Print Storage - Portfolio Options

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by qz33

I appreciate OrangeCrush's information very very much.

Just like someone appreciates the art of comic but does not have all the pages framed and mounted so to can someone appreciate prints. Protfolio's allow you to do just that and browse them in the easiest method possbile -like pages in a comic.

Before OrangeCrush's posts I never knew things like these existed. I have prints in a box and larger posters rolled.
This is all slowly changing. His posts concerning quality are likewise helpful. At least for myself I don't want to spend $40 and find out later I could spend $60 more for something that will add to the enjoyment of the prints for which significant money has already been sacrificed?

thanks, its much appreciated and I am glad you found the info useful.

[biglebowski9999]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

First off, I never said there was anything wrong with using Itoya's portfolios. In fact, I have stated MANY times on these forums that I use Itoya's Profolio professional portfolios almost exclusively for prints that are 13x19 or smaller. In fact, I just purchased 20 - 4x6 Profolio Professional portfolios as I am in the process of redoing all of my old family picture albums and decided to go with the Profolio Professional line. All in all I own 14 - 13x19 Profolio Professional portfolios, 11 - 11x17 Profolio Professional Portfolios, 7 - 8x10 Profolio Professional Portfolio's and 20 - 4x6 Profolio Professional Portfolios. Not to mention, Itoya's Profolio Professional portfolios are the portfolios I send out to potential clients. On top of that, I have stated many times that Itoya's Polyglass pages are some of the clearest and highest quality pages currently available on the market, even slightly superior to Prats pages. So I hold Itoya, and many of thier products, in very high regard and have made that perfectly clear in many of my posts. That would be a pretty stupid thing to do if I was a sales rep for Prat, lol. In fact, over my entire posting history, I have been a far bigger sales rep for Itoya than Prat.

What I did say is that I hate the Art Profolio Line from Itoya and I stand by that statement 100%. They look cheap, feel cheap, don't age well at all, and the pages are low in quality and have a milky appearance that severly degrades the overall appearance of the artwork you store in such pages. Then again what do you expect from an 18x24 portfolio that only costs $35-$40. As I said, this is simply a case of getting what you pay for. You can't even buy a single 10 pack of 18x24 Polyglass pages for that amount. Itoya's Art Profolio line is a very low end portfolio, period, and storing valuable prints in such a portfolio makes absolutely ZERO sense to me and I have no problem stating as much. If people can afford $100 prints, they can certainly afford a quality portfolio/presentation case. I also made it perfectly clear that some collectors in here actually like the Itoya Art Profolio portfolios and those people are entitled to thier opinion and can continue on buying those portfolios to their hearts content. People are entitled to buy whatever portfolio they see fit. My posts on this forum, in regards to storage, were merely to show people the different options available, all of which are vastly superior to the quality of Itoya's Art Profolio.

And the rest of your post is simply 100% dead wrong. The portfolios/presentation cases I have suggested are absolutely not just for professional artists who need to transport their work from show to show. That statement is nothing short of absurd. Those portfolios are just as viable for collectors as they are for artists. If you want to store $100+ prints (equaling $5000 in prints when the portfolio is full) in some cheap $40 portfolio that has cheap milky pages and doesn't age well, then by all means have at it. That's you choice to make. That said, its not something I would ever do myself nor recommend other people doing, but again everyone in here is entitled to their own opinions and can make their own choices. I used the Art Profolio line all throughout art school so I have plenty of experience using that model and I really can't say a single positive thing about them beyond their really cheap price.

Again, to suggest the options I have presented here are only for professional artists looking to transport thier artwork is not only dead wrong, its nothing short of laughable, as is the statement that portfolio's are not meant for permanent storage. As long as their archival, they absolutely are meant for long term/permanent storage, especially when dealing with print collectors. to suggest otherwise is nothing short of absurd. I would love to see you try and find a link, or get a statement from one of those companies, that suggests portfolio and presentation cases are only temporary or short term storage solutions. Sorry, but your just dead wrong.

