Moore and these AP's

[candyrocket786]

Originally Posted by nexus

Why not a repaint like Soulfire?
Ultimately, I don't really care. it's just one statue and whether we have an original or an AP it won't make much of a difference. But I'm just saying that a repaint is the only way I might have any interest in it.

In the end... AIX AP statue will sell out immediately.

Both fans and flippers will make a mad rush for it.

It wouldn't surprise me that the same people b!tchin about this AIX issue will be the ones to flip it first.

[nexus]

Originally Posted by candyrocket786

In the end... AIX AP statue will sell out immediately.

Both fans and flippers will make a mad rush for it.

It wouldn't surprise me that the same people b!tchin about this AIX issue will be the ones to flip it first.

I'm sure there will be a lot of flippers going for this one. Oh well. I'll have to watch that one from the sidelines. It would be nice to see a different paint job though, because I would buy (hmmm, maybe I'll buy and have it or the original repainted).

Oh, and I deleted "money grab" from the earlier post because it seemed rather harsh. My apologies.

[Clayburn S Moore]

Originally Posted by Ish

only a diffrent base with more stuff on it.

this is done by every company in one way or another, and the zombies still go out and buy it. btw you forgot gold plated garabage.

An AP was originally begun when prints were done as lithographs-drawing done in grease pencil on stone, hence the name "litho" for stone and "graph" for writing. The AP was done as the artist printed the edition. It took several prints for the stone to properly take the ink and those first prints are Artist Proofs. Later, when paintings were done as prints, the first ones were taken off the presses for the artist to check and those were reserved for the artist as...yes, Artist's Proofs.
Artist Proofs in the comic book statue business are not really artist's proofs, they are second editions or variants. As I explained before, this is a business and we always had planned to do an Artist's Proof Edition of A IX. I work with top Cow and they expect me to earn them royalties. The edition will be done. As I have explained, we only did 1,400 of the original edition. I could do 1,100 more of that piece. I'm not doing that, but the AP edition will be produced at 350 units. It will have a new base and a certificate of authenticity. I do not want or expect those who bought the first to buy the second. If anyone thinks that 350 units will destroy the value of the first edition then this is a very, very small group of collectors and all of us sculptors should get new careers.

[Clayburn S Moore]

Originally Posted by wizard-comics

but it should, These are not true APs...which true APs used to be a collection in there own right.. I don't think your seeing the full ramifactions...I pick up a original Magadalena at $500.....then say it is re-released and called an AP or whatever crap they stick on it....Magdalena is then worth $300.00 or less...I can't beileve you wouldn't see anything wrong with that...and where does it stop? maybe in a few years another casting is put out again...dropping the price more...

I'm just using the Magdalena as an example, I know that the one coming out will be different than the original. I'm talking about the re-release of statues. This would have a HUGE impact on the industry if we, as the consumers, let this fly.

a bunch of people rally Bowen to re-release his orignial Marvel MB because the first ones cost to much...what then happens to your investment?

Re-Sculpts/Re-paints are great and should be released (although I'm not the biggest fan of a later released re-paint..borderline BS to me)....and it helps bring more peeps into this high dollar hobby.....and by doing that you keep the value of what came before up and on the rise....but to release the same thing, and slap the term AP on it is some BS

I don't know or care what other comapnies will do, but I will do an AP or second or variant edition and in most cases that is all, unless I do a special edition with this site. As Danny can tell you, I have already expressed reservations about any more than a regular edition and an AP, which in most cases would be a partly re-sculpted. Maybe not in every case, but I will make that determination when the time comes. If you are so concerned with this and you think that every person producing these statues is a money grubbing scum, then I suggest you rethink of what hobby to partake in.

[Clayburn S Moore]

Originally Posted by Daredevil

In the end, buy what you like and don't worry about the prices. Nothing stays up in p rice, with the exception of Chrome SS.

Thank you, Daredevil. I say this again and again. Buy what you like. Don't try to be a completist. Speculation has no place in this business or in art, but it is going to happen. Anyone who buys to speculate is making a mistake. If you buy a piece becuase you like it and it goes up in value, then that is very nice.

[Clayburn S Moore]

Originally Posted by comicbkguy

A few notes about this, and please try and understand I am trying to enlighten instead of starting fights here, please don't take offense:

1. As it is has been pointed out, this A.P. on AIX has been in the works from the beginning. Due to problems with the old company it was delayed. This is being done to fulfill an obligation with the licensor who we have very good relations with and are continuing to do other pieces with.

