Aspen Print Thread

[Cyber-Lip]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I am definitely emailing Joe about the 11 x 17 size issue.

I'm sure he's been waiting for you to weigh in on the matter. He'll be happy to get that email.

[Glennfett]

Originally Posted by Cyber-Lip

I'm sure he's been waiting for you to weigh in on the matter. He'll be happy to get that email.

LOL-

Anyways,
What happened to talk of all the awesome prints and then pics of said prints?
Everyone collects for their own purpose...and i admire it when they put up pics...I DON'T admire BS...we are all in this together-from the smallest collector to the biggest collector-without us,Aspen will be no more.
Regardless of # size on prints or $$ of said prints,i could care less.I have loved Mike's art since the Witchblade days...and now Aspen's art too...the art is all that matters to me

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Adoptedscot

I do know people that do ONLY collect with a low edition size and judging by the posts you have made (below) you are in fact one of them, if not then why would you refuse to buy future prints with a run of over X amount. There's nothing wrong with that way of collecting (after all, collecting is subjective ), all I'm saying is that there are people that collect primarily that way. That's their choice, their collection and they can do as they please.

I know people that only collect very low edition sized prints as well. In fact, I know quite a few of them as I am sure other people do as well. The collectible markets are teeming with people today that are in it for the money. So what? I didn't say I didn't know anyone who collects in such a manner or that such people don't exist. I clearly stated that I haven't seen anyone on this forum state that they collect only for this reason, which is what you were asserting.

As for myself, I already explained that value plays a very small role in regards to my print collecting and when speaking specifically about Aspen/Michael Turner prints, it plays no role whatsoever. Value has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on my Aspen print purchases. I would never even contemplate selling my Aspen print collection, regardless of the money someone offered me for it. I will never sell it, period. I really cant put it into plainer terms.

I will openly admit that value plays a small role in some of the prints I buy. My Mondo print collection is a perfect example. But even in those rare cases, the value is FAR outweighed by other factors, most importantly the fact that I love the artwork. As of today, I have over 15 different collecting hobbies and out of all of those hobbies, only 2 really center around value and those are coins and precious metals. The rest of my hobbies, value plays an insignificant role. My precious metals are the only collection I ever plan on selling. I plan on passing the rest down to my family. So value really couldn't play a more insignificant role.

As for your question, why would I refuse to buy future prints with a run of over X amount? I clearly stated that rarity is one of the most important aspects in many of my hobbies and while value and rarity go hand in hand in many cases, they are still wholly separate. I am not drawn to rare items because they are valuable. I am drawn to rare items because they are RARE. Even the jeans I buy are signed and numbered, lol. In regards to the limited edition print market, rarity and proper edition size go hand in hand. Its really that simple. It has absolutely nothing to do with value, period.

So this ^ would suggest that rare/low ES items are a primary focus for you. I'm not questioning or criticising, just making a statement.

As I clearly stated in my first post, rarity is very important to me.

In addition you stated this earlier...

Yep, another post which has me stating how important rarity is. I think your getting the message.

So after saying you would buy no more Aspen Prints if this piece was a run of 500, which it turned out to be, you changed it to:

No, I said I wasn't going to buy this particular print if the edition size was 500 and now that I know for certain that it is 500, I can now say for certain that I am not buying it. I didn't say I was going to stop buying Aspen prints in general. If your referring to this statement:

"The day Aspen starts releasing prints in 500+ edition sizes is the day I stop collecting Aspen prints."

That says the day Aspen starts releasing prints with 500+ edition sizes, I will stop buying. It doesn't say the day Aspen releases a single print with an edition size of 500, I will stop buying. What I meant by this statement is that if Aspen starts releasing their prints (Plural, Prints) with edition sizes of 500+, I will stop collecting and yes, I stand by that statement. We have only seen a single print released that has an edition size of 500 and we don't even know if it was Aspen who released it. Personally I think it was Joe who released it and not Aspen. Besides, I hardly think a single print means that Aspen has retooled their entire approach to prints and are now planning on releasing all future prints with 500+ edition sizes. Of course, if that is the case then I will stop collecting, just as I stated. At this point, there is no reason that we should see edition sizes above 200 for Aspen prints and even 200 is pushing it. IMO, 100 is the optimal edition size for Aspen prints at this time.

Again the print run size is an influence on you. Yet again not criticising or anything, I'm just trying to explain my post and position that there are collectors who will only look for LE items that are rare/ valuable etc. More power to them if someone wants to collect that way and they are happy.

Yet again, I openly admit rarity is important to me. I have no clue what it has to do with your post or your position as again it has nothing to do with value.

Ultimately Aspen are a business just like Joe is the Professional Artist and like any other organisation/ artist they want to make a profit on their items and make their products available to as wider audience as possible.
They are no more 'money grabbers' than the next merchant in the Industry that increases production to accomodate for more sales.