And if you think my posts are in any way overkill, then by all means just skip right over them and give them no thought whatsoever. I have had countless PM's thanking me for the information I have provided on these forums. In the end, that is all that matters as that was the sole purpose of making these posts to begin with, to help people out.

I may sound like sales rep from Prat, but at least I don't sound like someone that has absolutely ZERO experience when it comes to storage solutions for prints. Portfolios/presentation cases aren't meant for permanent print storage? Honestly, that is one of the biggest lines of nonsense I have seen yet on these boards.



Just pure nonsense. So what your saying is unless your planning on framing a print, there is no point in buying it? Wow, just wow. Honestly, I'm speechless on this one as clearly you just have no understanding of print collecting in general.Most people have very limited space overall for framed prints so print collectors use portfolios, presentation cases, and print boxes to store their pints and each and their absolutely suitable for long term/permanent storage.

Sigh. Another 10K character post to trudge through? You're exhausting, honestly. I can see brevity is not your strong-suit.

I'll cut right to the chase since you can't seem to. I really couldn't care less what people do. I know some people that literally sandwich all their prints between two pieces of foam core...not for me but, whatever. The ONLY reason I even noticed your suggestion was because it was irresponsible and quite simply, you're full of ----.

Regarding Itoya, you claim they "look and fee cheap." Why does this matter? Does this somehow detract from their ability to store prints flat and protect them?

"They don't age well." This was the most ridiculous of everything you said. The covers are polypropylene...that stuff will be around when you and I are dead and gone. I've had one for 5+ years and it looks the same as the day I bought it. SHOW SOME PROOF.

"The pages severely degrades the overall appearance of the artwork." Again, I have had the complete opposite experience. SHOW SOME PROOF.

You have people asking for advice who don't have a clue what they should for storage. Try to be responsible in your suggestions...there is a reason the vast majority of collectors use Itoyas...they are more than adequate for what they are designed to do. But you wouldn't think so when someone comes in with long-winded responses that try to make them seem like they are an expert on the subject, but in reality they just like to hear themselves talk. Especially when they are full of complete and utter fabrications. All I was doing was clearing the air, but you obviously get instantly butthurt when someone doesn't agree with you.

PS-

Out of curiosity, why did you edit your post to take out the part where you mention you have "1300+ prints, 99% of which will never be framed." Seem like an odd thing to remove...

[TheYoungWolf]

Originally Posted by biglebowski9999

Sigh. Another 10K character post to trudge through? You're exhausting, honestly. I can see brevity is not your strong-suit.

I'll cut right to the chase since you can't seem to. I really couldn't care less what people do. I know some people that literally sandwich all their prints between two pieces of foam core...not for me but, whatever. The ONLY reason I even noticed your suggestion was because it was irresponsible and quite simply, you're full of ----.

Regarding Itoya, you claim they "look and fee cheap." Why does this matter? Does this somehow detract from their ability to store prints flat and protect them?

"They don't age well." This was the most ridiculous of everything you said. The covers are polypropylene...that stuff will be around when you and I are dead and gone. I've had one for 5+ years and it looks the same as the day I bought it. SHOW SOME PROOF.

"The pages severely degrades the overall appearance of the artwork." Again, I have had the complete opposite experience. SHOW SOME PROOF.

You have people asking for advice who don't have a clue what they should for storage. Try to be responsible in your suggestions...there is a reason the vast majority of collectors use Itoyas...they are more than adequate for what they are designed to do. But you wouldn't think so when someone comes in with long-winded responses that try to make them seem like they are an expert on the subject, but in reality they just like to hear themselves talk. Especially when they are full of complete and utter fabrications. All I was doing was clearing the air, but you obviously get instantly butthurt when someone doesn't agree with you.

PS-

Out of curiosity, why did you edit your post to take out the part where you mention you have "1300+ prints, 99% of which will never be framed." Seem like an odd thing to remove...

