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Old 08-24-2014, 06:39 PM   #71
shakazulu
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I felt betray by comics when all the big names of marvels comics of the 90's left marvel to form image comics. todd mcfarlane, jim lee, mark silvestri, rob liefield, sam keith etc.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:28 AM   #72
JP Sarri
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Good one. The problem with this was that so many people called that series an immediate classic. It was the wrong lesson taken from the successes of 1986; with Watchmen and DKR, their successes I'd argue depended on them being outside continuity. Batman could be old, the world could be apocalyptic, all that--because it was an alt history within the narrative diegesis. This--and other terrible moments that we've described in this thread--made the mistake of happening within continuity. It goes back to the reason that DC used to have all those imaginary stories--they wanted to tell the story of Supes and Lois finally getting married, without having to have them, you know, actually get married. Recently, creative teams (and marketing guys) have insisted that these dramatic stories happen in "real" time for these characters...and that ends up being a point of no return.
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I didn't read Infinity, nor do I plan to (the cosmic stuff I've never really felt all that connected to...), but yeah, I hear you Joe. It was really when the marketing machine took over the characters and stories that ended it for me. No respect for the past (which is what the medium was based on, at least for me!), and no respect for the fans.

It's ironic that the very movie franchises that we all dreamed of for so long--awesome as they are--have become part of the downfall of the medium. DC and Marvel are at this point playing for the TV and movie screens; the books are serving as marketing materials for the films and TV series.

On the bright side, that means that the characters will endure, and maybe that's the most important thing in the long run. But to see the books themselves become almost immaterial? Makes me sad, still.

I guess we'll always have the 60s/70s/80s!
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:39 AM   #73
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Being almost a lifelong Iron Man fan, my personal choice for "WTF did I just read" has to be the Avengers : The Crossing (1995). Just horrible on so many levels.

http://marvel.wikia.com/The_Crossing

Iron Man is revealed to have been working for Kang for years. Mantis sides with Kang the Conqueror out of heartbroken spite. There's a mysterious time portal in the Mansion's basement, a couple of murders and more confusion than you could shake an enigma AND a riddle at!

The Avengers travel back in time to enlist a 19 year-old Tony Stark while his grown-up version almost kills them. The older Stark ultimately makes a heroic self-sacrifice, allowing Teen Tony to remain in the present, becoming Iron Man until the subsequent Onslaught incident, wherein a great many heroes seemingly died.

Instead, Franklin Richards saves the heroes and recreates the adult Tony on his Counter-Earth - thereby making The Crossing more or less obsolete. Kurt Busiek later gives it a more considerable retcon (see Notes). Overall, the story didn't really make much sense. We see Tony to be the traitor from the very beginning but whenever we read his thoughts, he doesn't seem to be aware of his own misdeeds. However, when his crimes are later revealed to the Avengers, Tony isn't surprised at all - making it somewhat doubtful that he was completely mind-controlled.



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Old 08-30-2014, 03:08 PM   #74
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I didn't read Infinity, nor do I plan to (the cosmic stuff I've never really felt all that connected to...), but yeah, I hear you Joe. It was really when the marketing machine took over the characters and stories that ended it for me. No respect for the past (which is what the medium was based on, at least for me!), and no respect for the fans.

It's ironic that the very movie franchises that we all dreamed of for so long--awesome as they are--have become part of the downfall of the medium. DC and Marvel are at this point playing for the TV and movie screens; the books are serving as marketing materials for the films and TV series.

On the bright side, that means that the characters will endure, and maybe that's the most important thing in the long run. But to see the books themselves become almost immaterial? Makes me sad, still.

I guess we'll always have the 60s/70s/80s!
My brother. We must get together here in the Denver area some day,for whatever beverages suit us, and reflect on those glorious decades together!

Imperious Rex!!
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #75
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My brother. We must get together here in the Denver area some day,for whatever beverages suit us, and reflect on those glorious decades together!

Imperious Rex!!
We totally do! We'll make it happen, good sir, I have faith. And before next DCC.

Speaking of DCC, we should definitely do a StatueForum lunch or dinner that weekend; there's enough of us in town or nearby that we can make it work!
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:32 PM   #76
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1) astonishing X-men ruined Xmen for me forever
Really? The Joss Whedon issues? I thought that was the best X-Men story since the Dark Phoenix saga.

And to answer the question in this old thread, for me it's One More Day. I had read Spider-Man semi-regularly for years prior, but since that calamity, the only Spider-Man I follow is the newspaper strip where he's still married to Mary Jane.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:01 PM   #77
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There’s and interesting book that I just finished reading called “Slugfest,” which explores the well documented histories of both Marvel and DC Comics, but through the lense of the 50 year rivalry between the two. While the author get some details wrong, it’s an interesting lense through which to look at both companies’ evolution and actually gets to Teague’s question, readers’ feeling betrayed by the Comics companies they love, throughout their histories of making changes to either increase market share, sales and/or profits.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:34 PM   #78
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Reading back through this thread, while I’ve contributed to it, I don’t think I answered the question.

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars felt like a betrayal while I was reading it. It may have been the first Marvel event, but it felt more like an event over story quality. I was confused why Marvel was publishing this while I read it and felt cheated when it finished.

Following that, X-Men #1 back in the ‘90s. Maybe it’s because I was newly married, out of grad school, commuting from NJ to NYC, new mortgage, having kids...I don’t know. Though Marvel had put out Spectacular Spider-Man and Marvel Team-Up to put more Spidey titles out, and Marvel Two-In-One to give us more of The Thing, these all were fun and fresh stories. X-Men #1 felt like derivative marketing, rather than creative storytelling, that added nothing new to the mix. I dropped it after that first issue.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:08 AM   #79
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For me it was the Onslaught saga. That mess turned the tide for me. I had read comics regularly from 1972 until then. Professor X and Magneto combine to become something that made absolutely no sense. They never even tried to explain how Onslaught was able to basically overcome anything and everything. It was such poor storytelling, and threw aside so much cannon that had stood for over thirty years at that time, that it pushed me over the edge.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:47 PM   #80
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It's gun tolerant Batman for me. I mean Batman comics and especially Batman TAS has a big influance on me, why i don't like guns... But especially in Scott Snyder's run, Batman was very gun tolerant... There were stupid explanations for this with the gun wealding another characters add, the Blue Bird... Batman was like ''I don't use guns but she does''... I mean do i need to explain how stupid this is ? how it drives me crazy after all the guns killed my parents, i hate guns, guns are bad messages of Batman books and cartoons... This made me realise that there was no real stand in Batman... some write him gun tolarent and even pro gun, some write him anti- gun... This made me realise Batman was not something to take serious cause it doesn't have a anti gun stand or pro gun stand... It doesn't have any stand, you either have a stand about something or you are just retarded nonsense so i still get Batman but he doesn't mean anything to me other than abit of nostalgia anymore...

I haven't read Batman for almost 1,5 years now btw... I get the trades when they come out though.
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