All this statement shows is that you don't understand the limited edition print business. Sure, a larger print run, which winds up being too large an edition size for the market, could make the artist or company more money in the short term but in the long term they will actually lose money and customers. Its in the artists/companies best interest to release limited edition prints with a proper edition size. Aspen has played this card almost perfectly up to this point. That's why I have such a hard time believing the Saloon print came from Aspen.

If what your saying were true, then why did it take this long for Aspen to release an edition size of 500. If its in their best interest to sell more prints and make them available for as many people as possible then why is this happening almost 10 years after they started releasing prints? Why are most of their edition sizes around 50 or 100 and not 500 or 1000? Because they understand, better than most in this market, how important it is to have a proper edition size. The limited edition print market is not about making as much money as possible and its not about putting the print into as many hands as possible. If that were the case they would just make them open edition prints and continue selling them. Value plays a large role, whether you like to admit it or not, in the limited edition print market and nothing hurts value more than edition sizes that are way to big. One of the main reasons companies make something limited is to add value and increase demand.

As for the money grabbing, we can argue about it till the sun stops shining. In my book, this was without question money grabbing, regardless of who manufactured the print (Joe or Aspen). At this point, its just best to agree to disagree.

Damn I wish I knew how to do stuff like that, or that I was physically able to because they all look fantastic!. Nice work!.

The Soulfire print is my favourite of the ones you've posted.
That particular print has always been one of my favourites and it just looks awesome like that.....I wants it, lets swap....gimme gimme

Thank you! Matting artwork does make it look so much nicer. Its not nearly as hard as people think. All you need is a 50 dollar mat cutter, a ruler, a pencil, a piece of paper, some linen tape, some photo corners, and the mat board and artwork. If people knew how easy it really was, professional framers would go out of business. Its not cheap matting all of your artwork but the benefits far outweigh the cost. First its a great way of storing them. You put the matted prints in print bags and store them in archival print boxes. Not only does it make for a much nicer way of viewing your prints, they are also far more protected than prints stored in regular portfolios. My favorite aspect to matting all my artwork is that I can swap out pictures anytime I want. It only takes 30 seconds to undo the back of a framed print. You take the old print out and put the new print in and in roughly a minutes time you have a new print on the wall. I can literally change every last framed picture in my house in less than 30 minutes, which I do on a bi-monthly basis. Most people would be surprised just how different it can make a room look. It really breaths some fresh air into spaces you see on an every day basis. I read an article once on Bill Gates (don't remember the magazine) where he explained that one of his houses had nothing but these really hi tech screens up on the walls. He could literally change the artwork in the entire house by the press of a button. Now that would be cool!

Feelings aren't always an accurate reflection of reality and how people feel about their collectables affects the reality of whether or not they will buy it and/or enjoy it.

My point is, no need to call peeps silly, just cos they have a differing opinion, or collect in a different way.
Certain collecting habits admittedly I'll never understand, but that doesn't mean they are wrong or silly just because it's different to how I collect.

Again, each to their own.

Finally something we can agree on. Artwork and collecting are pretty much as subjective as topics can get. There is no right and wrong. Its like watching movies. Some people like particular movies and some people hate them. Some think this reviewer is right, others think that reviewer was right. Bottom line - neither of them were right and neither of them were wrong. Its subjective opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Right and wrong doesn't even come into play. For example, my wife loves Picasso. His work does absolutely nothing for me. I love Edvard Munch. My wife cant stand his work. Again, its all subjective opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Pushing subjective opinions on other people or thinking your subjective opinions are superior to other people's subjective opinions.....well, self righteous is a good term for such people. No need to name names.

[Adoptedscot]

Originally Posted by Viper2005

Yes, he does.. I am in Canada and he ships stuff to me all the time.
He is one of the best sellers on ebay for prints!

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Agreed!

Thanks peeps
I'm looking forward to working with the guy now.
I don't usually branch out from my regular Dealers but this guy seems to come highly recommended

Thanks again.
x

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Cyber-Lip

I bet they were glad to hear from you

Actually they were. I am actually on very friendly terms with a lot of workers at both the Aspen store and the main offices that do the eBay auctions. I have known many of them for a very long time and whether you believe it or not, they are always grateful for feedback, good or bad. They actually send out an email with every purchase from the Aspen store asking for feedback, lol. Its all good tho, the little shots that you feel you need to take say FAR more about you then they ever will about me.

Originally Posted by Cyber-Lip

I'm sure he's been waiting for you to weigh in on the matter. He'll be happy to get that email.

If you honestly think artists don't take feedback from fans seriously then....well, this just goes hand in hand with everything else you have posted. Its all BS. Sure, you might get a couple members to giggle here and there but in the end your posts are nothing more than immature rants. One has to wonder where all that vitriol comes from. Actually, I don't even want to know.

