect.

As for the logic behind the creation of the Reapers and their purpose, it still makes sense within the context of this series. The recurring theme in Mass Effect is AI ultimately rebelling against it's creators. The Catalyst AI explains that it created the Reapers in order to prevent the destruction of life at the hands of AI/synthetics. The person who made the video above found this to be a silly concept considering the proof he demonstrates with Shepard bringing peace to the Geth and Quarians, and the example of his friendship with EDI. I don't see this as proof of any potential absurdity or flawed logic behind the Catalyst's explanation for the Reapers. Instead, Shepard's experience with the Geth and EDI are a testament to what he/she was able to accomplish. Commander Shepard is simply an anomaly that was never considered or expected. With how often Shepard is told that he is different, by the Geth, the Reapers, and Leviathan, wouldn't it make sense he was the catalyst for change in the cycle? I think so.

(Complaint 9) I agree with this one. Shepard probably wouldn't have simply accepted the choices presented to him. Even if those were the only three possibilities, there should have at least been dialogue options where Shepard argues or fights the AI on the matter. I believe the Extened Cut addresses this, but I haven't completed that yet.

(Complaint 10) I wasn't aware of the promises made by the developers. If it was indeed promised that the players choice would heavily influence the outcome of the game, then yea.... the endings were too similar. I would say the promised wasn't kept.

Anyway, the ending still seems to be adequate to me. Do I wish it could have been better? Of course. Do I think all of the complaints are just? No.

[MrYac]

the point about the stupid flawed logic of the reapers explanation has nothing to do with EDI or the Geth becoming my best buddy, the flaw is that to stop AIs from killing all life he designed a group of AI that would destroy all life, that just doesn't make any damn sense and stinks of them just not being able to come up with a good reason to fit with the lame ending they threw at us

[Argonus]

Making the Reapers easy to defeat would've cheated the entire experience of the series; straight out of the gate from the first ME, you learn that the Reapers are essentially gods.

People that wanted a "happy ending" were never going to get one without some form of sacrifice; it just wasn't plausible. The other group of people, people that wanted an ending that "made sense"? Yac points out all the (horrible) loose ends the first ending had... and while I was "fine" with that ending, I'm glad they touched it up a bit with the EC.

Props to Aldrin, but that grandson/grandfather scene is still so ... laughable? At least you get an Asari (?) version of that if you choose to Refuse... which I did on one of my three playthroughs. Refuse is a kick to the player's nuts, but it's a natural response on the part of the character; why would you trust the word of a malevolent AI all of a sudden? Most people wouldn't.

[MrYac]

like i've mentioned before here's how i think it should've ended.

first off your whole damn squad is involved in the final push, really annoyed you pick 2 of them to save the universe and the others just what...sit back and have tea? so the last battle is a much more epic push where everybody on your team helps make it to the citadel.

but wait in the end Harbinger actually friggin shows up and theres a real honest to god boss fight, in the end as he's being defeated he gets off the crazy light beam like he does in the original, it wipes out your squad (maybe with enough assests they can survive) and i'll allow the end to play out as it did from there, Shep barely survives, makes his push to the beam, meets up with anderson and I.M as happened originally.

now instead of the star kid popping up (which honestly i've never been that against him as some are) but Shep gets the message from Hackett about the cricibel being in place but needing something on his end, Shep fires it up, sits back with Anderson, the 2 admire the view, the crucibal fires they get inceneraited but not before watching the reapers being taken care of by countless lifetimes worth of work finally achieved by the unifying of the universe.

so there ya go, not an easy win, tons of sacrifices along the way but a real ending, not some last minute convuluted crap

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by MrYac

the point about the stupid flawed logic of the reapers explanation has nothing to do with EDI or the Geth becoming my best buddy, the flaw is that to stop AIs from killing all life he designed a group of AI that would destroy all life, that just doesn't make any damn sense and stinks of them just not being able to come up with a good reason to fit with the lame ending they threw at us

You have to remember that the creator of the Reapers is himself an AI. It shouldn't be surprising that we, humans, would not agree with it's logic. It saw a pattern, one where the creation of a new AI would always rise against and destroy it's creators. In a cold and calculating way, it found the solution to that problem. It decided to add the Reapers into the equation to avoid a complete annihilation of all organics. In a repetitive cycle, it would harvest the most advanced races and preserve the ones that hadn't yet reached the same pinnacle.

Statistically speaking, it felt it was doing what was best for organics. In it's solution, organics would die but they would continue to exist. It felt if it didn't intervene, all organics would simply cease to exist.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Argonus

Props to Aldrin, but that grandson/grandfather scene is still so ... laughable? At least you get an Asari (?) version of that if you choose to Refuse... which I did on one of my three playthroughs. Refuse is a kick to the player's nuts, but it's a natural response on the part of the character; why would you trust the word of a malevolent AI all of a sudden? Most people wouldn't.

Wait, that was Buzz Aldrin? Okay, that's pretty cool. Bad performance, but I can forgive that.

[Luminous]

Not sure if this was already posted, but I found this video very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=ythY_GkEBck#!