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05-26-2016, 10:05 PM
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#21
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Hercules
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,807
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mostly agreed with his sentiments, till he compared Trump to Hitler. that to me seems a bit more insulting to the folks that lost their lives during the holocaust than making Cap a Hydra agent.
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05-26-2016, 10:36 PM
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#22
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Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8,155
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It's a story guys. Chill and enjoy. You all take this stuff too seriously. Remember when everyone sent Dan Slott death threats for Superior Spidey? Yup, got a great story out of it...
FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!!!!!
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05-27-2016, 12:01 AM
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#23
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Columnist Thunder Mod
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denver Area, between Asgard and Krypton
Posts: 21,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrYac
mostly agreed with his sentiments, till he compared Trump to Hitler. that to me seems a bit more insulting to the folks that lost their lives during the holocaust than making Cap a Hydra agent.
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Agree.
Last edited by wktf; 05-27-2016 at 12:42 AM.
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05-27-2016, 12:13 AM
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#24
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Columnist Thunder Mod
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denver Area, between Asgard and Krypton
Posts: 21,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureInvasion
It's a story guys. Chill and enjoy. You all take this stuff too seriously. Remember when everyone sent Dan Slott death threats for Superior Spidey? Yup, got a great story out of it...
FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!!!!!
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You're correct about the ridiculous and over the top response to Superior Spider-Man. And I'd say Spencer's getting threats for this Cap story also is wrong.
That said, I disagree with you. Yes, they're fictional characters. But they are also more than that. The power of fiction and these characters is to emotionally move us and, in the best cases, inspire us. As a child, I listened to my grandmother's stories about escaping from Poland and the Nazis, and watched her tears as she wept over the family members she'd left behind who were murdered by the Nazis. And I read and thrilled to the Lee/Kirby Captain America comics as he battles with integrity for justice and against the Nazis. Hence the writer, whose link I posted, expressing his anger over Marvel's using 11 million actual deaths as clickbait.
Cap became my favorite popular fiction and superhero because of his moral fiber, unwaivering integrity and stand to preserve the rights of those who could not fight for themselves. No other comic book hero matches him for his ability to inspire real people (and, yes, I can name them) who modeled their behavior off of Cap's. Not to mention the reason why Simon & Kirby, two Jewish New York kids, created Cap during WWII (read the article in the link I provided if you don't know what I mean). All of this makes this story tact for the sake of buzz and sales an affront.
Last edited by wktf; 05-27-2016 at 12:44 AM.
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05-27-2016, 05:57 AM
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#25
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Retired Reviewer
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bluffton, SC USA
Posts: 5,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wktf
You're correct about the ridiculous and over the top response to Superior Spider-Man. And I'd say Spencer's getting threats for this Cap story also is wrong.
That said, I disagree with you. Yes, they're fictional characters. But they are also more than that. The power of fiction and these characters is to emotionally move us and, in the best cases, inspire us. As a child, I listened to my grandmother's stories about escaping from Poland and the Nazis, and watched her tears as she wept over the family members she'd left behind who were murdered by the Nazis. And I read and thrilled to the Lee/Kirby Captain America comics as he battles with integrity for justice and against the Nazis. Hence the writer, whose link I posted, expressing his anger over Marvel's using 11 million actual deaths as clickbait.
Cap became my favorite popular fiction and superhero because of his moral fiber, unwaivering integrity and stand to preserve the rights of those who could not fight for themselves. No other comic book hero matches him for his ability to inspire real people (and, yes, I can name them) who modeled their behavior off of Cap's. Not to mention the reason why Simon & Kirby, two Jewish New York kids, created Cap during WWII (read the article in the link I provided if you don't know what I mean). All of this makes this story tact for the sake of buzz and sales an affront.
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05-27-2016, 12:36 PM
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#26
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Cyclops
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 11,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wktf
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I'll be honest, while I found this new "character twist" silly and ridiculous it didn't really bother me because I knew it wouldn't last. Cap would still be the same Cap we grew up with before the story arc was over. However, this article certainly opened my eyes to another perspective. I agree with her that this is more than another "Death of" gimmick or whatever other ridiculous and very temporary idea they come up with to push sales. It's flat out insulting.
It's not only insulting to readers like Jessica Plummer, but to Cap's creators, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Not because Marvel has deviated from their original vision, but because Marvel didn't think to consider what that vision meant Simon and Kirby. On both a personal and social level. The comic reading Jewish community just took a huge slap to the face. And while this can easily be tossed aside as entirely fictional premise therefore not really being an "issue" or insulting to some of you, I suggest you simply show some consideration for those who are troubled by this. This doesn't affect me on a personal level like it clearly will for some, but I can certainly sympathize and understand where they're coming from.