[Viper2005]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

As for the money grabbing, we can argue about it till the sun stops shining. In my book, this was without question money grabbing, regardless of who manufactured the print (Joe or Aspen). At this point, its just best to agree to disagree.

I'm thinking that it may not necessarily be money grabbing, since he sells them for very cheap at the cons. I think he is doing this as a way to get new people introduced to his prints for a cheap introductory price so to speak. So I don't think he is selling the saloon print as a collectors item (as evidenced by all that clutter on the bottom) but more of a sampler item...
As long as he does not do this regularly, I'm actually fine with it.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Bobfrog

I think that if you look back over your posts you sort of come across as a bit contradictory which is probably why people say what they do in response to your posts.

If something appears contradictory then its because people are either misunderstanding what I am saying or misquoting what I am saying altogether.

Case in point:

1) you state that no one mentions collecting based on edition size yet your post below IMO suggests that this is exactly what you are doing on this particular occassion with the saloon print

This is a perfect example of what I just said about misquoting or misunderstanding as this is not what I said. I said I haven't seen a single person on this forum state that they only collect prints for the edition size alone, which is what Adoptedscot was initially saying. I don't know how much clearer one can be in regards to a topic, I really dont. I have stated at least 8 times in the last 3 pages that rarity is extremely important to me. Its one of the most important things to me in regards to my collecting hobbies. In regards to the limited edition print market, proper edition size and rarity go hand in hand. So yes, I absolutely take edition size/rarity into account when I purchase prints. I have never stated otherwise. They are certainly not the only things I take into account, not even close. First and foremost is whether or not I even like the print.

2). I can't speak for others but your posts also sorta comes across as though you're the oracle of all things relating to print collecting. When you make such bold statements, particluarly in relation to something like this, which as you pointed out is subjective matter, you're sort of inviting people to make comments back questioning what you've written.

I have been collecting prints for well over 12+ years and I am a very serious collector. My wife and I had over 3500 prints when we had the fire and we used to go to auctions and estate sales on a weekly basis. I also worked at the Detroit Institute for Arts for 4 years, in the acquisition department which was heavily focused on limited edition works. On top of that, I have my Bachelors and Masters in Fine Art and many of my best friends are actual print makers and heavily involved in the market. So yes, I know a lot about the market. Art has basically been my life for the last 15+ years. If I come off as some sort of Guru then I apologize. That is certainly not my intention.

Case in point: you make statements as though they are fact when you've suggested to others that they should remember we're talking about subjective matters...

Your confusing where I was using the word subjective. The art and the reasons one collects, those are subjective and that is what I was referring to when using the word. My believing that making an edition size 2.5 times larger than we have ever seen before and 5 times larger than what is normal is money grabbing, based on the evidence that I listed before....well, that is not subjective. You may very well disagree with it but its not subjective in nature. Again, when I was talking about subjective, I was referring to the art itself and the reasons one collects.

3). Despite the above I still don't understand or agree with your reasoning. I asked you why it is money grabbing and you quote back a bunch of print run sizes....
So, therefore high print runs = money grabbing right? I guess the oxford dictionary needs to update their definitions.
I also never once inferred that I thought the market size had increased, just that you calling a company money grabbers makes no contextual sense. In a normal logical sense, yeah sure they are 'grabbing' money because if they sell more then they'll get more money coming in but the way you're stating it implies that they're doing something underhand / out of line.

Not sure why you don't understand and I honestly don't know how I could put it any plainer. You don't make significant increases to edition sizes without first seeing significant increases in demand. Bioware's Mass Effect prints are a perfect example. They raised the edition sizes from 300 to 500 as the demand was through the roof. They were selling out in a matter of minutes and the prices were skyrocketing. It was incredibly difficult to get a print. It wound up being the right move to make too as it had no negative effect on value and they were still selling out incredibly fast. If they don't sell out than the edition size is most likely too high. That's the general rule of thumb in the print market. If its a proper edition size, the prints should sell out in a timely manner.

Anyways, there hasn't been a shortage of Lady Mechanika prints. They have been readily available from online sellers. Even if there had been an increase in demand, you wouldn't raise the edition size from 100 to 500. You would raise it is small increments equal to the increase in demand. Even 100 to 200 is a drastic increase as its basically suggesting the size of the market has doubled. That's a significant increase. 100 to 200 to 500 in a couple weeks time. Sorry, but it doesn't take someone who is familiar with the print market to see that this had nothing to do with demand in the market.

As for the market size, I never said that you did say the market size had increased. And yes, the money grabbing comment does make sense. It makes perfect sense when you look at the numbers. Again, you may very well disagree but it as viable a reason as an other that has been mentioned. You somehow think that Aspen or Aspen's artists are above the call of money? That they are above doing such a thing? I saw a LOT of money grabbing by Aspen at this years SDCC and I have seen it more than a few times on eBay so believe me, these people are not above money grabbing every now and then. Lets just hope it stays every now and then and doesn't become a more regular occurrence.