I'm inclined to agree with you. Personally, Itoya's proflio is right up my alley. I love 'em. I currently own an 11x17 for smaller prints and an 18x24 for larger prints. Both of which have held up spectacularly over time; the same can be said for the artwork stored inside. Anything bigger than that gets put in between two inexpensive, acid-free pieces of 30x40 foam core, labelled, wrapped and secured somewhere safe until I decide to frame them. Simple as that.

No disrespect to OC intended, of course. His insight is interesting, and I can certainly appreciate that he's willing to lay out his opinions and thought process, regardless of the fact that it could potentially give off the wrong impression to someone who has no frame of reference to work from. I think the important take away for those that are new to print collecting, searching for some guidance, is that there's a wide array of (perfectly sufficient) storage options out there, all of which have benefits and features that come right down to personal preference. ie., safety, ease of use, accessibility, affordability, etc. Do your research, weigh your options and choose what works in your favor. Knowledgable opinions are nice, but no one's word should be taken as gospel unless the objective is to mimic collecting habits to a T.

My two cents? I'd rather save some on cost of storage by going with "acceptable," and instead, allocate the extra towards framing/other hobbies.

...

Unrelated to this particular conversation; I'm eager to get my hands on framed Supes and DD. Hope they start to ship soon!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by biglebowski9999

Sigh. Another 10K character post to trudge through? You're exhausting, honestly. I can see brevity is not your strong-suit.

I'll cut right to the chase since you can't seem to. I really couldn't care less what people do. I know some people that literally sandwich all their prints between two pieces of foam core...not for me but, whatever. The ONLY reason I even noticed your suggestion was because it was irresponsible and quite simply, you're full of ----.

Regarding Itoya, you claim they "look and fee cheap." Why does this matter? Does this somehow detract from their ability to store prints flat and protect them?

"They don't age well." This was the most ridiculous of everything you said. The covers are polypropylene...that stuff will be around when you and I are dead and gone. I've had one for 5+ years and it looks the same as the day I bought it. SHOW SOME PROOF.

"The pages severely degrades the overall appearance of the artwork." Again, I have had the complete opposite experience. SHOW SOME PROOF.

You have people asking for advice who don't have a clue what they should for storage. Try to be responsible in your suggestions...there is a reason the vast majority of collectors use Itoyas...they are more than adequate for what they are designed to do. But you wouldn't think so when someone comes in with long-winded responses that try to make them seem like they are an expert on the subject, but in reality they just like to hear themselves talk. Especially when they are full of complete and utter fabrications. All I was doing was clearing the air, but you obviously get instantly butthurt when someone doesn't agree with you.

PS-

Out of curiosity, why did you edit your post to take out the part where you mention you have "1300+ prints, 99% of which will never be framed." Seem like an odd thing to remove...

Honestly, I was about to post another long post refuting all of your claims, but then I remembered exactly who I am dealing with and just how warped your mentality is when it comes to print collecting in general and decided to throw in the towel. I am done arguing with you. I could very easily go point by point and refute every last thing you said and could very easily upload pictures of my Art Profolios that are 12+ years old, just to prove how poorly the pages and covers have aged. Honestly tho, whats the point. Your viewpoints on this matter are so skewed and so off base that there is just no point in even going on with this. In particular the part about portfolios not being long term storage solutions and nice portfolios only being for "artists" looking to transport thier work from show to show. Not to mention the whole "if your not going to frame a print then whats the point in buying it" mentality.

So you go on believing whatever you want to believe in regards to these portfolios and you go on buying whatever portfolios you see fit to buy. Go ahead and store your valuable prints in a bottom of the line $40 portfolio and continue on believing that the portfolios and presentation cases I listed are ONLY for "artists" and aren't meant for long term storage. Again, I honestly couldn't care less. What I do care about is helping people to make better choices for print storage so I will continue to post my opinions on this forum in hopes of helping people to make more informed decisions on the methods they use to store their prints and yes, that includes trying to deter people from using Itoya's Art Profolio line. If people were collecting cheap $5 dollar posters then that would be a different story, but putting $100 prints in really cheap portfolio's is not something I agree with and I never will.

