Is The Hobby Dying?

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by forps

OrangeCrush

You are probably the best regarding the hobby in this forum. But you are mistaken if you think that Sideshow could survive in the current market if it produced Bowen-style stuff. Sideshow would go under in 1 year at MOST.

All of you have not read my early post here where i explained the MAJOR change that happened in our hobby 6-7 years ago. This new breed of collectors hate - simply said- HATE something looking toooooooo toyish or goofy. If Sideshow produced a Thanos like the last Bowen-style from XM, it could sell at most 1000 pieces.This MODERN LOOKING, full of details, balanced between comic and movie-accurate Thanos is going to sell over 5000 pieces.

CASE CLOSED.

Adam West could not sell even as Lady Maria from Bloodborne, for gods sake. WAKE UP. I know at least 20 collectors who never even played a SINGLE VIDEO GAME in their life but po'ed Lady Maria DAY 1.

The market today wants

1) Big sculpts
2) Complicate sculpts
3) MODERN looking-sculpts and portraits
4) Realism
5) Paint schemes more complicate than ever


Check out the new Rambo from PCS vs the Cammy. Rambo will easily be a GRAIL whereas the new Cammy from PCS looks like a statue from the past, too goofy, too plain. It looks OUTDATED. It will sell (you know, a.s and females sell in this hobby) but in the aftermarket it will plummet. PCS 1/4 sales are bleeding

And OrangeCrush i have an Adam West po'ed but i will NEVER, NEVER exhibit him in my main man-cave. Sorry guys, it looks too goofy and outdated.

The current market with prices @ 600d or 700d or even 1000d is throwing the OLD collectors (the Bowen-maniacs or the collectors of 300d statues) out. The current market prices can be sustained only by the new breed of collectors. Successful businessmen with SOCIAL LIFE (we should stress this) who simply HATE the tooooooooo toyish vibe some "statues" have.

Nostalgia is good, but Sideshow would go bankrupt in 1 year if they listened to some guys here and not taken the "forps way"

Deathstroke was a DISASTER as well as Killer Croc (Killer Croc due to the puny height, Deathstroke is a plain, dull, OUTDATED statue). The new Thanos on throne is the way to go (the "forps way" or what the MARKET DESPERATELY WANTS).

Realism, big sculpts, plenty of details, modern scuplts, balance between comic accuracy and realism.

As far as the situation in the hobby goes, you should all read my FIRST post in this thread. I have said it all. Case closed.

10% ECC (the "elites"), 70+% of the market Sideshow + Prime1 and 20% at most for all the others ( XM, PCS, CC, EFX, HCG etc).

From the above companies, CC is in danger. The pool of dino-maniacs is going to dry soon, the quality isnt there, the QC of this company is poor.

XM should continue the Bowen-style and the ES around 500-600. It simply cant compete with Sideshow or Prime1 either talent-wise or financial-wise.

PCS should focus on Jerry's excellence when sculpting big muscular men. They should focus on his area of expertise. Their female sculpts are rather naive and plain looking (the king of female sculpts is Sideshow, no conversation here please), the MK license is simply dying, the SF license alone cant sustain PCS. Rambo or Akuma 1/3 is the way to go for Jerry and his team. Jerry and Martin Canale. The 2 best sculptors of male anatomy worldwide. PERIOD.

I never said anything about Bowens, or Bowens style statues. I was never into Bowens myself so I know very little about those statues and openly admit as much. What I was talking about was the opinions on this forum and how they represent a MUCH larger portion of the market than you are realizing. You were making comments that were basically downplaying the opinions on this forum and again when dealing with statistical analysis, 3% is actually a very nice sample size and you can use that information to infer quite a bit about the serious collectors out there that are not members of statueforum and there are a LOT of them out there. That was the main point I was making, that the opinions you see in this forum represent a much larger segement of the market than your realizing.

And again, I was seeing a lot of opinions tossed around that were basically being presented as facts, like what is or isn't acceptable in a "man cave". Those are all subjective opinions, nothing more and nothing less. Your entitled to your opinion on those matters, but you have to recognize that its just that, an opinion and someone else out there could have the exact opposite opinion. Neither would be right and neither would be wrong as there is no right or wrong when dealing with subjectivity. Each and every person in here is entitled to thier subjective opinions, but those opinions are not facts.

And I already expressed my opinion in regards to the main topic of this thread, that being "is the hobby dying". I disagree 100% with you on that topic, but again were both entitled to our opinions and thats all they are at this point, opinions. Again, I see nothing but growth in the high end market and expect that will continue for at least another 5+ years. As for the hobby in general being in danger of dying, I just don't see it.

Again, in order for a hobby to actually die you need to have a situation like we saw with Hummel Figurines, where the collectors for a particular market start aging, passing away, ceasing to collect, etc., and are not replaced by new collectors and I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that no sector of the super hero market is in any danger of this happening, at least not with this generation or the one thats about to proceed it. The kids today are super hero nuts!! I know as not only do I have a son, who will soon become a teenager, but I also have 2 nephews and 2 nieces and the younger generation are NUTS about super heroes. This market will have no problem replacing the people that are currently collecting.

Yes, eventually we will no doubt see the super hero craze start to slow down, but thats normal for all collecting markets. They all have ups and downs and companies will make proper adjustments with the movement of the market. You might even see a company or two go under, but the super hero market in general is one of the safest bets collecting wise one can make and that isn't going to change significantly for a very long time to come.

[OuttaSight]

If we can keep this conversation civil I will contribute.

Originally Posted by majestic1

I remember Jerry from PCS commenting on this topic a few months ago on here, he said he believes that this collectable bubble will burst.