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05-27-2016, 01:11 PM
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#27
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Green Arrow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 10,432
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I dunno the backlash seems like it was invited so I'm just going to ignore all this.
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05-27-2016, 04:16 PM
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#28
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I was arrested for selling illegal-sized paper.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hertfordshire, U.K
Posts: 2,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wktf
You're correct about the ridiculous and over the top response to Superior Spider-Man. And I'd say Spencer's getting threats for this Cap story also is wrong.
That said, I disagree with you. Yes, they're fictional characters. But they are also more than that. The power of fiction and these characters is to emotionally move us and, in the best cases, inspire us. As a child, I listened to my grandmother's stories about escaping from Poland and the Nazis, and watched her tears as she wept over the family members she'd left behind who were murdered by the Nazis. And I read and thrilled to the Lee/Kirby Captain America comics as he battles with integrity for justice and against the Nazis. Hence the writer, whose link I posted, expressing his anger over Marvel's using 11 million actual deaths as clickbait.
Cap became my favorite popular fiction and superhero because of his moral fiber, unwaivering integrity and stand to preserve the rights of those who could not fight for themselves. No other comic book hero matches him for his ability to inspire real people (and, yes, I can name them) who modeled their behavior off of Cap's. Not to mention the reason why Simon & Kirby, two Jewish New York kids, created Cap during WWII (read the article in the link I provided if you don't know what I mean). All of this makes this story tact for the sake of buzz and sales an affront.
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x 2,000,000,000!!
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05-27-2016, 08:03 PM
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#29
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Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wktf
You're correct about the ridiculous and over the top response to Superior Spider-Man. And I'd say Spencer's getting threats for this Cap story also is wrong.
That said, I disagree with you. Yes, they're fictional characters. But they are also more than that. The power of fiction and these characters is to emotionally move us and, in the best cases, inspire us. As a child, I listened to my grandmother's stories about escaping from Poland and the Nazis, and watched her tears as she wept over the family members she'd left behind who were murdered by the Nazis. And I read and thrilled to the Lee/Kirby Captain America comics as he battles with integrity for justice and against the Nazis. Hence the writer, whose link I posted, expressing his anger over Marvel's using 11 million actual deaths as clickbait.
Cap became my favorite popular fiction and superhero because of his moral fiber, unwaivering integrity and stand to preserve the rights of those who could not fight for themselves. No other comic book hero matches him for his ability to inspire real people (and, yes, I can name them) who modeled their behavior off of Cap's. Not to mention the reason why Simon & Kirby, two Jewish New York kids, created Cap during WWII (read the article in the link I provided if you don't know what I mean). All of this makes this story tact for the sake of buzz and sales an affront.
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I can understand and respect everything you said, but still...it's a comic character. It's meant to tell a story regardless of origins. If they thought of this story ages ago, they may have run it. Who knows?
Just because a character has a past doesn't mean it can't have a future. Characters and stories have to evolve to stay interesting. Frankly I grew tired of Cap comics. How many times can you watch the dude punch Hydra? A change of pace is refreshing and we all know it'll be back to the status quo (aka Spidey) eventually anyway. Enjoy the ride. I will and pretty sure Spencer will deliver something fun
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05-27-2016, 08:53 PM
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#30
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Retired Reviewer
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bluffton, SC USA
Posts: 5,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureInvasion
I can understand and respect everything you said, but still...it's a comic character. It's meant to tell a story regardless of origins. If they thought of this story ages ago, they may have run it. Who knows?
Just because a character has a past doesn't mean it can't have a future. Characters and stories have to evolve to stay interesting. Frankly I grew tired of Cap comics. How many times can you watch the dude punch Hydra? A change of pace is refreshing and we all know it'll be back to the status quo (aka Spidey) eventually anyway. Enjoy the ride. I will and pretty sure Spencer will deliver something fun
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What Marvel needs to do, and for that matter DC as well, is to try to come up with new characters or to create compelling stories surrounding the classic characters, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every so often with gimmicky attempts.
In my opinion, if the writers are not up for the challenge, then it is time to find new ones. The problem with these companies is that the continue to keep the same people on the payroll. And whoever is a newcomer into the fray is just a protege of the "executives" above. Executives that only care to make a quick buck with total disregard of whose legacy gets trampled in the process.
We all get it; this industry is a business like any other and money needs to be made. Above all, you want to keep your investors happy. But like any other business, there is an ethical and an unethical way to make money. And in my opinion, what Marvel is doing right now is borderline unscrupulous and irresponsible.
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