Could Juggernaut move Mjolnir?

[MrYac]

Originally Posted by galactus

Where did this happen?

Dr. Strange III #44 (August 1992)
"In an Infinity War crossover, Doctor Strange travels through the dimensional corridors with Galactus and other allies. One of many anomalies drew them into conflict with Cyttorak. Galactus' ally Nova is captured by the entity; he desires worship.

Juggernaut had been transported to Cyttorak's dimension and awoke to find Doctor Strange surrounded and nearly impaled by crimson crystals. Juggernaut uses his power to destroy the ever-growing crystals and saves Dr. Strange from certain death. Strange had summoned Juggernaut due to his ties to Cyttorak. Though low on actual power, Juggernaut promised to try to convince the entity to let them leave. Although, when Dr. Strange and Juggernaut stumble upon Cyttoraks' throneroom it is Strange who tries the diplomatic approach. Juggernaut has one thing on his mind at that point, and that is getting his hands on the ruby embedded in Cyttoraks' forehead. Just as Doctor Strange convinced Cyttorak to let them go, Juggernaut charged the entity, knocking him down and ripping the gemstone from his forehead in a blindingly fast attack. Thinking the ruby would give him unlimited power he decided to test it out by smashing Docs' skull in with it. What Juggernaut didn't realize was that the ruby was draining his power. Since the entity his power flows from was dying he was only enfeebling himself. Finally, with Cyttorak in his weakened state. Nova is able to escape from the crimson bands that were holding her prisoner and able to blast the ruby right out of Juggernauts hands. Strange then uses his magic to place the ruby back into the forehead of Cyttorak who instantly awakens and ensnares Juggernaut within the crimson bands. Convinced that letting the Juggernaut operate on Earth as well as Dr. Strange and Nova spreading his great name across the universe is enough (for now) to sate his need for adulation. His captives are released."

from wiki

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by Force of Nature

Good point MrYac!

I think that all of us have stood up against our 'makers' (parents), our bosses and/or the people we love and care for at one point in our life.
I meanm who has not rebelled against his parents in your teenage years?
Who never felt their boss was a comple whackjob even though it is that same boss who decides if you get a raise or a promotion?
Who never had a heated argument / fight with their brother/sister/best friend etc.?

The Juggernaut is the avatar of Cyttorak but that does not mean he has to obey Cyttorak in everything he does. Juggernaut is not a herald of Cyttorak nor is he Cyttorak's slave.
The fact that Juggernaut has stood up against Cyttorak shows IMHO that Cain still does his own thinking and still has a grasp on his humanity.
He is not a mindless behemoth of destruction but he is Cain Marko, a Juggernaut, an Exemplar who sometimes decides to do the right thing no matter if Cyttorak agrees with that or not.

Cain is hiw own man and not Cyttorak's pawn and that is IMHO not a sign of stupidity but something to be proud of.

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!

av·a·tar   
[av-uh-tahr, av-uh-tahr] Show IPA
–noun
1.
Hindu Mythology . the descent of a deity to the earth in an incarnate form or some manifest shape; the incarnation of a god.
2.
an embodiment or personification, as of a principle, attitude, or view of life.
3.
Computers . a graphical image that represents a person, as on the internet.

I'll go with the second definition and I think Cain is supposed to represent Cyttorak in every aspect of Cyttorak. You don't dis your benefactor otherwise your are a poor representative and very stupid. Cain is not his own man because he's nothing without Cyttorak and his power he is a nobody. Personally I see it as nothing to be proud of, it shows you are rebellious and ungrateful fool. If I were Cyttorak I'd find a more grateful avatar.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by galactus

Where did this happen?

Originally Posted by MrYac

Dr. Strange III #44 (August 1992)
"In an Infinity War crossover, Doctor Strange travels through the dimensional corridors with Galactus and other allies. One of many anomalies drew them into conflict with Cyttorak. Galactus' ally Nova is captured by the entity; he desires worship.

Juggernaut had been transported to Cyttorak's dimension and awoke to find Doctor Strange surrounded and nearly impaled by crimson crystals. Juggernaut uses his power to destroy the ever-growing crystals and saves Dr. Strange from certain death. Strange had summoned Juggernaut due to his ties to Cyttorak. Though low on actual power, Juggernaut promised to try to convince the entity to let them leave. Although, when Dr. Strange and Juggernaut stumble upon Cyttoraks' throneroom it is Strange who tries the diplomatic approach. Juggernaut has one thing on his mind at that point, and that is getting his hands on the ruby embedded in Cyttoraks' forehead. Just as Doctor Strange convinced Cyttorak to let them go, Juggernaut charged the entity, knocking him down and ripping the gemstone from his forehead in a blindingly fast attack. Thinking the ruby would give him unlimited power he decided to test it out by smashing Docs' skull in with it. What Juggernaut didn't realize was that the ruby was draining his power. Since the entity his power flows from was dying he was only enfeebling himself. Finally, with Cyttorak in his weakened state. Nova is able to escape from the crimson bands that were holding her prisoner and able to blast the ruby right out of Juggernauts hands. Strange then uses his magic to place the ruby back into the forehead of Cyttorak who instantly awakens and ensnares Juggernaut within the crimson bands. Convinced that letting the Juggernaut operate on Earth as well as Dr. Strange and Nova spreading his great name across the universe is enough (for now) to sate his need for adulation. His captives are released."

from wiki

Here are some pics of the encounter.

[Meteor Man]

Originally Posted by Makkari1

The Surfer paid for his defiance and stupidity by being smacked down hard and being trapped on earth for many years of course he did the save earth can't say the same for Cain. In Thor's case his Father can remove Mjolnir from Thor but Thor's strength is natural since he was born with it's his. Cain has nothing outside of what Cyttorak gave him so he really has more to loose.