Bubble has already burst. but its more of a big leak than a giant 'pop'

If you could see the behind the scenes sales figures i have access to...

Originally Posted by dao2

If the bubble bursts that doesn't mean it'll die, just lose a lot of steam. It didn't start out super strong. Will it mean no 5000 ES pieces? Maybe, but I don't think it will go away.

Exactly, its not going to 'die.' We are beginning the transition to the next stage of the hobby.

Similar to how things transitioned when Sideshow created the 1:4 PF format.

As far as Bowen vs Sideshow...

Randy is a God. He created this hobby.

But Sideshow pulled a Steve Jobs and re-created it sending it skyrocketing to a level no one could have foreseen, like Jobs did with the cell phone.

[Thegameman2011]

My son is a huge fan of DC, Marvel, and Star Wars. Right now at 15y he just collects blu-rays, prints, pops, and small statues because thats what he can afford. I am positive that once he becomes a responsible adult he will collect larger statues like me. Many of his friends also have smaller and less expensive statues because thats what is appropriate for their age and income. Even my wife, who never collected anything prior to meeting me is now invading my space with all her Wonder Woman crap. A couple of my neighbors started collecting SS stuff as well after seeing my collection. Many people don't even know this type of stuff exist. None of them are on this forum. I see no shortage of people collecting in the future.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by PopCultureShock

Exactly, its not going to 'die.' We are beginning the transition to the next stage of the hobby.

Similar to how things transitioned when Sideshow created the 1:4 PF format.

As far as Bowen vs Sideshow...

Randy is a God. He created this hobby.

But Sideshow pulled a Steve Jobs and re-created it sending it skyrocketing to a level no one could have foreseen, like Jobs did with the cell phone.

Any insight as to what the "next stage of the hobby" will look like? Fewer producers? Fewer licenses? More expensive across the board? Favored scales (that remain profitable)? Etc.

Thanks for sharing.

[majestic1]

Originally Posted by PopCultureShock

If we can keep this conversation civil I will contribute.



Bubble has already burst. but its more of a big leak than a giant 'pop'

If you could see the behind the scenes sales figures i have access to...

I'd love to see those figures.

I feel like the insane amount of licenses that Prime 1 have acquired and their projected plans aren't sustainable, I love their stuff though so I hope they maintain.

[Josh-a-tron]

Originally Posted by majestic1

I'd love to see those figures.

I feel like the insane amount of licenses that Prime 1 have acquired and their projected plans aren't sustainable, I love their stuff though so I hope they maintain.

Well they also have access to Certain licenses through a partnership. Which is mutually beneficial to both parties. I just don't know if I see the larger scale formats staying as the main focus as the prices rise. So companies might as well get them in while they can because as far as I see, more people are buying fewer statues in larger scales because price is becoming a determining factor.

[SONICobra]

Originally Posted by PopCultureShock

As far as Bowen vs Sideshow...

Randy is a God. He created this hobby.

But Sideshow pulled a Steve Jobs and re-created it sending it skyrocketing to a level no one could have foreseen, like Jobs did with the cell phone.

thats a very good analogy

as always your insight into the hobby and industry is appreciated

[OuttaSight]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

Any insight as to what the "next stage of the hobby" will look like? Fewer producers? Fewer licenses? More expensive across the board? Favored scales (that remain profitable)? Etc.

Thanks for sharing.

As we all know, collectors are getting priced out due to rising prices. The hottest characters are still selling well, but for the most part, the B and C level characters sales are falling.

So you will see the higher end ($450+) market shrink and focus on 'sure thing' characters and niche characters that have never had a good statue. Especially as a typical 1/4 statue hits the $500 price point, which is coming sooner than later.

You will see a greater focus on smaller/less expensive statues. You can already see several companies testing those waters, including Sideshow and PCS.

As to what scale becomes the hot one, I dont know. Lots of scales being experimented with right now.

Personally, I feel that companies are burning out Marvel by releasing so much so fast. Being on the inside I see how many collectors are buying these statues using credit card debt, and that cant last. They buy Statue A, display it for a couple months until Statue B ships, then they hope they can sell Statue A for a profit. Its like the USA Housing Bubble.

Sideshow gets a lot of flack but the truth is, I think Greg did it right. SS was in it for the long term, so they knew they had to pace themselves or risk over-extending their customer base and causing an implosion.

The newer companies are literally releasing as much as they can as fast as they can. That is never healthy for a market.

So I see the 1/4 and larger market continuing to shrink and the smaller market growing.

Keep in mind nothing is absolute and there will always be outliers. Take ECC for instance. Because of Steve's prominence and George's deep pockets and factory connections, I dont see them changing their business model.

[ZenLogikos]

Thanks for your thoughts and time, Jerry.

Intrigued and hopeful by "niche characters that have never had a good statue". PCS seems to hit that target more than most are willing/able, and for that, thank you. Interested in seeing that continue as long as possible. A lot of good Street Fighter candidates beginning with 'G'...

I know you're a collector, so you value collectibility too - Any thoughts on the factories (and edition sizes), as it relates to your above comments?

[OuttaSight]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

Any thoughts on the factories (and edition sizes), as it relates to your above comments?

Working at a polystone factory is considered very low end in China. Its dirty, toxic and very physically demanding work.

Every year another polystone factory closes and there arent more popping up to take their places. Its just not a business anyone wants to be in.

And if you are going to be in that business then the last thing you want to do is low runs on super complicated pieces. They would much rather be working for Disney and making 50000 pieces of a simple Donald Duck statue.

There are only a dozen or so factories that are capable of making the super high quality stuff left. Then an additional couple dozen more that can do the 'regular' high end stuff.

This means every year demand goes up but supply goes down. That means prices go up and up and up.