Itoya is a great company and they make some outstanding products, including some of the nicest pages on the market. Unfortunately, the Art Profolio line just isn't one of them. those are literally bottom of the barrel portfolios. You would be very hard pressed to find a cheaper quality portfolio. In my opinion, not only do they feel cheap and look cheap, the milky pages are also some of the lowest quality pages I have come across yet in this market, and they do not age well at all. Believe me, don't believe me. Again, I couldn't care less. Again, I have had a ton of PM's from people thanking me for the info I have provided and at the end of the day, that is all that matters as that is the only reason I have made these posts to begin with.

Best of luck to ya!

Originally Posted by TheYoungWolf

His insight is interesting, and I can certainly appreciate that he's willing to lay out his opinions and thought process, regardless of the fact that it could potentially give off the wrong impression to someone who has no frame of reference to work from.

Actually, I am well aware that my posts will probably upset a few people here and there as I am aware of the fact that there are collectors on here that not only use Itoya's Art Profolio line, but are also quite fond of them as well. So obviously those people are not going to take kindly to me calling those portfolios bottom of the barrel portfolios. Its nothing personal. I am simply calling it as I see it.

People are entitled to use whatever portfolio they want, but that's not going to change my opinion and its not going to stop me from posting that opinion. I would bet that 95% of the people that use Itoya's Art Profolio line have never actually used a higher quality portfolio before, hence have no frame of reference in regards to just how cheap that line really is. I would also bet that if those people were to buy a nicer quality portfolio and actually give them a chance, that they would never use an Itoya Art Profolio ever again.

Either way, it is what it is and people will do what they will do. Honestly, storing $100 art prints in an Art Profolio portfolio is basically equivalent to buying $400-$500 sideshow statues and displaying them on cheap cardboard shelving. Something like this:



If someone is content in doing so, then all the power to them. One way or the other, its their choice to make.

[TheYoungWolf]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Actually, I am well aware that my posts will probably upset a few people here..

..but that's not going to change my opinion and its not going to stop me from posting that opinion.

Not entirely sure why you're up in arms.

At no point did I claim that you were unaware of your own intent, nor did I say that you weren't allowed to have/post your own, differing opinion. Actually, if you took a second to relax and process my post, you'd realize I said the exact opposite. Simply pointed out that yours is one of hundreds of equally valid opinions on these boards that newcomers are welcome to weigh the value of when deciding on what to do with their prints.

How that was perceived as a slight is beyond me.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by TheYoungWolf

Not entirely sure why you're up in arms.

At no point did I claim that you were unaware of your own intent, nor did I say that you weren't allowed to have/post your own, differing opinion. Actually, if you took a second to relax and process my post, you'd realize I said the exact opposite. Simply pointed out that yours is one of hundreds of equally valid opinions on these boards that newcomers are welcome to weigh the value of when deciding on what to do with their prints.

How that was perceived as a slight is beyond me.

I will never understand why people assume people are all upset and up and arms because thier being honest. Believe me, I'm about as relaxed right now as I have been all week. And I didn't perceive a single thing you said as a slight. If anything, I was simply agreeing with what you were saying and explaining why its understandable why some people might get upset by my opinions. How you took these statements as me being up in arms is really quite puzzling.

Actually, I am well aware that my posts will probably upset a few people here..

..but that's not going to change my opinion and its not going to stop me from posting that opinion.

Again, thats just me being honest and open about the topic. I am aware that my posts will probably upset a few people who like those portfolios and as unfortunate as that is, its not going to stop me from continuing to express my opinion on such matters. Again, how you get that I am all up in arms by stating as such is a mystery to me.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by biglebowski9999

It was a bit more than a difference of opinion. Saying the portfolio looks cheap and ugly is an opinion...you'll notice to that I simply asked why that matters given the product's purpose. Saying the product doesn't age well and damages the art you put into is not an opinion but a BS claim that he tries to pass off as fact. I called him on it and he refuses to provide a shred of proof. My statement was not simple name-calling as I literally think he is full of ----.