2. As far as resculpting a new AIX, that is very unrealistic. I don't even believe the book is being published anymore. We have always taken into account a property's status when considering production. Take for example the X-Files figures. Now I don't want to get into the entire odyssey that discussing those entails, but essentially it amounts to when the show was cancelled we stopped working on the figures. There is alot more to that story, but that is what it boils down to. Now to anyone who would say "then why produce an A.P. now?" I would say that is a legitimate question. But in answer I would say see point #1 above.

3. It is important to know that we aren't going to make a mint on 350 pieces. This isn't being done just to grab a few extra bucks. The truth is this, and it isn't a widely known fact, very rarely does a sold-out piece equal a piece that has completed its production run. Maybe I shouldn't be telling you guys this, but I want everyone to come to terms with what is happening here. I can count the number of pieces that have actually completed their run and had the molds destroyed on one hand. I don't know how things are done at other companies, but I would guess they would be similar. We only have x number of pieces produced and then if they sell out we evaluate the current demand before deciding to produce more, which we almost never do even when we could sell several hundred more pieces. If we really wanted to make a ton of money on AIX we would just run another 800 or so, we could do that and still be within the defined production run. The reason we don't do that is that Clay has always told me that he takes providing some protection to the secondary market very seriously. He has always tried to balance running a business with keeping his collectors happy. And generally you guys are pretty happy with him so I will let things stand at that.

4. It is true that technically what we are producing isn't an A.P. We have always known this. But to argue that our terminology is dangerous to the secondary market in some way is a bit strange. If anything I would think that producing them in a separate numbered set helps protect the value of the original run to some degree at least. Floating another 350 in the original numbered run could only devalue the original. And as far as setting some kind of destructive trend I would also disagree with this. The concept of the A.P. is most often found in fine art lithographs, and I doubt very seroiusly that these people are taking a cue from us. I would doubt that they would change what they do anytime soon. Certainly our terminology has been bastardized a bit, but to argue against the A.P. for this reason is definitely splitting hairs. And we do insist on a higher quality paint job and inspect A.P. very closely for defects and problems which is basically the same spirit as an A.P. of a litho.

5. The secondary market is always in flux, as has been been stated previously. And while I understand your concerns and can see why you would be upset please try and understand that what we have done is try to keep all parties happy here. We didn't elect to go with the "nuclear option" of running a large quantity, though I am fairly certain that we could have sold all or most of them. We are releasing enough to fulfill our obligations, but a small enough number so that it will hopefully not drive down the price of the original by a dramatic amount. I think the 350 of these that will be done will be devoured rather quickly and you will still see people trying very hard to get either version a year after the A.P. release. And selling your current piece to buy an A.P. is understandable, but not without risks. I would only do it if you are 100% certain that you have a reliable source for the A.P. It will probably be allocated pretty heavily at only 350 pieces.

So in conclusion to Bullseye and others like him, I watch these boards way more than I should. I have seen that you are unhappy with the decision and Clay knows it. We do take what you guys say into account when we make our decisions. So message received, and I hope you understand our position a bit better now.

Oh one other thing. I usually don't use a lot of first person when talking about C S Moore Studios. I am only a freelancer for them after all. But so much of this goes back to the old Moore Creations days that I did use alot of we and our in this post. Just wanted to let everyone know why.

As usual, Michael has explained this very well and very eloquently. Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful response.

[heykool69]

Very well summarized.
That's why i buy what i like without breaking my bank account. I was never able to get an AIX by the price they're going for on Ebay. So hopefully i can purchase the AP version, eventhough i still like the original. And if i happen to be that #351, then i'll move on to other statue i like.

[SARPEDON]

you can never go wrong when you buy something you like. i am not a completist and am a very picky fellow when it comes to purchasing a statue
it allows me to sleep better at night.

[risingstar]

So when can the AIX and Magdalena be ordered?

[Tetragrammaton]

This is more of a question for D Rod or a Mod in the know, but I am assuming, hoping really, that the Magdalena and Aphrodite IX APs are part of the Moore Statue Club items?

As long as C. Moore keeps making great statues, I'll keep buying regardless of edition sizes, speculation, and what we call them.