With regards to print run sizes, perhaps they are trying to reach a new audience and have upped their prints runs. Just because it doesn't fit in with your collecting style i.e. only buying something that is rare doesn't make it underhand business. As Aspen gets more and more popular they're only ever going to increase runs with the odd exception so you'd best get used to being disappointed.

Sorry but I am not buying it. The print market is significantly smaller than the comic book market. If you were trying to expand the market for a particular title, you would do it with books, not prints. That's what the whole free comic day is about and its why they give out free books and not free prints.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my collecting style. In fact, it has nothing to do with me whatsoever. It has to do with the market period. Your right, the fact that it doesn't fit in my "style" of print collecting doesn't make it an underhanded move. I agree 100%. Like I said it has nothing to do with my style. What makes it an underhanded move is the fact that they are significantly increasing the edition size without there being a legitimate reason to do so. That's what makes it an underhanded move and that is what makes it money grabbing.

As Aspen gets more and more popular they're only ever going to increase runs? What does that have to do with anything. As Aspen gets more popular there will be a legitimate reason to increase edition sizes. Where did I say I only collect prints that have small edition sizes? I said I only collect limited edition prints that have PROPER edition sizes. I own all the Mass Effect prints and they have an edition size of 300-500. I have 30+ prints from Robert Bateman and some of those are 900+. Again this is a perfect example of what I said initially about misunderstanding and misquoting. I never said anything that would lead you to believe I would be against Aspen raising edition sizes if they legitimately needed to be raised. It has nothing to do with small edition sizes and EVERYTHING to do with proper edition sizes, which I have plainly stated on multiple occasions.

Maybe you should email them again and ask them to make all their print runs 20 or less then you'd get what you want and they'd go out of business.

Thank you for demonstrating yet again my first point. You have basically twisted and contorted pretty much every last thing you claim I have said, lol. Way to go!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Viper2005

I'm thinking that it may not necessarily be money grabbing, since he sells them for very cheap at the cons. I think he is doing this as a way to get new people introduced to his prints for a cheap introductory price so to speak. So I don't think he is selling the saloon print as a collectors item (as evidenced by all that clutter on the bottom) but more of a sampler item...
As long as he does not do this regularly, I'm actually fine with it.

First I appreciate your civil tone. That's seems to be a rare thing around here lately and it is appreciated.

The problem I have with that theory is that they all sell them cheap at the con's. That's the perk of going to the shows. Even the big artists like J Scott Campbell sells prints cheap at the show. Then you have the fact that they are, as usual, 40 on the Aspen store. If Aspen was also selling them for a discounted price I might be more inclined to agree with you.

I will definitely agree with you on one thing and that is if he doesn't do this regularly, I will have no problem with it. I still wont buy them but I wont have a problem with him doing it. I am starting to get a bit concerned because its starting to look like we are going to be getting larger and larger edition sizes. First it was 200 on the LM Outlaw print, then 250 on the Sepia print and now 500 on the Saloon print. Those are all way above normal. Oh well, I guess time will tell one way of the other.

[Adoptedscot]

Removed the drama to get the thread back on track.

Bye all, I'm out. All the best to everyone
x

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Adoptedscot

I was going to drop this so I edited my last post simply because it was not worth the bother but since I am personally mentioned in your reply, I will respond in kind.

You have mentioned a couple of times now that I said *the part in Bold*. Please point me to where I stated that someone on this forum specifically collects ONLY for print run numbers.

Post #1640, you wrote

"Exactly

I can understand that some peeps like a lower ES but to only collect for that reason, I've never been able to understand that.This is just my opinion of course.

There you have it, "to only collect for that reason". That's when I replied with the post stating that I have never seen anyone on this forum state that they collect only for that reason, which happens to be the misquoted post I was referring to in the post you just freaked out about. Its all about context. You take that quote out of context and it can get a bit grey on its meaning. You look at that quote in the context it was written in and...well, the meaning was pretty clear to me and you certainly didn't speak up suggesting that I was mistaken with its interpretation until now. As for the rest of your post, there is no point even replying to any of it. Its like a 12 year old throwing a fit. I couldn't even get more than halfway through it. Not to mention the fact that your replying to a post that want even meant for you, lol. That post was for BobFrog. The fact I mentioned your name once, in regards to a misquote Bobfrog had made, doesn't suddenly mean the entire post was secretly aimed at you. Get a grip.

God of collecting? Nope, not even close. Collecting junkie? Absolutely and without question, since the day I was first introduced to it. Rarely a year goes by where I don't find something new to collect. What can I say, its simply a part of who I am.