But the irony is not lost on me of getting maturity lessons from a guy with your avatar. I mean, seriously?

I was planning to ignore all of your BS posts, mostly because its clear as day you have absolutely no experience whatsoever in the portfolio market, made abundantly clear by your ridiculous comments concerning portfolios not being long term/permanent storage solutions, but I just had to respond to this post as I just can't stand idle when people blatantly lie and accuse me of saying things I clearly never said. So with that being said, I would love for you to provide the post in which I stated that the Itoya Art profolio actually damages prints, lol. Of course, I could just save you the trouble as such a post simply doesn't exist. Its pure BS and a perfect example of someone twisting people words to try and discredit someone's opinion or statements. What I did say is that the milky pages in Itoya's Art Profolio line are easily some of the cheapest and lowest quality pages I have come across yet in the portfolio market.

Saying the portfolio looks cheap and ugly is an opinion...you'll notice to that I simply asked why that matters given the product's purpose.

Well, first off you clearly have some sort of reading disorder as I never said the portfolio was ugly. I said it looks cheap and feels cheap. Looking cheap and saying something is ugly are 2 completely different things. I think Bugatti's are ugly, yet anyone with more than 2 brain cells knows they are anything but cheap. Don't worry, I get it. Your one of those posters that just love twisting people's words and love putting words into other people mouths. People like you are a dime a dozen on various internet forums.

As for your point, on why it matters if it looks cheap and feels cheap, given the products purpose....well, thats an easy one. Clearly if my only 2 problems with Ioya's Art Profolio line were that they looked and felt cheap, then it wouldn't be that big of an issue and I would probably be far more inclined to use them, or at the very least far less inclined to dislike them or dissuade others from using them.

Of course, as I have made perfectly clear on multiple occasions, those 2 things are not the only problems I have with Itoya's Art Profolio line. In fact, of all the problems I have with Itoya's Art Profolio line, the look and feel of the portfolios are by FAR the least significant problems I have with the line. On top of looking cheap and feeling cheap, they also have some of the cheapest quality pages I have come across yet in the portfolio market. the overall clarity of those pages is awful and it severely degrades the overall appearance of the artwork you store in them. Not to mention they don't age well at all and wether or not you believe that fact is completely inconsequential as this isn't about wether or or not you believe me, it about the inaccuracy of your quoting my statements and your conveniently using only the parts of my posts that best suit your needs.

So since you were CLEARLY confused by my previous posts, for whatever reason, I will go ahead and state it again, in very plain and simple terms. I dislike Itoya's Art Profolio Line because of the following reasons:

1 - the hard polypropylene cover feels cheap, looks cheap and is uncomfortable to look through (at least compared to a nice padded leather/leatherette or cloth cover) and they don't age well at all. And please stop spreading the BS that my statement regarding the cover not aging well was somehow suggesting that the cover starts falling apart. that polypropylene cover will still be here 10,000 years from now. It has nothing to do with integrity and everything to do with appearance. Every nink, scuff, scratch etc becomes a permanent addition to the cover. Unless you treat it like gold, the cover starts looking like crap in as little as 3-4 years. Within 5-6 years, I would literally be embarrassed presenting such a portfolio to a client/potential client.

2 - the pages are some of the lowest quality pages I have come across yet in the portfolio/presentation case market and I have used/tested just about every portfolio that has come to market over the last 15 years and that includes companies like Itoya, Case Envy, Lost Luggage, Prat, Pina Zangaro, Cachet, Stein deZign, Picturesque Pro, Light Impressions, Mckinley American Leathercraft, Shrapnel Design, Impact Enterprises, and even handmade portfolios from companies like Nicole Anderson. Not to mention, my whole comment about not aging well was aimed FAR more at the pages than the actual cover, but it does still include the cover. the whole portfolio, through and though, is cheap and just doesn't age well at all.

