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Old 02-26-2014, 02:59 PM   #61
risingstar
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I like the cosmic stuff in shorter smaller spurts. This particular cow was milked so hard, Marvel should be up charges for cruelty to animals.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #62
Iacon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon_knight1971 View Post
When Wolverine lost his edge. Don't know the specific issue this started happening but I'm pretty sure it was righht around the time the 1st X-MEN movie was released. The Wolverine I remember was mysterious, ruthless but not needlessly violent person with a samurai type code of honor who happened to be Canadian and wear a cowboy hat. Now he's running a school, is on every flagship team book and his core values have become much more mainstream imo. It's like he used to be on the outter edge of society but now he's right in the middle of it. Not sure if that makes any sense but he's definitely lost his edge.
First I agree. Second thanks for acknowledging his Canadian roots. I had a conversation with one American store owner who insisted he is not Canadian not because he did not know it but because it bugged him that a popular character was Canadian. Sadly I don't know what happened to Wolverine but he has lost his edge. I am almost at a point where I don't buy comics anymore and just focus on cartoons and statues. I found after reading this thread I got a little depressed. I own half the books these books.

For my thoughts on betrayal...not sure if it is betrayal but it was stupid. Sentry was a waste of time. Did marvel really need a Superman with psychological issues? There is no point in me saying anything as I cannot compete with all the sites that explain all the aspects of this character that made himself so terrible.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:42 AM   #63
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It's ironic that the very movie franchises that we all dreamed of for so long--awesome as they are--have become part of the downfall of the medium. DC and Marvel are at this point playing for the TV and movie screens; the books are serving as marketing materials for the films and TV series.

On the bright side, that means that the characters will endure, and maybe that's the most important thing in the long run. But to see the books themselves become almost immaterial? Makes me sad, still.

I guess we'll always have the 60s/70s/80s!
The biggest joke for me is whenever a friend or colleague sees a picture of Batman in a comic (we're referring to classic Batman btw) and says, "Isn't his costume supposed to be black?"

The X-Men and Avengers will be treated pretty much the same way now. WTF.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:05 AM   #64
greenjeans1978
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Oh, man, where do I start?

- when Batman went from being a good and noble man to being a nasty, hateful, blatant self-insertion figure starting with Dark Knight Returns and Year One. The mean-spirited treatment of his closest allies (Dick Grayson especially), his unwarranted mistrust/borderline hatred of his superhero peers, his insistence on plotting against said peers instead of plotting against his actual enemies, the way every high-profile woman in the DCU in one medium or another became notches on his bedpost...he went from being a character I liked to an absolute mockery of everything he once was. (And don't get me started on Hooker Catwoman. seriously.)

- when DC decided instead of honoring its original agreement with Lois & Clark to time Lois and Superman's marriage together, it would be a better idea to give Lois a scummy ex-boyfriend (Jeb Friedman) as a rebound romance right after Superman was presumed dead, heavily imply Lois and Jeb were hooking up even after Clark came back (and then-artist Ron Frenz confirmed this was the case when I met him at a con some years back), have Lois dump Clark and hold him accountable in some stories for Jeb's death, and then complain up a storm when WB smacked them down and made them hold to the original agreement.

- And then, after WB made DC honor the original agreement to marry them off in tandem, DC went out of their way to write Lois as emotionally abusive and unaccepting of Clark's life as Superman, having her walk out on him for stupid reasons (even under the guise of wanting family time with her mother), accusing him of cheating on her with the women in the JLA based on no evidence whatsoever, and being so crazy that there was zero difference between the real her and when the Parasite impersonated her briefly. And all the while DC complained about how inherently ruinous the marriage was and how much better backtracking to the Love Triangle would be, and insisting that Lois' obnoxious behavior was merely a show of what a strong, positive female role model she was.

- Spider-Man, after Aunt May tells him point-blank she's ready to die and begs him to let her go and have a good life with Mary Jane, emotionally blackmails MJ into accepting a deal with the devil to erase their marriage from existence and force Aunt May because he doesn't want to take responsibility for his mistakes (and flat-out admits it!).

- the nonstop insistence of the major publishers on clinging to the worst mistakes and excesses of the late '80s/1990s, right down to event-gimmick nonsense, character derailments, and convoluted continuity that's too impenetrable even for longtime readers.

- reboots that SHOULD mark new beginnings and get rid of the garbage that preceded them, but ultimately just feel like the same-old same old in different clothes (the DC-Nu comes to mind).

So much went wrong beginning with the Iron Age, so much damage was done over the last 28 years out of either pure arrogance or pure stupidity, and nobody in the industry seems to care or even want to try and fix it. We have heroes acting either unheroic or being just plain dunces. We have abusive relationships and/or total lacks of commitment being held up as gold standards while romances that DO and SHOULD work being ruined for no good reason (Green Arrow and Black Canary, Spider-Man and Mary Jane) or being set up for failure from the off (Superman and Wonder Woman are headed down this road). We have recycled '90s garbage being endlessly peddled because the writers are too cowardly to let it go and move on. Do I like many of the artists to come out of comics in the past 28 years? Absolutely. But the stories they had to draw were not worthy of them by a long shot, and I don't think many of the current artists are getting worthwhile material either.

I felt betrayed by comics multiple time over the last 2+ decades. For me, walking away and sticking to art collecting was the best decision I ever made. And if comics won't grow up and stop trying to suck on purpose, then they deserve to go under. It's really that simple.
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:32 PM   #65
Quicksilver
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we'll i'd say pretty much anything made after 1994 lol

but the main ones that really turned me off:

1) astonishing X-men ruined Xmen for me forever
2) the new 52, complete fiasco and slap in the face
3) new avengers
4) movie-verse starting to affect comic world too much, should be the other way around
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:26 PM   #66
Luminous
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Can't say I've ever felt "betrayed" by comics. So....
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:20 PM   #67
Dark-Flux
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Ive never felt "betrayed" because im not owed anything.
If i dislike a stories direction i drop the book and read something else.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:16 PM   #68
Teague
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If you guys read the first post, and not just the title, you might have more to add than just a semantic argument.

Seriously, I'm more and more disenchanted with the way the industry is going. There was a time when I thought I'd always buy new comics. Now, I'm deciding what last few comic series I'm willing to still buy, even though there is no continuity left.

Granted, this is only for the big two companies, and indies and new stuff is still out there. But for me, comics have always been about Marvel and DC, and the comics I still love are at this point obsolete. Today's Spiderman books, for example, just have absolutely nothing to do with what happened in ASM books of old.

Continuity built this medium; I'm afraid that it's the abandoning of continuity that will tear it down.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:09 PM   #69
Luminous
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I did read your first post. I simply don't feel like comics owe me anything. If a story fails to keep my interest then I move on to the next. If certain comic book companies are going through a tough time creatively then I wait it out.

While I understand the concern about continuity on some level, it just isn't as important to me as good visual and interesting story telling. I don't look at the past and treat as gospel. Those creative teams had their time. I am more concerned with how the characters are being treated in the here and now. I am sure there is a changing point I will not be able to tolerate, but it seems comics have come nowhere near crossing that line for me yet.
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:14 PM   #70
ALEX23
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When I was reading an issue of ASM and saw this page!

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