Joker (2019). **** WARNING SPOILERS ALLOWED ****

[qz33]

^ Pretty much.

This movie prays on the overexposed modern day fears of being unliked/unpopular and uses that fear as a source of mental illness along with society in general. As if explaining a mental illness as mostly something that is done to a person.

The movie dumps everything that can go wrong to an individual and then shows him crack.
The Joker as Batman's nemesis is just a wrapper used to sell the movie.

Joker isn't supposed to be pathetic. He has a strength, a genius the weight of which he buckles under. Batman's nemesis isn't just someone wallowing in his own ineptitude looking for compassion and understanding.

[Meteor Man]

Originally Posted by qz33

^ Pretty much.

This movie prays on the overexposed modern day fears of being unliked/unpopular and uses that fear as a source of mental illness along with society in general. As if explaining a mental illness as mostly something that is done to a person.

The movie dumps everything that can go wrong to an individual and then shows him crack.
The Joker as Batman's nemesis is just a wrapper used to sell the movie.

Joker isn't supposed to be pathetic. He has a strength, a genius the weight of which he buckles under. Batman's nemesis isn't just someone wallowing in his own ineptitude looking for compassion and understanding.

Well said...I completely agree.

[Mister H]

The previous posts make perfect sense and I am generally a purist myself but at the same time, this was an alternate reality type of situation.

[supermetroid]

Originally Posted by Meteor Man

My problem with this version of the Joker is that when the fantasy elements of this character are removed, he becomes John Wayne Gacy. The Joker was imagined and created as a fantasy character. The main villain and a paramore of the Batman from an intelligence standpoint in many ways. He's been boiled down here to the point where he's nothing more than a demented, despicable wretch. This simpleton isn't anywhere near intelligent enough to be the main villain for the Bat. This Joker was written in such a way that unless you enjoy going into the mind of a demented serial killer psyche, which I don't, you're in for too many uncomfortable moments. I'm sure there are those who don't share my opinion, but that's fine. Those who loved it are entitled to their opinions, and I am entitled to mine. I'm sorry to see that the box office numbers show we probably haven't seen the last of this slimy piece of filth.

That last sentence is a little harsh. I'd rather see movies like this that are actually thought provoking and takes a look at actual problems in the real world instead of the same repeated Disney/Marvel movies that don't offer much depth. Looking at how many shootings there are, loners with mental problems lashing out, do they want attention or acceptance deep down? It's rated R so kids shouldn't see it, maybe it should have come with a disclaimer that it might be mentally tough to watch lol.


But I'd agree that maybe this isn't your version of the Joker, it's kind of up in the air if it's the actual Joker I guess anyways.

[Meteor Man]

Originally Posted by supermetroid

That last sentence is a little harsh. I'd rather see movies like this that are actually thought provoking and takes a look at actual problems in the real world instead of the same repeated Disney/Marvel movies that don't offer much depth. Looking at how many shootings there are, loners with mental problems lashing out, do they want attention or acceptance deep down? It's rated R so kids shouldn't see it, maybe it should have come with a disclaimer that it might be mentally tough to watch lol.


But I'd agree that maybe this isn't your version of the Joker, it's kind of up in the air if it's the actual Joker I guess anyways.

I don't think it's harsh to call someone who enjoys murdering people a slimy piece of filth. I think what "is" harsh is the grisly act of killing someone else. You take away all of their hopes; their dreams, their rights, their freedoms, their future, their life. That is harsh in my book. I do believe in defending your own life is someone else is trying to take it away from you. But of course that's not what we're talking about here. This is a deeply disturbed and twisted individual who discovers that he gets a thrill out of killing other people.

[Gothamite]

Originally Posted by Meteor Man

This is a deeply disturbed and twisted individual who discovers that he gets a thrill out of killing other people.

I guess you missed the parts where he gets abused and/or brutalized -- by his mother, his mother's boyfriends, the teenagers who steal his sign, the subway yuppies in suits, etc.

[supermetroid]

Originally Posted by Meteor Man

I don't think it's harsh to call someone who enjoys murdering people a slimy piece of filth. I think what "is" harsh is the grisly act of killing someone else. You take away all of their hopes; their dreams, their rights, their freedoms, their future, their life. That is harsh in my book. I do believe in defending your own life is someone else is trying to take it away from you. But of course that's not what we're talking about here. This is a deeply disturbed and twisted individual who discovers that he gets a thrill out of killing other people.

You have to realize the biggest aspect of Joker in the movie is his mental illness. It's scary to think about because in the real world there are sick people that are borderline to being pushed to that point. I admit it seems like there are some killers that were seemingly born evil, as they were born and raised with loving families yet couldn't resist the urge to harm animals and eventually people. I even saw a documentary on one where his parents still visited him in prison despite the horrible acts committed, even to kids, I'm not sure I could do that.



I find it interesting some of the people that have a problem with this film will not flinch at Freddy, Jason, Myers etc. I guess there's a point where it feels too real vs a fantasy.

[armitage]

Originally Posted by Meteor Man

This is a deeply disturbed and twisted individual who discovers that he gets a thrill out of killing other people.

Killing people is incidental. The power that he gets from acting instead of being acted upon gives him a sense of power and a new purpose, a reason to exist outside of the masses who refuse to break their servitude and forgo the comfort and perception of safety in the known system . The Joker exists as an embodiment of Entropy. He's the "devil" in the flesh and Chaos incarnated in a Babylon which is falling ...rats run amok, trash piling up, overwhelming crime, poverty..lack of morality, lack of empathy and of community as a whole. The politicians are corrupt, the single mothers and their children are preyed upon by opportunist scum. The absence of an established order, values, goodness and self sacrifice creates a vacuum filled with nihilism, violence, selfishness and disarray

If anyone doesn't get it do some research on the rats and mice of NIMH and the societal decay known as "Behavioral Sink" -John B. Calhoun

The sign "Everything Must Go" in the very beginning of the movie is essentially the KEY to reading the Map.
Of course the pendulum is always swinging so Order will eventually return as the form of a man dressed as a bat.
What I want to know is why is every clock in the movie reading 11:11 ?

[jeremydmc]

Finally saw Joker last night. Great movie.

Found this article interesting.

Todd Philips says "Maybe Joaquin’s character inspired the Joker,” Phillips told the Times. “You don’t really know. His last line in the movie is. ‘You wouldn’t get it.’ There’s a lot going on in there that’s interesting.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/jo...ps-1202181970/

[ParisDean]

I finally saw this last night. When checking out reviews after, I was surprised at the gap between critics' opinions and the general audience's: critics were lukewarm while general audiences loved it. If anything, I thought the divide might be reversed with moviegoers not taking to this radical retelling of such a well-known character and critics liking it more as a gritty psychological drama and acting tour de force.