Another reason why the look and feel of the portfolio matter is that people should take pride and enjoy looking through their print collections. If you look at all of the various reviews over the internet, in regards to Itoya's Profolio Proessional line, you will come across review after review that state what a pleasure it is looking through those portfolio's due to the comfort of the soft padded cover. Its no different with statues. You will find plenty of posts on this website where people invested in quality shelving units for thier statues and ultimately those investments that those people made in quality shelving actually added to the overall enjoyment those people get from viewing their statue collections in a quality shelving unit. Its no different with quality portfolios. Having a nice quality portfolio adds to the enjoyment of actually looking through that portfolio and enjoying the prints contained within. Sure, there may be various people out there who could give a rats a*s wether their prints are stored in a beautiful portfolio or zip lock bags, but most collectors actually care about such things.

the fact that you chose to pick and choose from the various reasons I gave and ultimately wound up picking the 2 least important problems I have with the Art Profolio line,...well, that in itself makes your objectives painfully obvious. Not to mention your claiming that I made statements that I never made at all. Its as clear as day to anyone who as any experience with the portfolio market that you couldn't tell the difference between a quality portfolio and hole in the ground, but its all good. Anyone who uses the internet on a regular basis knows full well that people like yourself are a dime a dozen on the internet and by people like yourself I'm referring to people that run around pretending to have far more knowledge and experience in particular topics/fields than they really have. to be perfectly honest, I would be shocked if you have ever purchased a portfolio that wasn't an Itoya Art Profolio, after all, according to your opinion, portfolios are just temporary storage for prints that are going to be framed, unless your talking about artists and in those cases the portfolios are only meant to transport art from one show to another, lol.

[OrangeCrush]

By the way, for the other members of this forum that actually have a serious interest in the topic of various storage solutions for prints, I am planning on doing a very thorough photo shoot that will clearly demonstrate the significant differences between the portfolio's in question. I will take pictures of Itoya's Art Profolio line, Itoya's Profolio Professional line, Prat's Start 3 and 4 line, and will even take some pictures of some alternate methods like Light impressions storage boxes and clam shell boxes and might even do a couple of my favorites, like Lost Luggage's Ice Nine portfolios, for people that collect prints smaller than 18x24, since they don't make the Ice Nine in larger sizes.

Since the pages are really the most important aspect of portfolios, I will start with the pages. I will backlight the empty pages, to show the overall clarity of just the polypropylene pages themselves. I will then take pictures with the same exact print in each of the different pages, so people can see for themselves the significant difference in visual quality that these different pages offer. If people have any specific requests, by all means shoot them my way and I would be more than happy to see what I can do.

And I do apologize to the members of the forum for this unfortunate back and forth between biglebowski9999 and myself. My main goal in these print threads has always been to help fellow print collectors by providing the best advice I can give and I apologize if I have offended any people in here that actively use and like the Itoya Art Profolio line of portfolios. I was simply being honest and open about my overall opinion of that line of portfolios. My intention was never to belittle or offend people that actively use those portfolios.

All in all I have been a professional photographer for roughly 18 years and have been a serious print collector for roughly 19-20 years. As I have stated before, I have used/tested just about every model portfolio that has come to market the last 15+ years. In fact, I just got done testing out the new 18x24 Premium Line by Prat. It had beautiful pages and a beautiful ring system, but I didn't care for the ribbed cover so I sent it back. Anyways, at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own subjective opinions and everyone is entitled to buy whatever portfolio they see fit to buy. In other words, what people choose to do with the information I provide on these forums is entirely up to them. At the end of the day, I am simply trying to help people make more informed decisions on the methods they use to store their prints.

Originally Posted by JstChilin

Thought this thread was about Sideshow prints, getting off topic arguing about what he said she said about likes and dislikes of portfolios apparently? Can we get back on topic of prints please?

It is a thread about sideshow prints, which means topics such a storage/framing of said prints is a perfectly viable topic for such a thread.

[Simplyrob]

[Underdog07]

I also like turtles