Well, yeah...but he still got it from Daddy, right? Odin is Thor's benefactor too. Granted it's in a different way than the way Cyttorak is Cain's benefactor, but Thor is Odin's boy, and he is what he is, mainly because of who his Pops happens to be. There is no such thing as a self made man...

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by Meteor Man

Well, yeah...but he got it from Daddy, right? Odin was his benefactor too. Granted it's in a different way than the way Cyttorak is Cain's benefactor, but Thor is Odin's boy, and he's what he is, mainly because of who his Pops happens to be. There is no such thing as a self made man...

We all inherit the nature of our parents whether we/they want to or not. We are talking about what Cain receives outside of that since he clearly is not a child of Cyttorak. BTW half of Thor's nature comes from his mom as well.

[Force of Nature]

Hi Makkari1,

I do not think that Cain cannot be his own man since he got his powers from Cyttorak.
The fact that Cain dares to go against Cyttorak and dared to fight on the side of the angels for a time shows to me that he does his own thinking and follows his own agenda.
The way I see it you are your own man is you do that and IMHO in Juggy's case that shows character strength and courage.

You are right that Cyttorak will not always have been pleased by Cain's behaviour. Before Cain Marko a Korean man named Jin Taiko had been The Juggernaut for decades until his village begin worshipping a being other than Cyttorak. When that happened Cyttorak arranged for Jin's replacement.
What happened to Jin could theoretically happen to Cain as well.

Personally I am very curious to find out what Cyttorak feels about the fact that The Juggernaut is now claimed by somebody else as well and has become one of the Worthy.
Once the Fear Itself story arc is over I am curious to find out what will happen to Juggy and how he will proceed.

Just my two cents though!

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!

Originally Posted by Makkari1

av·a·tar   
[av-uh-tahr, av-uh-tahr] Show IPA
–noun
1.
Hindu Mythology . the descent of a deity to the earth in an incarnate form or some manifest shape; the incarnation of a god.
2.
an embodiment or personification, as of a principle, attitude, or view of life.
3.
Computers . a graphical image that represents a person, as on the internet.

I'll go with the second definition and I think Cain is supposed to represent Cyttorak in every aspect of Cyttorak. You don't dis your benefactor otherwise your are a poor representative and very stupid. Cain is not his own man because he's nothing without Cyttorak and his power he is a nobody. Personally I see it as nothing to be proud of, it shows you are rebellious and ungrateful fool. If I were Cyttorak I'd find a more grateful avatar.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by Force of Nature

Hi Makkari1,

I do not think that Cain cannot be his own man since he got his powers from Cyttorak.
The fact that Cain dares to go against Cyttorak and dared to fight on the side of the angels for a time shows to me that he does his own thinking and follows his own agenda.
The way I see it you are your own man is you do that and IMHO in Juggy's case that shows character strength and courage.

You are right that Cyttorak will not always have been pleased by Cain's behaviour. Before CAin MArko a Korean man named Jin Taiko had been The Juggernaut for decades until his village begin worshipping a being other than Cyttorak. When that happened Cyttorak arranged for Jin's replacement.
What happened to Jin could theoretically happen to Cain as well.

Personally I am very curious to find out what Cyttorak feels about the fact that The Juggernaut is now claimed by somebody else as well and has become one of the Worthy.
Once the Fear Itself story arc is however I am curious to find out what will happen to Juggy and how he will proceed.

Just my two cents though!

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!

I think Colossus is going to be Juggernaut's replacement for the time being. Cyttorak is very jealous and he will not tolerate another being like the Serpent to give Juggernaut any extra power.

[Force of Nature]

Hi Makkari1,

as Ben Grimm would say: that would truly be a revoltin' development!
On one hand I am hoping Cain will stay The Juggernaut for a long time to come (I am a fan of the big man) but on the other hand it would be very interesting to see Piotr turning into a 'steel' Juggernaut as well.
Woohah, that would truly be something!

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!

Originally Posted by Makkari1

I think Colossus is going to be Juggernaut's replacement for the time being. Cyttorak is very jealous and he will not tolerate another being like the Serpent to give Juggernaut any extra power.

[Makkari1]

Originally Posted by Force of Nature

Hi Makkari1,

as Ben Grimm would say: that would truly be a revoltin' development!
On one hand I am hoping Cain will stay The Juggernaut for a long time to come (I am a fan of the big man) but on the other hand it would be very interesting to see Piotr turning into a 'steel' Juggernaut as well.
Woohah, that would truly be something!

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!

Yes very curious indeed.

[Force of Nature]

Good news guys; we now have an official confirmation that Juggernaut is in the same class of strength as Thor!

This what Cyclops, the team leader of the Uncanny X-Men states in UXM #541 about The Juggernaut:

"He was originally empowered by the extradimensional entity Cyttorak as its avatar.
(....)
On a good day, he was a Thor-class threat by himself.
(....)
The Juggernaut is indestructible. Physically he is a powerhouse... but he is vulnerable to psychic attacks.
The helmet he wears gives him protection."

Wow, this is a clear cut und explicit acknowledgements of Juggernaut's unique abilities and enormous strength coming from a man (Scott Summers) who has no reason whatsoever to exaggerate Juggernaut's abilities.

Go Juggernaut, go, you have the strength comparable to Thor which makes you one of the strongest and most dangerous powerhitters in the MU!

Rainer

*************************************
Nothing can stop The Juggernaut... NOTHING!